Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Direach Sep 05, 2014 12:48:17	Math wizards and optimalchemists, lend me your talents. Consider if you will the following hypothetical weapon, the longspear:   Martial weapon 30gp 1d10 piercing Finesse Heavy (not based on weight, but length, as far as it being unwieldy for Small characters) Reach Two-handed My questions are: is this a game-breaker? If so, why, and in what ways? If not, does it seem like a balanced addition to the suite of weapons available?   Thank you in advance for any input you provide.
#2 Shado Sep 05, 2014 13:05:20	Direach wrote:
#3 Timborama Sep 05, 2014 13:27:11	Yeah, at the very LEAST it should start at a d8. If that's "too low" maybe 2d4.   But I personally don't even wanna get in the realm of any Heavy Finesse weapon. Much less one with reach...
#4 Proletheus Sep 05, 2014 13:34:17	A rogue's wet dream and by far the best possible pact weapon for the warlock. Imo it's overpowered and gives these classes options they were not meant to have.
#5 Captain_Kobold Sep 05, 2014 14:06:50	You might want to consider making it a simple weapon, although I'm not sure whether having a simple reach weapon would break anything. I'd suggest dropping the damage a bit as well.    To be frank, it looks more like an attempt to avoid having to invest in Strength when min/maxing a pike-user. The only difference between it and a pike is adding the Finesse property for no discernable reason. Thats rather hard to justify considering the shorter and lighter Spear is not finesse.
#6 Direach Sep 05, 2014 14:26:25	Well, it's more of an exercise in possibility than something I am hellbent on doing. Originally I was musing on weapons that could be an option for a Dex-based barbarian, but the responses so far tend to point at the apparently inevitable conclusion: Barbarians are meant to be Str-based, just like Rogues are meant to be Dex-based. Also, it shows there really can't be a finesse weapon that favourably compares to greatsword, or it will automatically become the best weapon choice for virtually anyone.
#7 Seraphex Sep 05, 2014 14:51:57	Heavy and Finesse are pretty mutually exclusive. In fact, you just made the first finesse two-handed weapon. A two-handed reach weapon should pretty much not have finesse unless it's something related to chain or other flexible materials. A 10~ foot stick is simply too unwieldy for the average person to finesse with.   All other things aside, the finesse needs to go.
#8 OrwellianHaggis Sep 05, 2014 14:52:47	I'm in favour of giving a long spear a minimum reach, and I think it'd have to be heavy and non finesse for my table.
#9 Captain_Kobold Sep 05, 2014 15:36:29	Direach wrote:
#10 woif Sep 05, 2014 17:50:51	I think the real unbalancing factor here is allowing a two handed weapon to be finesse. Now your rogue takes a 1 level dip in fighter, picks up great weapon fighting, now he gets to reroll his low sneak attack damage dice. I'm not a math wizard, but I'm guessing that's going to be a little too powerful. If you really want a longspear I would just take a pike or a lance and reflavor it.
#11 DM_HEEGZ Sep 05, 2014 23:33:41	The version I've been considering is a long spear/war spear that loses thrown ability and gains reach. This makes it a one handed reach weapon, permitting use of a shield. The tradeoff is that it gets moved to martial, and keeps the lower damage of 1d6, versatile (1d8).   You could bump the damage to 1d8, versatile (1d10) which brings it in line with halberds, but pretty much makes the halberd obsolete since the spear is now more useful. However, the part I haven't figured out is whether I would want it to be heavy or not, and whether to make it compatible with the polearm or GWF feats. That, plus none of my players have expressed interest in a longspear, so its not pressing for me at the moment.
#12 Direach Sep 05, 2014 23:38:06	There is a much better thread on the challenges presented by two-handed finesse weapons in the General thread, I wish I'd seen it before I created this one. Thanks for all the input though!