Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 FrogReaver Feb 27, 2015 7:57:20	Divine Favor - range self as a buff - 1d4 extra damage against target, no other bonus actions required Hunter's Mark - range 90ft - 1d6 extra damage against target, can be moved as a bonus action Hex  - range 90 ft - 1d6 extra damage against target, can be moved as a bonus action   1.  Divine favor works at long ranges because it is a self buff.  This makes it more suited to use with a longbow (especially when sharpshooter is taken).   2.  Divine favor only ever takes up 1 bonus action.  This interfers less with extra attacks from things like polearm mastery and crossbow expertise.  Heck, it even interfers less with extra attacks of two weapon fighting.
#2 SterlingRat Feb 27, 2015 8:13:52	Divine Favor - lasts one minute only. (Usually one encounter) available to every Paladin Hunters Mark - last 1 or more hours (multiple encounters) and has totally useless secondary effects, only available to Vengance Paladins Hex - last 1 or more hours (multiple encounters) and has a somewhat useful secondary effect, available to every Paladin/Warlock or Paladin with Magic Initiate   Personally, I perfer Bless (assuming someone else didn't already cast it). 1d4 to your damage or 1d4 to your attacks... and two of your friend's attacks.
#3 Coredump00 Feb 27, 2015 8:47:20	I might consider DF instead of HM for my archer....but its only available to Paladins.   My Paladin doesn't worry about the range, so will stick with the higher damage and longer lasting HM.  If I was often using my Bonus action for attacks I might reconsider, but its not an issue at this point.
(Reply to #3) FrogReaver	Coredump00 wrote:
(Reply to #2) FrogReaver	SterlingRat wrote:
#6 QwertyAzerty Feb 27, 2015 9:28:26	here the maths:   Divine Favor: +1d4 (average of 2.5 damage) per attack Hex and HM: +1d6 (average of 3.5 damage) per attack   So with Great weapon Master using a greatsword: 2d6+5 (average of 12 damage per attack)   Greatsword with DF: 2d6+1d4+5 (14.5 damage) per attack Greatsword with Hex (or HM): 2dd6+1d6+5 (Average of 15.5 damage) per attack So Hex give us an average of 1 extra damage per attack.   So if I kill someone using GWM, I need to choose if I use my bonus action to do my extra attack or to transfert Hex, Most people will take the extra attack, loosing 2.5 damage compare as if you had DF instead. Assuming you don't crit on the next round, you put Hex up next round and start dealing an extra 1 damage.   So if you need 3 attack+ to bring an enemy down (forcing you to switch the target for Hex/HM) then Hex and HM is better since loosing the 2.5 damage from DF on a single attack is less then loosing 1 damage on every other attack.   If you need 2 or less attack to bring the ennemy down, then DF is better since the you don't have time to dealing more damage between needing to switch targets.   So I would say that at low level, where you can easily kill goblin and kobolt in a single hit, DF is preferable. At higher level when even the regular "filler" monster like the ogre protecting the level 15 wizard take at least 3 attack to bring down then Hex and HM become stronger.   These calculation do not include miss chance.
#7 mellored Feb 27, 2015 9:55:42	Just for compairson...   Bless adds ~1.25 damage * 3 targets.  (assuming 10 average damage dealt).
(Reply to #6) FrogReaver	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #7) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#10 QwertyAzerty Feb 27, 2015 10:10:52	To compare BLess VS Divine favor, it's harder because it a lot more dependent on the AC of the target and on the chance to hit from the party.   A group of archer fighter (+7 to hit even at level 1) attacking zombi with 8 AC, Bless have a total impact of 0 damage bonus, so might as well use Divine Favor or Hex. Fighting a full plate shield evil fighter (AC20) then bless might be more useful considering that if you miss even with Hex you still do zero damage so increasing you chance to hit is more favorable.   Finally if a group of level 1 combatant with +5 to hit fight a monster with 29+AC, then bless is useless since even if they roll 4 on bless they still need to roll a 20 to hit, so might as well use Divine favor so you deal damage when you roll 20 (and double the damage from Hex (or faerie fire to give advantage and increase your chance for a natural 20 lol)
(Reply to #10) FrogReaver	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #4) Coredump00	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #12) FrogReaver	Coredump00 wrote:
(Reply to #5) SterlingRat	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #14) FrogReaver	SterlingRat wrote:
#16 mellored Feb 27, 2015 11:27:06	That assumes you don't cast bless before you kick down the door. And it ignores the save boost from bless. And it assumes no other bonus actions.   But yes, divine favor can work with the right setup.
#17 SterlingRat Feb 27, 2015 11:38:22	That's true... I didn't consider a different class trying to choose where to dip and try to get one of those spells, I was only thinking about a character that would naturally have them trying to decide which to cast. That's also why I was only considering a low-level character casting the spell - one that gives up only a single attack and has 50% chance to hit. And, of course, I'm subject to the apparently out-of-date "truism" that bonus to-hit > bonus damage.
#18 mellored Feb 27, 2015 11:50:18	SterlingRat wrote:
(Reply to #16) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #18) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #17) FrogReaver	SterlingRat wrote:
#22 mellored Feb 27, 2015 12:03:50	FrogReaver wrote:
#23 SterlingRat Feb 27, 2015 12:05:22	I think I'm sold on the one-level dip to War Cleric. After all, as a Level 11 fighter, Level 1 War Cleric, you can have both divine favor and bless, making you adaptable to either pre-combat buff or in-combat buff. Plus you are starting fighter, so you have Con save proficiency (making it more likely to make concentration checks). You are a little bit MAD, but who isn't these days?
(Reply to #23) FrogReaver	SterlingRat wrote:
(Reply to #22) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#26 mellored Feb 27, 2015 12:48:55	Any level 11 fighter should consider multiclassing in general.   rogue 2, ranger 2, cleric 2, wizard 2, bard 2, barbairan 2....
(Reply to #26) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#28 mellored Feb 27, 2015 12:57:01	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #28) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#30 mellored Feb 27, 2015 13:04:55	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #23) FrogReaver	SterlingRat wrote:
#32 mellored Feb 27, 2015 13:25:39	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #30) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #32) FrogReaver	mellored wrote: