Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Rigol May 25, 2015 4:17:07	I'm going to be switching from a Cleric to a Wizard character, but I noticed that it feels like a drop in power. Can anyone help - am I missing something?   Here are my key thoughts: - Everyone praises how Wizards can draw from a wide range of spells to prepare from their spell book. But Clerics can prepare from the full list of Cleric spells without having to get them into a spellbook first. - People might say Wizards have Arcane Recovery, giving them more spells to cast each day, while Clerics do not. True. But Clerics get Channel Divinity and Divine Intervention which give plenty of extra power beyond spells. - People say Wizards have the extra benefit of being able to cast any ritual spell from their spellbook without having to prepare it, giving the Wizard much greater variety of spells between rests. But Clerics all get many extra spells according to their Domain, none of which require preparation. At all levels a Cleric will tend to have many more spells available and by level 20 it ends up with about 8 more spells prepared (that's 10 for Cleric's Domain minus 2 for the two free preparations a Wizard gets at level 20). I'm not sure that a Wizard's ability to cast ritual spells from a spell book is as useful as what Clerics have. - The Cleric has more weapon proficiencies and often more skills (depending on domain). - The Cleric doesn't have to worry about losing a spellbook. (Yes, you could say a Cleric could be 'cut off' by their deity, but that seems much less of a day-to-day worry than losing a spellbook). - The Cleric has more hit points and far better armour. It's scary how a Wizard's magic ability can be switched off just by putting them in a bit of armour.   It seems like the only thing in Wizards' favour is a larger, slightly more diverse spell list in the rulebook and a few nice abilities. I love the Wizards' 18th and 20th level abilities, but they don't knock the Cleric ones out of the park at all.   What do you think? Are Clerics only balanced with Wizards if the DM enforces a lot of roleplaying restrictions on the pious Cleric? Am I wrong?   I guess I must be wrong, as the threads in this forum seem to rank Wizards among the most potent of career choices.   Thanks for any pointers.   Mike
#2 Saeviomagy May 25, 2015 4:42:00	Wizard spells are simply better than anyone elses, and the fact they get extra casts per day amplifies that. Additionally, wizard school abilities are no slouch. Every school is incredibly powerful. Cleric channel abilities are neat tricks. Every wizard school has a game changer.
#3 TheNovaLord May 25, 2015 4:42:16	Stop thinking about power and you will enjoy it more. Both have lots stuff to do in play so don't overthink. Plenty more numeric rpgs out there for such things
#4 Treantmonklvl20 May 25, 2015 5:56:11	Rigol wrote:
#5 Rigol May 27, 2015 14:05:12	Thanks for the responses. All cool.
#6 FallingIcicle May 27, 2015 20:40:09	Rigol wrote:
#7 Zardnaar May 27, 2015 21:53:32	Depends I think around three cleric subclasses are really good and four wizard subclasses are good. So if you have one of the best clerics vs one of the worst wizards yeah I could see them sucking.
#8 mellored May 28, 2015 5:29:55	You don't lose the ability to cast spells if you lose your spell book.   You just can't change the spells you have prepaired.
#9 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 28, 2015 7:37:58	I think one of the things to remember about 5e is that the almost at-will nature of spell lists makes casters really complex to play. Extraordinarily so. It isn't easy to keep track of 15 options at 8th level let alone 30 or so at 20th. The weakness of Wizards is that if you can't handle complexity, you're probably spamming the same 2-5 spells in every combat and occasionally remembering the other spells you have. And then being a Wizard is a lot weaker than being a Cleric.
#10 FunkySpunk May 28, 2015 21:00:36	I think part of the underlying issue here is that clerics have traditionally been the role of the last player at the table.    "Everybody else has characters? Well, we need a cleric, I guess I'll play one."   They have a reputation of being a boring, portable band-aid. Nobody wants to be a band-aid.    D&D has been fighting that stereotype for a long time and needs to add incentives for players to choose them.
(Reply to #10) Ashrym	FunkySpunk wrote:
(Reply to #10) Zardnaar	FunkySpunk wrote:
#13 FunkySpunk May 28, 2015 21:57:04	IDK. I didn't play much of 3e. I don't know what a codzilla is.    I played a ton of basic, 1e and 2e before taking a really long break from this game.
(Reply to #13) Ashrym	FunkySpunk wrote:
#15 Mazzy May 29, 2015 2:09:39	Rigol wrote:
#16 Treantmonklvl20 May 29, 2015 5:28:42	FunkySpunk wrote:
#17 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 29, 2015 7:07:08	FunkySpunk wrote:
(Reply to #12) AdrastusDarke	Zardnaar wrote:
(Reply to #10) arnwolf666	FunkySpunk wrote: