Think I’ve made a mistake
I started Bard for versatility and enabling/disabling and at 2nd level immediately went warlock 3 for the usual Hex, Agonising/Eldritch blast, mask and Tome. So I’m now 4th level and for the last 2 levels all I have done is blast my augmented cantrip.
I think the DPR power went to my head and I have lost all concept of what I wanted from this character. I have become a boring Blaster. Like a gambler, the occasional Crit saw me rolling lots of big dice with my eyes wide and a grin on my face. This has delayed me seeing the truth. This is not wat I wanted or now want.
I will slowly change my spells and my tactics now until I become that great monster disabler and player enabler
Should I get rid of Hex?
Should I get rid of E BLAST?
And Should I swap out Ag for the tome evocation?
Has anyone else had a similar experience where a certain spell or combo or trick has diverted their attention away from their wanted cincept?
Hex is good for disabling if you have a friend who likes to grapple. Otherwise enemy ability checks aren't too common, probably not worth keeping around if you don't want it for the damage.
Eldritch Blast is still good. Especially if there are multiple enemies you might be able to kill with 1 or 2 bolts. Can't disable any better than that.
Not sure what "tome evocation" refers to. You mean the ritual casting invocation? That's good for utility, not disabling really. Repelling Blast is nice, since you can end grapples and get allies out of OA range outside their turn, etc. Thief of Five Fates (cast Bane 1/day) is good disabling, but depends on how many encounters you get per day. Misty Visions (Silent Image at will) can kick ass depending on DM. All are better than Agonizing Blast if you don't want to DPR.
I had the opposite of this situation. Designed a ranger whose background and style depended on Polearm Master + Extra Attack, forgot I would have neither at lvl3. Ended up dual wielding mostly because my chosen halberd was poor without those features. So that part of the background just evaporated, and I developed them in a different direction.
Don't really get the "boring blaster" complaint. No matter what character you play you are going to spend most of 1-10 spamming the same cantrip or making the same attacks with the same weapon. Its been like that since always. If anything, multiclassing added variety, not take it away. Now you have twice the spells, and two types of slots to cast them from.
I would not get rid of agonizing blast. It would be like setting fire to your car so you can bike more. You can do other things if you want without feeling like you have to destroy the option you usually use first. I would say if you want variety, replace mask with tome of secrets. That will open up a lot of out of combat options and besides, Disguise Self is on the bard list anyway.
The best thing to do is just be patient. Low levels do have less things you can do, but that quickly changes. You'll start finding wands and staffs and unlocking higher level spells and a lot of doors will open up.
You want to become the great monster disabler and the player or team enabler. Then definitely keep Hex or consider lapsing it to grab it back at a higher level.You don't have to use it all the time, but it is certainly very useful for helping you ruin a victims day.
Keep Eldritch Blast, but swap out Agonising Blast for Book of Ancient Secrets. Find Familiar will be very useful. It gives you reach and more.
Invocations which may prove useful, Misty Visions (create your own cover, provide distractions and more- just don't have Hex up), Repelling Blast, Devils Sight (perfect vision 120 feet even in Magical Darkness, what's not to love. You see better than a Drow and an Owl- still you don't have to have it all the time. When you level, you can always replace an Invocation.
I am currently playing a 6th Level Human Librarian, Bard 1 Fey Tome-lock 5, with Agonising Blast, Book of Ancient Secrets and Misty Vision. I have quite a few rituals, Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Purify Food and Drink, Tiny Hut, Speak with Animals, Comprehend Languages, Alarm, Silence and a few more). At earlier levels I have alternated with spamming Eldritch Blast (Dark Magic Attack or Vengeance of the Fey), providing Guidance and Bardic Inspiration, Healing others, Deception, Stealth and lock picking ( standard practice for a Rashemi Librarian, visiting Thay on a Secret Mission).
Really it's about the fun you and your party have. You don't have to attack, you can help and so can your familiar. Get your owl to flyby a target, hoot and poop to provide focus for your Ranger with Longbow. You can help your Barbarian by creating a Prestiditation or Minor Illusion distraction or Messaging them with Encouraging words. Sometimes though you simply want to blast something which needs to get out of your way, it can be very satisfying.
Focus on the fact that as a Bard 1 Warlock 3, you have more Cantrips than a Bard or a Warlock (even without Tome Pact). You could limit yourself by removing your attack Cantrips but having some defence will help you survive to help your party and weaken the enemy. Once you get 5th Level, Eldritch Blast or Power from the Outer Darkness, nets you 2 beams (each has its own attack roll and you can target separate minions or rough up one big bad). Use your spells ( you have lots) be creative and don't be afraid of using your slots. I usually keep a Pact Slot free for just in case I need to dash via Misty Step or not be seen via invisibility. Get away, get help and get healed.
Whats your character concept? I'm a Librarian from Rasheman, I have read lots (10 Int, 18 Cha- talks more and read less lol), I might know a way to help with that. Spy Training from the New Rashemi Secret Service, oh my patron and I are very close (eventually I'll know that I am my Patron and my party are there to help me ascend, to go from Fey blooded Human to Archfey). Six months ago Tiamat was defeated, she and the world believe that Connavar the Barbarian did it, only the party know that a librarian got the killing blow courtesy of Eldritch Blast.
Heh. I am playing a bard/warlock too. I aim for a lore bard (between level 3 to 6, and I think I will go for 5 or 6) with the rest of my levels being in warlock. Right now I am a bard 1/warlock 3. I am a fey-chain-lock. I have agonizing blast and mask of many faces right now. I am planning to take misty visions next. After that, probably sculptor of flesh and then ascendant step. I plan to use sculptor of flesh on other characters (not myself).
Spell wise, I use fairy fire to debuff, sleep when I think it will be useful (though I will soon swap it out for hypnotic pattern), cure wounds/healing word when the party needs a quick pick-me-up, dissonant whispers when someone gets too close (with a drawn rapier for the opportunity attack), and phantasmal force. I like to choose phantasms that lock down, blind, and hurt a target. For example, a 10 foot deep well, with walls of ice, filled with icy water, which opens up beneath a foe's feat (so that he imagines he falls in). I use Hex with Int checks as the minus (so that people take Disadvantage to discover any of my illusions for what they are). I plan to take hold person next level. Out of combat, I use charm person for utility. Once I dip back into bard I am going for suggestion and fear, though heat metal, ehance ability, and leomund's tiny hut also look very appealing.
Hi folks. Thanks for all your suggestions. To answer a few questions,
Hati Nestomo: Female Voodoo-Woman/Witch Doctor
Magic Initiate and tome for 9 cantrips
Combat: E. Blast, V. Mockery, T. Whip, C. Bonfire
Utility: M. Hand, M. Illusion, Prestidigitation, Mould Earth, Shape Water
I want to go Bard now for the duration so more Warlock levels is a no go.
By Tome evocation you are correct I mean the the ritual book
I am happy doing damage but I want to do more than just damage
I think if I keep Hex, I might go Vicious Mockery to get a better chance of landing it.
I have pyrotechnics with create Bonfire but have not used it due to damage spamming
And I am guilty of saving spell slots for when I really need them when I should probably use them more often.
With all this in mind and with a variety of other combat cantrips, I might lose EB but retain Hex.
What do you think?
Hex doesn’t apply to saving throws, if I recall correctly. Personally, I'd keep Eldritch Blast over Hex.
If you’re looking to support your other players more, it’s hard to argue with the bardic college of valor – the bardic inspiration dice becomes very versatile, in my experience.
Oh damn, been playing that really wrong!
Time to own up to my DM. That drops Hex's usfullness by quite a bit for me. Woops!
rgoodbb wrote:
I actually think what you already had was pretty good as is.
Question though, do you plan on taking any more in Warlock levels?
-As this will determine what invocations you should be taking from it, and if it is just a dip then what do you want out of it?
Normally dipping Warlock is because you want EB + AB. Because you want to be a buffer / debuffer I would think that Repelling Blast would be ideal for you to turn your default blast into a controller action as well to assist the party.
The rituals invocation is nice but I would think that the above would give you more use and benefit the group greater, and if you want a familiar then you would be best choosing the Chain pact as it will give you a superior familiar. Rituals is good and all but I find so far that they aren't that great nor have they really changed much, but they are good for rp.
I do enjoy the Warlock and Bard mixes as the concepts just mesh well, the secret power words that can change the hearts of all.
I have 3 warlock levels and have gone Great Old One. I don't at this point intend to do more. Wanna get to Cutting Words/Additional Magical secrets quicker now.
I have gotten great use out of Mask of Many Faces so not sure about changing it
But may now change Agonizing Blast for Repelling Blast. With Thorn Whip that would give me push or pull cantrips, Once I get Flaming Sphere......
Hex doesn't work on attacks or saves. But I think Hex is still good to lower a monster's ability to counter or resist grappling, pushing, tripping and such by targetting their higher of Strength or Dexterity.. Or if you want to more easily hide from something, Hex their Wisdom. Or if you don't want them to be able to hide from you very well, Hex their Dexterity.
I can see in those situations that it would be useful
Unfortunately in our party we dont; push, trip, or hide and have only once attempted a grapple (sucsessfully) with hex.
I can keep it for a few more levels and see if it's used, but from now on I am deliberately looking at other spells first.
sometimes a character concept is broken. Best to start a new character. I've had all sorts of concepts that didn't work. One of the struggles of playing roleplaying games is you get this great vision for how the character is going to grow and interact with the world, and then the adventures or DM muck it all up, and then you find you have to either adapt or die. That breeds this horrible feeling of having to prep your characters for bad DMing stereotypical encounters just so you can get to that "cut scene" where your character goals come to fruition.
Best thing you can do is either work out something with your DM in advance to present opportunities (which also has its own way of spoiling the experience) or go with the flow (which usually results in hyper adapted non functional characters like the one you described).
So here's the zen philosophy of character design. Build a character with level 20 in mind, but don't focus too hard, or your predictive mapping will make the whole experience seem like reading a play script right before they act it out. Establish patterns of growth you might like, but leave opportunities for change. Let your DM know the general direction you want to go, and point out 2 or 3 critical things you would really like to see or do, but leave it open ended for changes, and expect surprises.
Say you want to save a princess, slay a dragon, and be a world master with a sword,
but that doesn't mean the princess is in the kingdom you star it, or that the dragon is alone or even the right color, or that the sword you wield will necessarily be a long sword or rapier.
Perhaps the princess you save is cursed to take the form of a dragon you have to save, and the sword you master is an enchanted Cutlass you obtained while sailing the seas for a cure for the curse?
Ever seen that movie Vanity Fair? It's a great example of how what a person wants, and what a person needs and gets can interact in weird ways, but end decently.
rgoodbb wrote:
rgoodbb wrote:
Are your bard/warlocks like rockstars who sold their souls for rock and roll? All for the ale, wenches and fame acros the kingdom? I'm really curious about the character backgrounds and how you fellows conceptualize the characters. Would you mind posting a synopsis of your backgrounds?
Gwaithador wrote:
Character Background: Hati Nestomo
Female Voodoo woman lives in a hut just outside Phandalin
The children sing a chant to warn each other to keep away from her:
The Wicker-Hut
Eight mile down by the wicker hut
Enter with a soul an she’ll take yer gut
Two little witch girls sitting on da ground
One say looks, you what I ‘ave found
Arf a scorpion, wiggling about
Sting your big toe, an the poisons out
Somethin aint right, you leave it see
Or the wicker hut, is where you’ll be
Poisoned bad, seein’ a blur
You been stabbed, go see her
Hex your Nan, curse your brother
She’ll take your man to nurse your mother
Make yer bargain, say yer piece
Give up yer nephew to save yer niece
Enter ye of yer own free will
Through da gloom and into da chill
But know this, if ya want sommut makin’
You’ll get yer wish, but she’ll av ‘er takin’
If the price is high, too much to give
She’ll still take yer soul, but let you live
You knew the risk, followed yer hope
They’ll find yer body, from a rope
Fink fink twice, and trust yer gut
Before you enter da wicker hut
Fink fink twice, and trust yer gut
Before you enter da wicker hut
21. Erizel- Erizel of Rasheman is the only daughter of a powerful Hathran and is destined to be a worthy heir. Sadly she lacked any ability with even the simplest of cantrips. Her mother sends her off to join the newly formed Rashemi Secret Service, where she may be of use. It was during her spy training, that she dreamt of a mysterious fey who offered her a deal to awaken her powers. Now Erizel has magic and can even heal, she recalls that a gift deserves a gift, that nothing is ever free and she wonders what her patron may want...
The Great Library of Rasheman
Erizel claims to be a librarian from the Great Library of Rasheman, it is her official cover and with her mask, she is always ready to deal with those Red Necromancers of Thay.
Does the Great Library actually exist? Is it merely a cover for the New Rashemi Secret Service?
After Erizel and her party defeated Tiamat, her Patron Lezire Archfey of Time and Shadows told her to ensure that she persuades Bards to spread misinformation about the Fall of Tiamat. Her companion Connavar, a barbarian is receiving the dubious honour of being the one who defeated her (Erizel actually got the final stroke via Vengeance of the Fey (Eldritch Blast)). Now Bards across Faerun sing about Connavar, the mighty Wyvern Rider. Erizel has faded back into the background, biding her time in her quest for ascension.
Erizel returned home for initiation into the Sisterhood to the delight of her mother and was gifted a Rod of the Pact Keeper.
As far as Lezire is concerned it's all going to plan, Erizel no longer hides behind illusory bushes, has already mastered many rituals including Wild Speech (Speak with Animals), can create Lesser Shadowlands (Tiny Hut) and Silence in the Library.
I know this isn't really what you asked, but this could also provide you with an excellent role-playing tool. A bard whose main goal in life was to assist his friends through inspiration and defensive magic makes a pact with a dark power and suddenly becomes hell-bent on destroying his foes? That sounds like great RP fodder. Make your decisions to refocus your character on your original character concept become mirrored in the game as the bard struggles to find himself again.
All of your kind and helpful posts and my replies to them have actually really helped me refocus my PC.
I have things like Faerie Fire, Tasha's, Hold Person, D. Whispers and Suggestion.
I have never used them. (criminal I know)
I have always started Hex and carried on with Blast etc.
So I know each combat situation is different but what is a good starting spell or order of spells?
I know Whispers is good for a surrounded enemy but what should I begin with on average?
rgoodbb wrote:
Cyber-Dave
Would you recommend FF over something like Bane to concentrate on? I have access to get that as well
rgoodbb wrote:
Hex applied to the different stats:
Str: Make monsters easier to grapple, push, trip. Makes them fail climb checks. Makes them fail to hold you with a grapple check.
Con: Makes them fail checks to keep up a pursuit, hold their breath, last without water or food, last in extreme heat or cold.
Dex: Slower initiative, easier to grapple, easier to trip, harder to hide from you, harder to walk a tightrope
Int: Easier to fool with illusions and disguises
Wis: Easier to pursuade, easier to intimidate, easier to hide from
Cha: Less intimidating, less pursuasive
Remember - unless they have a big flashy effect, the target of a spell does not necessarily detect it. While some of these are fairly niche, others can be used on all creature interactions or during combat.
If all you're doing is blasting cantrips, either your DM is running a weak monster fest and it would be boring no matter what character you had, or you are sitting out non combat interactions by choice. Stop doing that and you'll find your character is more than the to hit roll and damage of your combat spell.
The Non Combat part of the campaign is pretty good actually and I'm enjoying my role that part immensley. It is the Combat part that has become boring for me as soon as I took Agonising Blast and went Hex with it.
Initiative
Me second usually behind the Beastmaster Ranger
I hex this guy and blast him.
I blast hm
I blast him....
I move my Hex and Blast him....
I have been totally neglecting all these other interesting spells
Hold Person, Dissonant, Tasha's, Faerie Fire, Silent Image, Pyrotechnics
I think I have used Thunderwave once and Charm Person once.
So I am going to start a new leaf.
Group of enemies = Faerie Fire
Single Target = Hold Person
Two Targets = Tasha's on one to take them out the fight
Target surrounded = Dissonant to get AOO
Control Access = Create Bonfire and Pyrotechnics if and when necessary
All this to be followed up with Vicious Mockery as my main Cantrip to debuff enemies to help my frontliners take less damage.
Would the above be a reasonable/sound tactical plan? My teammates are a ranged Beastmaster 4 with a rat, Life Cleric 4, and a Pally/Sorc 2/2.
OK. Good backup. Gotcha
Cheers.
Mazzy wrote:
Yeah went warlock to get some Vooddo stuff & fluff (Awakened Mind etc) and ended up trying to be a damage blaster. Kinda lost my way and lost sight of what it was I wanted
Hindsight, should have totally gone pure Bard and refluffed the rest.
Back on track now anyway.
Thanks for everyone's input, I know who I am again.