Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 whitishknight Oct 24, 2014 7:43:18	I'm making a new character that will start at 1 but will get to level 3 pretty quickly. My party's attendance varies so there may or may not be healers, tanks, party faces, skill monkeys, or damage-dealers at any given session. Bard seems to be the obvious choice but my last character (a level 3 valor bard with a focusing in grappling) didn't seem to be too interesting besides grappling one opponent per encounter (which, to be fair, basically removed that opponent from combat).   I'm thinking about making a lore bard, but I understand that damage-dealing will probably be a problem. I'm hoping that a wizard's spells, with their powerful controller effects, may eliminate the need for tanks, damage-dealing, and healer roles when the need arises. Alternatively, I know that the druid could cover the tank and healer roles easily but they don't appear to have much in the way of out-of-combat utility.    Thoughts?
#2 IxidorRS Oct 24, 2014 8:27:46	Druid could cover tank, healer, and controller once you get to L5 and have Conjure Animals. Put a beast or two on every target. At 7th Level, you can use Giant Insect to drop a Giant Scorpion which can very well tank a combat for you against lower level enemies (Only +4 to hit, sadly). Also at 7th level and probably more impressive you can use Conjure Woodland Beings to summon 8 Pixies which gives you 8 uses of Sleep, Polymorph, Fly, Dispel Magic, and Entangle. Remember that Polymorph uses the CR/Level of the target rather than the caster for what it can transform into.   And Wild Shape is incredibly versatile. I don't know why you'd say it's less versatile than the Bard. So many options including some very good ones.
#3 mellored Oct 24, 2014 8:27:23	The ability of the wizard to swap spells makes him pretty good for variable parties. If the rogue is out, memorize disguise self. If the face is out, memorize charm. If you need control, get greese. If you need damage, get magic missile. If you need to tank, get false life. ect...   They have the biggest spell list, but lack damage.   Druids spells tend to be slightly weaker, but they do get healing. Moons are pretty good at tanking.   Bards can do more-ish, but they can't change spells.   So they kinda require the party to remain the same.     All and all, i'd say wizard.
(Reply to #3) whitishknight	mellored wrote:
#5 IxidorRS Oct 24, 2014 9:09:45	I think the reason there isn't too much discussion is that they're fairly straightfoward. There's a few really interesting things you can do such as Warlck2/Abjuration WizardX which gives you an at-will Abjuration to recharge your Arcane Ward. Necromancy Wizards can have insane amounts of minions to attack with. Conjuration Wizards make Conjurations sooooo good at Level 10+ play (but they have less options for summons and some not as good as the Druid's options, see my signature).
#6 Timborama Oct 24, 2014 9:11:15	Bard's are very versatile, but limited in their versatility. Remember, with Magical Secrets, as versatile as it is, you can ONLY cast that spell. So if there's only 1-2 spells you feel you really need at those levels, go Bard. If there are too many to choose from, go Wizard or Druid. Granted, you're sorta like Batman in the fact that given the chance to prepare for an outcome (say, 8 hours or so), you're unbeatable. But if you're caught in an unwinnable scenario, you have to rely on your friends or your ability to escape and THEN prepare for that scenario...   To decide between the two, choose flavor or what types of versatility you're looking for. Scouting/parading as an animal who can also tank if needed, or having just the right spell. Remember Druids have a nice spell list, but Wizards have the best. But, that being said, they are indeed different! So look at what is different to cast between the two, which of those you'd prefer, and factor in Wildshape. THEN you should have your answer!   Also consider Tome Pact Warlock, because they get the best ritual casting in the game. It's even better than a Wizard or Druid's version!   (though honestly, Lore and Valor bards play vastly differently. I would suggest to maybe give Lore a try and see what happens!)
(Reply to #5) whitishknight	IxidorRS wrote:
#8 Varisthenes Oct 24, 2014 9:18:13	I generally agree with Wizards being best but keep in mind that a lot of a Wizard's versatility is tied up in rather or not your DM allows you to have access to many spells. A Druid gets its whole spell list up front.
#9 Yunru Oct 24, 2014 9:18:22	Because while they're numerous they're not complex.
#10 whitishknight Oct 24, 2014 9:54:01	Looking at the wizard's list, they might be able to substitute for a tank with the four undead from animate dead at level 5 but a cleric, druid, or bard (level 6) would be able to do similar with their spells. They might also be able to be the face and skill monkey with charm person, invisibility, knock, and disguise self which I guess the cleric and druid wouldn't be able to duplicate. That looks about it... I get the feeling that the wizard doesn't start to pull ahead against the other caster classes until about level 11 for the 6th level spells like contingency and magic jar that open up a lot of new possibilities that are otherwise unavailable.
#11 IxidorRS Oct 24, 2014 10:13:06	whitishknight wrote:
#12 mellored Oct 24, 2014 10:18:00	whitishknight wrote:
(Reply to #12) whitishknight	mellored wrote:
#14 mellored Oct 24, 2014 10:38:36	whitishknight wrote:
(Reply to #14) whitishknight	mellored wrote:
#16 mellored Oct 24, 2014 11:14:25	whitishknight wrote: