Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 FrogReaver Jun 25, 2015 0:15:31	My personal method of choice for determining if I should level dip is to compare features at various levels.   Here's an example of a 1 level dip into barbarian.   Let's say I have a level 3 rogue thief.  Assuming I meet prereqs is it worth dipping a single level of barbarian?  Let's find out.   *I'm assuming I'm not able to take advantage of any other barbarian features at level 1 with my rogue, if I was able to then that changes things.   Level 4 - rouge gets a stat increase vs barbarian gets 2x rages for damage resistance per day.  (Winner barbarian dip) Level 5 - rogue +1d6 sneak attack damage and Uncanny dodge vs 2x rages  (Winner no dip) Level 6 - expertise vs 2x rages (too close to call IMO.  both are good abilities, one is for combat one out of combat) Level 7 - evasion and 1d6 sneak attack vs 2x rage (winner no dip) Level 8 - stat bump vs 2x rages (winner barbarian) Level 9 - +1d6 sneak attack and supreme sneak vs 2x rages per day (for me this is too close to call) Level 10 - ASI vs 2x rages (winner barbarian dip) Level 11 - ....     So ultimately it depends somewhat on where I expect the campaign to end but it looks like the barbarian dip vs no dip alternates back and forth pretty regularly.  As such I'd say it's a fine dip but not a must take dip.     *Note you can also put weights on the winners to denote how much they won by.   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The comparisons get a little more complex with 2 and 3 level dips but essentially it's the same premise except you'll be constantly comparing the 3 swapped out features to your currently highest level features of the other class.     If you ever have any doubts about whether you should dip or not then do an analysis like this and you will have your answer.   I guess to summarize this system you have to compare the highest class level(s) abilites your class has at each character level to the abiliteis the character gains by dipping.
#2 FrogReaver Jun 25, 2015 0:20:52	I wanted to add that it's not even important if you agree with what I determine is the winner in each level comparison.  This test is made to be somewhat subjective as different people may value their character having different abilities (especailly certain ones affecting different pillars of the game)   In other words it's a test any individual can use to determine if he should dip or not.  It's not a test anyone else could apply to the same choices and always reach the same decision.  Though in many situations the decision will be the same, just not always (mostly when it comes to abilities that affect different pillars of the game).
#3 Mazzy Jun 25, 2015 0:31:46	Dipping is fine but you have to time it right. Level 2 warlock/Level 18 Sorcerer is amazing but Level 2 warlock/Level 3 sorcerer is awful. If you are going to dip you should not do it before level 6. Level 5 is just too huge of a level for most classes and the spike in difficulty will make you a serious liability to your party. Don't assume that it will all work itself out at level 6 because you are making a lot of assumptions.   After gaining 5 levels in a class, it becomes much more reasonable for most classes. This is counter-intuitive for fans of pathfinder and 3e since multiclassing is something you needed to do very early to meet the qualifications you needed. But in 5e, you would be wise to wait.
(Reply to #3) FrogReaver	Mazzy wrote:
#5 svendj Jun 25, 2015 2:03:50	This type of analysis is great. To complete it, I think you should do a KPR (kills per round) comparison per level for multi- and pureclassed builds. Compare it to the standard monster stats in the DMG (page 274) to get some good reference numbers. That will really show your effectiveness (or lack thereof) at different levels.
(Reply to #5) FrogReaver	svendj wrote:
#7 ChrisCarlson Jun 25, 2015 7:03:47	Dipping is okay. But double-dipping is a party foul!   Nowadays, I only really dip for two reasons: 1) because it's part of the direction I want/need to represent my character's concept (maybe I see ninja as a monk dipping into rogue), or 2) organically due to an in-game situation that has pushed my character along that path (say my fighter joins a holy order during play and picks up a few divine favors represented by paladin or cleric).   I don't think I've dipped strictly for power/crunch/synergy reasons in quite a long time. Or at least, the synergies I'm getting fit a strong narrative and are not just for mechanical win buttons.
#8 Mommy_was_an_Orc Jun 25, 2015 7:23:28	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #8) FrogReaver	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#10 Mommy_was_an_Orc Jun 25, 2015 10:43:31	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #10) FrogReaver	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#12 Mommy_was_an_Orc Jun 25, 2015 12:37:52	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #12) FrogReaver	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote: