I have been playing with a new group a few times now and we started playing 5e, I am playing a bard and am currently getting into lore since I want to be more of a spellcaster then a swordsman and I want lots of skills to help my allies in battle however I am quickly realizing that the wizard in our party kinda can do everything I can and waay better making my character feel pretty damn useless overall..
Wizards are just damn amazing in 5e with all they can do and I really want to feel needed to the group and feel like I am actually helping rather then just wasting spell slots...I am still an early level, I am currently level 4. What can I do to upgrade my bard into being more useful so I can make a differance in our group and for this campaign? Should I multi-class? (despite how much I am against it x.x) or is there some other way to vamp up my bard in ways a wizard can't and quickly?
RoguishDelight wrote:
get to level 5. you get alot more insperation dice to throw around. which should be turning hit's into misses, especially with lore cutting words. also, you can heal. and make sure to use your skills and expertise.
though, without knowing more of your party, it's hard to say.
FrogReaver wrote:
mellored wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
RoguishDelight wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
In general this wizard and his player sound about as fun as sitting on a tack.
Valraukar wrote:
I'm sorry you have to play with such a sour sounding individual, but that doesn't mean that you can't still kick ass!
First, make the flavor text of your performances with so much flow flow flair, flamboyance, and panache that your DM will ignore the mewling complaints of this trailers wizard churlish wizard.
Second, use your social superiority as often as you can, including just before and during combats.
Third, spell selection. From the sounds of it your party likely does not need healing or spell damage. I'd focus on spells that cripple opponents & make combat delicious for your allies:
- Keep dissonant whispers
- 1st level spells: consider faerie fire. Advantage is ALWAYS good. Tasha's hideous laughter.
- 2nd level: hold person (auto crits), suggestion
Finally, perhaps have a word with the DM &/or the Wizards player about his conduct. He shouldn't be crapping on your performances or telling you your character is "unneeded". So rude.
Valraukar wrote:
It's interesting to me how much individual perceptions can vary. I'm playing a Lore bard, as well, I can't even imagine feeling useless. I feel like my character is good at everything.
Anyway, I agree with a lot of the advice that's been posted so far.
As FrogReaver stated already, you won't be able to outdamage the evocation wizard ... but the Bard does have plenty of magicks that the wizard does not. Here is a list of low-level spells that do not appear on the wizard list. (I bold-faced the ones that also don't appear on the druid or paladin spell list).
- 1st ~ Animal Friendship, Bane, Cure Wounds, Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire, Healing Word, Heroism, Speak with Animals
- 2nd ~ Animal Messenger, Calm Emotions, Enhance Ability, Enthrall, Heat Metal, Lesser Restoration, Locate Animals or Plants, Silence, Zone of Truth
- 3rd ~ Plant Growth, Speak with Dead, Speak with Plants,
- 4th ~ Compulsion, Freedom of Movement
If you really want to make sure that you can cast spells the wizard can't, then choose spells he doesn't have access to. Start with with the ones on this list above ... but rememeber, at 6th level, the Lore Bard can also choose any two spells from any list. That opens the door for a lot more spells that wizards can't cast. Here is a list of 3rd level spells you can pick-up that the wizard doesn't hace access to. (There are plenty of 1st and 2nd spells, too, but I don't have all day to sit here).
- 3rd ~ Aura of Vitality, Beacon of Hope, Blinding Smite, Call Lightning, Conjure Animals, Conjure Barrage, Create Food and Water, Crusader's Mantle, Daylight, Elemental Weapon, Hunger of Hadar, Mass Healing Word, Lightning Arrow, Meld into Stone, Revivify, Spirit Guardians, Water Walk, Windwall
Bear in mind, I'm not saying that you should never pick-up a spell that the wizard can cast (because, sometimes it's helpful when multiple party members can cast the same spell). I'm just saying that by doing so, you are pretty much making sure that you can do something he can't. I mean, he certianly can't revivify himself.
Also, I think it's important to think about all the non-spellcasting things the Bard can do.
- You probably have more skills than he does (unless he's playing a half-elf and has the skilled feat, while you have neither. Otherwise, you should have a lot more skills than he does).
- With Expertise and Jack-of-all-trades, you get double proficiency on two skills and half proficiency on all the skills you're not proficient in. I realize that actual skill usage varies between groups, but in my games skills are quite important. Even in a hack-and-slash game, as you describe, at least jack-of-all-trades benefits your initiative rolls. That's something.
- Bardic Inspiration. Nobody else gets this and its quite handy. Once you get Fountain of Inspiration, it becomes three times as useful. Whenever one of these dice becomes the difference between success and failure, just remember: you did that. That's your handiwork. When the Paladin spends your BI die to land a big smite, that's your smite. When the druid spends the BI to make a saving throw, that's your saving throw. You just saved him. When you use cutting words to make the big bad miss the wizard, well, you just saved the squishy wizard from almost certian death (though maybe you don't want to save him, heh).
- Also, you have better weapon and armor proficiencies, more hit dice, yada yada.
- EDIT: Oh, I totally forgot about Song of Rest. Having Song of Rest is almost like getting an extra HD every time you take a short rest.
Bards are pretty cool.
This is the same player that you posted about before, right?
Seriously, he can't "allow" or disallow fudge-all. The DM does. Stop playing with this guy or make the DM put on their big boy pants and control the game. You're basically asking how to go behind this guy's back and subvert or filibuster his actions, because you don't want to take him on directly. You need to be direct. He may not change even then, but he definitely won't change if you do nothing.
Anyway, as others have said, a wizard just does better damage than a bard, and an Evocation wizard does more damage still. Comparing damage, the bard will lose. Wizards also get a ton of utility spells, so he's probably going to be roughly as good as you at out-of-combat challenges. You beat him in skill utility, though. Engineer situations where your skills are useful, or work with your DM to bring these situations about (like suggesting a quest that involves talking to various parties and bringing them together, to use whatever social skills you're good at).
As for playing in bars for money, again, your DM needs to wear the pants in this relationship. They should absolutely not be intimidated by another player into reducing your rewards. They should be working with you to reward your actions. This should be a good use of your specialties.
Finally, healing and buffing other party members is where the wizard will never beat you. He can blow stuff up, but that isn't the answer to every problem. (Or it shouldn't be; again, talk to your DM if you feel the rest of the party isn't being challenged properly.) Unfortunately, that means that the bard's impact can be hard to see, because it's in the background behind everyone else's actions. Learn to notice where you made a difference and feel good about it. You're a force multiplier, not a force in yourself.
RoguishDelight wrote:
The Wizard, or perhaps its player, sound like a jerk. It's like he sees D&D as a competition, and he's trying to "win". It can suck to play with people like that.
My advice? Don't heal him. Ever. If he has everything covered, and you're not needed, he's obviously got all the answers. Though I'm likely being petty when I say that.
I think most of this just stems from your relationship with the player, and you perhaps comparing yourself directly to their character. I played a bard as well at low levels, and even though there were TWO wizards in the party (Abjuration AND Evocation) AND a Cleric, I didn't feel like I was outshined because we all had our own way of doing things. It helped that we were team players as well.
Also, performing at places usually isn't going to get you a lot of scratch, in real life and in game. The reason? The DM plans on how players get their wealth ahead of time, and isn't likely to throw large sums around between. 10 copper represents I believe multiple days of work for a poor man, so to get that in a few hours is actually pretty good in comparison, and it was money you didn't have before.
Not sure how he has *that* much more money in order to buy that many potions....
Don't sweat the money from performing, it wouldn't have been much anyway. (though he was still a douchebag about it)
I *love* our bard.... Inspiration is a great safety net, Healing Words is bonus level healing, the Resting Healing boost can be a big help.... last encounter Hold Person turned a deadly encounter into a fairly easy one. Heat Metal is a crazy good spell. Faerie Fire giving advantage... crazy good.
Does the Druid to melee or ranged?
Toss them both an inspiration when you can, help them heal, Faerie Fire or Heat Metal their opponents, etc. They should love you.... Let the wizard play his own game, you and the other two can still work together.
If the wizard is being an ass, just give insperation, temp HP and healing to the other characters since he obviously doesn't need it.
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While not your specific situation, sit back as I tell a yarn from the early days of 3rd edition....
It was one of our very first 3rd edition games and we were all pretty new to the rules. I made a wizard. Another player made a sorcerer. I wasn't playing smart at first, and memorized a bunch of damage dealing spells. Each day I'd cast a fireball and a magic missile or two and I'd be out for the count, while the sorcerer could load up with fireballs on Sunday and cast all week. Pretty soon the sorcerer was cracking jokes about how useless I was and how soon every mage would be a sorcerer.
That night I went over my spellbook. I did my best to diversify, I did not memorize the same spell twice. The next day, I was ready for anything...once. I was able to leap over a chams with a jump spell, unlock a door (we had no rogue) with a knock spell, and remove a magical barrier with a dispel magic spell. Soon even the sorcerer was impressed. By the time it was over we were no longer competing, but working together. I'd cast fly and improved invisibility on him while he rained down fireballs of devastation!
The moral of this story is, do not try to be better than the wizard at what he does, but be the best at what a bard does. Then you can work together!
well part compisiton is part of the problem. bardic isperation, fairy fire, and free crits doesn't help with saves.
lack of rp is another part. if you can't use your skills, then bards lose another chunk of what makes them special.
but it mostly sounds like a personal issue with the wizard.
Baptor wrote:
And what are bards best at? Crazy support, debuffs, and generally turning the tide in your favor. Enemy drops a fireball on a bunch of allied NPC guards? Use Cutting Words and the damage could be reduced enough to turn a massacre into an enraged swarm. Your assassin buddy needs to get that first shot in? Make her to-hit go through the roof with your inspiration. Decide you want to diplomacy the BBEG into thinking he should renounce his ways and join the side of good--after switching all his current political connections to you, of course? Peerless Skill. Enjoy bragging to the wizard about the pet army you got with your 45+ diplomacy check.
Who's unneeded now?
Next time you get attacked, drop Faerie Fire on the Wizard followed by Silence and then retreat to a safe distance to enjoy the show... 
First you are a BARD, jack of all trade, master of none, he his a wizard, master of the arcane art.
So no you will NEVER beat him in the arcane art. Even going Lore to become even more a spellcaster, even if you took everything to become the best bard spellcaster you still will not reach the power of the Wizard in the arcane art, and specially not in the flashy big explosion if he's an Evocation wizard. you took the class Jack of all trade master of none.
First he can only cast 1 concentration spell so you can COMPLEMENT him, so if he haste the paladin you can go ahead and haste the druid. or cast Hold person on the ennemy, or Bestow curse.
Then you should have better support spell. in your 1st elvel list you have Faeri fire, the wizard could NEVER dream of having such a good support spell., use it, use Faeri Fire often, this is YOUR role, you will never outdamage him (specially by going Lore) but you can be a WAY better suppor then him (but the druid and cleric should be better then you). Healing word is an other great spell that the wizard will never be able to emulate, casting as a bonus action a spell to bring the paladin back from being unconsious. Yes healing word is useless as a combat heal, the fighter down to 4 hit point, giving him an other 4 will rarely help, specially now that you are level 5, but bringing the paladin from 0 to 4 hp this is HUGE and the Wizard no matter how he try will NEVER be able to do that.
Then you have bardic inspiration to add 1d8 to anyone roll as a bonus action, so make sure you use it, I don't know many paladin who will refuse an extra d8 to hit his ennemy. you can even use those to reduce the enemy attack roll and damage, once again very usefull and stack on top of anything the wizard can do.
Don't try to beat him in the arcane art, specially in the magic damage department. But you can beat him in support, yes casting Haste on the barbarian and look at the barbarian shredd the dragon in piece is not as exciting as being the barbarian and shredding the dragon yourself or as exciting as casting fireball killing the entire army of kobold, but you choose the be a bard and that what the bard his, he's the support class who stay behind and support the party, tuen your lute and be ready to cast hold person on the monster so the paladin can have an automatic critical hit with his divine smite and deal insane damage BECAUSE YOU HELPED HIM.
You are support your role is to stay behind and help your team, you are the polish allowing the other team member to shine.
When the barbarian think that his indestructible and fall in combat it's YOUR job to healin gword him back up, then cast a vicious mockery on his ennemy so he can survive next round.
When the barbarian need to succeed his next attack it's your job to give him inspiration so he doesn't miss.
Don't forget even if the wizard is better then you in the arcana art, he's still limited to a single concentration spell, so you can cast a second one and help the party greatly that way. and where the wizard specialized in dealing damage with big flashy evocation spell, you specialize in subtle magical effect making your team effort stronger then the sum of their parts.