Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 TrentKL May 19, 2015 20:03:42	So my group is starting this friday and someone needs to be an arcane type ... I keep looking at Wizard / Arcane ... and it just doesn't reach out to me ... low level wizards never have ... I really played alot back in 2nd edition a little bit in 3rd but I found that the only way I ever enjoyed wizard was in characters that dual classed (So they had other things to fall back on) I was thinking some type of spell archer with a high elf soldier back ground but ... the class seems overly confusing compared to older times .. (Or maybe my age is creeping up on me) We have: Barbarian/Fighter(Brawler), Ranger (Bow), Cleric, Rogue (Bow) and me ... at a loss at what to make to fit the group (Originally I planned on a battle cleric) So are wizards worth it? Seems like alot of hate out on them atm ... which also makes me hesitant ... while I don't need to rule the fight I also don't really want to be wasting peoples time pick my nose why the melee / archers do all the work.
#2 KaptainKrunch May 19, 2015 20:12:04	There's Wizard Hate?   I wouldn't do a Wizard for Spell Archery though.   You may want to look into Valor Bard if that's the Schtick your going for (And you want to be a full caster.)       You say that someone needs to be the "arcane type", what exactly do you mean by that? That you need AOE damage? That you need a controller?  You don't need to be "arcane" to pull that off.     And to be honest, in 5e since they got rid of the whole Arcane spell failure chance from previous editions, there really isn't much of a mechanical difference between Divine magic and Arcane magic. It's really about what spells are on each class' list.     Edit: Looking at the group you're in, a controller would fit nicely. Check out my Sig for a full guide - and then once you figure out which class appeals to you the most, click one of the links to the more detailed guide for that class.   Otherwise I'm happy to answer any questions in this thread.
#3 mellored May 19, 2015 20:35:00	i suggest a warlock. more consistant then a wizard.
#4 KaptainKrunch May 19, 2015 20:37:55	mellored wrote:
#5 Ashrym May 19, 2015 23:46:25	If you want the arcane archer concept you are probably better off going with the valor bard as suggested, or eldritch knight.  Eldritch knight has the fighting style, bonus feats, and action surge to work the concept.  Slow spell progression.   I prefer warlock as well, but I want to make sure I'm clear it's not a wizard hate or balance issue.  At low levels the short rest recharge, eldritch blast, and SLA invocations have a lot going for it.  Wizards still have good abilities in the schools and I don't think one is really superior to the other; they each have different strengths.  I prefer the more at will component and flavor with warlocks.   If you want to go with a wizard then arcane recovery isn't a bad ability, spell swapping and ritual casting from the spell book is great, and spell mastery at higher levels is rock solid as far as wizards go.  You'll get your widest variety of spells from the wizard.  Tome warlock is similar but paces differently and the spell selection is a bit different, and more restricted.   Sorcerer provides metamagic and has strong mechanics in that area but it's the currently released subclasses that don't appeal to me.  If your DM allows the unearthed arcana material then favored soul might be what you want as well.  It has that second attack for an archer, decent fluff and mechanics, and less limited spell variety than the base class.     EDIT: I almost forgot some comments.  Divination wizards are currently my favorites, followed by evokers and abjurers.  Evokers really come into their own with overchannel but there are some perks before that.  Abjurers have an interesting protection mechanic.  Diviners with portent are da bomb as far as wizards go, imo.
#6 TrentKL May 20, 2015 5:19:32	I wanted something simple I was thinking Evoker I wanted to do a wizard with a soldier back ground (I was thinking of taking 1 level of fighter at 2nd to provide some assistance with a bow) but if its better to get a full 20 levels in Wizard (Assuming we make it that far) then I will stick with just wizard. As for wizard hate a quick search on the net will show you alot of people aren't liking the low level wizard ... and that is what worries me. I want to be able to help in a fight and outside of a fight, and wizards generally excel at this type stuff with illusions, and divination, and evokation spells ... I'll go back and re-read the wizard ... race I was thinking elf, but even a dwarf might be interesting from the soldiering point of view, I'm guessing Humans are still one of the best choices. I will read up on your controller post.
#7 mellored May 20, 2015 5:30:14	TrentKL wrote:
#8 SterlingRat May 20, 2015 6:12:03	Based on my wizarding experience, I cast a concentration spell each encounter (Silent Image at low levels to hide my ranged allies and give them advantage, then add Phantasmal Force for neutralizing anything big, dumb and dangerous, Hypnotic Pattern for neutralizing about half of a large group, Greater Invisibility when the Rogue wants to solo an encounter or two and Polymorph when the fighter wants to do it instead, then pick up Wall of Force at Level 5... every encounter gets split in half from then on.)    Other than the concentration spell, I will throw around some cantrips for a bit of damage or maybe throw around some 1st level magic missile spells just because, keep shield, resist elements, Counterspell and Dispel Magic handy for when the opponent tries to copy my schtick, maybe throw a blindness out there for giggles. Either way... the other classes are taking an action, a bonus action and a move action every turn of every encounter. As a wizard, I cast a long spell every encounter, then one spell per turn and an occasional reaction while I try to find safe spots to keep from getting stabbed.   If you want to do stuff that matters every turn, try Warlock... they have better cantrip damage but more limited spell slots, and you will be doing things that matter every turn (bonus action to move your Hex around, action to eldrich blast). From the sound of your original post - Mello and the Kaptain are steering you right.
#9 Ashrym May 20, 2015 12:13:04	If you are looking at things like "low level wizards really do suck" on Enworld don't let that throw you off. Too often players judge a class by damage and look at things like agonizing blast or twin / quicken. Wizards are built more around variety and versatility. Evoker is the higher damage tradition but still trades off a bit because wizards have that higher degree of versatility so the better damage options come more slowly. This is because wizards are the only arcane spell caster that uses spell preparation and because they can cast rituals from their spell book without preparation. This means they are more capable of providing the right tools for the job than other arcane spell casters. If damage is important then go evoker. It's a solid choice.
#10 DemoMonkey May 20, 2015 13:07:25	"someone needs to be an arcane type"   Why do you think that?
#11 Tfuture May 21, 2015 4:21:12	We have a very similar party composition, and i play the Wizard in the party, my DM hates me, to the point hes started removing spell scrolls from the story so i dont get more spells (but that a seperate issue).   Im rocking Divination Wizard with the lucky feat, i use mainly CC abilities and the occasional damage spell... the amount of utility  a wizard has with spells like suggestion, hypnotic pattern, hold person, it automatically either doubles your party damage output or halves that of the enemies..   Wizard is a fine choice, especially if you dont focus just on blowing things up. and if your playing one of the premade modules you will be guarenteed to run into scroll drops making  you even more versatile.   Go wizard, you wont regret it and your party will love you
#12 Treantmonklvl20 May 21, 2015 6:20:09	TrentKL wrote:
#13 Mazzy May 21, 2015 7:56:38	Honestly, the warlock, sorcerer, bard, and wizard are all very good. The defining decision for you should be whether you want to be the party face or the knowledge skill guy. Your party does not have Int or Charisma, so your choice will fill many of the skills your party needs. If you are hoping to hang back in social situations, don't play the charisma classes, because your party will probably resent you for that and wizard is unmatched in knowledge skills.   That should really be the thing informing your decision.
(Reply to #13) Treantmonklvl20	Mazzy wrote:
#15 Tempest_Stormwind May 21, 2015 9:54:05	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#16 DSZ May 21, 2015 10:33:32	Divination wizard is nice. And for race you may want to go human or gnome. Especially, Forest Gnome or Deep Gnome.   And definately have a look on treantmonks guide - it is a good one! You may also look into the other wizards guide to get an additional view. I guess you can not go wrong with things both guides rate being top choices.
#17 Thaenok May 21, 2015 10:47:46	I love the wizard already. Its a perfectly capable class. Not sure what you need sold on though. Do you like magic or don't you? If you are thinking you have to be a "controller" that is a 4th edition concept. Each class can solo if the DM follows the encounter guidlines so there is no need to look at things in a "there has to be one defender, one, striker, one leader, and one controller" way. That wasn't even an issue until 4e. All other editions you can pick what you WANT. If you aren't sold on a class then play what you are sold on. 5 e gives us many things but the most important I think is choice.
(Reply to #14) Ashrym	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#19 Saeviomagy May 21, 2015 19:07:25	Just be aware that the first level of many classes is incredibly underwhelming. Some classes get their 'thing' striaght away and some seem to have to wait until level 3. I've seen it written that an official suggestion is to commence play at level 3 unless you're all newbs to the game (but I don't know who said it or where).   I would heartily recommend looking at classes as they will be at level 3 before you judge them. For example: At level 1, a fighter gets his armor and weapon proficiencies, a fighting style and second wind. At level 1, a paladin gets weapon and armor, several uses of detect evil and 5 hitpoints of healing   At this point in terms of class abilities a paladin looks like a fighter that heals less, is worse at combat, and in return might get the heeby jeebies if something supernaturally evil is there.   At level 3, a fighter gets all that plus action surge, plus either minor spellcasting and a weapon bond, combat manuevers or an expanded crit range At level 3, a paladin has a fighting style, enough healing that using it on someone else might actually be worthwhile, spellcasting, smites, immunity to disease and a channel divinity power. He's also finally sworn his oath.   At this point, the two are pretty even - the paladin has gained a lot, the fighter slightly less, and they've both ended up with their own unique flavour in their mechanics.   The wizard does something similar - his breadth and depth are directly tied to his spellbook (his main class abilities are more spell slots and slotless casting), and as he levels, that rockets upwards.   In short - look at how your class will be at level 3 and above, because level 1 is really not indicitive of how it will play.