As the title says, there's not much available info here for non-Moon Druids. Any advice for a Land Druid, other than playing a Nature Cleric instead?
It's a fairly straightforward spellcaster, most of the advice will be about spell choices which depends a lot on what other casters in your party (if any) have available, whether you want your Land Druid to be more of a controller, utility, buffer or nuker and so on.
I'd definitely rate some level dipping in Monk very highly though, your AC will thank you. More levels increase your survivability and melee even more. 5 Monk/15 Land Druid is a very respectable Gish.
Unfortunately for the Land Druid, it really is a straightforward spellcaster and whose best Druidic feature (wildshaping) not only developes slowly, but also burns an action, and prevents you from using your best ability (your casting) [at least until level 18].
All that being so, the Land Druid seems to be solution looking for a problem. Why? Because the Nature Cleric does seem to be at least as good a caster as the Land Druid, and has better ancillary class features...and isn't hobbled by the wonky armor rules or foci rules.
IMHO that's why you don't hear a lot about Land Druids here.
-Polaris
I think that the Land Druid suffers from a lack of "sexiness". Where the Moon Druid is getting some huge improvements to a cool and powerful ability, Land Druids get a few more spells added to their spell list. And depending which terrain you select, the spells range from "nice addition" to "meh".
There really isn't much need for a guide. Just look for the spells you like the most and pick that Terrain.
I actually love the Land Druid. Druids get access to Conjure Animals and Conjure Woodland Beings which are both amazing, and the Land Druids can refill the slots to cast them on a short rest just like Wizards can.
The shapechanging thing just doesn't appeal to me much. It's definitely cool, just not the cool I want.
As a DM, I find the land druid a nice source for NPCs, or to be more specific, I find the list of terrain spells nice for NPCs.
It is funny how opinion shifts. Before the PHB was released, it seemed like everyone was down on the nature cleric as a poor man's land druid, and now it seems like the opposite.
If there was a nonmetallic heavy armor, a Nature Cleric 1/Land Druid 19 would be quite the tanky hippie.
Because it's boring and crap.
You have a choice. Do you want an extra cantrip, Natural Recovery and some domain spells and...
OR DO YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO TURN INTO A GRIZZLY BEAR! AT LEVEL 2! RAAAARRR!*
* Yes technically the Land Druid can actually turn into a Black Bear at level 4, and a Brown Bear at level 8, but you've still missed much awesome Bear Time
As others have said, it's not *awful* but you don't get that great a package in exchange for what is considered to be perhaps the most overtly OP thing at low levels.
If anything part of the problem is that *so much* is given to the basic druid.
And the spell list just doesn't compare to a Wizard's.
If it's you're thing, then sure.
I think they should have given just one more really awesome/unique thing to the Land Druid, like the ability to sustain 2 druid concentration spells at once. At least that way, it would make it a tougher decision on whether to go moon or land.
I really like the idea of a land druid that uses thornwhip to pull creatures into things like flaming sphere or wall of fire. Land druids are more subtle in their sexiness. Look at spells like anti-life shell and Contagion, both which have limited access and druids get them both. Having nukes and curing without having to multi class is nice too!
dwgautier wrote:
Thank_Dog wrote:
dwgautier wrote:
And when all is said and done, it's not even very imaginative. On first blush it comes across as "Wizard: Nature Specialist". They really dropped the ball on this sub-class as far as I'm concerned. Which is truly a shame given how interesting it could have been.
Polaris wrote:
The biggest issue is that the Moon Druid *can* fill that caster role, with little drop in overall effectiveness. It can then also shift to beast form and mulch faces. The reverse isn't quite true unfortunately. This is especially true during low to mid level play.
At the end of the day the result is:
Land Druid: Great Caster, mediocre melee
Moon Druid: Good Caster, Great melee
The Land Druid just feels like a miss, especially when compared to the Moon Druid. It's "schtick" isn't well established or defined. It feels like a weak Cleric Domain, which gets heavily overshadowed by how good the Moon Druid makes Wild Shape.
I do think Land Druid can be an excellent Gish with some Monk levels.
LDruid/Monk: Good/Great caster, Good/Great melee - depending how you build it.
1eejit wrote:
ppaladin123 wrote:
Illithidbix wrote:
1eejit wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Polaris wrote:
The biggest draws to land druids are natural renewal and circle spells. Immunity to poison and disease isn't bad either. The number of prepared spells opens up options. Meanwhile, it's a long time before casting in beast form is an option so moon druids tend to hold on to the form for combat and are not actually casting spells or they must give up the form anyway. Land druids might not have those sexy forms early but aren't necessarily a bad choice.
I bet more people would play Land Druids if more DMs didn't hand wave the animals a Druid 'has seen before'. Namely, Brown Bears are not the type of animal most people care to see and starting off as a nature loving character is all the more reason your character should know to avoid them.
Demosthenes2054 wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
ppaladin123 wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
1eejit wrote:
Demosthenes2054 wrote:
The other problem is wildshaping (and polymorph be we're talking druids here) lets you comb the Monster Manual for that newest and niftiest beast form, and as choices in the monster manual expand, so do your wildshape options (esp if at some point in the future....and it's going to happen...various abilities/items/feats appear to expand wildshaping beyond the best/elemental forms it permits now). I thought the Devs learned their lesson from 3.X in this regard.......
Getting back to the Land Druid, Wildshaping is the most quintessential (and arguablely) best ability a druid (of any type) gets, and the Moon Druids are far superior at it. The extra casting and a couple of very minor abilities the Land Druid get in return hardly seem worth it because Wildshaping is so good and so powerful.
-Polaris
Its more or less a faithful adaption of the 2nd ed Druid. IN a vacumn that would mean its a good class but it suffers when compared to the moon Druid and Nature cleirc. It has not changed that nmuch compared to the 2nd ed Druid whihc was not broken unlike CoDzilla but all the pother classes are a lot more powerful than the 2nd ed versions of those classes.
Being able to get asingle spell back via a short rest and gaining a handful of different spells that you can't really cast any more than a moon Druid= big whoop.
Wildshape is not the defining aspect of the Druid as it has usually been an out of combat ability in AD&D or for around 23 years. The main problem being the higher level abilities pale vs a moon druids higher level wildshape options. To add insult to injurt tempest and nature clerics also seem better at actually casting spells as well and have better AC options. I suppose you could build a decent support land druid using faerie fire and haste which would be sopmehitng you would be good at and have a large impact on the party.
You do nopt have that many spells to buff and blast though and the light cleric will be better at that as well. Overall the main problems are.
1. You are not that good at casting spells
2. You are no good at combat
3. You are not that great out of conmbat either.
4. The moon druid is better.
Druids used to be better blasters than clerics but tempest and light cleric eat into that ability. The Druid had better weapons as well or at least the scimitar which was better than what weapons the cleric could use.
Jell_Moo wrote:
Demosthenes2054 wrote:
Yeah, I see what you're saying. I wish each archeype had a bit more character, more like domains, or that the non-spell class features were a bit better overall. The spell recovery is nice but depends alot on how your group takes rests.
I thought you could use the land druid as a decent buffer with faerie fire and haste and throw around some boom spells as well. Problem is you are really playing a crappy bard if you do that although the Druid can change the spells up I suppose. buffer+blaster seems to be the best option and you will do it better than the moon druid as they will be in animal form a lot.
Zardnaar wrote:
If you had a more stealth based party, land druid seems more advantageous than a nature cleric. If the stealth party had a lot of full casters, moon druid would be better than land druid, but if you were light on casters, some of the terrain spells would be really nice to have.
Mechagamera wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
They should have made beast spell the land Druids high level ability. It fits a lot better to the "caster" branch and it reduces the caster power of the moons Druid, win win.
[rant]
Wildshape is just sloppy design: " ehmmm guys wasn't there a problem in wildshaping in 3e? Nah it probably wasn't the part where people get so many options via MM and other splat books that wildshape is guaranteed to have broken elements...let's go with 3e wild shaping!" .... *sigh*
One of the playtests even had an awesome new way of doing it that offered boosts to the Druids stats and some attacks and the shape/size. But no, let's go with the way that has proven to be a disaster in previous editions, that's the smart option.
[/rant]
A Land Druid appeals to me because of iconic Druid spells. The class itself is very similar to Wizard or Cleric, but the spell selection is what differentiates it, as should be the case for "primary casters" in my opinion. An extra cantrip and extra spells per day are actually a fairly big advantage over Circle of the Moon. Additionally, the ability to pick up spells such as invisibiility, lightning bolt or haste are interesting as well.
I think a great many "historically fictional" Wizards are probably closer to the D&D Druid (or possibly Bard) than the D&D Wizard. For someone fond of that archetype, I think the Circle of the Land is a good fit.
Keendk wrote:
1eejit wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Timborama wrote:
I just had a thought. What if you gave the land druid a wildshape into terrain specific critter at 10th level, using 2 charges of wild shape like elemental body:
Arctic: Remorhaz, young
Coastal: Shark, giant
Desert: Gorgon
Forest: Unicorn
Grassland: Bulette
Mountains: Hill giant
Swamp: Shambling mound
Underdark: Umber hulk
Druids can't use studded leather. It's STUDDED.
Polaris wrote:
Timborama wrote:
Not to get all pedantic but: "Made from tough but flexible leather, studded leather is reinforced with close-set rivets or spikes."-PHB 144, Studded Leather
Rivets or spikes of what? Well, anything the DM says (whether or not you're the one who convinces him...). Compare that to several options from medium and heavy armor that specifically call out metal rings, metal rivets, metal plates...
Why not say metal rivets and spikes in studded leather? Seems okay (and RAW I guess) to me.
Timborama wrote:
I don't find it that clear at all, myself. At least not in the way you mention. But hey, whatevs. If you or your DM want to deprive the druid of 1 AC "because reasons" that's cool 
(of course there's always Hide, but then Druids who have 16+ DEX get hosed "because reasons" too!)
Depriving druids of most armours in the game without providing them a class feature that can make up for it was not a great design choice, I think. That said, I allow druids to use whatever armour they're proficient with and can afford; it takes two seconds to reskin "studded leather" or "scale mail" as something that works for druids. Penalizing the class over 30-year-old flavour text is not fun, to me.
Direach wrote:
No worries Polaris, I didn't think you were backing Team No Fun. 
I'm a paid up member of team no fun in terms of Druid armor. You just won't have the best AC in the party and if you are a moon druid it won't matter that much. Blast and buff was really the Druids thing before 3.x turned the class into the D in CoDzilla.
Polaris wrote:
I think that the intent pretty clearly (though admittedly not as clearly as it should be) is that Druids can wear cloth, leather, or hide with shields. That's it. That's basically a starting AC 16 with investment in Dex 14, which still outperforms the Warlock and equates to the Wizard with an investment in Dex 16.
Land Druids are just fine as is, in comparison to the AC potential of other primary casters other than Clerics.
They do lack in special features compared to other casters, clearly. The only thing they have going for them is that their spell list does have some gems hidden in it despite lacking variety. I could see the argument that they can "flex" more than any other caster: Reverse Gravity one turn and a massive healing spell the next? The Druid's your guy.
If you want to totally leverage that spell list and don't want a bunch of tanking and 37 concentration checks to get in your way, then I suppose the Land Druid is the unsexy choice.
Plaguescarred wrote:
Yeah RAI has over 30 years of history behind it as druid never been able to wear studded leather armor IIIRC!
The reason to play a caster druid as opposed to any other caster class is not a couple random class features - it's the spell list. Druids have always gotten access to some unique (and powerful) spells and that is no different in this edition. Some of these spells are simply unique to the druid (although they might be stealable by Bards, Warlocks, etc), some are shared with a small number of classes, but they create a very distinct selection. Compared with Clerics, while having a comparable selection of healing spells, they get access to some powerful Sorcerer/Wizard spells (stoneskin, sunbeam, reverse gravity). And while Nature Clerics pick up a few druid spells overall they're still Clerics with the Cleric list.
Here is just a selection of some of the really unique and useful or powerful spells that are either restricted to druids or accessible by them but not by Nature Clerics:
0- shillelagh, thorn whip (druid only)
1- entangle (druid only), goodberry (ranger), faerie fire (bard)
2- heat metal (bard)
3- call lightning (druid or tempest cleric, but not nature), conjure animal (ranger)
4- conjure woodland beings (ranger), polymorph (bard, sorc, wizard) stoneskin (ranger, sorc, wizard or war cleric)
5- antilife shell, awaken (druid only), wall of stone (sorc, wizard)
6- conjure fey (warlock), sunbeam (sorc, wizard), wall of thorns (druid only)
7- reverse gravity (sorc, wizard)
8- antipathy/sympathy (wizard), feeblemind (bard, warlock, wizard), sunburst (sorcerer, wizard)
9- foresight (bard, sorc, wizard), shapechange (wizard)
The Circle Spells feature expands this drastically; being able to pick up blur or mirror image are strong defensive options, while gaining invisibility AND haste is nothing to sneeze at, nor is greater invisibility.
Beyond that, if you want to play a druid who focuses on casting, Land is still a very obvious and satisfying choice. It's also worth noting that you still have access to polymorph (and eventually shapechange), so you're quite capable of accessing some even more powerful combat forms if the situation happens to call for it, or for utility purposes.
danyc wrote:
danyc wrote:
danyc wrote:
Moon druid feels boring. As other party members will be leveling up and gaing cool magic items (including land druids) Moon druids will be VERY limited on what items they can use in animal form as well as not many, if any, cool new powers as they level. Moon druids are powerful for sure, as they level up I don't think they will be as 'fun' because they already kinda have all they are mostly going to get. The three bears are the same damn thing just more stats. That is not a fun developement. Sure they can get swimming creatures and flying beast as they level... I just see moon druid getting boring even though it i powerful.
Zardnaar wrote:
I just want to point out that Awaken is not Druid only. Bards get that too.
danyc wrote:
danyc wrote:
They should have given moon druids the spell slot chart of a Paladin or Ranger. That would have balanced things big time.
Zardnaar wrote:
danyc wrote:
I spoke about tanking, which is indeed the best thing about the Moon Druid. But being the tank isn't terribly useful if your party doesn't need another tank, or if you don't want to be a tank.
But thanks for rehashing things already said and adding very little new content.
danyc wrote:
Much of this thread is argument about the best optimised choice.
If you want a nature/elemental style caster, land druid is cool. As always however, make sure he fits a niche in your party. Dont go land druid if you already have a nature cleric or moon druid, too much overlap. Or possibly even a ranger. Otherwise cool beans.
Zardnaar wrote:
danyc wrote:
dwgautier wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
danyc wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
RCanine wrote:
danyc wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
The thief healing kit has no "burst healing" - it only works once per PC per short rest. It's good and useful, but not the best healing imo. It doesnt have the flexibility magic healing does.
1eejit wrote:
So what? That still falls under in combat healing, which is what I was discussing.
1eejit wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
Dpends on the situation. If NPCs wail on PC while they are down I will use a healing word but if the fight is nearly over you let the PC stay down and use th healers feat to give them 1 hit point and then use cure woulds to heal them.
Heling word gives you less healing than cure wounds but has rthe advanatage of a bonus action so that to me means emergencies. the difference between 1d4+3 or +4 and 1 hit point is also somewhat pointless vs a lot of foes so being on 1 HP doesn't matter that much and even crits can't kill you that easily once you are past level 2.
Healing word is marginally better for a life cleric otherwise we use it for emergencies like somone is bleeding out or being atacked while they are down and the rogue is to far away with the healers kit and/or candash/disengage as a bonus action and use objetc as his action to save someone.
Things like Prayer of Healing are also out of combat healing spells.
1eejit wrote: