The thread title is meant to be rhetorical.
How are we supposed to handle starting wealth for higher level characters when we don't have basic magic item prices?
Both as a player and as a GM, I'm at a loss for how I should handle magical items when creating characters of higher than 1st-level. How do I keep character power levels consistent with one another when the same item could cost 500gp for one character, and 5,000gp for another? Neither the table with the random starting funds nor the table with the price ranges for magical items in the DMG help me much.
As a player, it just kills me that one table might accept my character's gear while another will leave me begging for scraps. As a GM, I have no idea how to keep the player characters balanced against one another.
How on earth is anyone supposed to work with this kind of setup?
Where are you going that you have to worry about multiple different tables?
If at an 'unofficial' Con, you need to check with the Con organizers.
If at an official Adventure League Con or game, you can't start with higher level characters, you need to build them up from first level.
For just some ideas for Home Play, the DMG has some guidelines for starting characters at higher levels.
Basically, it seems to be telling me that my 14th-level character should start with 5,000gp + (2d4 x 500gp) and two uncommon items in addition to his 1st-level starting gear.
However, with no exact prices on magical items, that does me NO GOOD AT ALL. How own earth am I to determine how much gold I have remaining when I purchase a rare or very rare item with that 5,000gp? It's impossible to manage and the guidelines made totally useless/moot, because said items can cost anywhere between 500gp to 50,000gp!
Is there a set official standard ANYWHERE that I can use as a basis for balance and consistency?
What "rare or very rare" item are you trying to buy with that 5K? You get 2 uncommon magic items, and you can't buy other ones.... so what are you trying to do?
Why can't you just ask your DM?
RavingDork wrote:
Then again at level 14 you're likely to have picked up a +2 weapon if you'd played to that level so it doesn't seem right that they be restricted to +1.
Coredump00 wrote:
well......build stuff......hirelings......stuff......
Its actually one of the scarcest things about the rules right now. I suppose you could spend that extra gold to craft stuff, since you had to have a life and "downtime" before you start your game at higher levels.
So how much does it cost to craft additional magical items???
RavingDork wrote:
RavingDork, perhaps it will help seeing the thoughts here expresed differently:
Through information gathering, the developers of D&D came to the realization that there isn't a singular option they could present for how many magic items D&D players expect in a campaign, or even how easily such items can be bought, sold, or crafted - most groups deviated from the standards established in the past editions in some way.
As a result of this information, the developers settled on a stance of assuming that a DM is present and that the group is doing what the group feels is best - the source of deviation from standard in prior editions - and as such has elected to have the standard for the current edition be the simplest: There is no such thing as a magic item (unless the group wants there to be).
This does mean that you have to find a group and see what the group does - but that isn't actually any different from prior editions. Actually, I think it is better than prior editions because it is so painfully clear that you will be doing whatever the group wants to do in this regard that there is no possibility for you to follow the "standard" and then find yourself blind-sided by your group's DM saying "that's not how we do things" which I have seen happen before.
RavingDork wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
So I basically just make it up, and hope whatever group I land in accepts it? That's hell' inconveniant.
How the heck am I supposed to have consistency among my reserved characters that way?
Anyways, my 14th-level transmuter has the following listed currently:
- amulet of proof against detection and location
- animal trophy
- arcane focus
- belt pouch
- belt of fire giant strength
- cloak of protection
- dagger +2
- explorer's pack
- horn
- hunting trap
- invitation to a party where a murder happened
- spellbook
- staff
- tender (Unknown amount, since none of the rules are helping me, somewhere between 7-2,500gp I guess.)
- traveler's clothes
Does that look balanced for that level? Too much, too little, what?
RavingDork wrote:
Unlike the last few editions, where magic items were "baked in", 5e is very "plug-n-play".
So, if I understand you correctly that you are just building a 14th-level PC for no reason, other than the hopes of one day sitting at a random table to play it, I'd recommend not putting any magic items down at all.
The DM (whomever it ends up being) will let you know what to do from there once this yet non-existent group becomes existent.
RavingDork wrote:
RavingDork wrote:
RD, this isn't Pathfinder or any other 3.x clone. The Christmas Tree effect doesn't apply here.
lol. Totally misquoted the starting gear formula earlier...
MechaPilot wrote:
RavingDork wrote:
Simon_Legrande wrote:
RavingDork wrote:
But the baseline includes no less than 5,000gp. Even if I assume maximum item prices, that may allow me a handful of weaker magical items in addition.
RavingDork wrote:
pukunui wrote:
RavingDork wrote:
RavingDork wrote:
RavingDork wrote:
I'm not really sure what the source of your confusion is, but you are obviously confused about things and it doesn't sound like you're looking at the right parts of the books. Or something. For example:
RavingDork wrote:
Simon_Legrande wrote:
RavingDork wrote:
Also, you can buy a mount and give it some barding (that ****'s expensive). Or buy a wagon, carriage, etc. Buy healing potions, poisons, etc. Get a pet mastiff or elephant. And all the other stuff people have mentioned (land, titles, businesses, etc).
Or save the gold and bribe people during the game. Or save it for a resurrection. Or some other favour. Maybe you will need to commission a magic item during the game. There are plenty of other ways to spend gold and it doesn't all have to be spent before play starts. It all depends on the group, the campaign setting and the DM.
RavingDork wrote:
Reius wrote:
Something else worth mentioning, while the cloak of protection and the amulet of proof against detection and location are both only uncommon items, they both require attunement. Assuming the DM lets you have the very rare fire giant strength belt too, that's your third and last attuned magic item. If you come across something cool during the course of the game that also requires attunement, you would have to get rid of one of the above items before you could attune to and use the cool new item.
Restrictions on buying magic items aside, the three item limit on attuned items is the real thing preventing the magic item Christmas tree effect in this game. [During the playtest, they had an optional rule allowing you to attune to more items based on your Cha mod, but I see that they haven't included that in the final version of the game. In fact, they caution against raising the limit on page 263.]
Yes, I'm aware of that. It prevented me from adding a lot of interesting choices (otherwise, I might have a ring of protection along with that cloak).
RavingDork wrote:
I think the majority of your issues here stem from the fact that your're attempting to recreate a high-level 3e-era PC using the 5e rules. Since you're not making the character for an actual group, but just to get a feel for the rules, I'd highly recommend that you make a completely new character. Wait till you've got a group to play in before you look at bringing back an old character - you won't be able to know for sure whether you can build this preexisting character the way you want to until you've got a DM to run it past. Until then, it just seems like an exercise in futility, one in which you will end up dissatisfied and write off 5e before you've given it the chance it deserves.
To put it another way, wouldn't it be better to make a fresh character in order to try out a fresh ruleset?
I just looked at your character. I am I reading this right? He has two mythic/epic levels? I don't think that'll translate into a normal level 14 character in 5e. But, then again, I don't know the edition that you're converting from, so I'm not even sure what it means.
THe sugested starting equipment is only for higher level PC, if you are converting from Pathfinder or whatever ask your DM what you can convert over. The is no default or expected dmagic items though.
Zardnaar wrote:
Reius wrote:
RavingDork wrote:
Thank you for the help everyone. I think I have what I need.
Reius wrote:
Couple of comments:
1) RavingDork, your character would be fine as is at one table I have played at, under equiped at another, and way over equiped at the third. The key , in my opinion, that you are missing is the 5th ed heavy reliance on the DM's impact on the answer you were looking for.
2) The desire to recreate a past character can be quite a frustrating thing when moving from edition to edition. I feel your frustration.
3) Maybe what you could do is make three or four versions of the same character, just adjusting the magic levels and thus you could select the one that best fits the table when you do find one.
Either way, good luck with your efforts RavingDork. 
RavingDork wrote:
Assuming the materials cost for crafting magic items is the same as the purchase price for an item.... is *way* missing the point.
Even if there are 'magic shops' with rows of available items..... the price should be at least 2-3 times the material costs.
1) I think your biggest problem is baggage you’re bringing to 5e from previous editions. Toss out al those assumptions about magic items from previous editions - they don't apply to 5e any more than at-will/encounter/daily/utility powers from 4e apply, or monsters-built-using-PC rules from 3e apply, or THACO from 2e applies.
2) You cannot buy magic items, except for some common items listed in the PHB. No, really, you can't. That's the default assumption of 5e.
3) Using the cost to make magic items as a value for the magic item is nonsensical. Even if you could buy magic items, in NO edition of D&D would that be the basis of the price, and in this edition it wouldn't be the basis of the price. That's the cost of goods that go into the item - then you need a formula, which you must find. And then you need the spells, which you must cast. And then you need the time, measured sometimes in YEARS, to make it. And then you need a profit margin, often based on rarity. That's a lot of stuff that would go into pricing an item - so no, it's definitely not just the cost of the stuff going into it.
4) Your character concept is not based on their magic items they own - that's not a character concept, that's a character optimization build that you're trying to disguise with your character concept. If your character lived in a world where they could not buy magic items, what would he do with the wealth he accumulated? THAT is your character concept. Your concept can include striving to obtain a magic item - not already automatically owning it. The concept must act within the default setting assumptions.
What about in campaign settings like Eberron, where magic items are abundant and sold in markets all over Khorvaire? What reference is used to set prices for items already published? I suppose one could use rarity tables for that, but I think different items of similar rarity warrant different values, especially in a setting where magic items sit in storefront windows.
durntaur wrote:
EzechielDantan wrote:
RavingDork wrote: