Wild Shape: Brown Bear

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

GentlemanLoser

Sep 25, 2014 0:04:08

Sorry if this has been mentioned before (I'm sure it must have, but the search failed me!), but at low levels, how does anything compare to a Wild Shaped Brown Bear?

 

A level 2 Druid (of the Moon) can assume the form of a Brown Bear, twice per rest, for two hours each.

 

A Brown Bear gives the Druid the following stats;

 

Str: 19, Dex: 10, Con: 16

Average HP: 34 (4d10 Hit Dice)

AC: 11

Two attacks, one for 1d8, the other for 2d6

 

First the attacks.  Sure, at second level other Classes can have two attacks (from Dual Wield) but unless you're a Fighter/Ranger 1, you won't get Strength on the off hand weapon.  Also, one ofthe Bears attacks is equivalent to a Greatsword.

 

The Bear, in essence gets to Dual Wield a Greatsword and another non light weapon.  For nothing.

 

On to the Hit Points,

 

A Druid at level 2 could potentially have around 26 hit points naturally.  Shifting into a Bear twice would give an extra 68 Hit Points on top of that.

 

No other class can get a Hit Point total of 94 at second level.

 

It also might be possible to take a short rest as a Bear and use the Bears four 1d10+3 hit dice to recover with.

 

 

Really, is there anything that can compete with a Druid of the Moon at low levels?

#2

greensparcs

Sep 25, 2014 0:08:05

personally I like the Giant spider.

 

Armor Class 14 (natural armor)
Hit Points 26 (4d10 + 4)
Speed 30ft., climb 30ft.
STR
14 (+2)
DEX
16 (+3)
Skills Stealth +7
CON
12 (+1)
INT
2 (-4)
WIS
11 (+0)
CHA
4 (-3)
Senses blindsight 10ft., darkvision 60ft., passive Perception 10

Spider Climb. The spider can climb difficult surfaces, including
upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an
ability check.
Web Sense. While in contact with a web, the spider knows the
exact location of any other creature in contact with the same web.
Web Walker. The spider ignores movement restrictions caused
by webbing.
ACTIONS
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature.
Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3) piercing damage, and the target must make a
DC 11 Constitution saving throw, taking 9 (2d8) poison damage
on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
If the poison damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, the
target is stable but poisoned for 1 hour, even after regaining hit
points, and is paralyzed while poisoned in this way.
Web (Recharge 5-6}. Ranged Weapon Attack: +5 to hit,
range 30f60 ft., one creature. Hit: The target is restrained by
webbing. As an action, the restrained target can make a DC
12 Strength check, bursting the webbing on a success. The
webbing can also be attacked and destroyed (AC 10; hp 5;
vulnerability to fire damage; immunity to bludgeoning, poison,
and psychic damage).
To snare its prey, a giant spider spins elaborate webs
or shoots sticky strands of webbing from its abdomen.
Giant spiders are most commonly found underground,
making their lairs on ceilings or in dark, web-filled
crevices. Such lairs are often festooned with web
cocoons holding past victims.

 

#3

FluffyBunbunKittens

Sep 25, 2014 2:29:15

I rather like the Giant Hyena - AC 12, HP 45, speed 50 feet (!), +5 to hit, 2d6+3 damage + killing someone you can move 25 feet and make another attack as bonus action.

 

But yes, Moon Druid makes non-casters so jelly - they catch up somewhat around lv5, but the huge free temphp battery is a difficult thing to ignore. And they can stealth/climb/fly when they want.

 

And then, in a few levels the Druid turns into an elemental with resistances to everything and special features. And they're still a full caster (at full health) after that.

#4

Leugren

Sep 25, 2014 9:30:53

For a decent discussion on all things having to do with the Moon Druid, including a debate on the relative merits of various Wild Shape forms, check here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4135986.

 

#5

Illithidbix

Sep 25, 2014 12:18:15

It's pretty awesome isn't it?

 

Dire Wolf being the other CR 1 choice for me: Less damage than a brown bear but higher AC (14) and HP (37), along with pack tactics and STR saving throw or knock target prone!

 

Played a moon Druid in the playtest and they were pretty awesome there, but felt balanced, now they're even nastier!

 

It's one of the few things I've seen in the PHB that looks on paper over powerful.

 

However: I would prefer to see low level Wild Shape in actual play first before declaring it OVERPOWDERED!!!1!!one!!.

 

In my experience plenty of stuff in games that appear overpowered on paper, actually work out fine or even kinda weak in actual play.

If (and only if) it is overpowerful in a way that is  "Less fun for the other players"(tm) would I go ahead and nerf it.

 

My suggestions for Nerfs

 

1) After you have shifted out of Beast Form you cannot use Wild Shape for 1 minute  (10 rounds) 

(Regardless of whether the shift was voluntary or not)

To prevent shifting into a bear, then shifting immediately back in again as you loose all your bear hitpoints.

 

- This also deals with people whining about ArchDruid!

 

And/OR

 

2) Reduce Wild Shape Max CR for level 2 and 3 Moon Druids.
CR 1/2 for 2nd and 3rd level moon druids (Black Bears and Crocodiles) [Hell the Black bear still has 19 HP, like a 2nd level Fighter, but far lower AC and more reasonable attacks]
CR 1 for 4-5 Druids (Brown Bears and Dire Wolves)
CR 2 for level 6 etc (and continue with CR Level/3 from then on)

 

 

I'm wondering if we'll see something like this in the first errata.

#6

Ocule

Sep 25, 2014 21:14:45

Its not broken at all. The circle of the moon druid actually is fairly helpless once his 2 uses are expended so its really not that unbalanced. Some good utlity spells but all the best ones are granted by the circle of the land, also the low armor class, lack of spellcasting while shapeshifted and there is a spell called moonbeam that throws them out of there form and does a ton of damage. Also polymorph is probably a good counter as well.