Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Leugren Jan 03, 2015 8:45:24	I want to create a character that would best complement the following 3rd-level party, so I thought I'd solicit some advice from the good folks on these forums.  Some of the existing players are pretty sensitive about their respective schticks, and I don't really want to step on their toes.  The guy who plays the fighter/warlock is particularly prickly about owning his "space", and I believe he sees himself as the party arcanist. That's rather unfortunate, because, IMHO, this party looks like it could use a wizard.  The current party composition is as follows:   1. Lightfoot Halfling Rogue[Thief] 3 2. Half-Elf Fighter 1/ Warlock 2 3. Half-Elf Druid[Circle of the Moon] 3 4. Half-Orc Barbarian[Path of the Berserker] 3 5. Wood Elf Ranger[Hunter] 3 w/ Archery Style 6. Dragonborn Cleric[Life Domain] 3   The front line of the party is generally comprised of the Barbarian, the Druid wildshaped into a Dire Wolf, and the Cleric, who has an AC of 19.  The Rogue, the Ranger, and the Warlock generally snipe away from the backranks with ranged attacks.  Healing is provided mostly by the Cleric with the Druid supplementing as needed.   If there is anything else you need to know, just ask away!   Thanks in Advance,   --Leugren
#2 Yunru Jan 03, 2015 9:07:54	Between the Druid, Ranger, Cleric and Warlock I'd say there's enough spellcasting.   I'd say go with whatever you want.   EDIT: Also **** that Fighter/Warlock guy, he's probably the least arcane of all the above. He can try and claim he's the arcane guy but he'd be wrong.
#3 mellored Jan 03, 2015 9:06:15	I think you need some AoE and utility.  Preferably friendly AoE.   So probably evoker wizard.  Though a light cleric can also work. After that, i suggest a lore bard.
#4 Mr_Joshua Jan 03, 2015 9:35:09	If the warlock player is really set against having a wizard you could go with bard. You'd get the utility you need out of it without threatening his spell slinging too much and make the rest of the party more awesome.
#5 OrwellianHaggis Jan 03, 2015 9:39:54	Sorcerer. Wild magic sorcerer. And always, always stand next to the fighter/warlock when casting.   Joking! Just joking!   I'd say fighter 3 (battle master), or bard, if you wanted to avoid duplicating classes. But with so many classes covered you're going to struggle to find a character concept you like playing.
#6 Yunru Jan 03, 2015 9:49:20	Be an Oathbreaker 8/Blade'lock 12. You don't overshadow the Warlock/Fighter because you're not a low-leveled arcanist, you're a high level balde-swinger :P   What? Oh, you wanted a level 3 character? Be Batman. Always. Monk'd fit nice.
(Reply to #5) Koetsu	OrwellianHaggis wrote:
#8 Ashrym Jan 03, 2015 10:49:34	I dunno. A rogue, druid and ranger provide a lot of utility. A warlock, druid, cleric, and ranger will likely cover AoE fairly well if they need it. A bard can add inspiration, skills not already prominent in the group, and spells that aren't commonly taken; kind of like cementing in the cracks. A paladin gives another melee guy to stand up front with the others for additional healing and buffing, and the key addition to the group is adding auras to help protect your other front line characters, possibly with a protection style. The other option not mentioned that might come in handy is the open hand monk adding combat maneuvers, stunning strikes, and eventually save or die capability. A bard, defensive paladin, or open hand monk can each add strong contributions and still have their own thing without strong direct competition with other PC's in the group. My 2 cents.
#9 mellored Jan 03, 2015 11:03:00	moon druid and life cleric probably doesn't have AoE. ranger's do, but that's 1 class, and not frendly. and he has extra single target damage. druids and clerics come with utility, so it's not quite a huge deal not bring more. and i feel 3 is enough of a front line 4 is going to get it clogged up too much IMO. so yea, i'm sticking with wizard, or bard.
#10 Leugren Jan 03, 2015 12:22:36	Thanks to everyone for all of the great advice!  I am prone to agree with @mellored that the party's biggest deficit right now is the lack of AoE.
#11 Ashrym Jan 03, 2015 12:39:54	All druids have AoE's. The moon druid might not be using it but just needs to prep it and being in the front allows better opportunity for more targets. A wizard or bard specifically for AoE would still be behind the front line if the paladin would but the paladin can work around that with a reach weapon. The warlock also has AoE potential already and the cleric gets it at 5th level with spiritual guardians as well. The issue with a wizard isn't that it's a bad option; it competes directly with the warlock's perception of being the team arcanist, and all it really adds is shatter as an option, and fireball if the warlock isn't fiend patron. Like I said a second ago, reach weapons overcome crowding but an extra frontline PC can help bottleneck wider areas and the auras are worthwhile. A paladin also doubles up buffing ability with the cleric that would normally be restricted by concentration mechanics. Bards and paladins are always useful additions to a group that's covered a lot of bases. The open hand monk idea is just a variation on battlemaster but with more mobility, actual stunning ability, and save or die is very niche in this addition so worth the mention.
#12 Yunru Jan 03, 2015 12:50:28	Crowding frontlines isn't an issue, you can move into ally's spaces.
#13 mellored Jan 03, 2015 12:53:31	Evoker wizards can fireball without hitting allies. And with 3 In melee, that's pretty useful.
(Reply to #13) Ashrym	mellored wrote:
#15 mellored Jan 03, 2015 17:35:04	Nothing inherently wrong with a paladin or monk. The party's big enough that he can play whatever he wants. and yes, wizard steps on the warlocks toes, but honestly that's kinda a crummy thing.
#16 Ashrym Jan 03, 2015 18:34:06	I would not have disputed a wizard or sorcerer as opposed to a bard or paladin if it weren't for this part of the OP.  Leugren wrote:
#17 Leugren Jan 03, 2015 19:17:42	Ashrym wrote:
#18 Miladoon Jan 03, 2015 20:57:13	Mtn Dwarf Necromancer/Noble Knight.  Yes, technically a wizard but convince your brother that wading into battle with a battleaxe and a skeleton crew is your tribute to the old warlord class.  Spells like False Life, Shield, Magic Weapon should keep your PC until you get to 6th level when you start bringing along your boney buddies.
(Reply to #17) Ashrym	Leugren wrote:
#20 Swamp_slug Jan 04, 2015 4:08:03	There are a lot of good suggestions already but it does look like you need some AoE.   Since the Fighter/Warlock is your brother, I would first suggest talking to him before you decide your character as your posts suggest that you are basing your decision on your own deductions of the situation. Ask him what "space" he thinks he occupies within the party and if he thinks that a <insert character here> would step on his toes. He may be fine with it. While it is ultimately your character, if certain players are prickly about niche protection then it is worth discussing the situation with them to gauge how much room you have to manoeuvre.
#21 Leugren Jan 04, 2015 4:35:14	Ashrym wrote:
#22 Leugren Jan 04, 2015 4:29:12	Swamp_slug wrote:
#23 Yunru Jan 04, 2015 4:40:08	Personally I'd go Oathbreaker. Getting powerful abilities early aside, you can also ressurect dead foes to fight for you. Eventually.
#24 mellored Jan 04, 2015 9:22:09	If your avoiding a wizard...   Light clerics get AoE's, including fireball and their friendly channel divinity, and they arn't arcanits. Tempest clerics get smaller AoE's.  Though more burst damage then the light cleric.  They get ally friendly destructive wave as well. Lore bard can pick up AoE's (fireball, destructive wave) as well, plus their support options like hynotic pattern and insperation.  Though they might be considered "arcanist".   Otherwise, a polearm master paladin does just fine.  Not any AoE's untill high level with destructive wave, but it's not neccicaraly a bad thing for your party to have a weakness. It gives you something to be afraid of, or at least forces the druid to not shape shift.    As for what type, i suggest ancient.
#25 Leugren Jan 04, 2015 13:47:48	Thanks for the additional advice, @Yunru and @mellored.  I really appreciate it.
#26 raleel Jan 04, 2015 14:27:01	First, sicne he's your brother, you should just punch him and give him a wedgie. At least thats what I hear brothers do in the case of disagreements. I know if my brother in law (closest I have to a brother) got all upset about another arcanist, I'd do that.    Barring that, yea, I agree with the talking to him. I also think straight up wizard. For starters, you have no int based guys. You have potential for most of the skills covered, you have a solid front line, you have solid healing. If this was 4e I might say a warlord but there is not as much of that. Wizard is the best choice. He's going to be weaker up front than the fighter/warlock, he's going to cover utility that is not covered by anyone else, he's on a different spell casting cycle than the warlock.   Dont give him a big charisma, and focus on stuff that is not the warlocks strong suit. Go with sleep, hold person, Phantasmal forces, etc. you can even do it as an evoker... The powers for the schools don't really force you to take all of your spells like that.   Leverage that big wizard flexibility. Warlocks play more like X-Men.
#27 Ashrym Jan 04, 2015 17:03:19	Pole arm master let's you fight staff and shield to keep a bonus attack, or give up the shield for reach as needed with another weapon. You can either focus on great weapon master with it or save the feat and mix'n'match both depending on which is more beneficial at the time. Just select a fighting style that matches your approach. I don't think any subclass of paladin is a bad choice but agree with oath of ancients in this case. Aura of warding to go with aura of protection is nice for your front line. It also gives ice storm earlier than destructive wave, which has twice the range of fireball. The druid has ice storm earlier and the ranger can take conjure barrage earlier for more total area covered than fireball or ice storm but if you do have an AoE concern that is more AoE. Edit: If you really want more AoE then try and get the group on board with the ranger using poison on his arrows for volley attacks. It ups the damage for financial cost, even to big burst with nice expensive purple worm poison.
#28 Leugren Jan 05, 2015 3:43:39	Ashrym wrote:
#29 mellored Jan 05, 2015 6:13:27	Oh, and clerics get spirit guardian.  Pretty nice ally friendly AoE.  Works nicely with the light cleric.
#30 SleepsInTraffic Jan 05, 2015 8:05:12	As soon as I read the list my brain cried out monk.  Go something strange with it though like a tiefling monk.
#31 Leugren Jan 05, 2015 11:46:24	Thanks for all the advice, folks.  I think I've got it narrowed down now to a couple of choices thanks to your inputs.  I am currently leaning towards an Oath of the Ancients glaive-wielding paladin.
#32 Zaruthustran Jan 06, 2015 10:57:26	That's what I was going to suggest. Oath of Ancients paladin. Such a fun, flavorful class.   Maybe give this a read: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?401529-roleplaying-the-Oath-of-the-Ancients   Other recommendation was going to be Light cleric. Flaming Sphere, Fireball, + cleric AOEs. And everyone appreciates more healing. Specifically, I'd suggest a Human Fighter 1 (Great Weapon Fighting style) / Cleric 2 (Light domain) with Polearm Master. High Str, High Wis, good Con. Platemail and halberd. Solves your party's lack of AOE, doesn't step on toes, can use the halberd to make attacks even with crowded battlefield.
#33 Leugren Jan 06, 2015 11:47:55	Zaruthustran wrote: