Bonus cantrips - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Bonus cantrips

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
green_eyes
Mar 18, 2008 9:45:41 It has always bugged me, that you never get any bonus cantrip slots from big stats.

Not that they are really usefull, but having more lvl 3 spells per day than lvl 0...

What would be your solution to that?

I am thinking two possibilities:
1. Bonus cantrip slots following the 1lvl slots progression.
2. Making cantrips spell like abilities at some point.
#2
blueflames
Mar 18, 2008 10:01:56 The way I dole out bonus cantrips is to determine how many level one bonus spells the character would receive, if his/her casting stat was two points higher. For example, a wizard with eighteen INT gets two bonus cantrips.
#3
naderion
Mar 18, 2008 10:32:58 Twice as many bonus spells for level 0 as you get for level 1. Since they have practically no effect on combat later in the game, you should be able to use them as you like and without using 1st level slots.
#4
searcheromega_dup
Mar 18, 2008 11:04:22 Yeah, I prettymuch extend the bonus spell progression one slot to the left too. Technically, this means you get a bonus cantrip by just being able to cast them, but that's fine with me. Nobody's going to break the game because they can cast Presti six times instead of four.
#5
green_eyes
Mar 18, 2008 13:52:07 Thanks.
#6
rosisha
Mar 24, 2008 9:08:14 In an old Dragon Magazine, from AD&D2Ed, they had the cantrip skill, that allowed a person to create cantrips as the 1st level spell with just a skill check. I converted that for my own campaign world. Here is what I had:

RITUALS (Int; Trained Only)
You can use this skill to manipulate the magical energies around you, causing low level magical affects.

Check: This skill allows you to cast the 0 level spell Prestidigitation by focusing your mind. It represents low level magical training or talent that the character can use to manipulate energy. This spell, as a Ritual, must still follow all the restrictions of the spell itself. Finally this basic spell can be used as a sorcerer/wizard spell, a clerics spell, a druids spell, or a bards spell.

Retry: Yes. After a failure the player may retry to cast the spell or another spell with a +1 to the DC.

Special: Repeatably casting spells can be tiring. The player gains a number of attempts equal to his or her Int, Wis, or Cha score bonus. After that, a +2 DC modifier is placed on future attempts until a full night of rest occurs. A failure will add an additional +2 DC modifier. Other restrictions exist depending on the type of Rituals that the player is trained in, see below.

Although this only allows one spell, Prestidigitation, the player can manipulate it in different ways depending on their magical training, and the spell itself will reflect that.

Cantrips: The player uses their intelligence score and must maintain a notebook. Each day they wish to use the skill they must study their notes for at least half an hour. This reminds them of the extremely complicated gestures, concepts, and math that they must know in order to use the Ritual Skill. Failure to do so places a +10 on any DC check. Cantrips are subject to spell failure, and wearing armor can increase the DC (10% spell failure is equal to a +1 DC penalty; 20% is equal to +2 and so on).

Orisons: The player uses their wisdom score and must maintain a prayer book. Further, the player is considered to be under the same restrictions as a priest in terms of following their deity, and must follow any restrictions of the priesthood that the DM feels are appropriate. Failure to do so will result in the player's prayers remaining unanswered. Players must specify if they are using orisons of druidic or priestly nature, and then follow that path. Players must have a holy symbol or druidic symbol in order to use their orisons. Orisons are subject to spell failure as above.

Bardic Cantrips: As with the standard cantrips above, but instead of a notebook, the player must maintain a performance book, and must have ranks in perform. They use their Charisma score instead of their intelligence score for determining uses per day. All other rules stay the same.

Synergy: If you have five or more ranks in the appropriate skill, you gain a +2 synergy bonus to your Ritual skill check:

Cantrip: Knowledge (Arcane)
Orison: Knowledge (Religion)
Bardic Cantrip: Perform (Any)

NOTE: Gnomes can always be trained in this skill, and their three magical spells are replaced by Skill Focus (Rituals) and Expanded Rituals. Gnomes can take any ritual, not just bardic ones. Forest Gnomes usually take Orisons, Rock Gnomes take Cantrips.

DC Checks:
On average the DC is 10. Casting in combat raises the DC to 15. Attempting longer and complicated castings over time can also raise the DC. It is extremely hard to get the DC of this skill over 25, and DMs should not worry about it, as it has a built in limitation. Most players will not invest a lot of skill points in this skill.

I find that they are not over powered, and it can allow a player to have a bit more flexibility with their class. If a DM wishes they can also allow the following two feats:

EMPOWERED RITUAL [General]
Your rituals are more powerful, crackling with energy.

Prerequisites: 5+ ranks in Ritual
Benefit: Your cantrips or orisons can cause one point of damage or heal one point of damage respectfully. If you use cantrips you must choose an energy type. If you use orisons, there are other benefits. A druidic orison ritual can create healing foods that will heal one point and last for 24 hours. A clerical orison ritual can heal or harm per alignment of the caster. A neutral clerical ritual orison user may choose to heal or harm. This increases the DC of the ritual by +5.
Special: This can be taken multiple times, but must be taken for a different ritual skill. Since their are only three, this limits the number of times the feat can be taken.

EXPANDED RITUALS [General]
You have returned to your teachers for more training, and have gained a deeper understanding of magic.

Prerequisite: 5+ ranks in Ritual
Benefit: You gain 2 new rituals, which can be taken from the 0 level spell list of the type of caster you emulate. The DC of these rituals is always higher then the standard spell. +5 is the average, but a combat spell like Acid Splash is +10.
Special: This feat can be taken any number of times, but must add two different rituals each time.

I find expanded rituals can be a great reward. I had a fighter character with the ritual skill, he was a holy warrior with a zeal for nature. He fought hard against some trolls, and as a reward he didn't get a new magic sword, but I did let him take two spells from the 0 level Druid spell list. These were powers he was invested with by a druid circle for his good deeds. Free feat! It can be a fun way to expand a mages abilities, or what not as well, so hopefully it will help you out.

Rosisha
#7
prime32
Mar 25, 2008 15:17:14 Is there anything wrong with letting PCs use cantrips at will at high levels?
#8
leress
Mar 26, 2008 14:23:54
Is there anything wrong with letting PCs use cantrips at will at high levels?

Pretty much after level 7, I would say no.
#9
brockc
Mar 26, 2008 18:14:02 Cure Minor Wounds. If you can do it at will, then you are never short on healing.
#10
green_eyes
Mar 27, 2008 6:35:52 Rosisha, this is great help, thanks a lot.
#11
skrap-san
Mar 27, 2008 7:42:22 One could do it the Pathfinder way, those who prepare spells prepare those they want to cast for that day, these ones are at will as many times per day as one want. Cure minor wounds have turned into stabilise so you cant cure up after a battle.
#12
Neutronium_Dragon
Mar 28, 2008 23:33:44 > Technically, this means you get a bonus cantrip by just being able to cast
> them, but that's fine with me.

One of the designers (SKR, I believe) said that this was essentially factored in to the base cantrips/day already.
#13
leress
Mar 30, 2008 20:13:48
Cure Minor Wounds. If you can do it at will, then you are never short on healing.

Even that isn't game breaking in the least.
#14
james_gaines_dup
Mar 30, 2008 20:27:33 A new person came to my session today and said: "Oh, you don't play with free cantrips?,"

Well, I decided to try it.

/facepalm.

The cleric sat there. Poke, poke, poke, poke, healed everyone to, poke, full health after, poke, every single, poke, encounter.

The torches never left the backpacks. They cast light on everything.

Spellcraft for scrolls just went out the window. Read Magic everything.

Unlimited cantrips are nice until you realize they take the value of certain things down to nil.
#15
leress
Mar 31, 2008 2:53:05
A new person came to my session today and said: "Oh, you don't play with free cantrips?,"

Well, I decided to try it.

/facepalm.

The cleric sat there. Poke, poke, poke, poke, healed everyone to, poke, full health after, poke, every single, poke, encounter.

The torches never left the backpacks. They cast light on everything.

Spellcraft for scrolls just went out the window. Read Magic everything.

Unlimited cantrips are nice until you realize they take the value of certain things down to nil.

Umm... the cleric will still run out of the other spells, everburning torches do the same thing, read magic is a personal spell and you still need spell craft for some things. The value the things it brings down are mostly trivial things anyway.
#16
trapspringer
Apr 01, 2008 17:16:49 Shift your paradigm, dude.

At high levels that's all trivial, but at low levels it significantly impacts play.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 green_eyes Mar 18, 2008 9:45:41	It has always bugged me, that you never get any bonus cantrip slots from big stats. Not that they are really usefull, but having more lvl 3 spells per day than lvl 0... What would be your solution to that? I am thinking two possibilities: 1. Bonus cantrip slots following the 1lvl slots progression. 2. Making cantrips spell like abilities at some point.
#2 blueflames Mar 18, 2008 10:01:56	The way I dole out bonus cantrips is to determine how many level one bonus spells the character would receive, if his/her casting stat was two points higher. For example, a wizard with eighteen INT gets two bonus cantrips.
#3 naderion Mar 18, 2008 10:32:58	Twice as many bonus spells for level 0 as you get for level 1. Since they have practically no effect on combat later in the game, you should be able to use them as you like and without using 1st level slots.
#4 searcheromega_dup Mar 18, 2008 11:04:22	Yeah, I prettymuch extend the bonus spell progression one slot to the left too. Technically, this means you get a bonus cantrip by just being able to cast them, but that's fine with me. Nobody's going to break the game because they can cast Presti six times instead of four.
#5 green_eyes Mar 18, 2008 13:52:07	Thanks.
#6 rosisha Mar 24, 2008 9:08:14	In an old Dragon Magazine, from AD&D2Ed, they had the cantrip skill, that allowed a person to create cantrips as the 1st level spell with just a skill check. I converted that for my own campaign world. Here is what I had: RITUALS (Int; Trained Only) You can use this skill to manipulate the magical energies around you, causing low level magical affects. Check: This skill allows you to cast the 0 level spell Prestidigitation by focusing your mind. It represents low level magical training or talent that the character can use to manipulate energy. This spell, as a Ritual, must still follow all the restrictions of the spell itself. Finally this basic spell can be used as a sorcerer/wizard spell, a clerics spell, a druids spell, or a bards spell. Retry: Yes. After a failure the player may retry to cast the spell or another spell with a +1 to the DC. Special: Repeatably casting spells can be tiring. The player gains a number of attempts equal to his or her Int, Wis, or Cha score bonus. After that, a +2 DC modifier is placed on future attempts until a full night of rest occurs. A failure will add an additional +2 DC modifier. Other restrictions exist depending on the type of Rituals that the player is trained in, see below. Although this only allows one spell, Prestidigitation, the player can manipulate it in different ways depending on their magical training, and the spell itself will reflect that. Cantrips: The player uses their intelligence score and must maintain a notebook. Each day they wish to use the skill they must study their notes for at least half an hour. This reminds them of the extremely complicated gestures, concepts, and math that they must know in order to use the Ritual Skill. Failure to do so places a +10 on any DC check. Cantrips are subject to spell failure, and wearing armor can increase the DC (10% spell failure is equal to a +1 DC penalty; 20% is equal to +2 and so on). Orisons: The player uses their wisdom score and must maintain a prayer book. Further, the player is considered to be under the same restrictions as a priest in terms of following their deity, and must follow any restrictions of the priesthood that the DM feels are appropriate. Failure to do so will result in the player's prayers remaining unanswered. Players must specify if they are using orisons of druidic or priestly nature, and then follow that path. Players must have a holy symbol or druidic symbol in order to use their orisons. Orisons are subject to spell failure as above. Bardic Cantrips: As with the standard cantrips above, but instead of a notebook, the player must maintain a performance book, and must have ranks in perform. They use their Charisma score instead of their intelligence score for determining uses per day. All other rules stay the same. Synergy: If you have five or more ranks in the appropriate skill, you gain a +2 synergy bonus to your Ritual skill check: Cantrip: Knowledge (Arcane) Orison: Knowledge (Religion) Bardic Cantrip: Perform (Any) NOTE: Gnomes can always be trained in this skill, and their three magical spells are replaced by Skill Focus (Rituals) and Expanded Rituals. Gnomes can take any ritual, not just bardic ones. Forest Gnomes usually take Orisons, Rock Gnomes take Cantrips. DC Checks: On average the DC is 10. Casting in combat raises the DC to 15. Attempting longer and complicated castings over time can also raise the DC. It is extremely hard to get the DC of this skill over 25, and DMs should not worry about it, as it has a built in limitation. Most players will not invest a lot of skill points in this skill. I find that they are not over powered, and it can allow a player to have a bit more flexibility with their class. If a DM wishes they can also allow the following two feats: EMPOWERED RITUAL [General] Your rituals are more powerful, crackling with energy. Prerequisites: 5+ ranks in Ritual Benefit: Your cantrips or orisons can cause one point of damage or heal one point of damage respectfully. If you use cantrips you must choose an energy type. If you use orisons, there are other benefits. A druidic orison ritual can create healing foods that will heal one point and last for 24 hours. A clerical orison ritual can heal or harm per alignment of the caster. A neutral clerical ritual orison user may choose to heal or harm. This increases the DC of the ritual by +5. Special: This can be taken multiple times, but must be taken for a different ritual skill. Since their are only three, this limits the number of times the feat can be taken. EXPANDED RITUALS [General] You have returned to your teachers for more training, and have gained a deeper understanding of magic. Prerequisite: 5+ ranks in Ritual Benefit: You gain 2 new rituals, which can be taken from the 0 level spell list of the type of caster you emulate. The DC of these rituals is always higher then the standard spell. +5 is the average, but a combat spell like Acid Splash is +10. Special: This feat can be taken any number of times, but must add two different rituals each time. I find expanded rituals can be a great reward. I had a fighter character with the ritual skill, he was a holy warrior with a zeal for nature. He fought hard against some trolls, and as a reward he didn't get a new magic sword, but I did let him take two spells from the 0 level Druid spell list. These were powers he was invested with by a druid circle for his good deeds. Free feat! It can be a fun way to expand a mages abilities, or what not as well, so hopefully it will help you out. Rosisha
#7 prime32 Mar 25, 2008 15:17:14	Is there anything wrong with letting PCs use cantrips at will at high levels?
#8 leress Mar 26, 2008 14:23:54	Is there anything wrong with letting PCs use cantrips at will at high levels? Pretty much after level 7, I would say no.
#9 brockc Mar 26, 2008 18:14:02	Cure Minor Wounds. If you can do it at will, then you are never short on healing.
#10 green_eyes Mar 27, 2008 6:35:52	Rosisha, this is great help, thanks a lot.
#11 skrap-san Mar 27, 2008 7:42:22	One could do it the Pathfinder way, those who prepare spells prepare those they want to cast for that day, these ones are at will as many times per day as one want. Cure minor wounds have turned into stabilise so you cant cure up after a battle.
#12 Neutronium_Dragon Mar 28, 2008 23:33:44	> Technically, this means you get a bonus cantrip by just being able to cast > them, but that's fine with me. One of the designers (SKR, I believe) said that this was essentially factored in to the base cantrips/day already.
#13 leress Mar 30, 2008 20:13:48	Cure Minor Wounds. If you can do it at will, then you are never short on healing. Even that isn't game breaking in the least.
#14 james_gaines_dup Mar 30, 2008 20:27:33	A new person came to my session today and said: "Oh, you don't play with free cantrips?," Well, I decided to try it. /facepalm. The cleric sat there. Poke, poke, poke, poke, healed everyone to, poke, full health after, poke, every single, poke, encounter. The torches never left the backpacks. They cast light on everything. Spellcraft for scrolls just went out the window. Read Magic everything. Unlimited cantrips are nice until you realize they take the value of certain things down to nil.
#15 leress Mar 31, 2008 2:53:05	A new person came to my session today and said: "Oh, you don't play with free cantrips?," Well, I decided to try it. /facepalm. The cleric sat there. Poke, poke, poke, poke, healed everyone to, poke, full health after, poke, every single, poke, encounter. The torches never left the backpacks. They cast light on everything. Spellcraft for scrolls just went out the window. Read Magic everything. Unlimited cantrips are nice until you realize they take the value of certain things down to nil. Umm... the cleric will still run out of the other spells, everburning torches do the same thing, read magic is a personal spell and you still need spell craft for some things. The value the things it brings down are mostly trivial things anyway.
#16 trapspringer Apr 01, 2008 17:16:49	Shift your paradigm, dude. At high levels that's all trivial, but at low levels it significantly impacts play.