Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Thank_Dog Oct 24, 2014 0:50:31	I'm sure this has already been thought of but as I was looking over a few rules I realised that I could use the Extra Attack action from a Fighter to cast Eldritch Blasts. Two Warlock levels gets the Eldritch Blast Cantrip with Agonizing Blast & Repelling Blast. So at 20th-level you'd be flinging 12d10+60 damage worth of Eldritch Blasts. Which is a bit piddly so add in 12d6 for a Hex. And just to add insult to injury, add in a weapon attack from War Mage. Actually, that's not really the biggest part of the insult. The biggest insult is that you're also pushing the target 120-ft. with no save.   Or is there something I've missed that prevents this?
#2 cowleymen Oct 24, 2014 1:05:38	Caster levels. Im assuming your taking Eldritch knight, so for three level MC into fighter, your get one caster level. So i think it might be less then 12 bolts after all your actions, but your on the right course. I dont own my own copy yet, but from what i know EK only gives you a caster level for every three levels you have in class, and im not sure how warlock spell casting works for MC
#3 Thank_Dog Oct 24, 2014 1:52:31	cowleymen wrote:
#4 spanglemaker Oct 24, 2014 1:58:08	It does look like there would or should be a fix for this. If I was running a high level game with your Eldritch Knight with 2 Warlock pact levels and a pure Warlock of level 20. I would compare the two and note that if the rules read as above the Warlocks Eldritch Blast deals more damage in the hands of a fighter.   I would check the multiclassing rules and note that the Eldritch Knight is not a full Spellcaster, whereas a Warlock is (albeit Pact magic being different). I would also look at balance issues, so Warlocks who choose to dip will have an advantage regarding Warlock features, and Fighters who dip slightly will have advantage for Fighter features.   By that I don't mean the advantage mechanic, I mean that a Fighter of level 10 who takes 2 levels of Warlock is able to cast 2nd level spells as a Eldritch Knight, plus has level 1 Pact slots. I would treat this as a 3rd level Warlock. When that same Eldritch Knight reached level 20, (Fighter 18, Warlock 2), then they can cast 3rd level spells, plus the level 1 Warlock slots. So I would rule that their Eldritch Blast was treated as 4th or 5th level Warlock, so you either get 1 or 2 Eldritch Blasts per attack (3 or 6). Now an Eldritch Knight using a standard cantrip such as Fire Bolt would have the full 17th level of 4d10 even if he chose to dip into 2 levels of Rogue instead of Warlock. So Fire Bolt with 3 attacks would be 12d10 damage.    My goal would be with my players to ensure, that they got to play the character and concept they wanted, were fun to play and balanced with their team mates so the party got the limelight. I want them to be tempted to dip, but if they chose not they did not lose out. Which is generally how I am seeing 5th edition, there seems to be a lot more balance and if you choose to get a benefit elsewhere, then you make a sacrifice somewhere else.   I hope the DMs guide can resolve things, because I love the flavour of Warlock Knights and am intending to make use of  them in a campaign I am planning which will feature orders of Warlock Knights, Eldritch Knights and Paladins in service of the Eternal Empire. Initial name for the campaign is Project Storm, what if the people in the neighbouring town were ruled by another and only they knew? What if the things you thought you knew about your world were false? If you are adventuring in the Forgotten Realms, what if the forces of good actually we're not? Llolth the benevolent, who shares with her high priestesses the truth whilst forcing them to acts of evil, because the true gods of evil won and spun a massive deception upon their followers. Whenever any act of evil occurs, then they are further empowered. An act of apparent good, done in the name of the so called good gods is an act of evil, Lolth wept when Mystra was destroyed, but it was Mystra who cursed Llolth and bound her to the demonpits.
#5 spanglemaker Oct 24, 2014 2:05:00	Eldritch Blast does go off character level, invocation level limitations are by character level as well. So if you wanted to take an invocation such as Visions of Distant Realms, it's requirement is 15th level. So taking a second or higher Warlock level at 15 would enable you to take that Invocation.
#6 Pramxnim Oct 24, 2014 2:21:19	You've missed a very fundamental thing. You cannot combine a Fighter's Extra Attack feature with Eldritch Blast. They are tied to completely different actions.   With the Extra Attack feature, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn, you get to make an extra weapon attack. The Fighter's level 11 ability lets you make one more weapon attack for a total of three weapon attacks on your turn.   With Eldritch Blast, you are using an action to Cast a spell, and that spell happens to be the cantrip Eldritch Blast. This does not interact in any way, shape or form with the Extra Attack feature. In very clear cut terms, you can not cast Eldritch Blast 3 times in a turn even if you have the Fighter level 11 feature.   As a level 15 Eldritch Knight Fighter / level 2 Warlock, you have the following options on your turn Take the Attack action and make 3 weapon attacks on your turn. Take the Cast a spell action to cast Eldritch Blast once, firing off 4 bolts for a total of 4d10 + 4xCha mod damage (if you took the Agonizing Blast invocation) You can use Action Surge, and with that extra action, perform one of the above options Assuming you cast Eldritch Blast, you can use a bonus action to make a single weapon attack. The only way to get the 12d10 + 60 + 12d6 damage you described is to be a level 17 character that's a Sorcerer/Warlock/Fighter (with at least 3 levels of Sorcerer, 2 levels of Warlock and 2 levels of Fighter). That combination allows you to cast a Quickened Eldritch Blast with your bonus action, an Eldritch Blast with your normal action and another Eldritch Blast with your extra action from Action Surge. Note that this uses Sorcery Points and a level 1 spell slot (for Hex) as well as your Action Surge, so it's definitely not something you can just use willy nilly without opportunity cost.
#7 another1 Oct 24, 2014 2:28:14	I like the idea but  even if eldritch says "Make a ranged spell ATTACK" i belive the action is still "casting a spell" while extra attack needs you to make the attack action.  Attack and cast a spell are separate in the action in combact part.  I hope you can prove me wrong tho.   p.s. sorry for my english   ninj'ed
#8 Thank_Dog Oct 24, 2014 2:34:19	Pramxnim wrote:
#9 cowleymen Oct 24, 2014 3:05:51	spanglemaker wrote:
#10 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 3:22:24	No, a quickened spell uses your bonus action, of which you only get 1. So you can't Quicken+Bonus Action weapon attack. Eldritch Knight 14/Sorcerer 4/Warlock 2, however: Cast Haste on self. Nova round: Attack action: 3 Weapon attacks + Eldritch Blast (from Haste), Action Surge and repeat. Bonus action: Quickened Eldritch Blast. That's a total of 18 attacks in a turn. Assuming you use a Crossbow and Sharpshooter, that's 6d6+90 from the weapon attacks and 12d10+60 from the Eldritch Blasts. Assuming all hit but don't crit (and that's a big assumption), that's an average of 237 damage.
#11 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 3:34:53	Yunru wrote:
#12 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 3:36:47	Okay so I'll admit I'm on mobile, can someone please post Eldritch Blast and Haste?
#13 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 3:40:46	Pramxnim wrote:
#14 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 3:41:59	Yunru wrote:
#15 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 3:44:56	Thank_Dog wrote:
#16 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 3:52:50	Damn that's a real shame. So Champion Fighter 3/Warlock 2/Sorcerer 15 is still probably the best "Beam Spam" build. 12 attacks on an Action Surge, with Hex (assuming you have already cast Hex. Round 1 may drop to 8 attacks). And then there's the Improved Critical from Champion.
#17 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 4:02:38	Yunru wrote:
#18 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 4:09:27	Improved Critical increases your chance of getting at least one critical during a Nova by 25.8% (from 46% to 71.8%), weigh that as you will. Of course it becomes more worthwhile if WotC release some on-crit magic items.
#19 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 4:09:16	Thank_Dog wrote:
#20 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 4:18:45	Yunru wrote:
#21 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 4:22:57	And now I am picturing a Monk/Sorcerer duet. The monk runs up to them, punches them and Stuns them. Cue Sorcerer bombardment with advantage. In other news a true Sorcerer Nova would be using Quickened Scorching Rays, rather than Eldritch Blasts.
#22 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 4:25:10	Probably of criting at least once with advantage is 92%. So yes, Monk Sorcerer duet crits a lot. O.o
#23 Setzer_G Oct 24, 2014 4:30:19	Improved Critical for Champion is weapon attacks only, not spell attacks.
#24 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 4:33:21	Damn. Then Sorcerer 15/Warlock 3/Fighter 2.
#25 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 4:33:43	Yunru wrote:
#26 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 4:34:47	Setzer_G wrote:
#27 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 4:44:27	Yunru wrote:
#28 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 4:50:24	For most of the game Warlock 3 is better because Scorching Ray is a second level spell. Personally I'd go dragon because I like the avenging angel image raining down fire from afar.
#29 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 5:00:02	Yunru wrote:
#30 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 8:15:16	Yunru wrote:
#31 IxidorRS Oct 24, 2014 8:36:23	Corran21 wrote:
#32 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 8:57:59	IxidorRS wrote:
#33 IxidorRS Oct 24, 2014 9:07:02	Corran21 wrote:
#34 austinmonster Oct 24, 2014 9:10:18	There's a lot of bonkers stuff at Lv20.  Druids become functionally immortal with a never-ending supply of temporary hit points.
#35 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 9:17:17	IxidorRS wrote:
#36 Corran21 Oct 24, 2014 9:17:56	austinmonster wrote:
#37 IxidorRS Oct 24, 2014 9:28:43	Corran21 wrote:
#38 Danny_Montanny Oct 25, 2014 9:10:08	Fighter 2/Rogue 3/Sorcerer 15 will get you a massive surprise nova round. You can get an 8th and 7th level casting of Scorching Ray off, with automatic crits. That's 17 rays, with advantage on the attack rolls, doing 4d6 + 5 fire damage each. If your DM will allow a Subtle Hex (gained through Magic Initiate) before initiative is rolled, it shouldn't remove you from hiding as there's no outward sign and you'd just be standing there doing nothing but holding your M components, then you could add 2d6 necrotic damage to each ray. So that would potentially be 102d6 + 85. If not, 68d6 + 85 is nothing to sneeze at. Maybe there's 2 targets and your DM will let you Twin the rays for a total of 136d6 + 170. Maybe you can get a Twinned Hex off without alerting them to your presence and add another 68d6 to the mix. Lots of maybes, but that's theorycrafting for ya.
#39 Yunru Oct 25, 2014 9:25:35	Actually if you still have Hex running you can just Hex a new target as a bonus action. You're not recasting it so you're not limited to cantrips.
(Reply to #39) Danny_Montanny	Yunru wrote:
#41 Dyndrilliac Nov 01, 2014 12:34:19	The average damage of a completely optimized Eldritch Blast at level 20 (including damage from Hex) is only 56. A greatsword wielding Bladelock could do better than that with only 2 attacks, so I'd be more interested in using those bonus attacks from Fighter for melee as opposed to casting Eldritch Blast anyway.
#42 mellored Nov 01, 2014 20:01:25	Dyndrilliac wrote: