2e invisbility question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

2e invisbility question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jul 06, 2004 15:20:44 I was recently playing a game underground, and everyone including monsters had infravision.

the mage cast invisibility, and the DM ruled that creatures using infravision can still see the heat from the PC's body and can still attack without a penalty

Is this correct? or does invisibility negates infravision?
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 06, 2004 16:15:22 If the DM decides to make it this way, it is.
But normally Infravision can't do that.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 06, 2004 17:25:36 I'm with Bob on both counts. While it's not "normal" for infravision to counter invisibility your DM can certainly rule that it does. What's more, if that's the logic he's using in his campaign, it's not even a bad call. It's too much realism for me personally (invisibility is magic after all...) but in a world closer to our own it does make some sort of sense. So don't give him a bunch of heat on the subject but you might want to ask him if that's how he wanted to run it or if he actually thought that's what the rules stated. It's worth knowing that at least. ;)

If that's how he feels the ability should work then I'd suggest you take advantage of that. If he's using infravision as such then you could have better ways of making yourself invisible. For example, weaker illusion spells might mask your body heat which would normally be a very minor illusion but not so to those who see by heat patterns alone. ;)
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 06, 2004 19:57:09 I agree. Although the invisibility spell is "meant" to counter both normal and infra-vision, the DM can rule that in that particular game world that it doesn't. Of course, the DM must be consistent with this ruling, especially when it comes to NPC spellcasters/creatures attempting to use invisibility around your PC party, who all have infravision from your description.

Obviously no one had any source of light in the underground situation that you describe. Next time the mage wants to cast invisibility in total darkness, I suggest he lights a few torches or casts a light or continual light spell first. This will ruin the opponents (and allies) infravision, so the invisibility spell will work as intended.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jul 06, 2004 22:06:55 Acutally kangaroo boy thats exactly what we did the next imte we encourtered some duergar. the mage and the mage/thief cast invisibility and we used a stone that had continual light cast on it from our priest to both mask the mage and make the duergar take a minus to their attack rolls.

i think that i could convince my DM to change his ruling snice we've never had that problem even though we encountered that situation many times. we had actually switched DMs to the sixteen year old for alittle and he didnt like the fact that his umberhulks couldnt see us.

Thanks guys, but what about hide in shadows, i expect infravision copuld see that, but couldn't the thief hide in the heatemnations?
#6
zombiegleemax
Jul 07, 2004 3:53:45 There is no official ruling on hide in shadows but a few novels and game books introducted concepts for this.

Basicially (and I did it this way in my games by the way) if you were from the surface world your hide in shadows ability was next to worthless while underground (if someone had infravision). However, if you were both of an underground race and had the ability to hide in shadows you also knew how to hide in "infrashadows." So you could use hide in shadows against normal sight and infravision. But whatever you do there you're going to have to house rule it as there was no real rule ever created for it.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 07, 2004 6:14:12 I was recently playing a game underground,

Oh, that's a lot of fun. Do you prefer to play D&D underground in caves or the ever popular steam tunnels?;)
#8
zombiegleemax
Jul 07, 2004 6:27:15 I think only Monsters and Mazes was played in steam tunnels. ;)
#9
zombiegleemax
Jul 07, 2004 6:31:22 Steam tunnels? What are those? The closest I've ever encountered was the couple steam tunnel things in White Plum Mountain, are those what you mean?
#10
zombiegleemax
Jul 07, 2004 9:30:53 I can't speak for him but my guess is that was a joke regarding the old Tom Hanks movie Monsters and Mazes. You can look it up on amazon or yahoo if you're curious.
#11
varl
Jul 09, 2004 17:49:27 I like vader's ruling on seeing someone Hiding in Shadows while possessing Infravision. I've never considered HiS a magical ability, it's just a normal skill to know where to hide to obscure yourself from normal vision by using the shadows, even in broad daylight, by using the angular shadows cast by the sun off of buildings, etc. I consider it more like a camouflage-type of blending into the background than an actual wispy-like transformation.

And since Infravision doesn't care whether you're hiding in shadows since you're always giving off body heat, HiS almost always will lose to infravision under the cover of darkness IMC.
#12
zombiegleemax
Jul 10, 2004 6:28:24 Yep. it was a goof on the Tom Hanks thing, the urban legend of the teenagers that died playing D&D in steam tunnels beneath a college campus, and that little warning that was put in as a joke in some of R. Talsorian's games which said something like "Please do not role play in steam tunnels" or some such.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 06, 2004 15:20:44	I was recently playing a game underground, and everyone including monsters had infravision. the mage cast invisibility, and the DM ruled that creatures using infravision can still see the heat from the PC's body and can still attack without a penalty Is this correct? or does invisibility negates infravision?
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 06, 2004 16:15:22	If the DM decides to make it this way, it is. But normally Infravision can't do that.
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 06, 2004 17:25:36	I'm with Bob on both counts. While it's not "normal" for infravision to counter invisibility your DM can certainly rule that it does. What's more, if that's the logic he's using in his campaign, it's not even a bad call. It's too much realism for me personally (invisibility is magic after all...) but in a world closer to our own it does make some sort of sense. So don't give him a bunch of heat on the subject but you might want to ask him if that's how he wanted to run it or if he actually thought that's what the rules stated. It's worth knowing that at least. ;) If that's how he feels the ability should work then I'd suggest you take advantage of that. If he's using infravision as such then you could have better ways of making yourself invisible. For example, weaker illusion spells might mask your body heat which would normally be a very minor illusion but not so to those who see by heat patterns alone. ;)
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 06, 2004 19:57:09	I agree. Although the invisibility spell is "meant" to counter both normal and infra-vision, the DM can rule that in that particular game world that it doesn't. Of course, the DM must be consistent with this ruling, especially when it comes to NPC spellcasters/creatures attempting to use invisibility around your PC party, who all have infravision from your description. Obviously no one had any source of light in the underground situation that you describe. Next time the mage wants to cast invisibility in total darkness, I suggest he lights a few torches or casts a light or continual light spell first. This will ruin the opponents (and allies) infravision, so the invisibility spell will work as intended.
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 06, 2004 22:06:55	Acutally kangaroo boy thats exactly what we did the next imte we encourtered some duergar. the mage and the mage/thief cast invisibility and we used a stone that had continual light cast on it from our priest to both mask the mage and make the duergar take a minus to their attack rolls. i think that i could convince my DM to change his ruling snice we've never had that problem even though we encountered that situation many times. we had actually switched DMs to the sixteen year old for alittle and he didnt like the fact that his umberhulks couldnt see us. Thanks guys, but what about hide in shadows, i expect infravision copuld see that, but couldn't the thief hide in the heatemnations?
#6 zombiegleemax Jul 07, 2004 3:53:45	There is no official ruling on hide in shadows but a few novels and game books introducted concepts for this. Basicially (and I did it this way in my games by the way) if you were from the surface world your hide in shadows ability was next to worthless while underground (if someone had infravision). However, if you were both of an underground race and had the ability to hide in shadows you also knew how to hide in "infrashadows." So you could use hide in shadows against normal sight and infravision. But whatever you do there you're going to have to house rule it as there was no real rule ever created for it.
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 07, 2004 6:14:12	I was recently playing a game underground, Oh, that's a lot of fun. Do you prefer to play D&D underground in caves or the ever popular steam tunnels?;)
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 07, 2004 6:27:15	I think only Monsters and Mazes was played in steam tunnels. ;)
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 07, 2004 6:31:22	Steam tunnels? What are those? The closest I've ever encountered was the couple steam tunnel things in White Plum Mountain, are those what you mean?
#10 zombiegleemax Jul 07, 2004 9:30:53	I can't speak for him but my guess is that was a joke regarding the old Tom Hanks movie Monsters and Mazes. You can look it up on amazon or yahoo if you're curious.
#11 varl Jul 09, 2004 17:49:27	I like vader's ruling on seeing someone Hiding in Shadows while possessing Infravision. I've never considered HiS a magical ability, it's just a normal skill to know where to hide to obscure yourself from normal vision by using the shadows, even in broad daylight, by using the angular shadows cast by the sun off of buildings, etc. I consider it more like a camouflage-type of blending into the background than an actual wispy-like transformation. And since Infravision doesn't care whether you're hiding in shadows since you're always giving off body heat, HiS almost always will lose to infravision under the cover of darkness IMC.
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 10, 2004 6:28:24	Yep. it was a goof on the Tom Hanks thing, the urban legend of the teenagers that died playing D&D in steam tunnels beneath a college campus, and that little warning that was put in as a joke in some of R. Talsorian's games which said something like "Please do not role play in steam tunnels" or some such.