Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 whagberg Sep 10, 2015 15:22:47	My daughter wants to play a water bender using a water genasi as the race.  Any suggestions how to accomplish this?  Class, level progression, feats, multiclass options.  All are welcome.
#2 Danny_Montanny Sep 10, 2015 17:32:42	Way of the Elements Monk.
#3 whagberg Sep 10, 2015 17:52:31	Just wondering if my OP is just a blank box to anyone else or if it actually showed my question?   *edit* I just figured out the problem.   Thanks
#4 Jordan175 Sep 10, 2015 17:53:58	For all the things a waterbender does on the TV show, the Monk is really not the best class as it cannot heal others and has only very limited water control options.   I would recomend a Druid (Circle of the land). If you know about Genasi, you should know about the Elemental Evil player's companion. http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/elementalevil_playerscompanion Spells like shape water, ice knife and fog cloud should be go-to options. You don't even need to be a water genasi to be a waterbender, but its up to her.
(Reply to #4) whagberg	Jordan175 wrote:
#6 daspian Sep 10, 2015 18:16:40	Way of the Four Elements - Water IS the best option for a waterbender...despite not having the ability to heal like in the TV show... ALL the other options are still there, the oriental theme, the martial arts, the iconic water-bending (its the epitomy of the archetype)...   if you still want the "healing" portion of it, multi-class to a Druid Circle of the Land for some spells, or to a Cleric Domain: Nature.   But Monk is your best bet.   you also might want to homebrew some rules... Way of the 4 Elements is considered extremely underpowered compared to not just the other monk archetypes, but overall.   google some solutions or come up with some of your own, one of the solutions i came up with, (amongst other errata/class changes) was to add a separate pool point for Elemental Monks to draw on in addition to their Ki Points; Called Elemental Points... these points however could only be used to cast Elemental Spells, in all other forms however they act like Ki Points are are regained in the same manner.
(Reply to #6) whagberg	daspian wrote:
#8 daspian Sep 10, 2015 18:50:43	np, if you wish to check my homebrew content i have some of it posted here: jmdibenedetto.wix.com/theva   go to the application page > class changes/erratas, there should be the changes there for elemental monks i have for my campaign.   i also have some changes incoming for the ranger etc. this is all stuff i use for my own campaign i DM.   anyways, hope your daughter enjoys her game as a Water Monk, and i hope she names her character name Korra, =P
#9 guachi Sep 10, 2015 18:57:44	Like the rest have said - Way of the Elements Monk. Underpowered is less important than fun to play. Because if she's having fun playing, she'll keep playing. And in any case, the real issue with power level is in comparison to the other characters at the table. My current table has four PCs and none of them took really powerful builds but they do really like them.
(Reply to #9) whagberg	guachi wrote:
#11 imaginari Sep 10, 2015 19:44:42	One option that would increase the fun factor and help balance the monk is regaining ki points after a short rest instead of a long. In my mind, the more elemental stuff you can do, the more fun it will be.
#12 daspian Sep 10, 2015 20:40:00	monks already gain Ki Points after short rests.
#13 Slagger_the_Chuul Sep 10, 2015 20:44:41	imaginari wrote:
#14 daspian Sep 10, 2015 20:53:12	yea, Elemental Monks needed some love, that's why i did the changes i did as i posted earlier on that link, alot of them really made a difference and i'm all for Fun > Metagaming... but sometimes when you want to be in the splotlight too when you see your barbarian friend cleaving through hordes of monsters and you're just sitting in the corner sulking cause you cant' do jack.
#15 pdegan2814 Sep 10, 2015 20:55:34	whagberg wrote:
#16 TomeOfTricksterBlood Sep 10, 2015 22:59:35	Also one thing you can do is give acess to additional spells. The forumla is simple 1 + spell level is the ki cost. So allow her to cast cure wounds through water and ki. For other thematic spells that fit you can have her find a master to teach her the unique techniquie and have her train during downtime and it be an option availble to her from then on when she selects her WotFE powers.
#17 jaappleton Sep 10, 2015 23:00:22	The folks at Giant in the Playground crowdsourced a homebrew fix for the Elements Monk. A quick Google search should direct you to it.
#18 daspian Sep 11, 2015 0:16:38	mmm just go through the wizard/sorcerer spell list and look for all the "elemental" themed spells, also the Elemental Evil companion module has a plethora of new elemental spells that should be updated and added to the Elemental Monks list... it's like a gold mine for them.
(Reply to #15) whagberg	pdegan2814 wrote:
(Reply to #16) whagberg	TomeOfTricksterBlood wrote:
(Reply to #17) whagberg	jaappleton wrote:
(Reply to #8) whagberg	daspian wrote:
(Reply to #8) whagberg	daspian wrote:
#24 Yunru Sep 11, 2015 5:18:34	I'm going to say not-Monk. No seriously, oriental theme asides (which any character can have), any spellcaster (except maybe the Warlock) can manipulate water better, bigger and more often.
(Reply to #24) whagberg	Yunru wrote:
#26 Yunru Sep 11, 2015 5:53:00	Cold Dragon Sorcerer works, although really it's all in the spell selection: if you can find enough water themed class spells then go for it. Mutliclasding limits your high-end spells, but gives you an increased variety of low/medium-end spells.
#27 Georlik Sep 11, 2015 6:19:44	Way of the Elements Monk is basicly built for that. I do not expect your daughter to optimize (seeng that she took Genasi without considering her class first). If the flavour is what she is aiming for, just take an Elemental Monk and give her a Healer as the first Feat of choice (refluff it as using "special water" instead of medical kit and you are set). I'm not sure if she even wants to heal though, maybe she is striving to emulate Korra not Katara.
#28 Mechatarrasque Sep 11, 2015 7:26:06	I would weigh the value of the water genasi against  playing a variant human with magic initiate (druid) for cure wounds (or ice knife if she doesn't care about healing), with shape water as a cantrip.   Of course, giving everyone a bonus feat at level 1 would probably be a popular solution.
#29 Elfcrusher Sep 11, 2015 7:32:05	whagberg wrote:
#30 Slagger_the_Chuul Sep 11, 2015 7:39:41	Mechatarrasque wrote:
(Reply to #13) imaginari	Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
(Reply to #5) ZickZak	whagberg wrote:
#33 WorBlade Sep 11, 2015 13:27:26	You might be able to reskin current spells to be water insead of whatever the original effects are with the same besic in game effects as listed to do a Sorcerer water bender. That way you semi-home brew it, without affecting the built in balance of the spell effects.
#34 Miladoon Sep 11, 2015 14:07:04	Stats:STR10, DEX14, CON12, INT14, WIS15, CHA10 1)Fighter - Great Weapon Fighting 2)Monk - Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense 3)Druid - Thorn Whip, Shillelagh, Cure Wounds, Fog Cloud, Create Water, Healing Word, Purify Water 4)Fighter - Action Surge 5)Eldritch Knight3 (EK) - Weapon Bond, 2 Cantrips (I choose Dancing Lights and Frost Bite), Grease (Conj), Shield (Abj), Protection from Evil/Good(Abj) 6)EK4 - Abilit Score Improvement (ASI) WIS or DEX, Magic Missile(Evo) 7)EK5 - Extra Attack 2 8)EK6 - Abilit Score Improvement (ASI) WIS or DEX 9)EK7 -  War Magic, Misty Step 10)EK8 - Abilit Score Improvement (ASI) WIS or DEX, Hold Person (Ench; Bloodbending) or maybe Spider Climb(Trans), or Alter Self(Trans; Natural Weapons) 11)EK9 - Indomitable 12)EK10 - Eldritch Strike. Blade Ward, Shatter (Evo) 13)EK11 - Extra Attack 3, Snilloc' Snowball Swarm (Evo) 14)EK12 - Abilit Score Improvement (ASI) WIS or DEX   Spell re-skin Alter Self - Water Boxing or Ice Claws Blade Ward - Water Sheath Cure Wounds - Living Stream Dancing Lights - Northern Lights Grease - Ice Slick Shield - Ice Shield Shillelagh - Spider Climb - Ice Hook (for climbing) Thorn Whip - Ice Whip Protection from Evil/Good - Water Ward Purify Water - Bend Soup Magic Missile - Ice Bullets
(Reply to #34) whagberg	Miladoon wrote:
(Reply to #35) bid	whagberg wrote:
#37 whagberg Sep 11, 2015 19:47:02	She said she's open to human with a feat instead. If I do that what then?
#38 Miladoon Sep 11, 2015 20:20:32	If she wants to dump STR or CHA it should work fine.  Maybe go WIS14 DEX15 INT13 CON12 before racials. With racials, WIS15, DEX15, INT13, CON14. I might take DEX Resilience or WIS Resilience but along the lines of having 18s in DEX and WIS by level 14. 6) 1DEX, 1WIS 8) 2DEX 10) 1INT 1DEX 14) 1DEX Reselient
(Reply to #37) bid	whagberg wrote:
(Reply to #38) whagberg	Miladoon wrote:
#41 whagberg Sep 12, 2015 5:41:09	She went human fighter with magic initiate druid. Is it better to do GWM (though I still question dumping STR), Pole arm Master, or Lucky for her next feat? I'm thinking Druid dip is no longer necessary. Shillelagh, Thornwhip, and Healing Touch are covered with Magic initiate. Though one heal per long rest may not be a good thing, especially since there is only a bard as a healer otherwise. Thoughts?
#42 jaappleton Sep 12, 2015 6:06:22	As Fighter, she gets Second Wind to help keep herself upright and Action Surge to help finish enemies quickly.    Shillelagh allows her to use Wisdom to attack with the Quarterstaff, meaning Strength becomes useless for her attacks. With high Dex, she'd be utilizing Medium or Light armor, making Strength a non-factor there, too. The only thing she'd need it for is Athletics, but for a lot of things, you can make the argument that Acrobatics can be used for it. Not all, of course, but for a lot of it.   Thornwhip gives her the long range ability, possibly even pulling flying enemies down, or across traps and other hazards.        For the Bard, heavily suggest this: Start lv1 as a Life Cleric. They get Heavy Armor, and it boosts their healing with all spells, not just Cleric spells. It's absolutely worth giving some serious consideration to. Switch to Bard at lv2 and continue that way.
(Reply to #41) bid	whagberg wrote:
(Reply to #43) Yunru	bid wrote:
(Reply to #44) bid	Yunru wrote:
#46 Undrhil Sep 12, 2015 16:50:50	If you take Polearm Master, you won't need the level dip of Monk, since you can attack with Shillelagh (Quarterstaff) and make the bonus action attack from Polearm Master.
#47 whagberg Sep 12, 2015 17:20:30	We played today and my bard swapped to Cleric. Healing handled. Keeping heal for flavor and what if. I thought monk was for unarmored combat?
(Reply to #47) bid	whagberg wrote:
#49 Miladoon Sep 12, 2015 18:48:31	One minor dete about Misty Step at 7.  You will have to DM fiat that.  It is a conjuration spell.  One limitation of the EK is spell selection.  It gets the squeeze even more if you are trying to make a water bender theme out of it.   But there are other ways to do it.  GWF was for quarterstaff and DEX, which was pointed out earlier.  If you go armor, than dump monk all together.  Personally, I would take a level of druid before I blew a feat slot on Magic Initiate.  Dueling Fighting Style could also work if you had a club in one hand for Shillelagh and had Ice Claws (Alter Self) cast for your unarmored strikes.  But that wouldn't come until level 8 because the EK limitations.   Yeah, don't go Bard.
#50 whagberg Sep 12, 2015 20:37:59	Would it be better to go unarmored or med armor? As of now she wears a chain shirt. If she dips monk next level she loses 1 AC but also loses the weight. 15 Dex and Wis. When she gets to add at fighter 4th though she'll increase both to +3 and do better without unless she has magic armor then. And with a 8 strength it seems odd thematically.
(Reply to #50) bid	whagberg wrote:
(Reply to #51) whagberg	bid wrote:
#53 whagberg Sep 13, 2015 9:15:11	Besides I told the players that nothing was completely set until about 4th level. May have her change those numbers around. I know that the first encounter ended very easily. If they dominate the next couple like that I'll start beefing the bad guys up a bit.
(Reply to #53) ZickZak	5e Waterbender (Refluffed Warlock with minor changes)   Hit Points   Hit Dice: 1d8 per Waterbender level Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per Waterbender level after 1st   Proficiencies   Armor: None (gets in the way of somatic components of bending) Weapons: Simple weapons Tools: None Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma Skills: Choose two from Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Religion, and Stealth   Water Bending   At 1st level you have discovered your innate ability to command the elements through a link between martial arts, magic and will power. All spells you cast have their effects changed to water-based effects, including its damage. All the following damage types are unchanged aside from their description. Spells that do necrotic damage involve leaching water from the bodies of living beings. Spells that do force damage involve the sheer magical force you place into your blasts dealing the damage. Cold damage comes from the freezing temperatures of the water you attack with. Slashing damage comes from pressurized water blades. Bludgeoning damage is the force of thousands of liters of water crushing your enemy. Piercing damage is needle sharp ice shards launched with pinpoint accuracy.   However, spells that do acid, poison, radiant, thunder, lightning or fire damage no longer deal those damage types. Your mastery of water in its different forms allows you to alternate between slashing, piercing, bludgeoning and cold damage at your choice when casting these spells. The damage type is chosen when the spell is learned.   Elemental Prowess   A waterbender practices extensively with his element, learning to understand it as if it were a part of himself. As this understanding grows, the Waterbender is able to apply his waterbending techniques to achieve unbelievable results. However, these complex uses of bending are more draining than the simpler techniques, and require more of the Waterbender’s ki. (As warlock’s Pact magic, but casting attribute is Wisdom).   Thus, Eldritch Blast will become the generic “Water Blast” for the Waterbender, reflavored to look and feel appropriate. Therefore the Waterbender could strike his enemy with blasts of pressurized water or shards of ice. The damage type remains force for this spell. As with Eldritch Blast, the Water Bender would gain additional “blasts” at 5th, 11th, and 17th, reflecting his increased speed and strength in bending which allows him to fire off more blasts.     Further, most spells can be refluffed in order to make sense with regards to water bending. Dominate person could be bloodbending; stunning, incapacitating, or restraining effects could be thought of as freezing the enemy; burning hands could launch ice shards instead of a blast of flame. Hex could mean that you leave lingering ice crystals on the target enemy and every time he is struck, these ice crystals leech more humidity from the target’s body, dealing necrotic damage each time he’s struck and decreasing his ability to move quickly (dexterity). Even Power Word Kill could be a nefarious bloodbending technique that pulls all blood out of a target.   Bending Forms   You have learned certain forms that allow you to achieve unbelievable feats through your Waterbending. (The bending forms will essentially be Eldritch Invocations, though some have been removed or changed in fluff or function.)   Intuitive Blast (Agonizing Blast) – Increased understanding and feel for the flow of water allows the Waterbender to more effectively channel his water blasts or ice shards. The Waterbender may add his Wisdom modifier to the damage his Water Blast (Eldritch Blast) deals on hit. Flowing Defense (Armor of Shadows) – A waterbender mimics the flow of a river in combat. Attacks seem to slide by him and he is never where you expect him. Water Column (Ascendant Step) – A spinning column of water lifts the Waterbender into the air. Blood Bender (Bewitching Whispers) – By bending the blood within an enemy, you can cause them to do as you command. Blindsight (Devil’s Sight) – By simply focusing on the movement of water vapor in the air and the water that resides in every living being, the Waterbender is aware of all that goes on around him. This grants the Bender blindsight out to 30 ft. Magic Attunement (Eldritch Sight) – As water conducts electricity, so too does it conduct magic. You may sense magic in any object touched by water, or even water vapor in the environment. Woven Blast (Eldritch Spear) –  By weaving your water blasts into a thicker strand, you may extend the range of your Water Blast up to 300 feet. Eyes of the Rune Keeper Ice Armor (Fiendish Vigor) – You have learned to surround your body with minute ice crystals that protect you from damage. Heat Leeching Strike (Lifedrinker) – When you hit a creature with your unarmed strikes, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) as you leech moisture from his body. One with the Waters (Master of Myriad Forms) – (Cast time, duration and concentration as Alter Self) By creating a pocket where water cannot enter, the waterbender may “breathe” underwater. Additionally, using water currents to push him along, the Waterbender has a swim speed equal to his land speed. Finally, by controlling surface tension, the Waterbender may walk on water as though on solid ground. Water Elemental (Minions of Chaos) -  The water bender forces a pool of water into a powerful Water Elemental. Clinging Ice Shards (Mire the Mind) – You chill the ambient water around your target, slowing their movements and thoughts. Misty Visions Fleet of Foot (NEW) – Grants +10 to movement speed. Stacks with Winter Stride. Leaping Geyser (Otherworldly Leap) – A blast of water pushes the Waterbender up or forward, allowing him to jump higher or further than he normally could. Smashing Wave (Repelling Blast) – Your water blasts strike with such force that they push even the mightiest enemies back. Ki Block (Sign of Ill Omen) – You may use your knowledge of Ki to block an enemy’s Ki, harming his body in specific ways. Pounding Surf Strike (Thirsting Blade) – As the surf strikes the coast over and over again, you have learned to strike one additional time whenever you take the Attack action. Visions of Distant Realms – Communing with the spirits of water allows you to communicate with them and gather information on distant lands. True Sight (Witch Sight) – Using the purity of water as a lens, you are able to see through magic and to true self.   Master Techniques (Mystic Arcanum)   After much training, a Waterbender is able to control the pinnacles of Waterbending known as Master Techniques. These technique are much too complex and taxing to be used more than once per day.   Masterful Recovery   By refocusing your internal energies and meditating for 1 minute, you may regain enough Ki to use all of your Elemental Prowess once again. (This ability will functionally work as the Warlock’s Eldritch Master, though the beseeching to his patron will take the form of a rapid meditation.)   Southern Tribe Style   Waterbenders of the Southern Water Tribe have a specific Style of Waterbending that relies on quick movement, counterattacks and a destructive Ice-based technique. (Mix of Great Old One and Fiend archetypes. Additional spell list should be based on Fiend but refluffed to cold / necrotic / piercing damage).   Level 1: Winter Stride – Southern Tribe Waterbenders ignore any difficult terrain related to snow, water, mud, or plants. Additionally, they are adept at marching long distances quickly, and gain a 10 foot bonus to movement speed. Level 6: Ebb and Flow (functionally Entropic Ward) – The waterbender bends, weaves and adapts like water, causing enemy attacks to miss and allowing him to quickly counterattack the undefended enemy. Level 10: Elemental Resilience (functionally Fiendish Resilience) – You adapt your defenses using ice, water, or water vapor to grant you damage resistance to one type of damage. Level 14: Ice Tomb – Upon landing a melee attack, you surround your target in a globe of water, which begins to freeze and constrict simultaneously. The ice is completely impenetrable until the end of your next turn, when it finally shatters and deals 10d10 cold and necrotic damage to the target. (functionally Hurl Through Hell, but with Cold Damage).