I'm an AD&D2ed fan, and I'll never skip to 3.x
Same here.
You may want to also check on Dragonsfoot (google it). Its a dedicated OOP D&D forum.
IMHO, everything past 2e was produced simply to make $$$, nothing more.
IIRC, that's also the case for 1e (Gygax made AD&D so TSR wouldn't have to pay royalties to Arneson for D&D), and 2e (one of Lorraine Williams's decisions).
But I could be wrong.
IIRC, that's also the case for 1e (Gygax made AD&D so TSR wouldn't have to pay royalties to Arneson for D&D), and 2e (one of Lorraine Williams's decisions).
But I could be wrong.
Urban legend. TSR settled with Arneson. And the "Dungeons and dragons" name continued as a product for 10+ years after the release of AD&D.
All hail ad&d!
Urban legend. TSR settled with Arneson. And the "Dungeons and dragons" name continued as a product for 10+ years after the release of AD&D.
Actually Wizards settled with Dave. I heard it from him personally.
I actually like 1st ed. the most less math than any other and more flexibility for DMs.
It is still hard to find players of any edition. D&D has gone back out of style.
Unfortunately, the only DMs and players I can find play 3.5.
Actually Wizards settled with Dave. I heard it from him personally.
I actually like 1st ed. the most less math than any other and more flexibility for DMs.
It is still hard to find players of any edition. D&D has gone back out of style.
i've had no problems finding gamers. the majority are playing the newest editions.
but i'm still refereeing an OD&D(1974) campaign. using the boxed set and supplements I-IV. plus Chainmail, Outdoor Survival, and The Strategic Review upto issue 6
It was a little bit of a challenge finding old players. I used some internet forums, posted ads and attended meetings. Try www.meetup.com and look under D&D. You can input your zip code to find the closest groups to you. If none, you can start your own. I just kept sending out emails to potentials until I had enough players. I still keep the ads up for future players if our group shrinks.
I'd play in a 2e game in a heartbeat, time permitting.
I just started getting back into gaming again. I'm currently DMing a group, playing a mix of 1st/2nd edition. I expect 7 players this Saturday with a couple more not showing up.
It was a little bit of a challenge finding old players. I used some internet forums, posted ads and attended meetings. Try www.meetup.com and look under D&D. You can input your zip code to find the closest groups to you. If none, you can start your own. I just kept sending out emails to potentials until I had enough players. I still keep the ads up for future players if our group shrinks.
don't limit yourself to old players. i've taught total n00bs to rpgs OD&D(1974).
i've used accessdenied.net, the community boards here on WotC, and also Gamers seeking Gamers on ENWorld and rpg.net.
i get emails all the time still asking me about games in my area.
Cheers Tess
Have been playing 2nd edition since 1996, took it with me to university and have been running 2nd edition ever since. No need to change, also I already have a meter or 2 of material. I don't need more books, even if the artwork has improved somewhat here and there ;)
(Wish me luck please, I'll need it.)
I tend to consider Hackmaster material as pretty much official 2e sourcebooks since the modifications needed are so minor, and constantly use 1e material with on the fly conversion as well.
I tried 3e and C&C, but the d20 mechanics present in both, while not flawed in any great way, just aren't "d&d enough" for my liking. I'd rather convert the material to 2e.
HALP!
LOL, well I'll be posting my opinion of the plot bastardization that's been done to many of the settings in this same forum.
currently considering going back to 2nd edition because I miss the flavor. I just need to convince my players
I have almost been in a similar position, in that I had a group of fellow workers, expecting to play 3rd Edt & I produced the Classic First Edt DND Players. If I actually kept it under wraps & told them I wanted to use a bunch of home rule Mods they wouldn't have been non the wiser. The game never got off the ground because they refussed to get Retro.
Therese
I like my combat quick and simple, at any power level. I hate minis and concentration checks and stuff like that that bogs down the game. It should take no more than 30 seconds to one minute to resolve someone's turn, IMO.
Back in 1994 I remember going through about a dozen combat encounters in a night. My most recent games (Living Greyhawk this past summer) got through two combats in a four hour period.
My PBeM is 2nd edition, and has been going since February 2000. Apparently, there's more than a few gamers who prefer 2nd Edition AD&D.
My experiences in gaming at a local gaming store with 2nd Ed when all they had to sell was 3.5 is that the 2 or 3 3.5 games that were being run in the same facility kept losing players to my 2nd Ed game. After a while, I was turning people away every gaming session.
If some of you want to play the earlier editions and your group has stuck on 3rd, you could do your own scenario and offer to DM, so they can see what all the debate is about.
The funny thing is, D&D will probably come full circle as many things do, and maybe 4e or 5e will be precisely the same as 1e... lol
LOL indeed. :P
Chances are, you'll see 4e coming out in another 2 or 3 years...
Then, the same damn cycle will repeat itself again.
I'm so glad I stopped getting into new systems with 2e (though I did buy some of the Lord of the Rings RPG stuff from Decipher, as I like the system).
I'd say YES there is a large and potentially growing segment who profoundly enjoy AD&D. Maybe if we keep on going, we'll even get some new reprints of the basic books. I'm starting to have trouble finding them locally.
eBay, man... Sometimes, you get lucky. Just bought the Accessory "Shaman", new & still in shrink wrap... for $2.
Got the Ravenloft Boxed set (the second one edition, with the DM screen, Tarokka deck and what not - detailing the change in the Domains after the Grand Conjunction), plus 2 adventures and 1 accessory, for $13.
Obviously, shipping is on top of that, but local dealers (if they even have this OOP stuff) are either terribly overpriced, or have copies that are well used.
I don't mind buying used, but prefer stuff to be new or nearly new, since the rest of my stuff is in pretty pristine condition - even my 3 Forgotten Realms "God Books" (even though they've been used A LOT).
On the same token, there are eBay sellers who will **** you for OOP stuff. Best to set yourself reasonable limits and let the greedy ones sell to someone else.
The funny thing is, D&D will probably come full circle as many things do, and maybe 4e or 5e will be precisely the same as 1e... lol
Yes. Which is why WotC made the rules for their current incarnation of the game free but not previous incarnations. (^_^)
The funny thing is, D&D will probably come full circle as many things do, and maybe 4e or 5e will be precisely the same as 1e... lol
3E actually tried to cater to the 1E crowd as well as to gamers/customers not already D&D fans. Greyhawk as the default setting, a return to Dungeon Crawls, miniatures, Barbarians, Monks and half-orcs were all moves that were included for the sole purpose of attracting 1E fans.
I doubt WotC will rid itself of the D20 mechanic, feats or skills in the next edition, but you may be onto something if my coming full circle you mean bringing in some things from 2E which were not carried over into 3E. Perhaps resurrecting old settings (Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Planescape?) and a return to a less cinematic kind of game, as 2E also was a more away from the IMO more cinematic 1E.
Havard
must not be worth playing cause i have never noticed it.
There is something made after AD&D 2e?
must not be worth playing cause i have never noticed it.
That's the kind of mentality I need for my gamers. :D
I still have 2 die-hards who still ask me (occasionally) if I plan to move to 3e with my PBeM...
3E actually tried to cater to the 1E crowd as well as to gamers/customers not already D&D fans. Greyhawk as the default setting, a return to Dungeon Crawls, miniatures, Barbarians, Monks and half-orcs were all moves that were included for the sole purpose of attracting 1E fans.
I doubt WotC will rid itself of the D20 mechanic, feats or skills in the next edition, but you may be onto something if my coming full circle you mean bringing in some things from 2E which were not carried over into 3E. Perhaps resurrecting old settings (Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Planescape?) and a return to a less cinematic kind of game, as 2E also was a more away from the IMO more cinematic 1E.
Havard
It's possible they'll reintroduce old settings, but what I was thinking was that, in an effort to recreate the game yet again in a future edition, they'll come up with something they think is brand new and original, but it'll actually be not unlike 1e... who knows? I imagine we won't have all that long to wait, considering how fast they churned out the 3.5e stuff...
It's possible they'll reintroduce old settings, but what I was thinking was that, in an effort to recreate the game yet again in a future edition, they'll come up with something they think is brand new and original, but it'll actually be not unlike 1e... who knows? I imagine we won't have all that long to wait, considering how fast they churned out the 3.5e stuff...
3 years?
I'd say a natural further development would be towards something like True20 or C&C. But since those games are already around...
As for 1e-ish, we already have Hackmaster.
But really? going back to THAC0 (or lower AC is better) and no skills/feats? Doesn't seem likely to me...
At best they would do something like C&C and stick the skills with the optional rules...
Håvard
we like THAC0 - about the same as now right?
we don't like feats.
we like "secondary" skills better
PS: if i were to write a new system i'd make it a D30.
not try to fix THACO with just flip/flopping it.
eBay, man... Sometimes, you get lucky. Just bought the Accessory "Shaman", new & still in shrink wrap... for $2.
Got the Ravenloft Boxed set (the second one edition, with the DM screen, Tarokka deck and what not - detailing the change in the Domains after the Grand Conjunction), plus 2 adventures and 1 accessory, for $13.
Obviously, shipping is on top of that, but local dealers (if they even have this OOP stuff) are either terribly overpriced, or have copies that are well used.
I don't mind buying used, but prefer stuff to be new or nearly new, since the rest of my stuff is in pretty pristine condition - even my 3 Forgotten Realms "God Books" (even though they've been used A LOT).
On the same token, there are eBay sellers who will **** you for OOP stuff. Best to set yourself reasonable limits and let the greedy ones sell to someone else.
Yes ebay is a really good place to buy stuff for AD&D. I need a DM screen but I can never find em on ebay.
Urban legend. TSR settled with Arneson. And the "Dungeons and dragons" name continued as a product for 10+ years after the release of AD&D.
Not so much. AD&D WAS created to get Arneson's name off the credits for D&D. The basic set was ORIGINALLY intended to be a lead in to Advanced D&D but they had to continue D&D as part of the final settlement so they were supporting 2 game lines.
That's too bad... their loss. From what I hear, once 3.5e characters get to what, 10th level or so, it can take an entire evening to determine the outcome of melee.
Patently not true. There actually isn't a lot of difference in the amount of time it takes to resolve combats and such in 3e as compared to previous editions. 3e DOES take a little bit longer because you get more attacks but it isn't that much. That said...
I am working on a new world for a campaign in 1e that I will start in the spring with a select group of players. It will be houseruled a bit so that Wizards aren't so hosed at 1-4th level, I'm going to let them have max HP rather than roll and give them a wand or two. I was really missing some of the feel of the previous editions. I like 3e, it is D&D to me but it also has its own feel as D&D while AD&D has its own feel as well that I miss in my games.
Patently not true. There actually isn't a lot of difference in the amount of time it takes to resolve combats and such in 3e as compared to previous editions. 3e DOES take a little bit longer because you get more attacks but it isn't that much.
Patently not true. My group has played 3e & 1981 classic D&D. We regularly get three combats (as well as other stuff) done in one night with classic D&D. With 3e we seldom make it through more than one combat a night.
I am looking for players and DM alike who enjoy 2e.
Lynx,
Last of the true bards of cyberspace.
sample AD&D combat:
DM: "Through the rain you see an orc and a wizard. The wizard starts casting."
on player's initiative
Player: "I hit the wizard with my two-handed sword." rolls 15 on a d20. "Let's see, he's AC 9 and my THAC0 is 19, so I need a 10 to hit." rolls 1d10 for damage, rolls a 5. "My strength is 16 so I did 6 damage."
DM:"As the thunder rages and the wind batters, you slash the wizard with your sword, tearing him asunder."
Sample 3.5 combat turn:
DM: "Through the rain you see an orc and a wizard. The wizard starts casting."
on player's initiative
Player: Moves his mini past an orc to a spellcaster.
DM: "That's going to incur an attack of opportunity, you know."
Player: "I'll tumble past"
DM does some math to figure out the DC based on four or five conditional modifiers Your Tumble DC is 27.
Player luckily rolls a 18, has 5 ranks in tumble, and has a DEX mod of +4, for a total of 27.
"Great job. You tumble past the orc without incurring an AoO."
Player: Now for my standard action I attack the spellcaster to disrupt his spellcasting. I use my greatsword."
Player rolls 13 on 1d20. I have weapon focus, 18 STR, and and +2 BAB, so I hit AC 20." Is that enough to hit?
DM: "Yes. Damage?"
Player: Rolls 7 on 2d6 "I did let's see 7 + 4 + 1 for weapon spec, total 12, does that drop him?"
DM: No, but he's wounded bad. Let me check his concentration."
"It's raining hard so he needs to make a DC 5.
He took 7 hp from the greatsword, that's DC 17. rolls a 13 and a 12His will save is +5 so he just barely made it. He finishes his spell. Roll saves for half damage"
Players roll, then the DM rolls damage. The players then factor in their energy resistances to figure out just how much damage was taken)
During the next turn, the player tries to grapple the wizard while another bull rushes him after taking an AoO from the orc, who power attacks. Another player throws some caltrops on the ground. The wizard is trying to cast another spell and is casting defensively with combat casting. I'm not even going to try to figure out the concentration DC on that.
I see two or three things here: (1) AD&D was a lot simpler (although BATTLESYSTEM made AD&D bog down just as much as 3.5 does - don't use it), (2) AD&D had a lot less attention to detail, and (3) it's a pain to calculate DCs sometimes.
And this is low level combat. That's why it takes forever to figure out in 3.5, there's lots of tumbling and AoOs and grappling, and just look at the AC descriptions. AD&D had "AC:7" where 3.5 goes into flat-footed (oh yeah, I forgot to add that to my example), touch, deflection, sacred, etc.. Not to mention that if you use minis you find that movement can be a pain.
Just my 2 cents.
It's the minis, man.
I like the minis, but I think once the rules of mini use starts to bog down the game, that's when there's too many rules governing movement and actions.
sample AD&D combat:
Sample 3.5 combat turn:
I love these examples. Good job.
And this is low level combat. That's why it takes forever to figure out in 3.5, there's lots of tumbling and AoOs and grappling, and just look at the AC descriptions. AD&D had "AC:7" where 3.5 goes into flat-footed (oh yeah, I forgot to add that to my example), touch, deflection, sacred, etc.. Not to mention that if you use minis you find that movement can be a pain.
Cumbersome. I like how AD&D is more simple, and can easily accept any house rules to taste.
I've been an AD&D fan since it was a pupae, and I've never seen the need to upgrade and probably never will. It's the perfect butterfly for me.
It's the minis, man.
sample AD&D combat:
Sample 3.5 combat turn:
I see two or three things here: (1) AD&D was a lot simpler (although BATTLESYSTEM made AD&D bog down just as much as 3.5 does - don't use it), (2) AD&D had a lot less attention to detail, and (3) it's a pain to calculate DCs sometimes.
And this is low level combat. That's why it takes forever to figure out in 3.5, there's lots of tumbling and AoOs and grappling, and just look at the AC descriptions. AD&D had "AC:7" where 3.5 goes into flat-footed (oh yeah, I forgot to add that to my example), touch, deflection, sacred, etc.. Not to mention that if you use minis you find that movement can be a pain.
I never use minis for 3e. They are optional. And I don't calculate DCs. I simply set them. Never had any problems with differentiated ACs since those are precalculated.
Havard
I started playing D&D back in 1980. I started in a little adventure known as the Keep on the Boarderlands, with just me and my best friend at the time. After that it was all I could do. I ate,slept, and breathed Dungeons and Dragons. 1st ed and then 2nd ed, both great games. I DMed most of the time, playing when I could,(hard to do because noone else wanted to DM). We had some great adventures and good times. I played actively up untill about 1996. Had all my stuff, we're talking everything, books,mods,minis,years of notebooks full of info, Stolen by my former roommates. So I stopped playing untill now. About 6 months ago, I started buying it all back on ebay. Slowly building it back up, but unfortuneatly could no longer find anyone to play 1st or 2nd ed,all play 3.5. So now this coming Saturday, I will be returning to play in my first ever attempt at 3.5. Dont know how I'll like it,but dont want to give it up. I guess I find out what all the hypes about 3.5. Hard to beleive something could replace 1st and 2nd ed.
Pity, that. There are some of us around.
If you happened to live in Toronto, I'd say drop me a line, and we'll start a group.
At the moment my biggest gripes about 3.x is that there are too many rules and it stifles the creativity. I liked that 2nd edition had a basic set of rules from which you could make an intelligent ruling for any situation not covered in the rules. Unfortunately, this could be really bad in the hands of an inconsistant and/or incompetant DM. But, I found those to be the exceptions to the norm. Most DM's I played with made good decisions. With 3.x there is practially a rule to cover every possible situation, and this can be very cumbersome to deal with.
I also love 2nd edition because it prompts people to think. I've played quite a few games of 3.0 and 3.5 and found it very disturbing that the characters would enter a room and the players would say, "I make a spot check!" What the heck is up with that? That's not roleplaying as far as I'm concerned. I prefet to say, "I scan the room for anything that looks out of place or dangerous." Sure, the DM would then say, "OK, make a spot check," but that is one of the jobs of the DM. I think that players should react that way as often as possible instead of automatically reaching for the dice. The first instinct of the players, in my opinion, should be to reach for their thinking caps and their imagination instead of the dice, when the situation permits. Sure, there are times when you should reach for the dice first, but if you can, think first.
I've heard from some 3.x players who said that a fighter shouldn't be allowed to probe around with a 10' pole to find any possible pit traps because the only people who should be able to search for traps are those with the appropriate skill. This is just slavish adherence to the rules. I see that a lot in D&D. People quoting the Rules As Written as if they were carved in stone and people saying that Rule 0 is cheating make me cringe and worry about the future of the game.
I like to think that the early versions of the game thrived because they required the use of imagination. Now, with the "required" use of minis and combat mats and a rule for just about everything, it seems that the only areas where the imagination is used is in the creation of adventures and the creation of characters. I see very little creativitity and use of imagination during the games of 3.x that I've played.
Now, my officiall philosophy is that everyone shoule play the system that they like and enjoy D&D for the sake of playing D&D. And, everyone should also accept the fact that other people play other systems and everyone enjoys the game equally, regardless of the system. It's all about D&D. It's not about who's system is better.
Take care and have a great day....
ciao,
john.
I like to think that the early versions of the game thrived because they required the use of imagination. Now, with the "required" use of minis and combat mats and a rule for just about everything, it seems that the only areas where the imagination is used is in the creation of adventures and the creation of characters. I see very little creativitity and use of imagination during the games of 3.x that I've played.
I agree that early versions of the game did thrive becuase they required imagination. And that later versions like 3.0 and 3.5 don't cover that.
But that also goes with the Godd DM thing.
Now, my officiall philosophy is that everyone shoule play the system that they like and enjoy D&D for the sake of playing D&D. And, everyone should also accept the fact that other people play other systems and everyone enjoys the game equally, regardless of the system. It's all about D&D. It's not about who's system is better.
I Like your philosophy but the only problem I see with it is.. the wizards make it to hard to get your hands on the older versions. I think if they wanted to make money, they should sale, group box sets of the older sets. Like $200.00 would get you all of Dragonlance, or planescape. that kinda thing. I think the old gamers or the ones that like the older system would be willing to play 200 for all the books and adventures in a setting. Plus they could then make speaical conversion books for each setting so, you could play planescape, spelljammer and what not in 3.5 and so forth.
I never use minis for 3e. They are optional. And I don't calculate DCs. I simply set them. Never had any problems with differentiated ACs since those are precalculated.
Havard
Some old school guys like to make 3e combat seem more complicated than it really is, pay it no nevermind.
Some old school guys like to make 3e combat seem more complicated than it really is, pay it no nevermind.
But it's more complicated than it needs to be. In older editions, critical hits were optional, encumbrance was optional, weapon speed factors were optional, I could keep going. Nowadays, all the complicated, tricksy stuff is part of the default rules. Attacks of oppurtunity, flanking, flat-footedness, concentration checks, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, we could live without it. Highlight it in blue and call it optional please.
To answer the original question, yep we're still around.
But it's more complicated than it needs to be. In older editions, critical hits were optional, encumbrance was optional, weapon speed factors were optional, I could keep going. Nowadays, all the complicated, tricksy stuff is part of the default rules. Attacks of oppurtunity, flanking, flat-footedness, concentration checks, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, we could live without it. Highlight it in blue and call it optional please.
To answer the original question, yep we're still around.
Agree. Agree. Agree.
Whenever I'm involved with a 3.5 group I want to know exactly how much of the RAW we will adhere to. Because when I DM it's old school. I make the rolls, not the players (don't want some PC screwing up my well conceived plot with a simple die roll!) and I ignore about 50% of the new rules for combat. I pretty much play 3.5 like it was 1e/2e with the feats and skills. I play by the ultimate DMG, what my brain and gut tell me is right.
Some of the new stuff for 3.5 is absolutely amazing in a I-wish-I'd-thought-of-that way, but most of it is really, really unnecessary thus hindering the playability and the creativity. This is just imho.
When you're playing out a fight on a grid map, there are things the rules don't cover but should. For instance, who really stands in one place while they fight? Would four people really try to surround a giant, stand within five feet, and hack away at his shins while he's pounding them with an enormous club? If you're going to do the detailed fighting thing, don't go halfway -- go the whole distance. Make rules for forced movement in combat, or being accidentally trampled if you're that close to something enormous.
There are a few concepts I'm still trying to incorporate from other games, like GURPS, Shadowrun, and Warhammer. Good ideas are where you find them.
I have played several campaigns with the AD&D 2nd Edition system, and I think it rocks. I haven't read the other's edition manuals, but I haven't had a reason to do it yet. So, long life to AD&D 2nd Edition.
An AD&D fan, Yitan Elenion.
The other thing is I have 90% of all the old D&D products and only about 1% of the new stuff. One thing I do lament about is the D&D miniatures. I have bought every single one of them unfortunately I can only use half of them in my AD&D campaign. I guess I could pull some of those monsters into aD&D.
Anyone want to play in Denver?
I live on the Western Slope but you might want to look up the IFGS (International Fantasy Gaming Society) over there. They are live scale gamers but a lot of the old guard would probably be up for some AD&D in the "off season" and around the live scale adventures they do during the warmer months. There are Denver/Boulder and Metro chapters. They may even remember a Cleric of Thoth who formed the old IFGSCS (Colo. Springs) chapter.:D
That said, I think many of the 3E changes had no purpose to them, and that it was generally an unneeded inflation.
Yes, we are still out there, traveling in old Greyhawk.
Also if anyone can fine out information for me, send me a message at [email]Dragonslayergeohound@yahoo.com[/email]
Help you with what?
Right now, I have the 3E core rules which I'm painstakingly going through (also reading d20 with it) and I am also reading the 2E DMG and PHB. For me, the math complexities of both editions make it difficult for anyone to get started. So I'm very curious with the Basic D&D and 1E.
However, I think I can understand this "lack of imagination" the 3E has. My brother would be talking about 'planning the character'. "First, use elf, use weapon finnesse then jack up on dexterity..." The way I see it, people who play D&D and think of this are really losing the point of what a roleplaying game is. I think 3E was designed to be automated (on CRPGs) and the players it draws often think of the rule mechanics and how to come up with a character 'that works' instead of roleplaying and feeling what the character should do.
Just my two cents for what its worth.
Hail AD&D 2e.
I am also reading the 2E DMG and PHB. For me, the math complexities of both editions make it difficult for anyone to get started.
In 2e, look carefully for the things labelled as optional. Ignore anything optional until you feel comfortable with the basics.
Instead of doing the math with THAC0 during play, I prefer to pre-calculate the "to hit" numbers for each AC on the character sheet.
e.g. A 1st level character has a THAC0 of 20 (if I'm remembering my 2e right), so it would look like this:
In 2e, look carefully for the things labelled as optional. Ignore anything optional until you feel comfortable with the basics.
Instead of doing the math with THAC0 during play, I prefer to pre-calculate the "to hit" numbers for each AC on the character sheet.
e.g. A 1st level character has a THAC0 of 20 (if I'm remembering my 2e right), so it would look like this:
Did you get the one with Cthulu and Melnibonean pantheons in it? Enjoy. Just another Gaming Geezer.
Did you get the one with Cthulu and Melnibonean pantheons in it? Enjoy. Just another Gaming Geezer.
I managed to track down this version at a con a few years ago. Badly beaten (it was described as 'well-loved') but with all pages intact. Cthuhulu, Melnibone and the American Indian Mythologies all inside.
Can anyone give me a list of the first ed hardcover books? I'd like to know if my set is actually complete or not.
Many thanks,
Hail the Gaming Geezers!
The actual mechanics of the character creation took less time than the kettle boiling for coffee. Then the actual character creation began. With only the slight rules-framework provided by the venerable Red Box, the players thought about the types of characters they wanted to play. With no feats, lists of special abilities, flaws and the like, the rest was left ot roleplaying and imagination. One of the old school players was heard to say that this imaginative process was missing from the recent editions.
I was about to take exception with this, stating that imagination is inherent to any RPG and the players have to exercise their own mental faculties to create truly memorable characters, however, after consideration, I chose to reword it.
The white space on the D&D Red Box character sheets invites the imagination to fill in the gaps. The rules are basic (no pun intended) and anyone can pick them up very easily. After that, conceptualisation needs to enter the equation. I think that the players were about to create far more memorable characters for that one session than I have ever seen them make for other 3.5 games. I have questions about characters that I pose at the beginning of every session to focus the players and get them to think about character and go out of my way to write personalised vignettes into most modules.
However, it was the Basic Rules system that had the players doing most of the work for me.
Something to think about.
I managed to track down this version at a con a few years ago. Badly beaten (it was described as 'well-loved') but with all pages intact. Cthuhulu, Melnibone and the American Indian Mythologies all inside.
Can anyone give me a list of the first ed hardcover books? I'd like to know if my set is actually complete or not.
Many thanks,
Hail the Gaming Geezers!
For 1st edition books, I'd quote the following (hope I didn't miss any):
Dungeon Master's Guide
Player's Handbook
Unearthed Arcana
Monster Manual
Fiend Folio
Monster Manual II
Dungeoneer's Survival Guide
Wilderness Survival Guide
Deities and Demigods/Legends & Lore
Manual of the Planes
Oriental Adventures
Greyhawk Adventures
Dragonlance Adventures
I managed to track down this version at a con a few years ago. Badly beaten (it was described as 'well-loved') but with all pages intact. Cthuhulu, Melnibone and the American Indian Mythologies all inside.
Can anyone give me a list of the first ed hardcover books? I'd like to know if my set is actually complete or not.
Others have already replied with comprehensive lists, to which I can only add "I concur." However:
"My candle burns at both ends,
It will not last the night.
But ah! - my foes, and
Oh!- my friends,
It casts a pretty light."
Roald Dahl
That's actually Edna St. Vincent Millay's First Fig, of course.
--Orrex
Anyways, I have to say that the Artwork in 3E can not compare to the old oil painting style of the TSR line.
That's actually Edna St. Vincent Millay's First Fig, of course.
--Orrex
It certainly is, but I append Dahl's name to the end as he adopted the version presented as his motto. Whilst it doesn't actually acknowledge the authorship, I acknowledge its' use.
One of Dahl's exercises in catharsis that I've been tempted to use, especially when I'm writing reams of module ideas is the weekly bonfire. He would gather all the work with which he was unsatisfied, and burn, ruminating over the flames and seeking further inspiration. I've always considered that act to have some merit.
On an aside, thank you emeriliath for your comprehensive list. It does concur with others I have collected and that means that yes, with my final purchase of The Dungeoneers Survival Guide last year, that my set is complete. Now to do the same with my module collection....
For 1st edition books, I'd quote the following (hope I didn't miss any)
That looks like everything to me.
See the TSR archive's AD&D page for cover shots & back cover text.
It certainly is, but I append Dahl's name to the end as he adopted the version presented as his motto. Whilst it doesn't actually acknowledge the authorship, I acknowledge its' use.
Well, there you go getting all reasonable on me. You make it tough to be an instigator! ;)
One of Dahl's exercises in catharsis that I've been tempted to use, especially when I'm writing reams of module ideas is the weekly bonfire. He would gather all the work with which he was unsatisfied, and burn, ruminating over the flames and seeking further inspiration. I've always considered that act to have some merit.
That's pretty neat; perhaps I'll give it a shot.
--Orrex
Unfortunately, I haven't had a game of AD&D in quite a few years. I started out playing this amazing game at the age of 15 y/o. I played up until our little group disbanded due to marriages and birth of children. I got around 10 great years in before all this started happening. I hope to pass on to my son, which is 8 y/o now, all the great fun to be had playing AD&D. I hope to once again hope to bring out my dice, minitures, books, maps, and record sheets to play the epic sagas of adventure, danger, and treasure seeking.
Sounds like a great plan. I too, had to go into a long hiatus from gaming (ok, I attended a 'con here and there, and still run a game online, via email). Since 1992, the number of face to face games I have played can easily be counted on one hand, with a thumb and a finger or two remaining.
Real life can be SUCH a downer when a gamer becomes an adult.
Like you, I kept the majority of my gaming goods (sadly, I sold ALL my classic D&D stuff, including gazetteers, and am now trying to get most of that stuff back via eBay - which is making it all WAY more expensive than I originally played), and have already passed the majority of the classic D&D stuff (I kept the Rule Cyclopedia for my own use, but that too will be handed down) to my kids.
My oldest has already gotten one of the sets of the AD&D 2nd Edition PHB & DMG that I had from my gaming days (I was such an uber gaming geek, that I had one set of the core books for home usage, and one set for travelling).
Gaming with my kids is a BLAST. They recently discovered the MP3 by the Dead Alewives (you know, the one "I'm casting Magic Missile at the darkness!" and "Do you have any Mountain Dew?"), and I've found that these gaming sessions (DMed by yours truly) often bear a strange resemblance to the Dead Alewives comedy clip.
I'm at the point now, where I want to let my kids do their own gaming, and try to get an adult game going - mainly because with a more mature crowd, subtlety can be used more effectively, and the gamers are (usually) more adept.
However, I love my "old school" gaming, and wouldn't want to give it up for all the tea in Kara-Tur.
Real life can be SUCH a downer when a gamer becomes an adult.
So true. Once upon a time I had nothing but time to game with and now finding time to game is a chore and a hassle. And quite frankly I'd rather spend time with my wife and kids. Priorities and responsibilities have overtaken my adult life. I had a blast back in the day and someday I'll pull out my Moldvay Basic Set of D&D and introduce my two daughters to a whole new world of fun.
3.x should not be called D&D. Very little in those books resembles D&D. I think it should be renamed d20 fantasy, and WotC should give us back Original through 2nd edition, and let us choose instead of telling us we don't know what we want, and spoon-feeding us this congealed crap that is (mockingly) called 3.x. The fourteen-year-olds and losers on power trips already had Magic: the Gathering. Why should we, the pre-established gaming community, have to suffer because they want it in book format?
Huzzah for the older (and old-school) gamers speaking up. I cut my teeth on BECM, and grew up on AD&D (both editions), and I think what has been done to OUR game is nothing short of a travesty. Thankfully, we have RPG Now. Otherwise, we wouldn't have anything left but bitter memories.
But as you read through the thoughtful and supportive responses from the other "Gaming Geezers" on this thread, what comes to the fore time and again is...we loved AD&D and many of us loved the Basic versions. Moreover,there are people doing more about it. There is a petition on here to bring back AD&D because many of us still play and our books and support supplies are dying by attrition. If WotC wants to continue with the d20 stuff that's fine but we feel they are missing a potentially large segment of the gaming community. I currently DM 2nd Ed regularly and there is an affiliated thread on here to team write a 2nd Ed adventure (OOP Cooperative Module).
Keep looking in your area, though. My experience has been that once you DM 3rd Ed players in a 2nd Ed adventure, they may not give up 3rd Ed, but most want to continue on in AD&D. The quality of the product always tells in the end.
Good luck.I was barraged by 3.? people time after time for daring to suggest that 3.? wasn't D&D.
Meh. It's not. It's a game, loosely based on D&D, by people who bought the legal right to call it D&D. That's all. So it's legally D&D, but that's about it. But screw them. By dissenting, they're just proving they're not worth heeding.