Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 LordTwig Jun 23, 2015 15:12:51	I tried a few times to build a Way of the Four Elements Monk and kept getting stuck on what disciplines to choose. Finally I decided to write down each discipline, what element it was, what it did, what level, etc. Then I found some funny things with the default Elemental Attunement discipline. Then I wondered why WotC is willing to add spells to other classes spell lists, but not to Monks?   Anyway, here is what I wrote up.   Way of the Four Elements I have divided all sixteen disciplines (not counting Elemental Attunement) into their elemental categories. Then I list the level, whether it is a spell or ability, range, spell name or effect, target or area, and type (buff, control, damage or ribbon). Also base damage and if there is a save when applicable.   But first a word about Elemental Attunement... The rules state, “A discipline requires you to spend ki points each time you use it.” However, Elemental Attunement never specifies how many ki points you need to spend. Everyone assumes it is free (and it probably should be), but is it really?   It also never lists a range, or a size, for the “harmless, instantaneous sensory effects”. Can I heat water a mile away or do I have to touch it? Can I create sparks from my hand, in a 5’ cube, over the entire town? We don’t know.   Elemental Attunement: 1st, Ability, “nearby”, Cantrip Effects, Varies, Ribbon   Air Fist of the Four Thunders: 1st, Spell, Self, Thunderwave, AoE (15’ cube), Control/Damage (2d8, save) Fist of Unbroken Air: 1st, Ability, 30’, Push 20’ and Prone, Target, Control/Damage (3d10, save) Rush of the Gale Spirits: 1st, Spell, self, Gust of Wind, AoE (60’x10’ line), Control (save) Clench of the North Wind: 6th, Spell, 60’, Hold Person, Target, Control (save) Gong of the Summit: 6th, Spell, 60’, Shatter, AoE (10’ sphere), Damage (3d8, save) Ride the Wind: 11th, Spell, self, Fly, self, Buff   Earth Eternal Mountain Defense: 17th, Spell, Self, Stoneskin, Self, Buff Wave of Rolling Earth: 17th, Spell, 120’, Wall of Stone, 10 10’x10’ panels, Control   Fire Fangs of the Fire Snake: 1st, Ability, 15’, Unarmed Strikes, Target, Damage (same as unarmed, fire) Sweeping Cinder Strike: 1st, Spell, self, Burning Hands, AoE (15’ cone), Damage (3d6, save) Flames of the Phoenix: 11th, Spell, 150’, Fireball, AoE (20’ sphere), Damage (8d6, save) River of the Hungry Flame: 17th, Spell, 120’, Wall of Fire, Wall 60’x20’ or 20’ diameter, Control/Damage (5d8, save)   Water Shape the Flowing River: 1st, Ability,120’, turn water to ice, AoE (30’ cube), Control/Ribbon Water Whip: 1st, Ability, 30’, 25’ Pull or Prone, Target, Control/Damage (3d10, save) Mist Stance: 11th, Spell, self, Gaseous Form, self, Buff Breath of Winter: 17th, Spell, self, Cone of Cold, AoE (60’ cone), Damage (8d8, save)   Spells I would add from Elemental Evil Player’s Companion. Air Warding Wind: 6th, Spell, self, Warding Wind, AoE (10' radius), Buff/Control    Earth Earth Tremor: 1st, Spell, self, Earth Tremor, AoE (10’ radius), Control/Damage (1d6, save) Maximilian’s Earthen Grasp: 6th, Spell, 30', Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, Target, Control/Damage (2d6, save) Erupting Earth: 11th, Spell, 120’, Erupting Earth, AoE (20’ cube), Control/Damage (3d12, save) Wall of Sand: 11th, Spell, 90', Wall of Sand, Wall 30'x10'x10', Control   Fire Aganazzar’s Scorcher: 6th, Spell, 30', Aganazzar's Scorcher, AoE (30’x5' line), Damage (3d8, save) Melf's Minute Meteors: 11th, Spell, Self (120'), Melf's Minute Meteors, AoE (5' radius), Damage (6x2d6, save)   Water Ice Knife: 1st Tidal Wave: 11th Wall of Water: 11th Watery Sphere: 17th
#2 LordTwig Jun 23, 2015 16:29:29	Another thing to note is that in the description it tells you that some monks focus on one element. The problem is that's great if you are an air monk. Fire and water can also manage it but have no choice in what they can pick. Being an earth monk is a no-go, however. There are only two disciplines to get and they are both 17th level. They would have to get their first 3 from the other elements, then change one at 17th and only then would they get any earth powers at all. Except to make the ground rumble gently.   I need to finish the stats for the Elemental Evil spells. Will do that when I get a chance.
#3 GladiusLegis Jun 24, 2015 12:07:47	The conclusion shouldn't take long to figure out. Spoiler alert: Element Monks suck hard. Arguably as much or even moreso than Beast Masters.
(Reply to #3) Yunru	GladiusLegis wrote:
(Reply to #4) LordTwig	Yunru wrote:
#6 Yunru Jun 24, 2015 14:55:31	It needs more bonus action stuff. And the eratta remove the only one it had. Everything the Monk does relies around punching stuff with it's action. Why they then made a subclass based around using your action for other thing boggles the mind.
#7 durntaur Jun 24, 2015 15:30:57	Yunru wrote:
#8 Jordan175 Jun 25, 2015 12:43:48	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #8) LordTwig	Jordan175 wrote:
#10 Mommy_was_an_Orc Jun 26, 2015 5:13:13	LordTwig wrote:
(Reply to #7) Miladoon	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #11) Miladoon	pow pow double unborken post fist
#13 cannonfodder Jun 26, 2015 17:37:02	They're like a really crappy 1/3 caster.
#14 Marandahir Jun 27, 2015 8:25:34	The problem is that they should have the same number of spells and resources as a 1/3 caster, just channeled through the ki source. And they should have more power choice. Elemental Evil adjusted the spell list of casters big-time in a major oversight: the lack of earth-based spells. My guess at the real reason there was no Earth Domain (one of the first Warpriest Domains last edition) in the 5th Edition Player's Handbook was that they hadn't made enough earth-type spells for those Clerics of Moradin to cast from their domain list. The player's handbook has only a couple, and this translated to only a couple Earth Monk Disciplines. There were lots of great Earth spells added in Elemental Evil Player's Companion, though, so that should fix the diversity of choice. Especially with the other elemental spells added. The weakness I find is that Monks in general have far too little Ki to spend to function for what they do. Way of the Open Hand Monks get away with this because they spend their Ki a lot less on their subclass features and can just focus on Fury of Blowing. Way of Shadow Monks get away with it because they use minor illusion for free and shadow step for free. Way of the Four Elements Monks have to pay ki costs through the wazoo to feel flavourful. The amount of Ki Monks get should be readjusted.
#15 jaappleton Jun 27, 2015 10:52:59	They're being addressed, according to Mike Mearls. Just no new design to share quite yet.
#16 OnionDruid Jun 28, 2015 0:19:37	Don't wait for any official update, this should be good enough. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412907-Crowdsourced-Fix-of-Way-of-the-Four-Elements-Monk-Subclass
#17 LordTwig Jun 28, 2015 1:05:48	Filled in more of the Elemental Evil stuff. Also I added Melf's Minute Meteors. I can't believe I forgot to put it in there before!   As a side note, Minute Meteors allows a Monk to use a bonus action to send the meteors flying. So one spell would allow him to fight with his fire element for 3 to 6 rounds, which has a ton of flavor.   I looked at some of the proposed fixes and there are some good ideas. The only problem is this would require a complete re-write of the Elemental Monk. That might be a bit too much to ask. Just adding a small handful of Ki free abilities (maybe one per element?) would be enough. Then with the expanded spell list I think it would go a long way towards making the Elemental Monk more playable.