Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 grungd Feb 09, 2004 1:11:25	I just bought a used copy of this adventure (it's really a compilation of G1-G3, D1-D3, and Q1 for those not in the know) at a cut-rate price. Reason it was so cheap--didn't have the map booklet. This particular incarnation of these adventures has been OOP for quite some time (about 17 years now), and I don't know of any other reprintings. What I'm wondering if there's a way of getting the maps from this book or from the original adventures w/o having to buy another Queen of the Spiders module or (even worse) having to buy the original 7 modules. (I know I could just make my own maps, but I've got too many projects going on atm. The room descriptions assume you've got the maps, so the relationships between areas is not described.) In any case, if anyone's got a link to a jpg of the maps, or knows of a cheap way to buy the map book, etc. etc., I'd appreciate the info posted here.
#2 tgsantini Feb 11, 2004 12:06:15	You could purchase an electronic copy of the module from SVGAMES.Com. The cost is $5.00 and is sent to you over the internet. This of course gives you the entire module again but it is only $5.00.
#3 grungd Feb 11, 2004 20:39:00	Great, thanks. 7 bucks (after paper and ink) ain't a bad deal, considering the module goes for $40+ on e-bay >< Anyway, I'm grabbing it from them tonite. Thanks again!
#4 realmaster Feb 20, 2004 3:09:25	I just bought this super module along with the other two super modules that go with it (Scourge of the slave lords and The temple of elemental evil) and I am going to run this HUGE campaign. The only thing that I am hung up on is if I am going to run it in second edition or 3E.
#5 tgsantini Feb 20, 2004 9:55:26	I suggest running it in 3e or 3.5e, whichever, only because I think it will add a much needed dimension to these modules. I have played 1e and 3e games, or 3.5e, and prefer the newer edition. The only drawback is that it is going to create alot of work for you as the DM. However if any of your players have these modules they will still be in the dark as to the feats and skills these evil NPC's will have. I do recommend buying the epic level handbook as there are stats in the back for an epic Eclavdra, and I believe either Dieties and Demigods or Manual of the planes have the stats on Loth, Iuz and St. Cuthbert. With all that said now even if they memorized the modules, you can still give them a run for their money.
#6 realmaster Feb 20, 2004 16:26:14	Originally posted by tgsantini I do recommend buying the epic level handbook as there are stats in the back for an epic Eclavdra, and I believe either Dieties and Demigods or Manual of the planes have the stats on Loth, Iuz and St. Cuthbert. With all that said now even if they memorized the modules, you can still give them a run for their money. I have these books and you are right, they will help a lot. It is not going to happen soon since I have not had these modules for very long and need time to read and prepare. Thanks for the imput.;)
#7 zombiegleemax Feb 26, 2004 10:51:34	you don't have everything. Take what you got, and make your own additions and or subtractions. Players that slightly remember the stuff, will be pleasantly surprised when what they thought happens next, doesn't have fun!!
#8 zombiegleemax Mar 05, 2004 21:29:16	Run it 2e.:invasion: :invasion:
#9 algolei_dup Mar 06, 2004 0:05:39	I would run it 2E also. It wasn't made for 3.x, so making it "compliant" and "balanced" can only ruin the flavour.
#10 zombiegleemax Mar 06, 2004 2:54:08	Agreed. The entire adventure was geared for a particular rules set. Changing that changes the entire module.
#11 zombiegleemax Mar 06, 2004 11:15:23	These modules weren't made with one rule set in mind. They were made when the 1st ed rules were in effect. That doesn't mean you can't update them. Case in point, Temple of the Elemental Evil (1st Ed) they did Return to the Temple of the Elemental Evil (3rd Ed) same flavor, same fun!!!!!!!!
#12 realmaster Mar 06, 2004 12:07:40	I still play 2nd edition every weekend for half of the day, and then 3E for the second half of the day. We usually don't get through playing until Sunday morning. I admit that I am old school and 2nd edition is my first choice and my favorite. Nothing is set into stone yet as to how these are going to be ran.
#13 algolei_dup Mar 07, 2004 17:06:06	Originally posted by beavis123 These modules weren't made with one rule set in mind. They were made when the 1st ed rules were in effect. That doesn't mean you can't update them. Yes they were made with one rule set in mind: AD&D. 3E was never a consideration. But of course you could update them--it would just take a lot of work. You could also convert them to GURPS or, I dunno, Warhammer or something. Case in point, Temple of the Elemental Evil (1st Ed) they did Return to the Temple of the Elemental Evil (3rd Ed) same flavor, same fun!!!!!!!! But completely different. Totally revamped, brand new monsters, new improved storyline, the works.
#14 tgsantini Mar 08, 2004 9:53:03	I have played these games, Slaver Series and ToEE, using 1e, and am currently replaying them in 3.0/3.5 edition rules and I got to tell you the newer rules really enhance the game. Yes it would be alot of work to update them, but if that is your only concern you are not much of a DM. As they are written the plots need alot of work anyway. The overall themes are good but they need to be revamped because the room to room tactics are a bit campy. In addition there are plenty of 3/3.5 edition computer generators out there to help you along. Also the Savage Species book help adds a dimension to the game most players will not be ready for. As always the choice is yours, everyone has their own favorite set of rules. If 2e is your thing go for it and enjoy, but do not use the work load arguement as a reason not to upgrade. That is just lame and unimaginative.
#15 algolei_dup Mar 08, 2004 19:02:04	Originally posted by tgsantini ...the newer rules really enhance the game. Yes it would be alot of work to update them, but if that is your only concern you are not much of a DM. That's where we disagree. And that's why I stick mostly to the OOP board. Not having time is not a sign of a bad DM, it's a sign of a person with other things to do.
#16 tgsantini Mar 09, 2004 10:08:30	Please understand that no disrespect was intended, you are not the only one with other things to do. I have a wife, a job that keeps me busy 12- 14 hrs a day, a 2 yr old, and other friends that I spend time with that do not play this game. I totally understand about being busy. However the time and workload issue is still a lame excuse. We play this game because its fun. Everyone who plays this game knows that game day can literally take up an entire day. If you are unprepared the game suffers that day, no matter what rules you use. These epic modules were written for 1e originally so you will need to upgrade anyway for 2e. Like I said before, even if you were using 1e rules you will need to rewrite alot of these modules. As they are written they are so static that it is laughable. You are going to have to put in alot of time regardless, so the time and workload issues do not make sense. Again if 2e is your favorite then that alone is the only reason you need to stay with those rules. I have never played them but others who have, told me that they were great. Not allocating the proper amount of time to prepare is the mark of a bad DM. There is alot of work that goes with being a DM regardless of which rules you use. Even more when you upgrade, but that is the price we pay to play this game.
#17 realmaster Mar 09, 2004 16:15:45	However the time and workload issue is still a lame excuse Sometimes, It depends on what's going on. People need to remember that the real world comes first. I have never played them but others who have, told me that they were great You are missing out, 2E is very fun. The question of putting in the time to prepare is not an issue; I know it will be a long road but VERY fun and worth the effort in the long run.
#18 tgsantini Mar 10, 2004 10:10:47	"You are missing out, 2E is very fun." Maybe, Maybe not, at that time I did not have the money to upgrade to 2e, and when I did 3e was available so I went that route. "Sometimes, It depends on what's going on. People need to remember that the real world comes first." I agree, and thought that I made that point, in anycase we all make time for the things we do. You schedule game time and work around that, there is no excuse for being unprepared. If as the DM you choose to use one of these 1e epic adventures in either a 2e or 3e setting then you just got to schedule the prep time. Now of course the will always be extenuating circumstances. I.E. births, deaths, holidays etc but outside of those types of things the DM has got to be ready. Ever DM a game where the players know more than the you, those games suck. But back to the original point, which ever rules you choose be prepared for alot of prep work. Converting old modules to new rules is a task but a rewarding one. One website did have these adventures upgraded to 3e rule but they were forced to remove them.
#19 realmaster Mar 10, 2004 13:08:34	cool You schedule game time and work around that, there is no excuse for being unprepared I agree with this, If you schedule a game you should be prepared.
#20 zombiegleemax Mar 10, 2004 17:03:23	Originally posted by realmaster I just bought this super module along with the other two super modules that go with it (Scourge of the slave lords and The temple of elemental evil) and I am going to run this HUGE campaign. The only thing that I am hung up on is if I am going to run it in second edition or 3E. Run it as either a 1E or 2E as it should be, running it with 3.+ E will kill the feel of a really great campaign. :D
#21 zombiegleemax Mar 10, 2004 22:50:42	If I see yet other "Play 3E"/"Convert to 3E"/"Buy 3E" post I am going to scream. Seriously. This is the OUT OF PRINT BOARD. Is 3E/D20 out of print? No. Does 3E/D20 belong in this board? No. Would we stick to this board if he had any intention of switching to 3E? No. This board has become into a joke. I come to this board to talk about the old edition(s) I still play. I welcome system debates, but coming here and seeing at least 1 daily post about how we should convert to 3E is something I don't want nor need. It is just too old, tiresome and annoying by now. Instead of "Out of Print", this forum should be called "Switch to 3E (this message was brought to you by Hasbro employees)".
#22 zombiegleemax Mar 11, 2004 6:01:33	everyone gets their opinion. One post a day won't kill you. If you don't like the post, skip over it. I liked the Queen of Spiders series, it also had good art work.
#23 tgsantini Mar 11, 2004 16:23:00	Originally posted by Hiryu Instead of "Out of Print", this forum should be called "Switch to 3E (this message was brought to you by Hasbro employees)". PLEASE......! Out of Print can mean OOP rules, OOP modules, or OOP Game settings. There is nothing wrong with exploring great OOP modules with new updated rules. Or even taking some new modules and using an older set of rules that you prefer to use. No one is forcing you to play it that way but it does make for some interesting discussions.