| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1DeathDiceMar 19, 2015 11:58:10 | I'm having a hard time choosing Tome or chain:
Our game finally started with my DM running the Rise of Tiamat adventure.
All was cool and fine,the rest of the party ended up being a Rogue, Figther, monk, cleric, and druid.
o.O
So at 3rd level do I go with an old map case full of rituals and cantrips, or the parrot (Imp in disguise)? |
| #2daspianMar 19, 2015 12:25:52 | parrot sounds fun, particularly because you can RP that when it talks to you, it sounds like the parrot from aladdin and is basically greedy, evil (whatever you want inserth here) and is basically like that little devil that sits on your shoulder (literally) |
| #3durntaurMar 19, 2015 12:29:47 | Both are interesting concepts, either one would be fun to roleplay. The real difference is "under the hood" (mechanical). Honestly, you could have your cake and eat it too by going Tome. Pick up Book of Ancient Secrets as one of your first two invocations and pick Find Familiar as one of your 2 free rituals. Summon your parrot. Profit.
Yeah, a parrot is not an imp, but considering you're undecided, it doesn't seem that that aspect of it is a deal-breaker. So, you get your map case and a parrot, yay! |
| #4WizardVMar 19, 2015 14:29:49 | Obviously take tome, the ritual book invocation, and take find familiar for a parrot. The only advantage of chain is if you want a familiar with poison. Sure it's nice if you can reasonably hit a DC 20 nature check to extract the poison, but otherwise I find chain lackluster. Rituals on the other hand are amazing to have around. |
| #5ChrisCarlsonMar 19, 2015 14:35:53 | I find that a bit shortsighted. There is so much more to an imp than your suggestion of trying to milk it for poisons. |
| #6WizardVMar 19, 2015 14:44:46 | You have to list advantages over an owl. The imp has 10 life and 13 AC. Neither is going to survive an attempt to kill it.
The imp is a better scout. It has invisibility over an owl and devils sight. The imp can speak to communicate which is nice.
Either familiar can be used for combat assists on your turn. Either can fly and be used for scouting.
The tome option has these advantages which I think are quite substantial:
--------------------------------------------------- Alarm [Abjuration] (V,S,M; Ritual) (Ranger, Wizard)
--------------------------------------------------- Animal Messenger [Enchantment] (V,S,M; Ritual) (Bard, Druid, Ranger)
--------------------------------------------------- Feign Death [Necromancy] (V,S,M; Ritual) (Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard)
--------------------------------------------------- Divination [Divination] (V,S,M; Ritual, Expensive Components) (Cleric)
--------------------------------------------------- Commune [Divination] (V,S,M; Ritual) (Cleric)
--------------------------------------------------- Drawmij's Instant Summons [Conjuration] (V,S,M; Ritual, Expensive Components) (Wizard) |
| #7DeathDiceMar 19, 2015 14:46:11 | The RP aspect of a talking parrot for my Pirate Warlock (who may or may not MC into Sorceror given the wrinkle my DM has thrown at me) is something I really like. I was worried that going chain would be bad given my party make up or something I'm unaware of. Without the MM in front of me I can't analyse the imp. I only recall it can shapechange I think. That's how I got the parrot idea. |
| #8Matau99Mar 19, 2015 14:45:43 | @WizardV Don't forget Skywrite, from EE. |
| #9ChrisCarlsonMar 19, 2015 15:00:06 |
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| #10ChrisCarlsonMar 19, 2015 15:02:52 |
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| #11DeathDiceMar 19, 2015 15:30:42 | Due to having to track down and pay for writing all the rituals into said book, the chain is sounding more and more fun to me. Plus I get to do voices!
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| #12awaken_D_M_golemMar 19, 2015 16:02:04 | Chain = super scout, note the chain specific invocation too. Anything else that stuffs Sensory abilities in there, helps. Fluff ... you ever watch the Pirates Of The Carribean, for the "monkey" ?
WizardV excellent list. You mind if I hack it, over to the Warlock handbook?
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| #13durntaurMar 19, 2015 16:22:42 | You can still do that with Tome + Find Familiar (a ritual you can get via Book of Ancient Secrets for free right at L3); i.e. roleplay a parrot. |
| #14awaken_D_M_golemMar 21, 2015 13:43:41 | ... and a Chain'lock can take the Ritual feat. It's "familiar" then has survivability, attack action, magic resistance , and ...
It depends on what you want. Tome'lock is fine, I like it, but it isn't everything a Chain'lock can do.
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| #15BullywugMar 22, 2015 2:14:33 | With a tomb warlock you can have a raven with mimicry to use as your parrot, also imps are immune to poison and resistant to non magical / silvered weapons and other damage types and are therefore harder to kill then being discriped |
| #16Mephi1234Mar 22, 2015 5:44:53 | I have a very strong suspicion that the Chain warlock is supposed to be a kind of hybrid cross of mind-controller, Beastmaster and Conjurer, but with kinda weak mechanics.
If all you wanted was the parrot familiar and not a summoner / controller style person, then I do recommend the Book. Even if you never take the rituals, three free cantrips are huge!
I think a better question really should be this - what kind of playstyle are you looking for? Also, are you going for a Fiend warlock or a Great Old One? I think of Chain as a more social pet-focused class, while Book is more of a mental, stereotypical caster type, and obviously Blade is the physical gishy type.
Chain warlocks, imho, focus more on having mind controls, summoning-like spells, and the like. And it actually works a lot better with a Great Old One patron. A GOO pirate would actually be pretty awesome. "Summon the Kracken!" = Evard's Black Tentacles.
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| #17DeathDiceMar 30, 2015 14:32:17 | So we're playing through Hoard of the Dragon Queen and we just hit 3rd level.
My Warlock (ex-pirate GOO-lock) has gone pact of the Tome (an old map case full of scribbled nautical charts and maps), and will be swapping Devil Sight out to take Book of Ancient Secrets. I'm not fond of losing Agonizing Blast, and the sight thing hasn't come up yet. He'll also be swapping out his Arms of Hadar (as the fighting style of my DM hasn't allowed him to use it safely yet), and I've gotten more use out of Hex and Armor of Agathys
So that makes 3 cantrips (any class), 2 warlock spells (Level 2 or lower), and 2 ritual spells (1st level, any class) that he'll be picking up.
1 ritual will be Find Familiar, and it'll be a Parrot (it's a Raven with a different look). Any advice on the 2nd ritual? I was thinking Identify to help the party.
Without Devil Sight I don't think I'll be taking Darkness from the 2nd level spell list, and with still only 2 slots per rest I'm not sure what I'll be willing to take if I give up a Hex or Armor of Agathys to cast it.
The party make-up is A Dragonborn Druid, Human Rogue, Tiefling Fighter, Halfling Monk, and a Half-elf Cleric.
Any advice on my choices for cantrips and spells? So far I've been EB-ing and setting myself up as the party arcanist.
Edit: I've settled on Vicious Mockery, Guidance, and Light (because I ditched Devil Sight) as my cantrips. Hold Person and Mirror Image are the 2 warlock spells I went with.
My Social and stealth skills are getting used as much as the Rogue usually fills both roles and the Monk tags along. I'll concentrate on being a back row blaster.
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| #18WizardVMar 30, 2015 18:31:23 | For a second ritual Detect Magic is commonly useful. It lasts for awhile and helps you spot things. Identify is something I usually get done in town but if your DM is throwing random dungeon specific wands at you or something it's also a good choice.
For cantrips, Guidance is always a popular cantrip. Nothing better than filling your head with demonic thoughts and knowing things you shouldn't for fun RP. You can even just use it for an initiative boost every combat. The more people with it the merrier. Shillelagh can be a funny twist if you get stuck in melee. With armor of agathys and that up you're a pretty scary melee combatant. If any of your party has solid grab potential (like that Druid) summon bonfire has potential though its concentraiton competes with Hex. If you run into a lot of high AC monsters like hobgoblins sacred flame is a reflex save for radiant damage.
For level 2 spells I would focus on utility. Even with a very high casting stat I haven't had good luck with repeating save spells like hold person and there just isn't much offense for you at level 2. Basically you're an EB machine at this point whereas sorcs are bursting scorching ray. So chip in your EB contribution and shine elsewhere. If you don't take Shillelagh, Misty Step is another solution for melee combat. It's also useful for crossing chasms, breaking and entering, and stealth. Ever play dishonored? He basically has misty step. Invisibility is similarly nice for stealth or evading attackers but it costs your action. Very useful RP utility in my experience. I wouldn't leave home without it.
Between the druid pass without trace, invisibility, a rogue and a monk it looks to me like your party could stealth into very naughty situations.
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