Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ManoVega Sep 03, 2014 10:30:59	Anyone else feel the Wild mage shouldn't be in the core rules? It's almost the perfect class for a splat book, with all the weird tables and effects, but for the PHB I think they dropped the ball. Considering how great the Draconic Sorceror is in comparison too, it just means all Sorcerors will be Draconic, except for enemies and that guy who no one wants to play with.   Other ideas for a Sorceror:   - Elemental: Throw in all the old Genasi stuff, and you can already make 4 pretty interesting sub-classes (much better Last Airbenders than the Monks IMHO)   - Chaos: Not wild magic, but maybe more variable (spells deal more/less damage on even/odds) or based on the containment issue they talk about in the description (when casting a Metamagic spell caster may attempt to use two-for-one but risk losing both, try and cast bonus spells by draining your own HPs, exploding damage if they break your concentration).    - Law: The opposite of Chaos, all spells do an exact amount of damage, no rolling. Add some interesting powers like, "can ignore Concentration for 1rnd/lvl, may take an 11 as his attack roll Cha bonus/day, can force another creature to use 11 as their attack, etc). Maybe even have a restriction that states they must release all their spells before they can rest for more, or risk some backlash, this could be tied to the exact damage they can cause (ie. 1d6 is a 4 as long as they rest with 0 spells, but drops by 1 for each rest they take without expending all their energy). This is my favorite idea, it could be flavored as cold and emotionless Spock types, with that hint of emotional outbreak just behind the surface.   - Shadowfell and Feywild: should be obvious what to do here, to not tread on Warlocks they could be drawing power directly from the plane and not a type of creature. Let them do weird movement stuff by jumping in and out, draw shadows out and become incorporeal, draw Fey power and gain barkskin effects (maybe add Shileleagh for that CHA beater everyone wants ;)   - Lycanthropes: Why the hell not ;)   Any other cool ideas?
#2 Lord_Ventnor Sep 03, 2014 10:40:26	I always thought that the two Sorcerer Variations in 4e's Arcane Power splatbook were pretty cool.   There was the Cosmic Sorcerer, who drew his magic from the heavens. The way his spells and class features worked were changable like the Chaos Sorcerer, but those changes were always predictable. He would go from the Phase of the Sun, where his spells tended to be more damaging, to the Phase of the Moon, where his spells were more defensive, to the Phase of the Stars, where his spells were more tricksy, and then back to Sun again. I think it could be a pretty interesting subclass that could reward Sorcerers who choose to invest in their Intelligence stat (need to study the movement of the heavenly bodies to fully unlock the secret of your magic).   There was also the Tempest Sorcerer, who drew power from thunderstorms, which is fairly iconic. Sorcerers would need to learn how to cast more lightning spells, of course, but it could be pretty awesome. I imagine that the subclass would be differentiated from the Blue Dragon Sorcerer by being focused on all aspects on the Storm. Sonic damage, riding the lighting, torrential downpours and all that good stuff. I could see one of their big powers being the ability to actually assume the form of a storm itself, whether by way of souped-up gaseous form with lightning or becoming some kind of storm elemental.
#3 mellored Sep 03, 2014 10:44:52	Wild mages where pretty popular.  So they where added.
(Reply to #3) ManoVega	mellored wrote:
#5 mellored Sep 03, 2014 11:05:33	ManoVega wrote:
#6 Sorxores Sep 03, 2014 11:35:05	Lord_Ventnor wrote:
#7 Hailrobonia Sep 03, 2014 11:53:08	I agree that they should have been left for a splat book. The wild magic side effects can derail a game in no time... I see many effects which would be TPK for a low level party. Add in the fact that this is yet another thing for the DM to keep track of (the rule "whenever the DM wants" seems too arbitrary), and it seems like it is a bad idea for the basic game.   And finally, my real objection is the type of player that classes like these attracts. Yeah, I am sure there are all sorts of mature, fun-to-game-with people out there playing wild mages, but this class just reeks of  "look at me! I am messing up the game because CHAOS! Wooh-hoo! WILD CARD BABY!"
#8 awaken_D_M_golem Sep 03, 2014 12:38:22	Mechanical strength of it, is a different idea than whether fluff-wise it existed or not.   1e and 2e Chaotic aligned planes varied 20% up to 100% on Limbo, that any Transmutation spell had a side effect. Mixing Potions created a variable effect 1e 2e and 3e. Wild Magic areas in Faerun and Forgotten Realms. Wild Magic as a planar trait made it into the 3e SRD. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#wildMagic     So ... it doesn't float your boat, eh?
#9 Kentus Sep 03, 2014 12:58:04	In the end, Wild Magic isn't as wild as you might think. There are 50 effects and only 10 are usually considered bad, one can kill you at the beginner levels, but even if you have to roll the d20 for Wild Magic Surge every time, the chance to trigger a negative effect is about 1% and to cast a fireball centered on yourself is 0,2%. The rest of the effects are either not directly killing you (or your party members), can sway between good and bad considering position (making other creatures invisible for example) and 22 of the possible outcomes are normally positive. As long as you don't overdo it with Tide of Chaos, you'll survive most likely the first few levels (unless a foe will slay you... or your party), while having the possibility to bring doom to your enemies.   The reasons why Wild Mages are popular and why I do think it's a good addition to the PHB is simply: It's fun. A lot of players do enjoy having their fate deciding on rolls and Wild Magic just brings it to an extreme. While having good chances of getting a good result at the Wild Magic Surge table, the real fun lies in escaping the bad ones. If I wouldn't DM, I'd definitely play a Wild Magic Sorcerer, who is afraid of his powers (for the right reasons), while searching a way to actually control it.   To be honest, imo most of the Pathfinder Bloodlines are dull. Yes, you can alter your heritage, but it won't change, that is it a heritage, instead of taking other takes of the class (and it'd be hard to design a decent Fey Bloodline, when the Enchanter is so good); it's just a bit of a changing stats instead of changing the feeling you get out of the character. Storm Magic and Cosmos Magic were pretty nice, but considering that we got away from a power-system, using the same spells again, there is not really that much spell-support for a Cosmos Magic for now (since sticking to the iconics), while Storm Magic could be made, but maybe there were reasons to shift it back (like bringing it up for the Eberron Campaign Setting, while observing what the players are wishing for the Sorcerer). And making a subclass which doesn't need to care about balance (since more randomly) is much easier and faster.   Some may be disappointed, others (like me) were smiling after the announcement and singing in joy, after reading. And after thinking a bit disappointed, too, since the usually good effects outweight the usually bad ones. If you're afraid of blasting your away, take a Tiefling or a Dragonborn for Fire Restistance. Or maybe a Gnome for Gnome's Cunning.
#10 2Chlorobutanal Sep 03, 2014 18:47:33	I'm interested in playing a Wild Mage more for Bend Fate than Wild Surge, but Wild Surge is fun too.   Since some of the Wild Surge results, such as the dreaded self-fireball, say "you cast a ...", couldn't you take Careful Spell and guard against some Wild Surge results that way- or use Empowered Spell to re-roll high dice into lower ones?  Granted, I probably wouldn't bother spending a Metamagic slot for Careful Spell, but I think it'd be an option for "cautious" Wild Mages.   I think Dragon Sorcerer is major boring, uh, stuff.  I'm sure it appeals to a lot of players, but I'd find it extremely dull if the only Sorcerer option involved elemental affinity and being all dragon-like.  If Wild Mages didn't exist, I probably wouldn't even care about Sorcerers at this point in my 5E exploration.
#11 ManoVega Sep 03, 2014 19:22:36	I agree that Dragon sorceror is pretty dull, but it's way more powerful than Wild mage. Plus you are only thinking about yourself if you bring a Wild mage to the table, that fireball is gonna hurt everyone in your party too. I would probably roll up a monk Mage Slayer as retibution ;P   I like the idea they had for sorceror's and metamagic, but with WIzards and Warlocks running around casting spells like only the sorceror used to do, they kinda left them out to dry. They really should have gone for the uber thematic to make them different. Then again, they kinda did the same thing to the ranger, now that everyone can be a twin bladed archer tracker, and the warrior is better at it.
#12 Ath-kethin Sep 03, 2014 19:34:15	When the Wild Mage was introduced back in 2nd edition, they had to roll on a table every time they cast a spell. That roll would determine whether the spell came out at the intended level, slightly higher level, slightly lower level, or caused a wild surge. Its puzzling time why a similar table was not included in this edition's PHB, but maybe we will see it in the DM Guide. Wild Mages were also able to influence and possibly control chaotic,variable magic items like a deck of many things. Maybe that will be in the DMG as well.
(Reply to #11) 2Chlorobutanal	ManoVega wrote:
#14 Jordan175 Sep 04, 2014 0:14:31	Lord_Ventnor wrote:
(Reply to #14) 2Chlorobutanal	Jordan175 wrote:
#16 Szenden Sep 04, 2014 14:32:41	I for one have enjoyed having a wild sorcerer companion. Initially during character creation she was going towards draconic, but after our the guy who became our fighter and I (the one who would become our group multi-classed party face) mentioned how fun it would be to have constant party drawbacks (in particular having her possibly become a potted plant) she changed her mind. It's been wonderful, as our DM decided to call her out on every spell, so we've had hilarious and terrible times as a group. That's probably why it's one of the subclasses released in the PHB, you know? At the end of the day, the game is played to have FUN, and the wild sorcerers hit that nail on the head.
(Reply to #16) ManoVega	Szenden wrote:
(Reply to #6) Benz74	The limited amount of Archtypes (subclasses, paths or whatever they're called -- don't have the PHB with me right now...) per class is probably limited because of space limitations, not bc the designers lack imagination. For example, only 3 animal totems are listed for the barbarian Totem Dude subclass... More options would've been nice... Same goes for almost all the classes.    They promised not to publish endless splat books, but surely more subclass options will be found in the upcoming DMG, or Campaign setting corebooks like the Forgotten Realms.   ----     ("Surely you can't be serious?" ; "I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.")
#19 ManoVega Sep 05, 2014 14:20:28	They took an entire page to make a random d00 roll for wild surges. Surely they could have fit 2-3 subclasses in there, Shirley ;)
#20 MykeSchultz Sep 05, 2014 18:07:42	I have nothing for or against wild mages (granted, I would be leary of one at Encounters, depending on the player's apparent maturity), but I wanted the page count in PHB 5ed to be maximized with as many builds as possible, especially, given that who knows when more builds are going to be introduced? (I hate waiting for new stuff when a new edition comes out. Hence, why I usually don't play a new edition until long after it first comes out; I'm like a completist and options freak, I guess). Thus, give us as much material as you can to tide us over. So an entire page with random wild magic effects does peturb me some, but nowhere near how in the human section (or whatever it is) where it explains for 2 pages all the language dialects of common of the forgotten realms (WTF?). At least a lot of folk find the wild mage fun, but I have yet to meet one person who cares about the common language dialects of the FR. That was a total waste, a total facepalm, imo. Note: I like the appedencies. They probably could have skipped out on the real world mythos though imo, but I understand why it was in there. And I like sorcerers, but have yet to check out the section.  But I'm a tad disappointed in the options, thus far. I myself like storm sorcerers.
#21 Fralex Sep 06, 2014 1:23:58	But the Wild Magic Surge Table doesn't have to be limited to wild sorcerers. It's a great DM tool as well to handle any situation where something magical malfunctions. You could even recreate the Rod of Wonder using this table. I think it was page well-spent!
(Reply to #21) ManoVega	Fralex wrote:
(Reply to #22) Fralex	ManoVega wrote:
#24 Pyromantic Sep 07, 2014 7:58:39	I, personally, detest wild mages about as much as I could imagine disliking a class option.  At the same time I really like sorcerers, so having only one remaining option is disappointing to me.  I would mind the presence of the wild mage a lot less if there was another sorcerer subclass or two.  It's not like there's a lack of ideas for them.   Of course, no one is going to like every option presented or to have everything they would like to have.  There are also plenty of other characters I'm interested in playing; indeed I think this PHb has more character builds that interest me than the first PHbs for 3rd or 4th edition, so I can't complain that much.
#25 wills2009 Sep 07, 2014 10:25:08	Pyromantic wrote: