Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 superknud Aug 27, 2014 2:33:14	Hey all, I was tossing around some ideas for one of my monthly groups and came up with a Lock/Bard MC that dips 3 levels into bard for a group of 4 PCs that has a Hunter Ranger, Veng Pally (that is lvl 4 and still has not  'learned' a heal spell yet lol), a totem barbarian, and an Archfey/blade Lock (me).   Pros- Access to CW/HW that I can cast up to lvl 5, 6 extra spell slots per log rest (4 1st and 2 2nd if I am interpreting the table correctly), 2 extra cantrips, Jack of all trades, d6 bardic inspiration and song of rest, expertise, 1 skill and 1 instrument proficiency, and then either 3 more skills and cutting words OR weapon/armor/shield proficiency and combat inspiration.   Cons-Slower overall progression, no eldritch master, 1 less ability score improvement, 1 less warlock spell known and 1 less invocation.   I'm leaning towards doing it, because I think it opens up a lot more possibilities for my character without really sacrificing much (except for the ability score bump/feat, that hurts)   We are currently lvl 4 if that has any bearing on anything, and the DM plans to take this group to max.   Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks for your time.
#2 Mephi1234 Aug 27, 2014 4:22:48	Okay, I'd like to point out that, since you're group is only level 4, you will have six more levels where you will only have two spells per short rest.    That's nine levels if you start dipping for 3 bard immediately.   Will you really be happy having to (effectively) save all your warlock spell slots to heal and only heal, as you are suggesting?     That means you won't have the slots, for a very large chunk of your game, meaning no Hex, no Armor of Agathys, no teleports or illusions.    That also means that you're going to be getting the level 6+ spells so much later than everyone else - while (with GM approval, since the wording on invocations are vague and she may rule that you need class level, not character level) you might get the extra attack and cha damage at roughly the same level everyone else gets those bumps, you still are going to be getting lots of other goodies much later.      So, your Warlock X / Bard 3 build will have expertise, lots of skills, and healing magic, yes, but its going to have a large chunk of its warlock resources devoted to doing bard stuff.    Also, the loss of the level 18 invocation - you'd only get 7 instead of 8.        Also, I'd like to point out that most games don't get all the way up to 20.    So, you're not just giving up eldritch master (most capstones are dumb anyways, the milestones at 5/6, 10/11/12, and 17/18 are the big ones); you're giving up the last three levels of whenever your group stops.    That could be a loss of level 6 and 7 spells entirely if you stop at level 13, as well as a feat.   If you stopped at 14, you lose feat, level 7 spell, and the insanely good pact feature capstones that are all but one critter insta-kills.    Even if the plan is eventually get to level 20, plans and games fall apart.      When you consider multiclassing, you have to look at the build at every level, or at least at certain key milestones; a white room theory build where you start at level 20 is only good if you're starting play at level 20.   Because you still have to play through all those levels.    Are you going to be happy to wait until the very end game, assuming you ever get there, to get your level 9 spells when everyone else hit their level 17 milestone power bump three levels earlier?        And a paladin should never need to 'learn' a healing spell.   That's what lay on hands is for.    Groups in 5e shouldn't need a dedicated healer, with how you can regain HD during a short rest as well, plus any healing potions.    Are you actually in need of a healer in your group, or are you doing this because you feel that there needs to be one?       ---------------------------------------------------------------------------     Now, you may really like the idea of the extra skills and bardic inspiration, or getting the medium armor without the feat.    If you want to multiclass for that, then go for it.     But I would not suggest doing this because you feel the need to become a healer.      Also, wait until after level 5 before multiclassing.   Getting Extra Attack should be your first priority, otherwise you'll really fall behind in terms of damage.     And talk to your GM about the warlock Invocation levels - is she ruling its "character levels" or "class levels," as the book is deliberately vague on the issue.
#3 superknud Aug 27, 2014 15:50:56	thanks for your input.   it seems like multiclassing has a lot of benefits early on, and then at end game, but kinda saps the fun from the mid levels due to the delaying of whatever main spec you choose. I'm gonna keep looking and talk to the GM and see what he thinks about some of the not so specific rules and weigh that as well.