Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 twistedshadow Jun 09, 2005 11:59:14	I recently came up with what I think is an interesting possibility for a base 1-20 class. The way this concept came about was a friend and I were looking through the books and examining the information surrounding Familiars. What we came up with was a concept that the common familiar that many spell casters has was a lesser version of a greater eldritch tradition, the Arcane Warden. Warriors specially trained to serve as the spell casters companion and protector. We drew a little inspiration from the prestige class of the Thayan Knight. What we finally developed was a basic class that was not only amazingly well balanced but openly rewarded players for developing a pair of character centered on teamwork. We started off by using the basic Ranger class as our template, adjusting class skills, removing all of the original class abilities except endurance. We then added in a number of Bonus fighter feats to give the class the same ability to customize the characters particular fighting style. But in order to keep the fighter as a balanced competition we reduced the number of feats that we gave the class, adjusting the feats to 1 at first level and third level and every 3 levels after that. Thus giving the class the feel of a trained fighter who had sacrificed hit points and the number of feats, for other benefits. We also crafted a limited list of spells for the class in a 6 level table which gives the class a little of a balancing punch. The Arcane Pact Next we began focusing on what benefits would the two characters entering into this bond receive, and what was required of them to enter into such a pact. We first agreed that in order for a spell caster to enter into this pact they would need to take a feat. Which we named Arcane Pact and set it with the requirement of having the Familiar class ability or feat (complete arcane) for the benefits of the pact we looked at the table for the benefits of Familiar. While working on the effects of the pact we developed a number of special class abilities for the warden that would only function with the pact. Including the spell storing and the channel spell fire abilities. Finally we began rounding out the character and added Endurance and Die Hard bonus feats to help round out the character and to give the warden a better ability to survive. We also created a range limitation for these benefits which would force the two characters to stay close together during combat. The Price to Pay finally we turned our attention to the dangers and possible repercussions of one of the characters dying. This we modeled almost exactly after the penalties a spell caster would face for losing a familiar and put together a number of different "what if" test to look for loop holes or aspects that would be interesting for play. Once we had work out all of this we sat down and put everything together. It is my profound hope that staff at wizards of the coast might review this class and possibly publish it in one of their future books. For everyone else I hope that you enjoy this class and I would love to hear about some of the character it inspires. Below I have submitted the finished product of our work, The arcane Warden Class: Arcane Warden Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d8. Class Skills The Warden’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcane) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spell Craft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier Level___BAB__________Fort_Ref_Will___Special 1st:____+1___________+2__+2__+0___Arcane Pact, Bonus Feat 2nd:____+2___________+3__+3__+0___Store spell energy 3rd:____+3___________+3__+3__+1___Bonus Feat 4th:____+4___________+4__+4__+1___Endurance 5th:____+5___________+4__+4__+1___Channel spell fire(1) 6th:____+6/1_________+5__+5__+2___Bonus Feat 7th:____+7/2_________+5__+5__+2___ 8th:____+8/3_________+6__+6__+2___Diehard, Channel(2) 9th:____+9/4_________+6__+6__+3___Bonus Feat 10th:___+10/5________+7__+7__+3___ 11th:___+11/6/1______+7__+7__+3___ 12th:___+12/7/2______+8__+8__+4___Bonus Feat, Channel(3) 13th:___+13/8/3______+8__+8__+4___ 14th:___+14/9/4______+9__+9__+4___ 15th:___+15/10/5_____+9__+9__+5___Bonus Feat 16th:___+16/11/6/1___+10_+10_+5___Channel(4) 17th:___+17/12/7/2___+10_+10_+5___ 18th:___+18/13/8/3___+11_+11_+6___Bonus Feat 19th:___+19/14/9/4 __+11_+11_+6___ 20th:___+20/15/10/5__+12_+12_+6___Channel(5) Below are the descriptions of the class abilities above Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An Arcane Warden is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields). Arcane Pact: Arcane Wardens have the unique ability to forge a bond with an arcane spell caster similar to that of a familiar. To do so the Warden must find a willing arcane spell caster, and enter into a magically bonding pact with them. Doing so requires 24 hours and magical components that cost 200gp. Once completed the two are joined in much the same manner as a familiar, however neither party has magical command over the other, and either party can choose to dismiss the bond should they feel inclined, though both parties would have to endure the effects of this as if they had dismissed a familiar. (See below for more details) Bonus Feats: Arcane Wardens receive bonus feats at 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level which may be selected from the list of fighter feats so long as he meets all of the feats requirements. Store Spell Energy: At 2nd level a Warden gains the ability to store spell energy for his caster. The caster is able to draw from this stored energy in the same manner as she would draw spell energy from a rod of absorption. The Warden can only hold levels of energy equal to his Wisdom Modifier + (Warden Level/2) The arcane warden can only receive stored energy from his caster, he can not refill this energy with his own spells or the spells of another spell caster. An arcane warden can hold his stored spell energy until his caster draws it or it is otherwise expended. In order for an arcane warden to replenish his spell he must enter a meditation while his caster casts spells upon him that are canceled and their power stored. This process takes 10 minutes plus the casting time of all spells used. Endurance: At 4th level an arcane warden gains Endurance as a bonus feat. Spells: Beginning at 4th level, an arcane warden gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, which are drawn from the arcane warden spell list. An arcane warden must choose and prepare his spells in advance (see below). To prepare or cast a spell, an arcane warden must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an arcane warden’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the arcane warden’s Wisdom modifier. Like other spell casters, an arcane warden can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Arcane warden. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. When Table: The Arcane warden indicates that the arcane warden gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. An arcane warden prepares spells through meditation for 1 hour, though he does not require a spell book to prepare his spell. An arcane warden may prepare and cast any spell on the arcane warden spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation. Through 3rd level, an arcane warden has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his arcane warden level. An arcane wardens spells are mainly focused on defense and utility spells rather then damaging spells. Channel Spell Fire (Su): At 5th level an arcane warden gains the ability to convert his stored spell energy into raw spell fire and direct it at his enemies either as a touch attack or through his weapon. For each spell level of energy the Warden uses in this way he deals 1d6 damage to the damage of the attack. If he channels this energy through a weapon attack he adds an additional 1d6 per spell level expended (Spell fire damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.) If he channels this through a weapon the weapon takes half damage from the spell fire as well [(spell fire damage/2) -Hardness= damage to weapon hit] the warden can never expend more spell levels then his level/5 +his wisdom modifier per use. Diehard: At 8th level an arcane warden gains the diehard feat as a bonus feat. Arcane Pact Level____AC Bonus__Range___Special 1-2 _______+1_____10ft_____Alertness, Empathic Link, Share Spells, improved Evasion 3-4________+2_____20ft_____Deliver Touch Spells, Improved Uncanny Dodge 5-6________+3_____30ft_____Channel Spells, Two-As-One 7-8________+3_____40ft 9-10_______+4_____50ft 11-12______+4_____60ft_____Spell Resistance 13-14______+5_____70ft 15-16______+5_____80ft 17-18______+6_____90ft 19-20______+6_____100ft Arcane Wardens can enter into a special pact with a single spell caster, In order for a spell caster to participate in this powerful ritual they must either have the Arcane Pact Feat or have selected it in place of their Summon Familiar class ability. Spell casters with both Arcane Pact and Familiar may choose to have either but not both. Bonding: Once a warden and a spell caster have undergone the arcane pact ritual they are considered bonded. Both participants gain bonuses based on the level of the arcane warden, if both participants have levels of arcane warden then the levels of each participant stack for determining the bond level. Although neither party in the bond has dominance over the other, arcane wardens usually defer to their spell caster on terms of goals and planning moves, allowing to the warden to focus on his primary goal, protecting his partner from any threat. Dodge Bonus: The members of the bond share a mutual dodge bonus to AC this bonus increases as the warden increases in level and must be divided up between the caster and the warden. Each round on the warden’s turn he may adjust how much of a dodge bonus each member of the bond gets. Bond Range: This designates the maximum distance that the two members of the pact can be apart from each other and still receive the benefits of the bond. Familiar Powers: As with a normal familiar both members of the bond gain the alertness feat, improved evasion, share spells, and empathic link while within the bond range as per the normal abilities granted to a familiar. Deliver Touch Spells: As with a familiar the caster in the bond may have her warden deliver a touch spell for her so long as the warden is with the bond range when the spell the warden is designated to deliver is cast. Improved Uncanny Dodge: While in bond range both warden and caster gain improved uncanny dodge and cannot be flanked except by a rogue 4 levels higher then the warden’s level. However the warden and caster can be flanked if both are being flanked at the same time. Channel Spell: This ability allows the caster and warden to combine the effects of Deliver Touch Spells and the warden Channel Spell Fire class abilities, allowing the caster to channel a spell into the warden to be used as per the Channel spell fire ability. (Touch attack or weapon attack) Two-As-One: This potent ability increases the strength and abilities of the bond. Both characters truly begin to function like two halves of the same person in the form of special sharing abilities. One life: The warden and the caster effectively pool hit points. Either character can willingly give hit points to the other. This ability is very much a double edged sword since transferring hit points weakens one member to heal the other. Both members of the bond are also acutely aware of the condition of their partner. If they are within bond range they know with a great degree of accuracy, outside of the bond range they have a general idea such as “Injured, Critical, Sick, Healthy, Dying” this diminishes with distance but they will always know if their partner is alive, dying, or dead. Telepathy: Both members of the Bond are able to communicate with one another. Works as the Telepathic Bond spell with the warden’s class level serving as the caster level. Pool Spells: With the ability to communicate telepathically either member of the bond may cast a spell prepared by the other. This is treated as if the character were reading from a scroll as they read the spell from the other characters mind. Shared Saves: As with a normal familiar both members of the bond are able to use whichever of the two’s base save is higher when making saving throws. Mental Double Team: When ever one member of the bond is unaffected by a mind affecting spell the other character is allowed to make a new saving throw on his partners turn each round that they are within bond range to shake off the affect. Due to the Bond a warden or caster affected by a mind altering spell view actions against his/her bond partner to be acts against him/her self and rules of the spell apply as such. Know Direction: Each member of the bond is so strongly connected to one another that even if separated by great distances each member knows what direction their partner is in and a vague idea of distance. Ever flowing Life: the sharing of life has a surprising effect on the warden, A warden’s aging process is greatly slowed, and while bonded a warden’s aging slows to half its normal rate, because of this some bonded spell casters will groom a successor to pass their bond to. Know Every Move: If either member of the bond attempts to make a ranged attack against a target engaged in melee with their partner is treated as if they had the precise shot feat. If the making a ranged attack at a target that is grappling with your partner treat the attack as if the bond member has the Improved Precise Shot Feat. Spell Resistance: As with normal familiars, when the warden reaches 11th level, the members of the bond gain spell resistance of the warden’s level +5 ARCANE PACT NOTES: Death of the Warden: much like with a familiar the death of the warden is a physically and mentally devastating event which carries the same penalties as a wizard would normally suffer for losing his familiar. For the spell caster all of the normal rules for the loss of a familiar apply, including the time they must wait before gaining a new warden. Death of the Spell Caster: As above the death of a warden’s spell caster, is physically and mentally devastating and often causes the warden to become very reckless and many throw away their lives in vain attempts to avenge their caster. Wardens suffer the same experience penalty as a spell caster would for losing a familiar. However if a warden still has levels of stored spell energy from his caster he does not suffer the experience loss until he expended or lost all of these remaining levels of spell energy, but as long as he retains this energy he can not enter into another bond. An arcane warden must wait 6 months after suffering the penalties of losing his bond before he can enter into a new arcane pact. An arcane warden only retains stored spell energy if the caster is killed, if the bond is dismissed the warden loses all stored spell energy. Losing stored energy: Each day after the death of his spell caster a Warden must make a will save DC10+ Half the level of his spell caster or lose one level of stored spell energy. Usually a warden will use the time their remaining charge affords them to one of two goals, either looking for a way to return their caster to life, or seeking to avenge their caster. Often an avenging warden will save his charge to unleash against the person who killed his caster. Once the warden loses his final level of stored spell energy he immediately suffers the experience penalties of losing his bond. Passing the Bond: because of how rare arcane wardens are, many spell casters will select a successor who they wish to pass their bond to, usually as they near the end of their life or wish to retire. In order for the bond to be passed the new caster must meet the requirements for entering into an arcane pact and all three parties must undergo a ritual that takes 24 hours and cost magical components equal to 500gp. During this ritual the new spell caster is partially connected to the bond but gains no benefit from it. However when the original spell caster dies or dismisses the arcane pact only the original spell caster suffers the effects of losing the bond and the warden has a temporary bond with his new caster and only knows which direction and a vague idea of distance. The two must undergo the arcane pact ritual to strengthen the bond before the warden loses his remaining stored spell levels or he will also suffer the effects of having lost the bond. The ritual also purges the warden of his remaining stored spell charges. If the original spell caster is resurrected before the temporary bond is made whole the warden’s bond remains with his original caster and the partial connection with the successor is severed. Casters usually are wary about making such arrangements since an unscrupulous successor might engineer the casters early demise in order to take over the bond early. Arcane Warden Spell List 1st level Spells Alarm, Accelerated Movement, Critical Strike, Comprehend Language, Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat, Feather fall, Fist of Stone, Guided Shot, Jump, Low-light Vision, Mage Armor, Magic Weapon, Protection from Law/Good/Chaos/Evil, Shield, True strike 2nd level Blade weave, Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Bull Strength, Cats Grace, Cure Moderate Wounds, Darkness, Glitter dust, Heroism, Invisibility, Listening Lore call, Owls Wisdom, Protection from arrows, Returning weapon, Shatter, Spider Climb, Whirling Blade, Wraith strike 3rd Level Arcane Sight, Blink, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Displacement, Fly, Gaseous Form, Gentle Repose, Good Hope, Haste, Invisibility Sphere, Keen Edge, Mage Armor (Greater), Magic Circle vs. Chaos/Evil/Law/Good, Magic Weapon (Greater), Non-detection, See invisible, Spectral Weapon, Unluck 4th Level Cure Critical Wounds, Detect Scrying, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility, Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser), Neutralize Poison, Remove Curse, Stone Skin 5th Level Break Enchantment, Blink (Greater), Interposing Hand, Overland Flight, Pass wall, Permanency 6th Level Brilliant Blade, Forceful Hand, Globe of Invulnerability, Guards & Wards, Heroism (Greater), Shadow Walk, Tensor’s Transformation
#2 the_one_true_shea_dup Jun 14, 2005 10:09:24	Once completed the two are joined in much the same manner as a familiar, however neither party has magical command over the other, and either party can choose to dismiss the bond should they feel inclined, though both parties would have to endure the effects of this as if they had dismissed a familiar. Nope, doesn't say anywhere in the thing that the mage has any sort of command power over the familiar character. The thing just likes you, it's like a cohort only very very small. My initial reactions is that you have built a class that gives you a fighter a wizard "as a familiar" it would work out real well so long as both character's are players. Amazingly convenient - the two classes that get hurt the most are given a double hit point pool. Sorta, the flexibility of the "two-as-one" abilities (I am simply going to assume that the list of abilities underneath two as one are the multiple OPTIONS that you get to choose when you get the two as one trait - once. Choose once? Formatting - I like it. 'Cept for that bit on the familiar abilities description pile. You should take "One life, Telepathy, Pool Spells, Shared Saves, Mental Double Team, Know Direction, Ever flowing Life, and Know Every Move" and change them from [/b] to [/i]. If you are providing the arcanist as an outside NPC this class gets a little more dicey. There are really no precedents for having a rule that actually refers whether or not. Wait there are special rules for targeting PCs vs NPCs with some rare (usually social skill rolls) circumstances. Basically, it looks great super and keen for two party members, but if the wizard is an NPC then you are basically throwing leadership into 1-20 base class - now a leader 1-20 base class? idea, Maybe add (more accurately remove) some of the special features from the current write up to special list of abilities that the wizard class - like the Wizard gets to choose which "two as one" abilities are active? Or you only get the die hard ability if you have a PC as your spellcaster? Where did die hard get in there anyway? On the flip side, the more class features of the character you put into the hands of an NPC ... leaves allot of room for DMs to toy with people. Goodly or Badly. One more thought before I go - SpellFire Rules! I have often thought that spellcasters should have an innate spellfire (or similar) spontaneous casting style. "I won't need my book today. I am a maelstrom of eldritch energy. My spittle is the very acid of the universe" kinda feel.
#3 carpe_diem_02 Jun 19, 2005 3:26:53	Wow, seems I'm pretty early in the replies. I must say, I like the concept, it's not recycled or really based off of anything else so it's good in my books (not like those Wu Jen). Very generally, I like it and you are right, it's pretty balanced but their are a few things I don't like. Warden makes it sound like a jailer, use something more protector sounding. Sentinel is an example, but it still doesn't sound right. Drop the skill points down to 4 because that is a little more average, 6 seems way to high. As a bonded pair, I don't know how useful Move Silently and Hide are going to be if you've got a big clunky Wizard tailing you, but I guess solo recon is optional. For store spell energy, make it so that the limit on storage is 24 hours otherwise it's like having free scrolls. Scrolls cost money because they let you cast more spells a day than you normally could. When a wizard stores a spell, his pal can cast it if my understanding is correct, so that is benefit enough. Endurance seems a little odd for the class as well, if he were a Arcane Pack Mule then he would need endurance. As a Protector, he needs armour which brings me to my next point. Arcane magic means that your pal is going to suffer from Spell Failure. I would suggest giving him the Armoured Mage ability, even if the only level he has it to is light armour. Channel Spell Fire is similar to some feats, but I don't think it should damage the weapon you use, that's just too much to keep track of. If they use it as a touch attack, they you calculate damage normally; if they use it with a weapon, then the attack is no longer a touch attack. That seems fair and is much less complicated. Oh and there's a little typo, according to the chart it's his level divided by four. If you include the wisdom modifier though, then the chart won't tell you much. Originally posted by the_one_true_shea Where did die hard get in there anyway? I'm not sure where Die Hard came from either, it doesn't seem to suit the class really. Seeing as the class is based mostly around the bonus feats it gains, I don't think it's really necessary to put Die Hard in there either. Now, I could see maybe Spell Mastery because he can't choose it normally, but I don't like Die Hard. As far as your actual spell write-up, he seems to use divine preparation for arcane magic. Why would he have to meditate for an hour? Why is his key ability modifier wisdom? I think you should say that he needs 15 minutes of concentration and uses Charisma like every class that finds magic a natural part of their being. Then anything else that uses Wisdom such as Store Spell Energy should also use Charisma. He won't have to prepare spells this way either, this seems to suit the Protector theme a little better. Arcane Pact -I didn't know masters got Improved Evasion from their familiar, that's sweet! I am assuming that the Dodge Bonus to AC is the the AC represented on the chart when I say no. Redistributable armour bonuses don't work because the Wizard could fly out of reach and let the Warden have all the bonus or other nasty things like that. The reason a familiar gets it is because it doesn't get better armour as the game progresses - a PC does. If you like though, you could relate his armour to the amount of spell levels stored, the bonus only benefits the Warden though and try to cap it at +5. My suggestion is number of spells stored / 3 so a max of +3, but make a deflection bonus. Dodge bonuses stack with other dodge bonuses. Lose the Uncanny Dodge, that's just sick. The spell resistance should be more of a class feature of the Warden that is usable only if he is bonded with an arcanist. Two-as-One If I understand, they gain all those abilities for getting this right? Well, the pool hit points thing is weird and subject to abuse. They should be able to sense the condition of the other through the empathic link, and by the looks of it they can give each other hit points at will so neither will die as long as their is healing left. I say scrap it, the bond shouldn't do that. The telepathy idea is good, you could also let the wizard scry on his pal once a day like the familiar ability. No shared saves, people shouldn't get that ability. I don't understand the last line in Mental Double-Team. Everflowing Life is like Endurance, it just doesn't work. Scrap it. Put all the animal spells on his second level spell list (Eagle's Splendour, etc.), it's no tougher to learn one than the other and some people like the option. I didn't check the levels of all the spells, but if you lowered the level of any spell you've done too much damage. Not only does your Protector get it at a lower level and thus get more than would a member of another class, but Sorcerers can learn it sooner if he can find a scroll of it. I also noticed that their wasn't a Spells Per Day Table as promised, but I think it'll just be the same as the Bard's and that's okay. Overall real good. You've got the same problem I have when I make classes: you want to make it real personal to you, and you want to sneak in some abilities that wouldn't really apply. I think I'll print this and bring it to my next session and try to get someone to try it. The one last problem is that if you compare this to the Psychic Warrior, you'll realize that this really overpowers it. He gets more spells, more SPD, as many feats, more skills, less armour and more abilities. I hate Psychic Warriors so I don't care so much, but if it's an issue, raise the feats to one every fourth level. Hope this helps!
#4 twistedshadow Jun 22, 2005 14:06:29	Ok lots of things to address here so I am going to try to take care of them one at a time, If I forget one I apologize ahead of time. First lets start with the stored Spell energy; I thought of having it limited to a 24 hour period, but instead I went with limiting how much, since I wanted it to be something that the Warden can hang on to which could help give them time to get a fallen spell caster raised before they suffered losing their bond. Also the major thing you have to remember is that while the stored energy does give the spell caster the ability to cast more spells the Wardens SpellFire ability also draws off of this so it can be quickly depleted in a single difficult encounter since the Warden is likely to use at least some of the stored energy for his spell fire so he can get a momentary boost to his next attack (and if he uses too much he can melt his weapon with that raw power too) and the limitation on how much the warden can store is actually pretty limited, The highest conceivable amount a character of 20th level could hold is may be 18 spell levels, and that is if he has a mind numbing +8 for his wisdom modifier. And the Spell caster is the only one who can replenish the spell energy so in reality its basically a spell power savings account expend a bunch of spell slots now to be able to get a little bonus later. Basically it allows a caster to expend his remaining spells for a day (If he is certain he will not be fighting before he has been able to study his spells for the day) and store them in his partner for the two of them to use when their backs are against the wall. It doesn't work like free scrolls because the caster still has to have the spell he wants to use the energy for prepared/known (wizard or Sorcerer respectively) So he can't suddenly have any spell from his book at a moments notice. So I think that it should stand as it is. The class was intended to be played with both sides being PC's It would be too easy for someone with an NPC caster or warden to abuse its potential. Its ment to be a benefit that requires a balancing act between two players who can only get the most out of it if they concentrate on working together. The Bond. This seems to be the biggest one that people have contention or concerns with. The listings underneath Two-As-One, are all the benefits that are gained from that ability. You don't have to pick which one you want. I know some people will look at this and be like "No Way! that's too much" but if you look at it the way that it is structured, the benefits only apply to the two characters, and have a very limited scope, like the shared hitpoints, may sound super powerful but at the same time, they warden gets less hitpoints then a fighter and is then having to compensate for the casters lack of hitpoints, and every front line fighting character I have ever played or seen played, That HP doesn't last long unless you are an absolute tank. The shared spells is the same way, the Wizard can cast a spell that the warden has prepared from the wardens list, but then the warden can't use that spell that he prepared. so its basically just letting the wizard do it for him while he is fighting. The Mental double team only allows one member to try and snap their partner out of the effects of a mind effecting spell (which means they have to be in the bond range and therefore in more danger) Though I was toying this and changing it to be that when both characters must make a will save both roll a D20 and then both use the roll of who ever got higher, So if one fails likely they both fail. The only one that functions outside bond range is the Know the Direction ability which simply allows the warden and the cater to know the general direction and distance to one another and a very basic idea of their condition (alive/ Dying/ seriously injured) Even the Know Every Move ability is limited. It simply allows the warden or spell caster to make ranged attack or ranged touch attacks against a target in melee or grappling combat with their partner, without fear of hitting their partner, that is the only time it applies. Like the Someone grapples the wizard, the warden can fire a shot at the person grappling his partner without fearing hitting his partner because both of them know where the character is aiming and when and how to move to negate the enemies cover. Also The AC Dodge Bonus, Someone made the statement that the spell caster could just give it all to the Warden and then fly out of combat range. But the bonus still only works if the two characters are within the range of their bond. So a pair of 20th level character would still have to remain within 100ft of one another to get any benefits. And at 20th level, 100ft is not very far when it comes to the capabilities of challenges appropriate to 20th level groups. And a wizard who did that would have to face his very angry warden when the fighting was done since he would have lost all the benefits and been left right in the thick of things while the wizard saved his own skin. The Die Hard feat is an extension of the endurance feat, the warden can keep going till it he literally drops dead. Oh and no spell casters do not normally gain Improved evasion, only their familiar does. That's one of the big bonuses they get. I hope this throws a little perspective on these abilities. If you guys would like, give me your e-mail addresses I will send you a Doc. file copy of the class, and Give it a good acid test as experienced DM's (I am guessing that you all are) I am certain you will find every chink in the armor of this concept and find all of the limitations that I feel keep it from being overpowered in comparison to other classes.
#5 twistedshadow Jun 22, 2005 20:35:14	Carpe Diem, the_one_true_shea. I want to get this out of the way first, I have a high respect for both of you based on replies on other threads and your own posts. (I really enjoyed "Am I intimidating enough" thread, excellent work.) I think that I didn't properly word some of the information on the class. I apologize for that. The spell progression is spells per-day and they are prepared each morning just like wizards. The spells themselves are pulled from the Wizard/Sorcerer list and the Bard list. I didn't tinker with spell levels, If a spell showed up on both list I did however take the lower of the two, like when a spell shows up at a lower level on the bard list. I thought that I did a descent job of keep the spell progression pretty limited, with only max 3 spells per level per day (not counting bonus spells) I had thought of doing the Feats at every 4th level, and also considered changing the base attack to the progress they use for partial fighters like bards and monks. But I am more inclined to do away with the class having spells all together since it seems kind of redundant. I definitely want to stress that the class was designed as an all or nothing in terms of PC's playing the two characters. Either use it with both the caster and warden/protector being NPCs or both as PCs but definitely not mix and match Spell fire damaging weapon--well spellfire is supposed to be so raw and destructive an energy, I just basically wanted to be costly to use more then just a little of it through a weapon, i did the math out and if you do a large shot with the spell fire (4D6 or more) you stand a pretty good chance of turning your sword into a melted wreck, then again a character using this ability would likely want to get himself an adamantine weapon for the increased hardness so that wouldn't happen. I think your right about switching the spells being keyed to Cha instead of Wisdom. Though I think that it might be better just to remove the spell casting ability completely. It makes just a little more sense, with the number of feats. Die Hard feat I threw in there because it was meant to represent the classes ability to push themselves to the absolute limit to ensure the protection of their spell caster. I actually do think that the spell casting for the class should be removed. I actually have the class in a Doc. File. I am going to make a couple of changes to it and see what you two think on it after that. Here are the changes I am planning: Bye Bye Spells Get rid of Die hard Possibly switch endurance to a bond feature for both parties (which also means it only functions when they are within the bond range) Keep feat progression, Base attack, saves and other class features the same. (including leaving the class features tied to wisdom) Shoot me an e-mail and I will send you both a copy of the .doc once it is completed. I think you can pull my e-mail off my profile on the message board if not here it is. [email]finnnochin@aol.com[/email] Thanks for all of your help.
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2005 21:37:35	This idea sounds very much like a Warder from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. Warders are the body guards and companions of the Aes Sedia (spell casting women) The bond was different, as the Aes Sedia was always in control of the bond, and could even place a bond against the would-be Warder's will.