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| #1zagora_01May 08, 2015 10:58:00 |
Introduction Hello, I love playing fighter/mages. I enjoy the versatility of the builds, and I just think they are cool. I don't see too many guides on how to do this, so I thought I'd give it a shot. This is my first guide, so please take that into account. I have been playing DnD since 1st edition and have been playing fighter/mages since then as well, so I'm very familiar with the build concept. When I create a fighter/mage, I usually try to re-create the 2nd edition Bladesinger; however, I realize there are other ways to do this too, so I'm going to try and address those as well.
Here it goes
Why make a melee/caster?
Ask yourself why you want to make a character of this type. Your answer will dictate the choices you make when building your character. There are usually one of three reasons to build a character of this type. For me, it is the versatility of the build and the coolness of casting and sword swinging that brings my love to these builds. This guide assumes you are building a character that wants to be in melee at least some of the time. Better Offense - In My opinion offense is all about damage output. Magic opens up your arsenal to many ranged and area effect spells. When you are on the front line, spells like burning hands, Thunderwave, and Flaming Sphere, are great for increasing your damage output. When faced with flying or opponents that are far away, spells like Magic Missile, Ice knife and Scorching Ray allow for strength based fighters to do something other than throw a javelin. Better Defense - When I think of defense, I think of the old 4e role of defender. Your are there to be able to stay on the front line. These builds use magic to augment their defender abilities. Spells like Shield, Blur and Mirror Image do wonders for improving your defensive capabilities. Especially if you are already wearing heavy armor and using a shield. Versatility - Its nice to have options when melee is not available, or to be able to fire off a ritual when the party needs information. Melee/Caster combinations can be verify versatile and useful outside of combat, but they tend to sacrifice the optimization of offense or defense in order to be able to do that.
What are you willing to give up? Sacrifice is the name of the game here. What are you willing to give up to achieve your goal as a melee/caster? Whenever you multi-class you will be giving up high level options. Know the answer to this question before you plan your build Feats or Stat Boosts- Depending on the build, you may be giving up a feat or an ability boost or two. Decide what feats are important for the build. These will be discussed later in the guide. Class Abilities - Decide what class abilities are essential to your goal, and which ones you can do without. Hit Points - Most melee/caster combinations will have less HPs than a full melee class. How does that affect your build.
How far do you want to go caster?
Decide how far you want to go into the spell casting class. Are you taking levels in the melee class only for small benefits and plan on being mostly a caster, or are you doing the opposite and taking only a few levels of caster to augment your melee class. Mostly Caster - With these builds you should really decide if this is the way you want to go. You will be a few levels behind other casters in terms of what kind of spells you can cast. After 17th level that won’t matter, but it is a long road to 17th level. You may be more durable than other casters, but you won’t be that effective in melee combat. It might be better to remain a full caster. Mostly Melee - This build is essentially the Eldritch Knight. A fighter with a few levels of Warlock fits this build as well. Both these builds are very good melee characters, but they are not very versatile. Balanced - These are my favorite builds. You want to at least have two melee attacks and level 5 spells for these builds. They are very versatile as well as being effective in melee. The trick is stacking the levels of the two classes in such a way that you get the best of both classes.
Caster Classes Covered
What kind of spells are you going for? This guide is only covering the arcane classes. I’ll be going over gish builds involving the following arcane classes
I’ll be using the standard rating system - Remember that if some of my ratings don’t match some of the other guides, it is because I am basing my ratings on its usefulness to the melee/caster builds.
Red - Pick it for flavor Purple - I won’t be using this color. Black - This is an ok choice Blue - Good choice. Recommended options, you’re almost always better off with these choices. Sky Blue - Pick me! Best options for most builds and games. Gold - Mandatory for the option it is presented in.
Rules regarding open carry and casting spells
Heavy Weapons - Removing your hand to cast a spell is allowed.
Link to ruling - http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/30/2-weapon-casting/. This is not really official, but Jeremy Crofford said he would allow it.
Letting go of a Weapon can be done without using an action - Normally interacting with an object is a free action and can only be done on your turn. Jeremy Crawford stated that he would allow someone to let go of an item without using an action. This would allow you to remove your hand from a heavy weapon or drop a held weapon and cast a spell as a reaction.
Link to ruling - http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/19/interaction-or-free-action-with-object/
Carrying a focus and a weapon while casting spells with somatic and material components - if you have a weapon in one hand and a focus in the other, you can cast spells with somatic and material components but not spells with only somatic components. Link to ruling - http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/11/26/holy-symbol-replace-somatic-components/
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| #2zagora_01May 11, 2015 11:16:38 | Attributes/Races
Races - I won’t be covering races in this guide. I feel that that is a personal choice. Once you know what abilities are important to the build, you’ll know what race you want.
Abilities
When it comes to choosing abilities, there may not be a mandatory ability. Your build can focus on casting spells, swinging a weapon or a combination of the two. Melee/caster builds are very MAD in nature, so there will be few recommendations for abilities to be rated gold. Please note that all the ratings assume you will be in melee combat. This guide is not for builds focusing on ranged combat.
Red - Dump Stat
Purple - I won’t be using this color. Black - You should have at least a +1 bonus in this ability Dark Blue - You can start off with a +1, but you should have a +2 by Tier 3 Sky Blue - You can start off with a +2, but you should have a +3 by Tier 3 Gold - Start off with at least a +2, and try for a +5 by Tier 4
Offense Offense - You’re focusing on damage output
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| #3zagora_01May 14, 2015 10:33:38 |
Fighting Style
Choose what fighting style you want to use. The fighting style you choose goes a long way towards dictating what feats you are going to select. it also helps you choose what melee class you want.
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| #4zagora_01May 29, 2015 23:33:31 | Choosing your melee Class Choosing your melee class is important. Each class has its own set of benefits that can offer a totally different type of play style.
Barbarian - The barbarian appears to be a powerful option; however, you can’t cast spells or maintain concentration while raging, so it doesn't multiclass well with casters Show
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| #5zagora_01May 11, 2015 11:32:01 | Choosing your melee Class (Con't)
Monk - Monks are a Wisdom based melee class. None of the arcane casters use wisdom, so right off the bat you are dealing MAD ability scores. I’m not going to cover any of the abilities above level 11 because you might as well go full Monk if you are investing that much into the class. Saving Throw Proficiencies - You get proficiency with Strength and Dexterity saves. These are only slightly better than the Paladin’s saves because of Dexterity Unarmored Defense - In order for this ability to be good, your need to invest into Wisdom. You probably can’t afford that as you will need Charisma or Intelligence for your spellcasting,. Martial Arts - You get a bonus action unarmed strike. This isn’t that bad as you get your modifier added to the damage. Ki - You can Disengage, Dodge, Dash or get an extra attack as a bonus action. This is pretty good. Unarmored Movement - Extra movement is nice. Deflect Missiles - This ability uses your reaction which you will want for Shield or Counterspell. Monastic Tradition - I won’t go into the specifics of the traditions, but I will rate them. Way of the Open Hand - You get some extra perks with your Martial Arts and free healing at level 6. Way of Shadow - You get Darkvision, Darkness, Silence and Pass Without Trace using Ki points. At 6th level you get to teleport through shadows. Way of the Four Elements - You get some potent spell-like abilities that make heavy use of Ki points. Many of them require Wisdom for the save DC, and you shouldn’t be taking enough levels in Monk to be able to use the spell-like abilities that often. Extra Attack - For almost all builds this ability is critical. For mostly caster builds I rate this Dark Blue Stunning Strike - This seems like a great ability, and for strait Monks or Wisdom based casters it is; however, it requires too much investment into Wisdom which should be a dump stat for you. Ki Empowered Strikes - Your unarmed attacks are magical. Evasion - Awesome ability Stillness of the Mind - Very situational Purity of the Body - Immunity to disease and poison. This is decent, but at 10th level it is too costly. |
| #6zagora_01May 14, 2015 9:53:03 | Choose your caster class
Below I’ve listed the four caster classes and what they have to offer the melee/caster play style
Bard Bards are a very versatile class. Valor Bards are actually melee/casters all by themselves. Show
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| #7zagora_01May 14, 2015 13:27:56 |
Build Synergy Here is a list of some warrior caster combinations along with the pros and cons. This section does not use color coding.
Fighter (Eldritch Knight)/Wizard (Abjurer)- F1/W2-6/F7-12/W13-20 How the build works This build augments its attacks with a spells like Flaming Sphere or Melf’s Minute Meteors that have a bonus action attack. Using spells like these helps you keep up with the Fighter’s increased extra attacks per round. You will most likely will still be a little behind the fighter, but you have a lot more options than a strait fighter does. If you have to, you can switch to defense and cast spells like Mirror Image and Blur combined. You can get out of the front line quickly with Misty Step after attacking, or you can help out with the long rest by casting Leomund’s Tiny Hut. Recommended Starting Abilities and Feats taken. Offense - Great Weapon Master (lvl 5), Heavy Armor Master (lvl 9) (If your strength is not 16), Toughness (lvl 11), Elemental Adept (lvl 15), +2 Intelligence (lvl 19) Ability scores (before racial bonuses) - Str 15, Con 14, Int 15 Defense - Toughness (lvl 5), Heavy Armor Master (lvl 9) (if your Strength is not 16), War Caster (lvl 11), +2 Intelligence (lvl 15), +2 Intelligence (lvl 19) Ability scores (before racial bonuses) - Str or Dex 13, Con 14, Int 15 Versatile - Your Choice. Ability scores (before racial bonuses) - Str or Dex at Least 14, Con 14, Int 15 Pros Increased Spellcasting - You increase spellcasting at a ⅓ progression of your Fighter levels. More Cantrips - You get extra Wizard Cantrips. Those are always useful. Heavy Armor Proficiency - You get the best armor in the game provided you start off with Fighter. Constitution Save Proficiency - You get proficiency with Constitution Saves making it that much harder for you to lose concentration, and possibly taking away the need for the War Caster feat. Extremely Versatile - In my opinion this is one of the most versatile builds in the game. You can cast Rituals, area spells, range spells, buff spells, debuff spells, and you can jump into melee when you need to. Second Wind - Even if it is limited to level 1 in power, it is still useful. Fighting Style - You get to take a fighting style. Defense, Great Weapon Fighting or Duelist are my first choices. Fighter HP - You will need to take the Toughness Feat for this perk. Temporary HPs - You get the Arcane Ward class feature which helps out with the fact that your HP will be low at the lower levels. Multiple attacks at Level 4 (sort of) - You get to attack and use your bonus action to attack with a Flaming Sphere. Cast Fireball at level 6 - You will have access to 3rd level Wizard spells at only one level behind a full Wizard. Weapon Bond - Never be without a weapon War Magic - Cast Blade Ward and attack in the same round when tanking. Extra Attack - This is a very important ability. You’ll get it at Level 10 thereby giving you 3 attacks effectively if you are taking into account the bonus action spell attack with Flaming Sphere like spells. Access to 7th level Wizards spells as a Capstone - At 20th level you will be able to cast wizard spells of 7th level. That is only 2 spell levels behind a full wizard, and you are a lot more durable and versatile. Cons Feat Tax - Toughness, Elemental Adept, Heavy Armor Master (If your Str is not 16) and Intelligence boosts are very important to this build. You will also need to decide between War Caster and Great Weapon Fighter High class investment requirement - You need to take at least 7 levels of Fighter for this build. Extra Weapon attack comes at tier 3 - You don’t get that true extra attack until tier 3. Low HP at lower levels - Because you are trying to reach Wizard 5 quickly, you will have a low amount of HPs until you take the Toughness Feat. Spells like Shield and Blur help with this. |
| #8zagora_01May 08, 2015 11:02:30 | Reserved for build examples - Bard |
| #9zagora_01May 11, 2015 14:03:14 | Feat or Ability Score increase - I’m not going to list all the feats here. I will only go over the feats that I feel can be used to improve this style of play.
Ability Score Increase and Utility Feats Show
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| #10zagora_01May 29, 2015 22:56:26 | Arcane Bonus Action Attack Spells - These spells usually are an action to cast, but once they are cast it is a bonus action to continue attacks. Show 1st Level None
2nd Level
Flaming Sphere (Wizard) Heat Metal (Bard) Dust Devil (Sorcerer, Wizard)
3rd Level
Melf’s Minute Meteor (Sorcerer, Wizard)
4th Level
Mordenkainen’s Faithful Hound (Wizard) - This is not a bonus attack spell, but the hound attacks at the start of each of your turns. The really good thing about it is that it is not a concentration spell. Storm Sphere (Sorcerer, Wizard)
5th Level
Animate Object (Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard) Bigby’s Hand (Wizard)
6th Level
None
7th Level Mordenkainen’s Sword (Bard, Wizard) |
| #11zagora_01May 08, 2015 11:04:00 | Alright,
That should do it. You can start posting now. I should most of it up by the end of the day. Its still not complete, but a lot of it is done |
| #12awaken_D_M_golemMay 08, 2015 13:52:17 | Sweet. Thanks for taking this up.
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| #13durntaurMay 08, 2015 14:33:27 | On Fighting Styles, isn't your "Sword and Shield" reference the Protection style? Also, I don't know if it's intentional, but Dueling was left out.
Looking forward to this guide's completion. |
| (Reply to #13)zagora_01 |
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| (Reply to #14)zagora_01 | When I tried to copy and paste my Google doc information over all the font size and font colors won't transfer on this computer. They did on my work computer though. I can't figure out how to add those elements from this forum. Does anyone know how to do that? |
| #16KalaniMay 09, 2015 9:01:39 | Regarding 2H Weapons: Keep in mind that removing a hand from your weapon requires you to spend your 1 "free" Interaction with Objects (forget where I saw this). This means you will be forced to use unarmed strikes when making opportunity attacks unless you have 3 levels in Rogue (Thief), in which case you can spend a bonus action to regain your weapon grip. On your following turn, spellcasting should be done before returning your grip to your weapon. Fast Hands competes with War Magic, and Weapon Bond if an EK.
Eldritch Knights: You can also drop your weapon as a free action (Interact with Objects), and resummon it on the same turn with your bonus action. EKs wielding a 2H weapon have superior options to most other builds (see above). The same is also true for EKs who dual-wield, as they can drop/resummon one of their weapons. Keep in mind however, that the EK special ability competes with weapon bond.
Dropping Weapons: Dropping objects are listed in the Index, but nowhere else in the game. Their entry points to P190 (Interact with Objects), implying that dropping an object(s) counts as your one free "interaction with objects" each turn. This is not explictly stated, as such some DMs may allow you to drop it as a free action in addition to your one "Interaction with objects". Expect table variation. |
| (Reply to #16)zagora_01 |
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| #18zagora_01May 09, 2015 12:25:29 |
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| #19DyndrilliacMay 09, 2015 13:26:03 | In your text about the fighting styles, under Great Weapon Fighting, you refer to a feat called Heavy Weapon Master. It is, in fact, Great Weapon Master.
Also, I have experimented a great deal with Fighter/Warlock combos. You can see the culmination of that playtesting here: http://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/50327/10443 |
| #20zagora_01May 09, 2015 13:36:15 | Thanks, I'll make that change and look at your reference. |
| #21KalaniMay 09, 2015 13:37:49 |
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| (Reply to #21)zagora_01 |
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| #23ObeseBoyWonderMay 09, 2015 15:26:03 |
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| #25zagora_01May 13, 2015 15:47:55 | What do I have to do to get this put on the magical list of builds, or is it not worthy? |
| #26DonaldTMay 14, 2015 9:19:42 | I look forward to your assessments of the Pact of the Blade Warlock and the College of Valor Bard melee classes, and the Warlock and Wizard caster classes. Also, if you would be willing, I would love to see your assessments of the Favored Soul and Storm Sorcerer origins.
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| #27zagora_01May 14, 2015 8:17:32 |
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| #28MistwellMay 14, 2015 8:41:09 | I think Cleric 1 should be mentioned for some of these builds, as so many give you armor and shield proficiency, and also with the multiclassing rules allow stacking spell slots. Cleric 1 / Lore Bard X becomes a valid Warrior Mage, though you miss out on the extra attack. And the extra lore spells allow you to grab those wizard bonus action casting spells. |
| (Reply to #28)zagora_01 |
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| #30Macv12May 14, 2015 9:13:10 |
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| (Reply to #30)zagora_01 |
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| #32Macv12May 14, 2015 21:55:48 | Polearm Master is also worth mentioning for feats. You can hold a staff in one hand and a longsword in the other even without Dual Wielder, you just can't attack with them at the same time. Anytime you're one-handing or two-handing a staff, you benefit from both effects of PM. Alternatively, if you consider spellcasting essentially unrestricted while two-handing (referencing the Crawford ruling above), you can just use a halberd + component pouch with PM instead of bothering with the weaker staff.
The first bullet eliminates the need for the Two-Weapon Fighting style, giving you a bonus-action modifier-added attack when you attack with the staff. If your "main hand" weapon is a d8 or d10 instead or d6 or d8, your OA's are usually scarier and your overall damage is a bit better. Also frees up the style for something else; Defensive is always good, but you can also use Great Weapon or Dueling depending on how you hold the staff.
Plus, a reliable OA trigger. Paladins are especially scary with this, thanks to smites. Rogue levels for sneak attack can also pay off, since SA is once per "turn" (including enemy turns). Vengeance Paladin + Arcane Trickster might be interesting; auto-advantage against target, Cunning Action to step away after attacking it, reaction + SA + Smite if it approaches you, Cunning Action Disengage or Dash to chase it down if it doesn't. Haven't considered other facets of this build.
Also, it combines well with other feats. You can take Dual Wielder, Polearm Mastery, and Defensive style together for +2 AC and bonus attacks with modifier, and still have room for any enchanted swords or whatever you might find. PM + War Caster lets you break off a Disintegrate in someone's teeth just for walking up to you. I'll leave the advanced tactical implications of these features up to sharper minds than mine, but Polearm Master is just plain fun. |
| #33RCanineMay 15, 2015 6:21:21 | If you're collecting builds, I'd like to point you at RCanine's Witchalock which is an Eldritch Knight Fighter / Pact of the Tome Warlock multiclass. The primary mechanic is using War Magic to combine a cantrip + attack, maximizing the value of Hex while also being hard-to-hit and tough to disrupt concentration. Spells are generally used for off-turn actions (Shield, Hellish Rebuke, Misty Step), plus I have unlimited ritual capability, a familiar, and a massive 10 cantrips. Action Surge gives me an incredible nova round.
Some things to note:
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| (Reply to #33)zagora_01 | THanks RCanine and Macv12 for your imput. This is turning out to be a much bigger project than I originally planned. I will probably have to re-do the thread because I'm going to run out of space. I will say, I'm not doen with the feats yet. I actually have a Warlock/Paladin build using Pole Arm Master.
There is definately more to come. |
| #35zagora_01May 29, 2015 22:59:35 | I just want to say
My 4th level fighter/mage went toe to toe with a wereboar the other day. He is a 3rd level wizard and a first level fighter. With Chain, blur and shield going I was almost untouchable. I couldn't do damage with my sword, so I kep using cantrips and my wand of magic missiles. God I love fighter/mages! |