Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bishopcruz Sep 05, 2014 16:02:07	Ok, we have a Bard who is looking to go into being the "rogue" role for the party and he's considering dipping into AT for the extra cantrips, skills, and sneak attack along with Ranged Legerdemain. By Level 20 he'd be losing what amounts to 2 Spellcasting levels, and 1 stat upgrade.   Another option would be to take a couple of levels of warlock, though IMO, the synergy isn't as good there.   The final option of course is to go straight Bard. That gives access to spells earlier, and while everything seems to balance out by Level 20, it seems that you would be behind a bit during the earliest squishier levels.   What do you guys think?
#2 Kentus Sep 05, 2014 16:10:41	Since you can do the most stuff the rogue did in the prevoius editions by simply choosing the criminal background, you might just roll with a full-fletched bard. The difference in "rogue skills" won't really matter.
#3 wills2009 Sep 05, 2014 16:25:18	Yeah don't worry too much about rogues for skills, bards actually get more and get expertise just like them.   The only thing the rogue gets now is expertise sooner (doesnt matter unless you go full rogue) and the ability to expertise their theives tools. Otherwise bard is just as good for "theif skills"
#4 bishopcruz Sep 05, 2014 16:26:50	Right, but it does also give another level of expertise, again some more cantrips, and RL which could be useful. Also, if you go Valor Bard archer you could get a sneak attack of 2d6 pretty easily every round. The question is, is it worth giving up bard progression for it at early levels. Also remember that with skills you can pick another skill if you already know the one you get from a feat or MC no? That just makes the bard even more of a skill monkey.
#5 woif Sep 05, 2014 16:28:15	Rogue and Warlock are probably the best option to dip as a sneaky style bard, Warlock has some really nice invocations that will make 2-4 levels a worthy investment (4 to grab the stat bump) not to mention book pact gives you access to some rituals which would fit the concept nicely. I love the AT subclass and the trickery you can pull off with the invisible mage hand can be great depending on the campaign theme, but you have to use weapons to get the bonuses from sneak attack. If you go Lore bard warlock is probably slightly better, and if you go Valor bard then rogue is probably better.
#6 7he_professor Sep 05, 2014 16:35:55	bishopcruz wrote:
(Reply to #6) Ashrym	7he_professor wrote:
#8 Ashrym Sep 05, 2014 21:56:19	bishopcruz wrote:
(Reply to #6) bishopcruz	7he_professor wrote:
(Reply to #9) Ashrym	bishopcruz wrote:
#11 BringBackRavenloft Sep 06, 2014 21:32:55	These sorts of threads make me so sad. When did 'character development' turn into maximum optimization of dice rolling? What would be the best choice for your character on a personal level? What would be the most fun or interesting choice?
#12 crabcrouton Sep 06, 2014 22:16:30	BringBackRavenloft wrote:
#13 BringBackRavenloft Sep 06, 2014 22:22:09	No need to get defensive. You have your perspective and I have mine. We're both entitled to discuss them.