Hi all,
For a couple of months now I've been convinced to make a Dwarf Tempest Cleric for Hoard of the Dragon Queen (when we will finally start 
). Reading up lately on Light I'm not so sure anymore. Almost every guide I look Tempest is rated higher than Light but I'm a bit puzzled as to why.
We'll only go to around level 12 (as far as I understood the adventure is a 2 parter), so not taking into account the highest domain feats.
- Light can get around focussing on Wisdom instead of having to do Wisdom and Dex (or Str), seems like a major advantage.
- Reaction: Warding Flare, giving disadvantage when you (or someone else) gets attacked seems better than dealing damage afterwards (especially since this damage doesn't scale).
- Tempest gets Heavy armor, but if you start Light with medium armor and a 14 dex the AC is the same. But no real reason to boost dex after that, allowing you to focus on wisdom and feats.
- At will damage, assuming a rapier (dex based) for the Tempest Cleric, at level 8 the damage will be more or less the same vs sacred flame. 2d8 + modifier.
- Radiance of the Dawn is an AOE friendly AOE, that unlike Wrath of the Storm, scales somewhat (although probably not that great). Essentially giving you 1 or 2 extra spell slots / short rest as it's channel divinity.
- Fireball does generally more damage than the Tempest equivalent. It's not concentration though but you can use it indoor.
- There is of course the extremely awesome Destructive Wave that lets your deal max damage for Tempest, this is without a doubt awesome. I would miss it dearly if I went Light.
But other than Destructive Wave it seems Light has a clear edge. But everyone seems to think Tempest is better (it's definitely cooler thematically wise ). Am I missing something ?
Thanks,
Jorn
I wouldn't say that one is better than the other. It depends on what you like to do. If you want to wade into combat, then Tempest is the way to go. You get both heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency, so you can largely ignore Dex entirely. Creatures that do attack you hit you less often (because of the heavy armor), and those that do will take lightning or thunder damage if you desire. You have some quite potent spells, including the very potent call lightning and ice storm, and even your thunderwave is more powerful than usual with your domain powers.
The Light cleric is meant to be the more spellcasting-oriented cleric. He doesn't have heavy armor proficiency, and only simple weapons, so he's not meant to charge into the thick of things. To compensate, he has more spellcasting options. Note that re: AC, he'd need to burn his 14 in Dex; the Tempest cleric could have an 8 or a 10 Dex without needing to worry, and use that 14 elsewhere (Con or Strength, most likely). So, even if you find Warding Flare as better overall, it's better for the Light cleric not to be in range of melee combat anyway.
So, it really depends on what you see yourself doing. Do you want to be in the back ranks mostly casting spells, only occasionally helping in the melee combat? Or, do you want to wade into the thick of things, dealing out as much damage as you can, while still also being able to provide support? In the former, go with Light. In the latter, Tempest.
Thanks for the feedback,
But the thing is, getting 2 dex is nice anyways (initiative, more used saving throws, etc). With heavy armor you can dump dex (and lose out on those nice dex things) and get strength. But you'd have to focus on both Strength and Wisdom which doesn't leave much room for feats. A Light cleric would have the same AC, higher inititaitve, better saving throws and could wade into the tick of things. I'm not seeing why a Light Cleric would do bad in melee range as he has the same (or less) change to get hit, and he has some nice close area affects as well such as Radiance of the Dawn and Burning Hands. And Sacred Flame can be cased in melee range also as it's not a ranged spell attack.
This bothers me somewhat to be honest, I really think that there should have been a clearer gap between heavy armor and dex based AC. The heavy armor should be at least 2 higher on all tiers of play and then the Tempest Cleric would make more sense to me ...
You'll have to help me out here. Just how is the Light cleric managing the same AC as the Tempest cleric? You can't count magic items, since the Tempest cleric could have them as well. As it is, since under your premise the Light cleric has, and retains, a 14 Dex, his AC will be at best 17 (half-plate, 19 with shield), but only giving up one of the things Dex is suppsed to do for him, i.e. he'll be at disadvantage for stealth. If he doesn't want disadvantage on stealth (i.e. he doesn't want to lose what his Dex has to offer him), he'll be at best AC 16 (breastplate, 18 with shield). The Tempest cleric can have an AC of 18 (full plate, 20 with shield), and while disadvantaged on stealth as well, was never going to be stealthy in the first place. Furthermore, having put 14 in Dex, he'll be lower in the Con department, and his melee attacks, even Dex based, won't get much better. Besides, he doesn't have the same range of weapons, ranged or melee.
I'm not saying that the Light cleric is bad in melee combat. It's just that he's not as good as the Tempest cleric.
Starting stats:
Tempest Cleric: start with chain mail = AC 16
Light Cleric: start with Scale mail + 2 DEX = AC 16
Both with shield is 18
I agree that further down the line, the tempest could get Plate giving him 20 AC and the Light Cleric would have 19 (half plate)
Not sure at what level full plate gets in the game as I've not played far (only did the starter set), but as I'm only playing to level 12 I can imagine this would only be at the end ? (but I guess to a degree the same could be said of half plate). But that's still only 1 AC different starting at maybe level 7 or 8 earliest ?
Light cleric could max his attack stat (wisdom) at level 8 which would be valid for all his attacks.
Tempest could also go with dex in itself (I don't want to turn this into a strength vs dex debate) or strength but he'd still be bumping 2 stats to be able to be good in melee and spellcasting, maxing out those only a lot further down the line. All for eventually 1 AC more starting at level 7 or 8 earliest ? in the meantime the Light cleric could get feats or more Con.
And this all surprised me, as before I figured out light and medium armor could go so high I really thought there would be a substantional difference, even at lower levels.
Light domain is also perfect for a hipster drow matriarch.
Ok thanks for feedback guys
Maybe to give some context, this is how the party will look like (not everything is definite though)
- Me (tempest or light cleric)
- Monk
- Paladin
- Fighter or barbarian (but this person won't always we there)
- Wizard (most likely evocation)
- 1 additional character most likely, but not known yet what, hopefully at least partially healer specced
I realize light or tempest overlap with the wizard if he goes evocation. We both like to blow things up
1 important thing to note though: I've told the party I will not be the main healer as I've done that for the past 3 years. So I will off heal and the paladin will also try to do some healing, but I do expect/hope the additional character to take up some healer role.
Thanks,
Jorn
Darthy1980 wrote:
Llenlleawg wrote:
Have you ever pulled an all-nighter? Sunrise sneaks up on you man. :P
Ok, thanks for feedback Looks like it will be Light
Looks like the other guy is going to go for Bard most likely.