Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Celaeno Aug 12, 2015 16:17:46	Hello all, I'm starting in a new game that will have undead as the major campaign monster theme.  As such I was interested in building an undead hunter themed character for our party and was drawn to the Oath of Devotion Paladin for most of it's class features. The DM has said that he will allow some tweaking of the class setup to keep with the theme of an undead slayer from a holy order that specializes in putting the dead to rest.     With that in mind, are there any class features that you would recommend being switched out for something else, or even better, are there spells on the Devotion list that you would switch out for something that is better for an undead destroyer, and if so, which spells would you recommend? Would a level dip to something like Ranger for the favored enemy be worth the trouble, or is there perhaps another dip somewhere that can be taken to help give a boost to the concept?     The characters will be starting at level 3 or 4 (DM hasn't fully decided yet) and as added gravy, he is assigning each character a special bonus; my paladin will have a specialized mount that will grant her the Mounted Combat feat for free (only to be used with that mount).  I was likely going to go with the great weapon fighter build as well.  Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated as I start to put this character together!
#2 GladiusLegis Aug 12, 2015 17:31:13	Definitely do NOT recommend the Ranger level. Favored Enemy is not worth it at all.   Aside from that, not a whole lot of features to improve without probably making the character overpowered. Paladins, especially Devotion, are pretty studly against undead as they are.
#3 Cyber-Dave Aug 12, 2015 18:31:15	Actually, 17 levels paladin 3 levels of ranger (slayer), with your 3rd level of ranger being used to take colossus slayer would be a very smart choice. Having "undead" as a favored enemy would also be a big boon to you. Normally, taking 1 level of ranger for a favored enemy is a pretty bad choice. If your DM has told you that you will face one specific type of enemy for most of the campaign, however, that changes. And, getting +1d8 to one attack per turn is nothing to laugh at either. Neither is getting a second fighting style, or access to "hunter's mark" from your ranger spell list. So yea, if you are planning to play a holy undead hunter, I would suggest 17 levels paladin and 3 levels ranger. Just, wait to take your ranger levels until AFTER you have earned your second attack. And, don't bother taking more than 3 levels in ranger. It isn't worth it.
#4 GladiusLegis Aug 12, 2015 18:42:35	If you do go that route, keep in mind you need STR, DEX, WIS and CHA all at 13 to qualify for that particular multiclass. So unless you rolled really well or are using a higher than normal point-buy ...
#5 Cyber-Dave Aug 12, 2015 19:05:11	GladiusLegis wrote:
#6 Kron-Karn Aug 12, 2015 19:45:26	Though vow of devotions turn the unholy makes the clerics turn undead a touch redundnt you could multiclass for destroy undead. Between those two classes you get access to pritty much every Spell with radiant damage possible. You'd probably want to go for either light or life domain. Because a claric is a full caster this gives you alot more Spell slots to fuel your smites and finally the requirements for this multiclass doesn't need Dex so it'll be a touch less MAD and totally atainable with the standard array of ability scores.
#7 GladiusLegis Aug 12, 2015 20:10:37	Destroy Undead specifically only works with the Cleric's Turn Undead, though. And for that to be effective, you need a high WIS, something that a Paladin won't be aiming for. Paladin/Cleric is honestly not all that great of an MC; Warlock, Bard and Sorcerer are all better MCs for a Paladin if you want more Smiting.   I'd just go either pure Cleric, or take Paladin to at least Lv. 11. Pure Cleric has the advantage against hordes of weaker undead, obviously. The Paladin is better against undead bosses; and at Lv. 11+ Improved Divine Smite gives them an always-available source of radiant damage, which is great because a lot of strong undead have features that get wrecked when they take radiant damage.
#8 Kron-Karn Aug 12, 2015 20:31:38	Usually what I do is pick either Wis or Cha (usually Wis) and focus more on that. P12/C8 ( P 1-6/ c 7-14/ p 15-20) is my favorite. IV played both light/devotion and a war/vengance character threw a few moduals. You have some decent utility with a wide range of spells and of course pack quite a puntch with your smites, Improved Smite and divine strikes.
#9 Celaeno Aug 12, 2015 21:57:03	Thank you all for the suggestions so far.  I should have clarified at the begining, but we will be rolling for stats.  The DM has specific plans for the game and wants the PC's to be on a higher than usual power curve.  The other expectation is that our characters will probably reach level 17-18 when the game is finished, which would effect the impact of how multiclassing would work on the character.     I do have to ask, with a ranger 3 multiclass, wouldn't Horde Breaker be a valid option as well?  Or is Colossus Slayer considered a better choice overall?   If a multiclass seems like a non-ideal option, are there thoughts on a background that could help add to the character concept?  I had thoughts of possibly a retooled Outlander background, but wasn't sure if there were some homebrewed backgrounds out and about that people knew of that could work for the character too.
#10 Yunru Aug 13, 2015 7:33:37	There's the very nice "Undead Hunter" background on page 125 (bottom right).
#11 Sorsohka Aug 13, 2015 10:33:05	from your spell list,almost all your compulsion spell (commang, compel due etc...) should be switch since many undead are immune the mind affecting spell, and the higher level ones will have a good Sve against suchs spells. Not sure what I would take in exchange, some none concentatrion (since Paladin already have too many concentration spell, between protection from evil (including undead) bless, shield of faith, divine favor and all those smite spell you don't really need a additional option) If you can create new spell, I would ask the DM if you can take the chill touch spell and change it into chill smite and gain the ability to learn a single cantrip in exchange for the lost of your mind affecting spell.   Chill smite work exactly like  Chill touch except with the mechanic of searing smite: Still a cantrip Casting time: bonus action instead of action Range: self instead of range touch atack 120ft Component: V Duration: cocentration 1 minute instead of 1 round deal 1d4 necrotic damage. The "cannot regain HP" and the "diavantage to undead attacks" portion will affect the target for 1 round (no matter of the concentration)   the damage is very low since it's in addition to the weapon (and divine smite) damage. I wa even thinking about removing the damage all together. Being a cnatrip yes you can use it once per round, but then you cannot keep your other spell activate     If your DM do not want to give you cantrip, then ask him if Chill smite can be a level 1 smite spell, that would deal 1d8 damage, and the additional effect last for 1 round +1 round per spell level used higher then 1st level)
#12 LasteEnygma Aug 13, 2015 11:19:45	A friend of mine is playing a level 16 oath of devotion paladin and let me say it does not dissapoint. That character is not fully optimized but still keeps up very well the other members of the group who have a little more cohesiveness. For fun, sure you can switch up a bit, but for an undead campaign, a pure devotion paladin has everything you need. If you went Warlock for a couple of levels you could have a couple of "bless" spell's per short rest and some fun invocations in the mix with some at will forms of damage via cantrips. This is assuming you won't be hitting 20, which in an undead campaign the paladin's capstone ability would be quite impressive.
#13 Leugren Aug 13, 2015 17:28:42	Yunru wrote:
#14 Yunru Aug 13, 2015 19:11:34	Player Handbook.
#15 Illithidbix Aug 14, 2015 15:19:33	Again, I agree, Unless I'm blind to any combinations it looks very difficult to me to create something more tailored to fighting Undead than a pure Oath of Devotion Paladin. An Oath of Vengeance has a few abilities that perhaps make it a more effective *Hunter* whilst keeping access to most of the awesome anti-undead stuff. Paladins do radiant damage, which are fully effective against all the Undead in the MM (only Angels and Coatls are resistant) and it's esp. effective against Shadows and Vampires. Ranger Not very convinced that Favoured Enemy, Horde Breaker or Colossus Slayer. (And Oath of Vengeance paladins get Hunter's Mark as a domain spell) will make up for loosing 3 levels of Paladin at any point.   Clerics Clerics do get a few cool tricks (Destroy Undead) and more spells and higher level ones earlier. I wonder if there is a point where going Cleric is more productive but can't spot it.
#16 Leugren Aug 14, 2015 16:39:26	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #16) Yunru	Leugren wrote:
#18 Celaeno Aug 14, 2015 22:13:25	Thank you to everyone who posted ideas/suggestions on this, it was great help.  After much thought and reviewing the posts, I've been convinced to just stick to the devotion paladin with no multiclass.  I'll be working with the DM to develop a custom background to give a little more 'hunter' flavor via skills and a customized feature.  Again, thanks for the comments!