| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1PSusacDec 03, 2014 22:09:32 |
Mage Hand is an awesome cantrip. No doubt about it. BUT
You only get 5 cantrips, and the functionality of mage hand can be replaced at low levels by unseen servant cast as a ritual. At high level, just prepare the unseen servant spell instead (burning a spell slot sure, but hey – it frees up a cantrip).
My human diviner has:
Eventually I’ll add in
The problem is, there is a LOT of good utility that is left on the table there, and there is no way to access it. Why would anyone ever take mending? It’s just not combat-useful at all, but it’s still a great little spell. I know I’m on a rant but it seems like the cantrip rules are just too restrictive. |
| #2PsikerlordDec 03, 2014 23:02:05 | I guess there is coolness factor and ease of utility to take into account.
Also you can get a feat for more cantrips, certain races give more, and scrolls can have cantrips. So I think you can get quite a few if you are willing to pay the opportunity cost. |
| #3CFKDec 03, 2014 23:23:04 | It won't help you in combat, but out of combat I found it pretty cool.
During LMoP in the starters kit, I "mage handed" something that was laying on the bottom of a small body of water. It was under 10 pounds so it could be lifted with eas.
And think of it this way. As a person I drop things on a regular base. Tools, pencils, papers and everything I can hold in my hands (I have a high DEX but crappy concentration
I'd say "Awesomecakes" at least 20 times a day. |
| #4BoldItalicDec 04, 2014 4:53:57 |
|
| #5Coredump00Dec 04, 2014 8:36:28 | There are situaations, both in and out of combat, when taking 10 minutes to cast a spell is not useful.
Plus, it is unclear by the description if an US can even keep up with a walking character.
MH has a shorter range, but can reach 'up' much higher.
|
| #6sigfileDec 04, 2014 9:42:56 | Unseen Servant takes ten minutes to cast when cast as a ritual and lasts one hour. Mage Hand is there whenever you need it. Unseen Servants may be attacked and "killed." Mage Hands can't. The tradeoff is that Unseen Servants act on the wizard's bonus action, while Mage Hands consume the normal action. They both have their strengths, but I'm a fan of at-will minor telekinesis.
Of the cantrips you listed, "Friends" is the standout terrible option for a party face, since anyone you cast it on becomes hostile after at most one minute. |
| #7ClutchboneDec 04, 2014 16:08:06 |
|
| #8melloredDec 04, 2014 11:54:54 | My character uses mending all the time. But then again, he breaks alot of things too.
Also, you might value your level 1 spell choice over your cantrip spell choice and not take unseen servant. |
| #9RhennyDec 04, 2014 15:55:05 | If the Mage is captured and his spell book is taken, he can still cast cantrips but not a ritual. Hopefully he'll see a guard with a key to his cell fall asleep with the key attached to his belt. |
| #10SorxoresDec 05, 2014 6:31:28 |
|
| #11PSusacDec 05, 2014 11:35:31 | Bolditalic: All of those functions can be accomplished with Unseen Servant AND it's invisible, AND it carries more weight.
Sorxors: You are actually making my point for me. The cantrip system is an example of BAD DESIGN. There are lots of cantrips that, while interesting, no one would ever take, because there are simply better choices. The value of true strike is minimal - there are too many ways to get advantage that don't take up a cantrip slot Heck, you can get the same benefit from having your familiar take the help action. The value if mage hand is minimal - unseen servant does the job for free. Etc. etc.
The feature that makes cantrips a bad game design is the fact that you only get 5-6 cantrips EVER. This means that there is no good reason to spend a valuable cantrip slot on anything that that can be produced by the character in any other way. Similarly there is no good reason to take more than one damaging cantrip, since having multiple sources of damage is really a waste of valuable slots. Personally I think they should be prepared like any other spell. |
| #12Mephi1234Dec 05, 2014 12:01:18 |
|
| (Reply to #11)Clutchbone |
|
| #14NoonDec 05, 2014 15:30:27 | Your unseen servant gets blown up when opening the trapped door for you? |
| #15PSusacDec 05, 2014 16:46:58 | Mephi: I'm right on board with you! Friends looks awsome! Havne't got a chance to use it yet. The one point though is that it doesn't work in combat because the target can't be hostile to you.
Clutchbone: OK, you sold me. The fact that the mage hand is immune to damage is actually a unique and powerful ability that it has that the unseen servant doesn't. I also recognize that there are other classes that use these abilities (that's why I framed my question as wizard-specific), and historically many of the spells (like blur) actually work as a sort of reference for other rules - for example a "blur" effect might be found on a monster. Still Blur is a crappy spell that no one will use, because there are better options. Mending is a great spell that no one will use because their options are limitied. I still think this is bad design.
Noon: I'm not so worried about the unseen servant getting blown up - that's what it's FOR! But Clutchbone's point is a good one - if you can use it to fish items out of hostile environments, then this is the one advantage it has over unseen servant. |
| #16IllithidbixDec 05, 2014 18:04:43 | Casting Unseen Servant as a ritual requires 10 minutes every hour that you might well not have. Casting Mage Hand takes six seconds.
Minor Illusion is frikkin' awesome, I agree. But many Wizard concepts just don't gel with illusions.
Sometimes you don't want to play the cookie cutter optimised option. Esp if the game isn't about challenging optimised characters.
Also with Mage Hand and Friends you can pretend to be a Jedi.... |
| (Reply to #15)Coredump00 |
|
| #18raleelDec 06, 2014 16:33:49 | Nothing says that the mage hand or the unseen servant is flying or can fly or can't fly for that matter.
US is a bonus action to control. That's a fairly big deal. Strength 2 is a lot more than 10 pounds. Strength 2 can carry a very skinny gnome.
Ive been considering using US to carry some cover for my wizard. Basically, a door |
| (Reply to #18)Bloodscythe |
|
| #20sigfileDec 07, 2014 15:36:48 |
|
| #21LongTimeLurkerDec 07, 2014 21:24:08 | My wizard is an intellectual who is, first and foremost, lazy and adverse to physical labor. Because Magick! He has prestidigitation, light, minor illusion and mage hand, why? Because the majority of day to day interactions can be accomplished by those. He's a high elf with good dex, so started with a longbow, and picked up fire bolt at 4th. Making camp? Fire's lit by PD, my cup of water is hot, and flavored to my liking. I got dirty somehow? I'm clean again. Smoking a pipe? Lit it with my finger. Need a book from the top shelf? It delivers itself into my hand. Need to describe something I saw or read? Pshaw! Any flat surface is a monitor with minor illusion available. Owl flew up 100' and gave me a bird's eye view? Perfect detail illusion of the surrounding terrain, with zoom. Countless more options.
Sure, there's lots of other ways to accomplish all these tasks. These cantrips, however, are what makes you a magic user, and not just some guy blasting energy. They continuously convey that my character's everyday life is made easier because of magic. |
| #22bonethug0108Dec 07, 2014 21:35:00 | I love it. Bravo LTL. The game isn't all about combat(even though most of these do have use in combat). If all you care about is being super optimized than go ahead and avoid them. If you are looking to play a role, then explore your options and how they can help fulfill that role. |
| (Reply to #21)Dyndrilliac |
|
| #24SorxoresDec 08, 2014 7:57:35 | My personal favorite cantrip for my red dragonbloodline sorcerer:
Firebolt-- duh I'm a fire dragon
Acid Splash-: why cast firebolt doing 3d10+5 on a goblin when Acid Splash can kill 2 target at the same time? Acid splash deal a total of 2d6 at lvl 1, 4d6 at lvl 5, 6d6 at lvl 11 and 8d6 at level 17 cannot be better then that for cantrip and you kill 2 goblin per cast.
Minor illusion-: the power to become UNSEEN in combat (as long as you don't move and that the monster stay in fron of you, I hope your fighter will be able to prevent them from coming too close) then you have ADVANTAGE on ALL your attack (scorching ray lvl 9 sending 10 ray with advantage on each, lookj at your DM face when you roll 20d20 FTW lol), Then advantage on Intimidation check (make the illusion of energy swirling aound you DBZ style, to show that you have more arcane power that you actually have), can be used as the spell message (ghost sound of a very soft, low voice saying the message you want to say to coming from directly near the ear of an ally) etc...
Mage hand- because 10 pound of force a will is very usefull, a key in a misterious keyhole? a crown on the head of a skeleton 30feet from the door? and doesn't require my even more previous spell known
Light-: even being a half elf, being in total darkness still incure a -2 penalty on to hit and disavantage on perception (like being in dim light for a human) plus always usefull forallowing the fighter to weild his weapon and shield and still carry the "torche"
Mending-: because I don't need a 3rd attack spell, true strike and blade ward are too weak and useless, Friend I got a good Charisma bonus, so everyone is already my friend anyway (and our bard take care if it usually) Dancing ligth can be mimic using minor illusion and the light spell, Message is mimic with minor illusion, Most utility of Prestidigitation can be achieve using firebolt (light up regular fire) mage hand (open/shut shutter).
|
| (Reply to #24)Clutchbone |
|
| (Reply to #25)Bloodscythe |
|