5 Simple Rules to Make Magic More Special

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Jan 18, 2006 19:14:09
5 Simple Rules to Make Magic More Special

Use these house-rules for low-magic campaigns, where magic is always a special treat. They are useful when you want magic to be a special thing, and are willing to give up significant magical power to achieve that goal.

1. No Magic Stores
2. Amazing 'Mundane' Items
3. Slow Spellcasting - Very Slow
4. Mundane Monsters in Rapid Combat
5. Military Engagements & Fortifications

NO “MAGIC STORES”
If you can buy it at a 'Spell-Mart,' it just isn't that special. At the very least PCs should have to join a guild or be an active priest to trade magic items, and that should be for *temporary* items such as potions and scrolls and spells, and should generally require a quest to find someone who has the item. The exception is healing and restoring spells, which should be available to members of the faith (or those properly disguised), or life becomes too deadly.

AMAZING MUNDANE ITEMS
There is nothing like a flaming greatsword in a low-magic world to make your fighters drool. These are amazingly powerful when everyone else has a normal sword, basically like a mini-artifact, especially if magic in general is nerfed. Getting a +1 sword, on the other hand, doesn't have nearly as much emotional appeal. The answer? Awesome mundane items, so that +1 sword is simply a good mundane item. This is a simple system where everything stacks:

+1 Masterwork
+1 Named & Signed by Grandmaster
+1 Special Material (by campaign, or just use adamite, mithiril, & ironwood)

Value
+1 2,000 gp
+2 8,000 gp
+3 18,000 gp (known as a legendary item)

Magical weapons and armor and other magical items could be legendary items that have been inscribed by a rune. These runes emulate the magical enchantments from the standard books. A craftsman can make a DC20 check to copy this rune onto another legendary item. An arcane caster capable of casting at least 3rd level spells may then transfer the magical essence of the rune into the other item. Any single item can have only one rune inscribed. (This reduces some of the horse-trading needs for magical items, because you can move the fire enchantment on to your favorite short-sword).

Weapon & Armor Magical Value (for DM, these should not be bought or sold)
+1 Rune 20,000 gp
+2 Rune 50,000 gp

Other Magical Items would have a value twice the DM guide value for temporary items, and 5 times for permanent items. This makes a world that is consistent and has magic, but where permanent magic items are rare. PCs generally shouldn't be allowed to craft items in a low magic world, although scrolls and potions aren't too bad as long as the value is increased per the above.

SLOW SPELLCASTING
All spell casting times are increased by one full round. It is a simple rule, and isn't overly crunchy to implement. But it will make sure that weapons will win most combats, and that magic will be focused more on divination, healing, mobility, and planned defenses. You won't see many fireballs after this is implemented, unless your sorcerer has stealth and a great spot skill.

MUNDANE MONSTERS
It isn't a low magic world if you are fighting Beholders and Liches. One Bodak or Werewolf is an immense army in a low magic world (or will soon be, once they use a small hamlet to turn into more). There are simply more secret plots. More orcs and gnolls, and they will attack in force. It shouldn't turn into Diablo, but you will have to sometimes play out battle with many opponents in order to make the rare Red Dragon seem truly inspired. The Dragon's don't even really need spellcasting ability, their breath weapons and spell-like abilities are sufficient. Instead of making tons of different kinds of goblinoid enemies, it is generally more interesting to give them different alliances, different uniforms/clothing, and different weapons.

MILITARY ENGAGEMENTS
The party's half-orc kicks down the door. "You wearing clothes of black hand!" Everybody rolls initiative. Sound familiar? If any of you have read Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series, you may know that most combats in that series take place in a battlefield or street corner where distance and terrain are important. You may also know a famous scene where Asmodeon is killed. He is surprised, and killed quickly by an unnamed attacker. Most D&D battles I've seen work the surprised way. But reducing the power of magic increases the value of good tactical combat and simple mundane defenses. A simple wooden fort or house with a locked door is much better protection in a low-magic world, as is a castle. Bar all doors, have bars over windows so sound is normally required to penetrate them. These basic defenses should be very common, and BBEG's should almost always have a protected lair. They should be aware of you before you penetrate the inner sanctum, and fights should continue along passage-ways and past walls in a more tactical fashion.

In conclusion, if you want magic to be rare and special, you can't also force everything to become more powerful. You can't have it both ways. But you can implement a few rules to still have a dynamic universe with cool items and enemies, and still get that “Wow” feeling every time something magic happens.
#2

wotc_mel

Feb 01, 2006 18:43:58
bump
#3

jaime_wolf

Feb 01, 2006 21:20:15
I've always liked the idea of a low magic campaign, but is there any chance you could explain how to make this viable given the hit dice of creatures? If it's going to be terribly difficult to get spells off due to the round increase, and there will be very few magic items, how does one overcome the huge amount of hit points of many creatures? Also, at higher levels the characters will be able to mow through most anything that doesn't have magical properties, and due to the nature of the game, sending a huge horde of lesser enemies still probably won't do much to a high level character.
#4

zombiegleemax

Feb 02, 2006 19:20:18
I've always liked the idea of a low magic campaign, but is there any chance you could explain how to make this viable given the hit dice of creatures?

Most creatures are defeated in a straight-up, melee and ranged fight. This will often occur even in moderate magic worlds. A standard party will kill as many opponents with mundane attacks as spells, even in Greyhawk. You might be Enlarged with Bull's Strength and shield other, but that can work in a low magic world too. Buffs aren't particularly high level spells.

If it's going to be terribly difficult to get spells off due to the round increase, and there will be very few magic items, how does one overcome the huge amount of hit points of many creatures?

Monsters generally have less hitpoints than the total party they are fighting. Besides, you can get up to +3 weapons without magic, at the same cost as in a magic world. That is the biggest way to make outright combat viable. The small misc. magic items and stat boosters are nice, but when you go low magic you can generally live without them.

Also, at higher levels the characters will be able to mow through most anything that doesn't have magical properties, and due to the nature of the game, sending a huge horde of lesser enemies still probably won't do much to a high level character.

Wait a second here. You can't have it both ways. Either characters will be too weak, or they will be too strong. They can't really be both, at least not at the same time. If you are talking about being too strong at high levels, you've got something backwards. Low magic parties are pretty strong at low and mid levels. They get weaker at level 10+, when equal CR in the MM usually has magic attacks that hit will or reflex. The DM has to decide whether to be fair and have those take a full round, or not. When offensive spells are rare, +1 BAB classes with weak saves look pretty good.

Your low magic world can be more CR consistent. At low level, they can take +2 or +3 CR fairly easily. At later levels they are really sore from equal CR encounters. So you don't have to think up as many excuses for an increase in the average CR. You still don't fight 1,000 CR 1 Orcs at level 15. But usually the match-ups are different.

In a low magic world, you risk more from low level opponents because your AC is lower, your damage is lower, your saves are lower, and your restoration/curing ability is lower. If you have 10 level 4 archers shoot at a level 10 party in a high magic world, they would be stopped by magic armor, natural armor, invisibility, protection from arrows, fireball, etc. In a lower magic world PCs generally have equal combat skills and worse spells. You may shoot it out, or run to cover.

Just by avoiding +4 CR encounters later in the game, you really don't need so many magic items and spells. The spells you do need are generally utility, buffs, and healing. Especially healing.
#5

the_one_true_shea_dup

Feb 04, 2006 15:53:48
This is on my list of things to get around to writing about as soon as this design firm thing flies. It is very much along this line.

Masterwork +5

...

Without too much detail, allow masterwork to go up to +5, linear increase in skill DCs, exponential increase in materials cost and most importantly, time. You don't masterwork +5 anything in less than a year. And you don't masterwork +5 anything that isn’t already +4.

Special materials and modified versions of magical +1/2/3s such as:

+3 Burning = Weapon deals +3 damage and all damage is "fire" type.
Req: must be treated with (substance).

Plenty of room to play with MW 1-5.
#6

zombiegleemax

Feb 05, 2006 13:50:14
I really like these ideas as they present a viable way of keeping magic special. They offer an alternative to the arms race of bigger and more powerful magic items which ultimately become ho-hum. High hit dice creatures would become extremely rare in a low magic game and thus would maintain celebrity status. Combats against them would become memorable events. At the same time, combat against 'lesser enemies' would become the norm.

3.5 edition makes this possible because of the wealth of tactical rules it offers. Now tactics are an important part of combat. Even low level monsters can be challenging to high level parties if they are given fortifications and use sound tactical maneuvering. This is too often overlooked because our attention is drawn to the high powered monsters that exist in the MM.

Many of those monsters were created for earlier editions of the game when the only way to challenge a mid-high level party was high HD creatures with magical properties. In those days tactics where generally unimportant. As long as you were in the same 20x50' room with an opponent you could start swinging away. Cover, reach, obstacles, flanking, etc. did not matter. The wealth of new combat rules provided by 3.5 make the type of low magic campaign presented by the OP possible.
#7

zombiegleemax

Feb 20, 2006 15:15:00
Great write up. The only thing I’d disagree on is the caster time. The name of the thread is how to make magic special and magic that is only in a supportive (and not much) role does not seem very special. In my campaign mages are rare and end up missing because of it. They are still powerful (as I’ve implemented the other suggestions you listed). I've also gone ahead and magic someone deadly to cast. Every time a spell is cast there’s a chance of it corrupting the user. The more powerful the spell, the higher the chance.
#8

bigjroni

Feb 26, 2006 19:39:08
I think the ideas presented here are very useful for running a low-magic campaign. The idea of taking masterwork up to +5 is also a good idea that I have been thinking about. However the one addition I would like to make is:

Quests to Create Magic Items

Using this method when someone needs to create a magic item they must complete some task related to the special quality. Magic would be applicable to above ‘average masterwork’ as magical enhancement bonuses would never be used. Also very few people would know what had to be done.

For example: To add the flaming quality to the weapon the player must have a powerful red dragon breathe on the sword, and then cool the sword in the dead dragon’s blood.
#9

zombiegleemax

Feb 26, 2006 23:29:20
This is one of my favorite things about a campaign. If every time I turn around I'm getting +5 boots of bouncing, I get pretty bored with them pretty quick, and start looking for the djinni powered steam trains.

As a DM, these are some of the things I personally have implemented to 'make magic more special':

1. Magic Item rarity -

Weapons/Armor - +1 magical weapons all have a story. No weapon (or item) that requires an expenditure of the mages very life-force (XP) and a significant financial expenditure is made nonchalantly. They were made with a reason, and their appearance reflects this.

Potions - As most people know, aside from spells, healing potions are one of the most significant support items a party can have. In my campaign, these occupy an interesting middle-ground. They are not overly difficult to obtain, and consequentially are not overly-difficult to make. Your local priesthood has a collection for emergencies, but you won't see a vast amount of resources dumped into them. This is where herbalism, healing spells, and the healing proficiency come into play, the primary support for healing.

On that note, Druids and Rangers especially (but not exclusively) have access to some of the more interesting healing abilities. Non-magical draughts that double the daily healing rate (above that supplied by the healing ability in and of itself), or purify a characters system (decreased poison damage, quicker recovery), or any other variety of bonuses. (Including 'Bulls Strength' type potions with a crash and additional penalties. Herbs can do some amazing things, usually at a price).
#10

cantankerous

Mar 03, 2006 9:07:19
5 Simple Rules to Make Magic More Special

Use these house-rules for low-magic campaigns, where magic is always a special treat. They are useful when you want magic to be a special thing, and are willing to give up significant magical power to achieve that goal.

1. No Magic Stores
2. Amazing 'Mundane' Items
3. Slow Spellcasting - Very Slow
4. Mundane Monsters in Rapid Combat
5. Military Engagements & Fortifications

NO “MAGIC STORES”
If you can buy it at a 'Spell-Mart,' it just isn't that special. At the very least PCs should have to join a guild or be an active priest to trade magic items, and that should be for *temporary* items such as potions and scrolls and spells, and should generally require a quest to find someone who has the item. The exception is healing and restoring spells, which should be available to members of the faith (or those properly disguised), or life becomes too deadly.

AMAZING MUNDANE ITEMS
There is nothing like a flaming greatsword in a low-magic world to make your fighters drool. These are amazingly powerful when everyone else has a normal sword, basically like a mini-artifact, especially if magic in general is nerfed. Getting a +1 sword, on the other hand, doesn't have nearly as much emotional appeal. The answer? Awesome mundane items, so that +1 sword is simply a good mundane item. This is a simple system where everything stacks:

+1 Masterwork
+1 Named & Signed by Grandmaster
+1 Special Material (by campaign, or just use adamite, mithiril, & ironwood)

Value
+1 2,000 gp
+2 8,000 gp
+3 18,000 gp (known as a legendary item)

Magical weapons and armor and other magical items could be legendary items that have been inscribed by a rune. These runes emulate the magical enchantments from the standard books. A craftsman can make a DC20 check to copy this rune onto another legendary item. An arcane caster capable of casting at least 3rd level spells may then transfer the magical essence of the rune into the other item. Any single item can have only one rune inscribed. (This reduces some of the horse-trading needs for magical items, because you can move the fire enchantment on to your favorite short-sword).

Weapon & Armor Magical Value (for DM, these should not be bought or sold)
+1 Rune 20,000 gp
+2 Rune 50,000 gp

Other Magical Items would have a value twice the DM guide value for temporary items, and 5 times for permanent items. This makes a world that is consistent and has magic, but where permanent magic items are rare. PCs generally shouldn't be allowed to craft items in a low magic world, although scrolls and potions aren't too bad as long as the value is increased per the above.

SLOW SPELLCASTING
All spell casting times are increased by one full round. It is a simple rule, and isn't overly crunchy to implement. But it will make sure that weapons will win most combats, and that magic will be focused more on divination, healing, mobility, and planned defenses. You won't see many fireballs after this is implemented, unless your sorcerer has stealth and a great spot skill.

MUNDANE MONSTERS
It isn't a low magic world if you are fighting Beholders and Liches. One Bodak or Werewolf is an immense army in a low magic world (or will soon be, once they use a small hamlet to turn into more). There are simply more secret plots. More orcs and gnolls, and they will attack in force. It shouldn't turn into Diablo, but you will have to sometimes play out battle with many opponents in order to make the rare Red Dragon seem truly inspired. The Dragon's don't even really need spellcasting ability, their breath weapons and spell-like abilities are sufficient. Instead of making tons of different kinds of goblinoid enemies, it is generally more interesting to give them different alliances, different uniforms/clothing, and different weapons.

MILITARY ENGAGEMENTS
The party's half-orc kicks down the door. "You wearing clothes of black hand!" Everybody rolls initiative. Sound familiar? If any of you have read Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series, you may know that most combats in that series take place in a battlefield or street corner where distance and terrain are important. You may also know a famous scene where Asmodeon is killed. He is surprised, and killed quickly by an unnamed attacker. Most D&D battles I've seen work the surprised way. But reducing the power of magic increases the value of good tactical combat and simple mundane defenses. A simple wooden fort or house with a locked door is much better protection in a low-magic world, as is a castle. Bar all doors, have bars over windows so sound is normally required to penetrate them. These basic defenses should be very common, and BBEG's should almost always have a protected lair. They should be aware of you before you penetrate the inner sanctum, and fights should continue along passage-ways and past walls in a more tactical fashion.

In conclusion, if you want magic to be rare and special, you can't also force everything to become more powerful. You can't have it both ways. But you can implement a few rules to still have a dynamic universe with cool items and enemies, and still get that “Wow” feeling every time something magic happens.

There certainly IS something to this, but it can be done more easily. You can keep the entire wurst or magic items if you get rid of the shops and use forethought in letting them out.

Let the PCs make all the items they want. YOU as DM control how fast they gain wealth and whether or not some strange and rare items might not be needed to make the item in question. This allows you to control what is getting into the campaign without having to change anything...this is all supposed to be part of the DMs normal job.

Beyond this, rarity in the odd creatures and just one other thing:

You don't need to nerf magic as a whole. The magic system isn't the problem anyway. The problem is Healing and how fast and easy it is.

In our new campaign, coming this summer or fall, we're doing the one thing that will more drastically change the face of the game universe than anything else:

The Healing spells, all of them, with the exception of the Paladial Lay on Hands ability and Fast Healing, cast just the same as always, but the TIME needed for full effect changes. We've decided to try one hour per level of the spell or ability in place. Thus a Cure Moderate Wounds still heals the same 2d8+lvl(max +10) as always, but the healing is spread out over 2 hours.

This ONE thing makes any creature that wants to stay alive for any amount of time change it's entire approach to combat. Now there is a damned good reason to route when you are facing a obviously superior foe.

Illusions have more terror to them because anything deadly has more terror to it. Divinations become far more sought after because avoidance (and thus fore knowledge of what to avoid) becomes far more important. An Evoker becomes a truly terrible opponent instead of a laughably limited one and an Abjuration specialist is now a hugely attractive Class option.

The Fighter, even with high hit points, becomes more cautious, but at the same time, he's no longer at such a huge disadvantage in combat against a powerful Wizard.

The low hit points but high numbers opponents become MUCH scarier for the high level character.

If you know that you are going to get a Cure Critical Wounds in the middle of combat that heals you instantly, you're going to act differently than you will if you know that it's going to take four hours to do the job.

Even downtimes, something many young DMs just never seem to bother with, becomes more and more vital. There will be fewer 19 year olds with 24 levels behind them. Clerics and other healers become even more important, but the thinking of them as walking MASH units ceases.

No other aspect of D&D has been more abused than Healing. It is the games Achilles Heel (or Heal even ;) ). Doing away with it's abusability to should go a loooooong way to regularizing things.

Isshia
#11

zombiegleemax

Mar 06, 2006 13:30:24
The campaign I master is a low-magic one. I already use the +1 to +5 masterwork (that doesn't stack with magic enhancement, mechanically). I think it's great. Players are now level 7, and i believe they have one magic item each. Any mundane item they put their hands on is a treat! They'll find stuff every now and then, but not too often.

I also don't have any magic stores. I cannot see this kind of place not being robbed blind on a regular basis Or being bought up by the king for use by his army, or being seized by the king for his army, and so on. Anyway, I don't like magic items being too available (apart from potions and scrolls).

As a side note, i think that a low-magic setting is somewhat logical, since creating magic items requires the maker to spend experience points on the item, which in my view is similar to the maker pouring some of his life-force into the item. I don't think many mages and priests would mind doing that occasionally for the low-level spells, but i doubt that many of them would accept being significantly weakened by such magical creation. Of course, that's just my personal interpretation.
#12

dunelord

Mar 12, 2006 4:09:46
I never really understood the logic on this whole low magic thing. Any world that has magic items that work even close the way D&D magic items do should have plenty to go around, and what makes an item special is the story and fun that goes into it. Good running of a high magic world where you can go shopping is FAR better then bad running of low magic. If anything, I think low magic might cause runners to over look making a magic item special. After all, if you know that the PC can go any place and get another +3 longsword you have to do some work to make him care. If that is the only +3 longsword he can expect to find between now and the Gods know when you know that he'll care so work isn't really required.
#13

bluemage55

Mar 14, 2006 1:50:30
I see a bit of a mechanics problem with a low-magic setting: it cripples spellcasters as they are currently written. If you wish to implement the low-magic system you have written, in the interest of balance, you would have to give spellcasters certain advantages that they currently do not possess (perhaps 1d6 HD and +2/3 BAB?).

In addition, there are other problems of a low-magic setting that may be hard to overcome. Each of the classes and other character options of D&D were designed with a "normal" magic setting in mind, and certain ones depend more and less on having magical equipment. In a low-magic setting, optimized characters would almost certainly rely on Vow of Poverty to make up for the loss of equivalent equipment. In addition, a character such as a monk is probably hurt much less by the loss of magical weapons than a fighter would be.

If you examine a setting such as d20 modern, which is typically extremely low-magic, there are considerable differences from core D&D made to adjust for the lack of magic.

I don't really mean to criticize low-magic settings, however, I merely wish to point out that a low-magic system would constitute far more than 5 simple rules.
#14

zombiegleemax

Mar 16, 2006 16:35:51
I never really understood the logic on this whole low magic thing. Any world that has magic items that work even close the way D&D magic items do should have plenty to go around, and what makes an item special is the story and fun that goes into it. Good running of a high magic world where you can go shopping is FAR better then bad running of low magic. If anything, I think low magic might cause runners to over look making a magic item special. After all, if you know that the PC can go any place and get another +3 longsword you have to do some work to make him care. If that is the only +3 longsword he can expect to find between now and the Gods know when you know that he'll care so work isn't really required.

Hey, some like apples, some like oranges. Low magic campaigns depend more on the players skills and abilities (the characters) than +2 this and +8 this. The best thing about low magic items is how fragile even the best weapons are. A lot of the time, players want to play games (especially newbie players) that resemble their favorite fantasy movies. There's not one fantasy movie that resembles the magical world or system of dungeons and dragons.

The problem with d and d and magic, is that it makes magic the pharmaceutical industry of the world, but doesn’t provide the realistic consequences of such a powerful industry.

From a DMs perspective, these games are easier to manage. There is no real need to keep up on the latest magical enhancements, items, spells, or "wondrous" items that come out every month. The powers of characters moves away from the "wealth of a character in his magic items" and hinges more on the players. Wealth becomes this really cool "role playing" thing as opposed to the thing needed to get more magic or the magic you want. Players go from looking for magical this and that to building and founding towns, and investing. Things become epic.

A sword can become legendary without making it summon something every time. You still have the history and detail of weapons, maybe with increased hit point and hardness to demonstrate its lasting effect.
#15

cantankerous

Mar 17, 2006 0:52:56
I never really understood the logic on this whole low magic thing. Any world that has magic items that work even close the way D&D magic items do should have plenty to go around, and what makes an item special is the story and fun that goes into it. Good running of a high magic world where you can go shopping is FAR better then bad running of low magic. If anything, I think low magic might cause runners to over look making a magic item special. After all, if you know that the PC can go any place and get another +3 longsword you have to do some work to make him care. If that is the only +3 longsword he can expect to find between now and the Gods know when you know that he'll care so work isn't really required.

Exactly the opposite is what usually happens. It's simple the "Law of Scarcity" in action. The more "scarce" a thing is, the more precious it is. Period. High magic campaigns cheapen magic to the point that finding it becomes,

"Hoo hum, another Banesword of Wounding? If it's not at least plus five just throw it in the Portable Hole, it's plus five or better give it to the link boy, he's only got a plus four one."

"We can't sir. Their ain't no more room."

That kind of idiocy I can do without entirely. In even just decently run Low Magic campaigns any magic item has a back story. A simple plus one dagger was enchanted for a reason, because it's not an assembly line project to do so. Thus even IT has a back story.

It's really just the simple Law of Scarcity that SHOWS why low magic campaigns almost always hold any magic as "rare and wondrous" and not hum-drum.
#16

zombiegleemax

Mar 20, 2006 15:49:07
I see a bit of a mechanics problem with a low-magic setting: it cripples spellcasters as they are currently written. If you wish to implement the low-magic system you have written, in the interest of balance, you would have to give spellcasters certain advantages that they currently do not possess (perhaps 1d6 HD and +2/3 BAB?).

In addition, there are other problems of a low-magic setting that may be hard to overcome. Each of the classes and other character options of D&D were designed with a "normal" magic setting in mind, and certain ones depend more and less on having magical equipment. In a low-magic setting, optimized characters would almost certainly rely on Vow of Poverty to make up for the loss of equivalent equipment. In addition, a character such as a monk is probably hurt much less by the loss of magical weapons than a fighter would be.

If you examine a setting such as d20 modern, which is typically extremely low-magic, there are considerable differences from core D&D made to adjust for the lack of magic.

I don't really mean to criticize low-magic settings, however, I merely wish to point out that a low-magic system would constitute far more than 5 simple rules.

Actually, having run a low-magic campaign through all three editions, it works out quite well. Mages lose nothing in the way of power, because they're STILL spellcasters. They tend to be organized into Schools and Cabals, with them working as part of a tight-knit organization.

Spells become harder t'get ahold of, to be sure, because the schools keep a tight rein on their availability. But this in turn gives Mages a 'tie' to their mage guild that goes beyond 'Oh yeah.. I belong to that guild.. Never been there.' And becomes a functioning part of the character background.

On this same note, it allows you to introduce things like 'Hedge Mages', mages who are a bit like the adept in that they are spiritual in nature as well. But they've learned their magics on their own through experimentation and study, and can truly throw the School mages off because they tend to discover ways and methods of doing things that the regimented schools don't due to their rigid structure.
#17

zombiegleemax

Mar 20, 2006 15:49:09
I see a bit of a mechanics problem with a low-magic setting: it cripples spellcasters as they are currently written. If you wish to implement the low-magic system you have written, in the interest of balance, you would have to give spellcasters certain advantages that they currently do not possess (perhaps 1d6 HD and +2/3 BAB?).

In addition, there are other problems of a low-magic setting that may be hard to overcome. Each of the classes and other character options of D&D were designed with a "normal" magic setting in mind, and certain ones depend more and less on having magical equipment. In a low-magic setting, optimized characters would almost certainly rely on Vow of Poverty to make up for the loss of equivalent equipment. In addition, a character such as a monk is probably hurt much less by the loss of magical weapons than a fighter would be.

If you examine a setting such as d20 modern, which is typically extremely low-magic, there are considerable differences from core D&D made to adjust for the lack of magic.

I don't really mean to criticize low-magic settings, however, I merely wish to point out that a low-magic system would constitute far more than 5 simple rules.

Actually I'd say only one or two more rules would be needed to solve the problems you brought up. Simply make the classes slightly more potent and do something about current HP. The Iron heroes changes makes the most sense. You have one mage class which is very optimize-able but equip hazards to casting. You get a feat every two levels, and you have more combat options like stunts and challenges. You also get a "reserve" hit point total which is an interesting concept (though my group recently voted to toss it out for more grit).
#18

aliquid

Mar 20, 2006 18:29:33
An additional rule:

To be smart enough to actually cast a spell, a wizard must have an intelligence of 16 + the spell level. So cantrips require an Int of 16, 1st level spells an Int of 17, etc. Same for Clerics and wisdom, Sorcerers and Charisma etc.

This makes spellcasters special and uncommon due to simple statistics. Very few people are smart enough to pull it off. Someone able to cast 9th level spells would be extremely rare and special indeed. It would require a starting Int of 18, and then put your ability increase into Intelligence every time... and on top of that you would need to create a magic item to boost your Int a bit further.
#19

Xeviat-DM

Mar 20, 2006 22:00:27
I do rather like the 1 full round casting time idea; I threw it out a few months ago and it was shot down. Having the +s of weapons, armor, and shield be a function of craftsmanship is also an idea I came to recently.

But I'd rather see more work put into explaining the D&D world as written. Outside of spell components, and expendable magic items, I don't tend to see having too many permanent magic items laying around waiting to be sold. Another way of doing it, instead of abandoning magic stores entirely, is to have characters commission the creation of magic items. Also, use Legacy Items as they have more "oomph" to them.

But I do think making the +s of items part of craftsmanship is actually a very good way of making magic items more special. Rich people like high level adventurers are deal heavily in valuable items; a +1 longsword is just a well made longsword, treated with mystical materials. A flaming longsword is a relatively simple enhancement; almost any wizard of 5th level or higher could do the same temporarily, so the process of making it permanent is not difficult.

And maybe XP costs for magic items should be removed. The character had to spend a feat to make the item, and has to devote time to it. When a fighter devotes time to killing enemies, they gain XP; why is it when a wizard devotes time to enhancing a sword do they loose it? Is the wizard not learning?
#20

cantankerous

Mar 21, 2006 1:44:28
I see a bit of a mechanics problem with a low-magic setting: it cripples spellcasters as they are currently written. If you wish to implement the low-magic system you have written, in the interest of balance, you would have to give spellcasters certain advantages that they currently do not possess (perhaps 1d6 HD and +2/3 BAB?).

In addition, there are other problems of a low-magic setting that may be hard to overcome. Each of the classes and other character options of D&D were designed with a "normal" magic setting in mind, and certain ones depend more and less on having magical equipment. In a low-magic setting, optimized characters would almost certainly rely on Vow of Poverty to make up for the loss of equivalent equipment. In addition, a character such as a monk is probably hurt much less by the loss of magical weapons than a fighter would be.

If you examine a setting such as d20 modern, which is typically extremely low-magic, there are considerable differences from core D&D made to adjust for the lack of magic.

I don't really mean to criticize low-magic settings, however, I merely wish to point out that a low-magic system would constitute far more than 5 simple rules.

I've found exactly the opposite. In a Low Magic campaign, the Wizard (or Sorcerer) and the Cleric (or Druid) is FAR more powerful in relation to the standard than anywhere else.

If the campaign is low magic, there is less resistance to magic as it never needed to develop. Spell casters tend to face MUCH lower saves on the part of their opponents. Having the +1 to the DC of your spells that Focus provides becomes a BIG advantage, instead of a throw away Feat.

Low Magic is a leveler in many ways. In High Magic campaigns having a few levels of a magic using class means little. In a low magic campaign it can be HUGE!
#21

zombiegleemax

Mar 28, 2006 10:46:48
I've found exactly the opposite. In a Low Magic campaign, the Wizard (or Sorcerer) and the Cleric (or Druid) is FAR more powerful in relation to the standard than anywhere else.

I agree with this. I actually found that either low or high magic tends to favor casters. In high magic, there are so many magic opponents that Fighters have a hard time finding them, getting to them, or otherwise engaging. In low magic, the fighters don't get magic items other than a single weapon, which also reduces them somewhat. Requiring everyone to take a level of mundane class before getting a full caster class does help somewhat.

Has anyone tried a system where magic items are only magical for a single person? I've been playing WoW lately, and the Soulbound system is absolutely vital to the magic economy. Without that magic items would be basically worthless aside from Epic Items for lvl 60 characters.

I imagine a system where you attune your spirit to an item by embedding some our your life force within a crystal, most commonly located in a weapon's hilt. If you lose the item, you lose one level. I might also require a feat to attune, although you could attune to a new item without a new feat if the first is destroyed, or perhaps you make the crystal almost impossible to lose or destroy. For disposable items, you attune to a loose crystal that is used to make the item. For balance, you would need to allow the character to add new powers to the item as he gains levels, perhaps the equivalent of a +1 every 2 or 3 levels. You would build your item like you build your PC.

I'd give these feats away as a bonus, perhaps one every odd level after level 1, which would either give you a new item or add a power to an existing item. If you also gave a stat boost every even level then a low magic character wouldn't be so nerfed that the CR system is completely thrown away, at least not until higher levels. I would require that consecutive stat bonuses be put in different stats to avoid super-high stats. You would probably also have to ignore some of the DR stat blocks since PCs won't have 3 different weapons to attack with.

If you want to discourage spellcasters in this system, you just require a 'staff of power' to cast spells, which uses a soul crystal of +1 bonus per level of spell they want to cast. That would make them basically give up magic items entirely if they want to cast spells.

That is getting to be a pretty significant rules change, perhaps not entirely simple to implement effectively.
#22

pmurray%40bigpond.com

Jun 06, 2006 23:31:12
This is on my list of things to get around to writing about as soon as this design firm thing flies. It is very much along this line.

Masterwork +5

Dead simple to do. Simply rule that there's no such thing as a magic enhancement bonus to hit/damage. Those types of bonuses must come from the skill of the weapon maker and the strength/skill of the wielder. Apply this rule to spells, to: bless, prayer etc.

Oh: make "keen" nonmagical as well. Magic can, however, add "special effects" to a weapon, and that's fine.
#23

surgo

Jun 18, 2006 0:11:38
NO “MAGIC STORES” If you can buy it at a 'Spell-Mart,' it just isn't that special. At the very least PCs should have to join a guild or be an active priest to trade magic items, and that should be for *temporary* items such as potions and scrolls and spells, and should generally require a quest to find someone who has the item. The exception is healing and restoring spells, which should be available to members of the faith (or those properly disguised), or life becomes too deadly.

Most of the time, the 'magic store' is just an abstraction to cover over the annoyingly boring aspects of shopping. In addition, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to find powerful magic items. To quote another wise poster who said something along these lines, it's just like finding things like a tank for sale in real life. If you have the money for one, they're available.
#24

zombiegleemax

Jun 19, 2006 1:49:59
Unless your campaign is high on roleplaying and low on combat, why would anyone choose to be a spellcaster? Fighters can still get pretty good by taking feats, but wizards? They get better by advancing their spells, but if their spell use is severely limited, why bother? And what happens to spells that already take a full round to cast? Do they just go to 2 rounds? That doesn't seem to be in proportion. Shouldn't it take like 10 minutes? After all, the casting time is an integral part to the power of a spell.

Also, a +3 weapon is a +3 weapon, whether it comes from magic or craftsmanship. Calling it craftsmanship instead of magic just changes the name, not the effect. Especially when you say it's stackable with other types of craftsmanship. The only way you are making a low-magic setting is by charging 2-5 times the DMG price. If the intent is simply limit the access to magic items, just make them rare.

I definitely think the idea of no "Zander's Magic Mart" stores will help achieve your low-magic goal. If characters have to make contacts to get access to basic potions and low-level magic, they will just have less of them. This also means they will spend a correspondingly greater time during play sessions looking for this stuff instead of doing heroic deeds like slaying hydras.

My personal opinion is that most players are frustrated by low-magic campaigns. In virtually every case I know of, this type of campaign was not one they chose but rather one that they found themselves in upon changing DMs; the DM wanted to run that type of world, but the players didn't really want to play in it. They go along for the sake of friendship (and where that doesn't exist, they quit.) They've got all these books with lots of cool stuff in them, but "No, you can't have that stuff." To me, this just reeks of arrogance on the part of the DM. The game works fine the way it is written. If you want magic to have special meaning to the players, then tie it to their characters. Like Legacy weapons, let them unlock the weapon's abilities a little at a time, and make those abilities specific for that character.
#25

zombiegleemax

Jun 20, 2006 15:44:16
For example: To add the flaming quality to the weapon the player must have a powerful red dragon breathe on the sword, and then cool the sword in the dead dragon’s blood.

Quel'Serrar? :P
#26

zombiegleemax

Jun 23, 2006 17:02:31
Avoid 'straight out of the book names'. Nothing makes magic seem mundane like a +1 assembly line longsword. Give it a unique hilt and name it.
#27

zombiegleemax

Jun 25, 2006 2:09:45
:heehee

"You've gotten your D&D in my WoW!"

"No, you've gotten your WoW in my D&D!"

*casts Deathcoil*

Seriously though, past level 5 or so in D&D, it turns into a game of which spellcaster is holding the trump card, with a little bit of sword stabbing mixed in.

Soon, every encounter ends up like this:
1. cast evard's black tentacles
2. cast targeted dispel magic
3. cast dimension door to get out of being grappled
4. throw your backup weapons at the enemy because the wizard couldn't dispel the tentacles
5. someone breaks free and kills the bad guy.
6. realize 2 hours have gone by dealing with a half dozen spell descriptions


or, if it's some really big creature (and they usually are):
1. monster hits you, grabs you, rolls a 1 on their grapple check and you still lose.
2. curse for a round or two.
3. rogue realizes it's immune to sneak attacks.
4. dim door away.
5. grabs the fighter, same result as above.
6. bunch of spells later, creature drops the fighter and dies.

Every game I've played in since 3.5 came out has been the same, set in Forgotten Realms, which I can't stand, except reading the novels, and everyone loots every scrap of uhh, anything from fallen foes, trades them in for half book value, and goes and spends it at MMagicMart, where the extra M is for 'Magic' :P

Then, the cleric dumps everything into being a better fighter than the fighter, and everyone else spends most of their cash on items of protection-from-being-perpetually-grappled.
Oh, and everyone is so loaded down with potions that they must sound like the milk man creeping through the dungeon.

I really want to try something else, like Iron Heroes, or strip out some of the magic from D&D and give it a whirl, but everyone has all the nice shiny new books, and we all want to use them. But tactical combat is much more fun than spell and counter-spell combat. Or the coveted Amulet of the I Win Button, usable 3 times per day.
#28

thegogmagog

Jun 26, 2006 7:11:52
SLOW SPELLCASTING
All spell casting times are increased by one full round. It is a simple rule, and isn't overly crunchy to implement. But it will make sure that weapons will win most combats, and that magic will be focused more on divination, healing, mobility, and planned defenses. You won't see many fireballs after this is implemented, unless your sorcerer has stealth and a great spot skill.

I'm not sure what to think of this, it might work...partially.

The first thing I think when a DM says it's a low magic world first thing that comes to my mind is Full caster! I and my group will be running around with greater magic weapons, Magic Vestment and Barkskin and the mook npcs don't stand a chance. I think to run low magic campaigns you need to slow progression. Slowing spellcasting might help some, but doesn't affect the long term buffs that have a greater effect in the low magic world.
#29

dunelord

Jun 27, 2006 3:54:16
If you want the PCs to act like magical weapons are more important to their characters, make them more important to the characters. Try sentiment, not making them more rare. Everyone I ever meet in real life has an item they care about because of a personal reason. The dagger he uses to swear the oath to avenger his father becomes magical but only for him. The sword she uses to avenge her home burning down becomes flaming, but only for her. This adds both sentiment and a logical reason to keep it. After all who is going to give up a +3 flaming sword for 15 gold.