Alternate Realistic EXP System - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Alternate Realistic EXP System

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thasis
Mar 20, 2005 13:37:40 My friend John and I have thought up a new EXP system. Be warned it's much more complicated then the normal one. That's the trade-off. When you read it you're probably going to be wondering "What's the point of such a complicated EXP system?" Well it's for people to run a more realistic campaign instead of running a campaign when you can gain levels in any class without even bothering to train in the different aspects of the class. For example, a wizard who does little-to-no fighting suddenly takes a level in Fighter because he feels like it. Is that realistic? Probably not. So I present:

Alternate Exp System

A while back my friend John came up with an idea for an alternate EXP system. He hadn’t worked out all the details so I made my own system based of his idea. In this system there are 6 types of EXP instead of one core EXP. The categories are Skillful EXP, Combat EXP, Defense EXP, Arcane EXP, Divine EXP, and Psionic EXP.

Gaining EXP

Since there are 6 types of EXP, you are definitely going to be getting EXP differently. For example, when you kill a creature you take normal EXP and divide it up equally into Combat and Defense EXP. In the case of an odd number put 1 extra EXP into either Combat or Defense (player’s choice). Whenever you successfully use any skill you gain a number of EXP based off of how hard the DC was. Use DMs discretion. A suggested EXP award is 50 times the DC. The DM may change the EXP award however he wishes though to suit his and/or the players needs.

Combat and Defense EXP is only gained through the death of a creature through non-magical means (with the exception of magic items). Whenever a creature is killed with Arcane Magic you gain Arcane EXP or if the creature was killed with Divine Magic you gain Divine EXP. The same applies for Psionic EXP. If you kill a creature with Psionic powers then you gain Psionic EXP. You also gain EXP if a non-damaging spell is successfully cast. You gain 150 times the spell level in EXP. The same goes for Psionic EXP. If you successfully use a Psionic power then you get 150 times the power level in EXP.

Using EXP

With EXP using this system you buy levels in classes instead of just gaining a level automatically when you reach the right EXP. To get to 2nd you have to spend 1000 EXP, to get to 3rd you need to spend 2000 EXP, and so on and so forth. But you can’t just spend whatever EXP you want wherever you want. That would be too easy. Every class has an EXP type requirements. For example, if you want to gain a level in rogue you would have to spend 25% of the 2000 EXP you need from Combat EXP, 25% from Defense EXP, and 25% from Skillful EXP. The other 25% can be taken out of any EXP area. This makes it so you have to have trained in the right EXP to gain a level in your class.

EXP Spending Chart – Core Classes

Barbarian: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP
Bard: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP
Cleric: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, 25% Divine EXP
Druid: 25% Combat EXP, and 50% Divine EXP
Fighter: 50% Combat EXP, and 25% Defensive EXP
Paladin: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, 25% Divine EXP
Ranger: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP
Rouge: 25% Skillful EXP, 25% Combat EXP, and 25% Defense EXP
Sorcerer: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP
Wizard: 25% Skillful EXP, and 50% Arcane EXP
Psion: 25% Skillful EXP, and 50% Psionic EXP
Psionic Warrior: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 50% Psionic EXP
Wilder: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Psionic EXP
Soul Knife: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Psionic EXP

EXP Spending Chart – Prestige Classes

Arcane Archer: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP
Arcane Trickster: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP
Archmage: 75% Arcane EXP
Assassin: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP
Blackguard: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Divine or Arcane EXP
Dragon Disciple: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP
Duelist: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP
Dwarven Defender: 25% Combat EXP, and 50% Defensive EXP
Eldritch Knight: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP
Hierophant: 75% Divine EXP
Horizon Walker: 75% Skillful EXP
Loremaster: 50% Divine EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP
Mystic Theurge: 25% Divine EXP, 25% Arcane EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP
Shadow Dance: 50% Skillful EXP, and 25% Combat EXP
Thaumaturgist: 75% Arcane EXP or 75% Divine EXP

Multi-classing and PRCs

Lets say you're a 3rd level Ranger and you want to take a level in Rogue. So you're 3rd level and want to go to a total lv of 4th. That means to become a 3rd lv Ranger/1st Lv Rouge you need 4000 EXP, of which 25% has to be Combat, 25% Defense, and 25% Skillful. The other 25% can be of any.

Questions, comments?
#2
Endarire
Mar 25, 2005 13:46:53 Tell me if I'm mistaken, but what about casters just casting spells daily for experience? As a Wizard, I could devote days worth of spell slots to Mage Armor, Invisibility, Keen Edge, etc. to milk the system. I also realize that DMs have the final say, but this system seems more like a guideline than a ruleset.

-EE
#3
zombiegleemax
Mar 25, 2005 16:21:38 You're basic argument appears to be:

a wizard who does little-to-no fighting suddenly takes a level in Fighter because he feels like it. Is that realistic? Probably not.

Instead of changing the XP system, just simply disallow people to multiclass without reason/mentor and/or time. It's an idea I commonly use. If a person starts off as a Fighter, and later wants to become a Wizard - they've got to go study during some downtime, and/or find a wizard to train them in the basic principles of Arcana. Simply stating "I'm a wizard now," is not a viable solution to taking an extra class. Even in the PHB, it states that wizards gain 2 spells/level of their choice BECAUSE they're always studying - a concept of downtime is practically integrated into the game mechanics.

However, there are a few classes that a person could "spontaneously" gain levels in, the two biggest being Psion (EPH), Divine Champion (CD) and Sorcerer. This is because these characters use innate abilities / force of will in order to do what they do, not studied practice. (And normally use Charisma as their saving throws because of it.)
#4
r-man
Mar 26, 2005 4:33:35 Interesting concept but how would a character who wishes to multiclass into Sorcerer and has no levels in any spellcasting class gain a level in sorcerer? He doesn't have any ability to gain Arcane XP. This also applies for any unusual mix of classes that may require xp in wildly different areas.
#5
nedlum
Mar 26, 2005 20:47:56 I could be wrong, but doesn't this system make it impossible to multiclass into a spell casting class, if you don't have spells to begin with?
#6
zombiegleemax
Mar 28, 2005 17:55:43
Barbarian: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP
Bard: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP
Cleric: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, 25% Divine EXP
Druid: 25% Combat EXP, and 50% Divine EXP
Fighter: 50% Combat EXP, and 25% Defensive EXP
Paladin: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, 25% Divine EXP
Ranger: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP
Rouge: 25% Skillful EXP, 25% Combat EXP, and 25% Defense EXP
Sorcerer: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP
Wizard: 25% Skillful EXP, and 50% Arcane EXP

Ignoring psi, there are 5 categories of xp, so 5x5x5= 125 different combinations, but you manage to use 25combat/25defense/25skill on three of them: barbarian, ranger, rogue. (You just put them in a different order so no one would notice?)

I'm pretty sure that 8 skill points per level takes more skill-xp than 2 skill points per-level. You might want to divide it into 20% increments, and just make it 10% per skill point per level skillful xp. So 40% skill for the rogue, 10% skillful for the Wiz.

Since I wouldn't give XP in situations for where you could take 10 on a skill check I also wouldn't give it for casting spells in a no stress situation.

Why not have naturalist-XP in the list for rangers monks?

The monk isn't in your list?
#7
Dan_Hemmens
Apr 06, 2005 17:51:46 I question your definition of "realistic". Complicated <> Realistic.

Experience points are not supposed to simulate real learning, they are an abstract reward mechanism. "Congratulations, you killed the Beholder, have a cookie". Either ditch XP entirely, or accept that they're an abstraction, don't make life hard on yourself for no good reason.
#8
gilean_dup
Apr 13, 2005 7:38:26 D&D experience system only simulates learning in combat with miscellaneous perks such as skills, of which not all are useful in combat. But, in environment with lots of combat and minor parts of skills, magic and such, D&D works...somewhat.

Your charts are way off. Most don't meet 100% total, and they also are woefully inaccurate as one of previous posters showed, with one little mistake. Barbarians have 4 skill points.
I suggest dividing experience in 6 sections: Arcane (which has magic and studied skills such as learning), divine (magic, misc social skills), martial, nature, rogue (sneaking, acrobatics) and urban (social skills, minor learning and sneaking, perhaps).
#9
the_one_true_shea_dup
Apr 26, 2005 16:47:56 I had a friend who tried to make his own d20 based game back before d20 THE GAME came out. It was not horribly complete but it did have a neat XP mechanic. Everytime you took an action you got points. On the spot, and of a type that could only go toward one of three things - your powers (supergame) your body (stats) or the skill used.

There was a debate about how a character does a lot more things than just the actions that you roll for in the game. So, he was added a story points concept. Wherein which you tell the gm what you are doing in your "down-time" (his words not mine) and you get points right about the same time you finish telling him. Basically the system was the gm gives you points and tells you to raise skills when he wants to, and at least one for every check.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thasis Mar 20, 2005 13:37:40	My friend John and I have thought up a new EXP system. Be warned it's much more complicated then the normal one. That's the trade-off. When you read it you're probably going to be wondering "What's the point of such a complicated EXP system?" Well it's for people to run a more realistic campaign instead of running a campaign when you can gain levels in any class without even bothering to train in the different aspects of the class. For example, a wizard who does little-to-no fighting suddenly takes a level in Fighter because he feels like it. Is that realistic? Probably not. So I present: Alternate Exp System A while back my friend John came up with an idea for an alternate EXP system. He hadn’t worked out all the details so I made my own system based of his idea. In this system there are 6 types of EXP instead of one core EXP. The categories are Skillful EXP, Combat EXP, Defense EXP, Arcane EXP, Divine EXP, and Psionic EXP. Gaining EXP Since there are 6 types of EXP, you are definitely going to be getting EXP differently. For example, when you kill a creature you take normal EXP and divide it up equally into Combat and Defense EXP. In the case of an odd number put 1 extra EXP into either Combat or Defense (player’s choice). Whenever you successfully use any skill you gain a number of EXP based off of how hard the DC was. Use DMs discretion. A suggested EXP award is 50 times the DC. The DM may change the EXP award however he wishes though to suit his and/or the players needs. Combat and Defense EXP is only gained through the death of a creature through non-magical means (with the exception of magic items). Whenever a creature is killed with Arcane Magic you gain Arcane EXP or if the creature was killed with Divine Magic you gain Divine EXP. The same applies for Psionic EXP. If you kill a creature with Psionic powers then you gain Psionic EXP. You also gain EXP if a non-damaging spell is successfully cast. You gain 150 times the spell level in EXP. The same goes for Psionic EXP. If you successfully use a Psionic power then you get 150 times the power level in EXP. Using EXP With EXP using this system you buy levels in classes instead of just gaining a level automatically when you reach the right EXP. To get to 2nd you have to spend 1000 EXP, to get to 3rd you need to spend 2000 EXP, and so on and so forth. But you can’t just spend whatever EXP you want wherever you want. That would be too easy. Every class has an EXP type requirements. For example, if you want to gain a level in rogue you would have to spend 25% of the 2000 EXP you need from Combat EXP, 25% from Defense EXP, and 25% from Skillful EXP. The other 25% can be taken out of any EXP area. This makes it so you have to have trained in the right EXP to gain a level in your class. EXP Spending Chart – Core Classes Barbarian: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP Bard: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP Cleric: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, 25% Divine EXP Druid: 25% Combat EXP, and 50% Divine EXP Fighter: 50% Combat EXP, and 25% Defensive EXP Paladin: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, 25% Divine EXP Ranger: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP Rouge: 25% Skillful EXP, 25% Combat EXP, and 25% Defense EXP Sorcerer: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP Wizard: 25% Skillful EXP, and 50% Arcane EXP Psion: 25% Skillful EXP, and 50% Psionic EXP Psionic Warrior: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 50% Psionic EXP Wilder: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Psionic EXP Soul Knife: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Psionic EXP EXP Spending Chart – Prestige Classes Arcane Archer: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP Arcane Trickster: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP Archmage: 75% Arcane EXP Assassin: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP Blackguard: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Divine or Arcane EXP Dragon Disciple: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP Duelist: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP Dwarven Defender: 25% Combat EXP, and 50% Defensive EXP Eldritch Knight: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP Hierophant: 75% Divine EXP Horizon Walker: 75% Skillful EXP Loremaster: 50% Divine EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP Mystic Theurge: 25% Divine EXP, 25% Arcane EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP Shadow Dance: 50% Skillful EXP, and 25% Combat EXP Thaumaturgist: 75% Arcane EXP or 75% Divine EXP Multi-classing and PRCs Lets say you're a 3rd level Ranger and you want to take a level in Rogue. So you're 3rd level and want to go to a total lv of 4th. That means to become a 3rd lv Ranger/1st Lv Rouge you need 4000 EXP, of which 25% has to be Combat, 25% Defense, and 25% Skillful. The other 25% can be of any. Questions, comments?
#2 Endarire Mar 25, 2005 13:46:53	Tell me if I'm mistaken, but what about casters just casting spells daily for experience? As a Wizard, I could devote days worth of spell slots to Mage Armor, Invisibility, Keen Edge, etc. to milk the system. I also realize that DMs have the final say, but this system seems more like a guideline than a ruleset. -EE
#3 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2005 16:21:38	You're basic argument appears to be: a wizard who does little-to-no fighting suddenly takes a level in Fighter because he feels like it. Is that realistic? Probably not. Instead of changing the XP system, just simply disallow people to multiclass without reason/mentor and/or time. It's an idea I commonly use. If a person starts off as a Fighter, and later wants to become a Wizard - they've got to go study during some downtime, and/or find a wizard to train them in the basic principles of Arcana. Simply stating "I'm a wizard now," is not a viable solution to taking an extra class. Even in the PHB, it states that wizards gain 2 spells/level of their choice BECAUSE they're always studying - a concept of downtime is practically integrated into the game mechanics. However, there are a few classes that a person could "spontaneously" gain levels in, the two biggest being Psion (EPH), Divine Champion (CD) and Sorcerer. This is because these characters use innate abilities / force of will in order to do what they do, not studied practice. (And normally use Charisma as their saving throws because of it.)
#4 r-man Mar 26, 2005 4:33:35	Interesting concept but how would a character who wishes to multiclass into Sorcerer and has no levels in any spellcasting class gain a level in sorcerer? He doesn't have any ability to gain Arcane XP. This also applies for any unusual mix of classes that may require xp in wildly different areas.
#5 nedlum Mar 26, 2005 20:47:56	I could be wrong, but doesn't this system make it impossible to multiclass into a spell casting class, if you don't have spells to begin with?
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 28, 2005 17:55:43	Barbarian: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defense EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP Bard: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP Cleric: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, 25% Divine EXP Druid: 25% Combat EXP, and 50% Divine EXP Fighter: 50% Combat EXP, and 25% Defensive EXP Paladin: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, 25% Divine EXP Ranger: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Defensive EXP, and 25% Skillful EXP Rouge: 25% Skillful EXP, 25% Combat EXP, and 25% Defense EXP Sorcerer: 25% Combat EXP, 25% Skillful EXP, and 25% Arcane EXP Wizard: 25% Skillful EXP, and 50% Arcane EXP Ignoring psi, there are 5 categories of xp, so 5x5x5= 125 different combinations, but you manage to use 25combat/25defense/25skill on three of them: barbarian, ranger, rogue. (You just put them in a different order so no one would notice?) I'm pretty sure that 8 skill points per level takes more skill-xp than 2 skill points per-level. You might want to divide it into 20% increments, and just make it 10% per skill point per level skillful xp. So 40% skill for the rogue, 10% skillful for the Wiz. Since I wouldn't give XP in situations for where you could take 10 on a skill check I also wouldn't give it for casting spells in a no stress situation. Why not have naturalist-XP in the list for rangers monks? The monk isn't in your list?
#7 Dan_Hemmens Apr 06, 2005 17:51:46	I question your definition of "realistic". Complicated <> Realistic. Experience points are not supposed to simulate real learning, they are an abstract reward mechanism. "Congratulations, you killed the Beholder, have a cookie". Either ditch XP entirely, or accept that they're an abstraction, don't make life hard on yourself for no good reason.
#8 gilean_dup Apr 13, 2005 7:38:26	D&D experience system only simulates learning in combat with miscellaneous perks such as skills, of which not all are useful in combat. But, in environment with lots of combat and minor parts of skills, magic and such, D&D works...somewhat. Your charts are way off. Most don't meet 100% total, and they also are woefully inaccurate as one of previous posters showed, with one little mistake. Barbarians have 4 skill points. I suggest dividing experience in 6 sections: Arcane (which has magic and studied skills such as learning), divine (magic, misc social skills), martial, nature, rogue (sneaking, acrobatics) and urban (social skills, minor learning and sneaking, perhaps).
#9 the_one_true_shea_dup Apr 26, 2005 16:47:56	I had a friend who tried to make his own d20 based game back before d20 THE GAME came out. It was not horribly complete but it did have a neat XP mechanic. Everytime you took an action you got points. On the spot, and of a type that could only go toward one of three things - your powers (supergame) your body (stats) or the skill used. There was a debate about how a character does a lot more things than just the actions that you roll for in the game. So, he was added a story points concept. Wherein which you tell the gm what you are doing in your "down-time" (his words not mine) and you get points right about the same time you finish telling him. Basically the system was the gm gives you points and tells you to raise skills when he wants to, and at least one for every check.