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| #1Kingside_BishopOct 16, 2004 5:00:16 | I've been really pleased with the sudden proliferation of card casting stuff on the boards, just recently. So, I've decided to try to design a whole new magic system that's supplemental (co-exists with) the existing system -- cardcasting! It's pretty low-powered, but with a little investment of training and gold, any character can become a half-caster. Which has got to screw up game balance, right? Right! And that's what we're here to do, after all, so here goes... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cardcasting A Supplemental Magic System The Basics: Characters purchase (or create) magic cards, items with extraplanar essence stored inside of them. Depending on the nature of the essence, the character must succeed at various skill checks. There are eight essences, and eight different skills. Essences can be mixed to create original cards, or be kept pure for very direct use. No matter what, however, opposing essences cannot be mixed -- fire and water, for example. The Eight Essences: There are eight essences that a card can be imbued with: Positive, Negative, Order, Chaos, Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. Each essence has a different effect when put into a card -- some deal damage, some create magic, others affect the mind. When combined, truly unique and (perhaps) powerful combinations can be created. Whenever a spell is listed, assume the minimum caster level for that spell. Using an Essence Card: In order for Essence Cards to work at all, they must be drawn randomly from a deck that contained at least 10 charged cards at the beginning of the day. This deck cannot have any duplicate cards -- each card must be unique. They may have very similar abilities, but they must not have the same abilities. To use an Essence Card, an individual must boldly hold it forth, and clearly pronounce the command word. This is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. At this time, the character must make a Cardcasting check in whatever Essence is being used. There are eight separate Cardcasting skills -- one for each Essence. If the character fails the check, he has wasted his action. If he succeeds by meeting or exceeding the DC, that Essence's abilities take effect. The DC for the check is 9 + (2 per level of the Essence ability being used). A card with a single Essence requires a single check. A card with multiple Essences requires a check for each Essence, usually with different DCs. [INDENT]For example, a Positive 4, Order 3, Fire 2 Essence Card would require a Cardcasting (positive) check of 17+ to manifest the Positive Essence, a Cardcasting (order) check of 15+ to manifest the Order Essence, and a Cardcasting (fire) check of 13+ to manifest the Fire Essence. Failure on any of these checks results in the failure of that Essence to manifest, but does not affect the outcome of the other checks.[/INDENT]Essence Cards are command word activated magic items. Each card has 1 charge per day. A character cannot activate separate abilities at different times during the day -- all abilities of an essence card are activated at the same time. Cardcasting Skills and Feats: Each essence has a corresponding Cardcasting skill subset, much like the skills Knowledge and Perform. These skills should be class skills to all caster classes, and the monk. [INDENT]Cardcasting (positive) Cardcasting (negative) Cardcasting (order) Cardcasting (chaos) Cardcasting (earth) Cardcasting (air) Cardcasting (fire) Cardcasting (water)[/INDENT] [INDENT]Synergy: 5 ranks in Knowledge (the planes) grants a +2 synergy bonus to any Cardcasting check. Negative Synergy: Divide a character's ranks in each essence by two, and apply that as a negative modifier to that Essence's opposing Essence skill check.[/INDENT] New Feat: Multi-Elemental Cardcaster: A character with this feat no longer has to apply half of his ranks in one of his Essence skills as a penalty to that Essence's opposing Essence, but only for the elemental Essences (earth, air, fire, and water). [INDENT]Requirements: 5 ranks in any opposing moral Cardcasting Essence skills.[/INDENT] New Feat: Multi-Moral Cardcaster: A character with this feat no longer has to apply half of his ranks in one of his Essence skills as a penalty to that Essence's opposing Essence, but only for the moral Essences (positive, negative, order, and chaos).[INDENT]Requirements: 5 ranks in any opposing elemental Cardcasting Essence skills.[/INDENT] New Feat: Craft Card: Allows a character to craft Essence Cards using the process described below.[INDENT]Requirements: Caster level 1.[/INDENT] Creating and Purchasing Essence Cards: To craft a card with a certain Essence ability, the creator must have a caster level equal sufficient to cast a spell of that level, and at least 3 ranks +1 rank/level of the ability. So, to include a 3rd level ability, the creator would need to be a 5th level caster and possess 6 ranks in the appropriate Cardcrafting skill. The base price of an Essence Card is 325gp x (Card Level, squared). The cost to create an Essence Card is half of this, but 1/25th of this amount must be paid in experience points, as well, and the creator must have the Craft Card feat (which requires a caster level of 1). Card Level is determined by the following formula: Base Ability Level + (Secondary Ability Level / 2) + (Tertiary Ability Levels / 4). The Base Ability Level is the highest level ability in the card. The Secondary Ability Level is the second highest level ability in the card (which is then divided by two). The Tertiary Ability Levels are the sum of all levels of all other abilities (then divided by four). So, an Essence Card with the Positive 4, Order 3, and Fire 2 abilities would have: [Indent]a Base Ability Level of 4, a Secondary Ability Level of 1.5, a Tertiary Ability Level of .5, thus, a Card Level of 6 (4+1.5+.5), and a base price of 11,700gp (325 x 36 [6 squared])[/INDENT] Note that card level is squared (instead of including caster level in the formula) because the cards do not have scaling powers, like most spells. Instead, powers are finite. This results in a much lower cost, but the abilities are much weaker, as well. A common 9th level ability, for example, emulates a 6th level spell with a caster level of 11. Integrating Essence Cards into a Campaign: Because it's an addition to the existing rules, not an overhaul, it's very easy to add Cardcasting to a campaign. Essence Cards would be particularly effective in a high-magic or planar campaign, where there might be local, national, and even cosmic card tournaments. This mini-system is meant to be an addition to the game, and does present a few serious balance issues. Primarily, there's the fact that these cards give non-casters magical abilities that without the system are the province of the casters alone. The cost for the cards help to balance this out, but I am not entirely sure my numbers are balanced, which would place an inherent flaw in the balance scheme. I intend to integrate these into my game, where I'll playtest them. There's no better way to tell if something is unbalanced than to allow your players to use it on you. If anyone else decides to try it out, too, please keep me posted on how it goes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for your time, reading this. Any comments are welcome, and appreciated. ![]() Kingside_Bishop |
| #2zombiegleemaxOct 25, 2004 18:14:54 | This sounds like it could make a really good prestige class. I like how you incorporated planes to sort the cards, but what about making slightly different requirements for each group of cards instead. A caster is only allowed to use cards of the type he chooses at 1st lv. He can only choose one and can never change. All might need: Knowledge (planes) 8 ranks Then maybe for the other planes something around this: Positive: Ability to cast spontaneous cure spells Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks non-evil aligned Negative: Ability to spontaneously cast inflict spells Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks non-good aligned Order: Lawful aligned Cast Divine Spells of 3rd lv or higher Feat: Leadership |
| #3zombiegleemaxOct 27, 2004 14:58:02 | I'd suggest this might make a series of one use per day wonderous items. - Say you need to accumulate X number of them to be able to activate any effects (10 seems like a good number). - As wonderous items, I'd eliminate the skill rolls, but add that cards of opposite moral/elemental forces couldn't be included in the same deck without the feats you mention. - Keep the card creation rules pretty much the same, except I'd add a Craft Greater Card that would allow a card creator to make cards that generate multiple simultaneous effects (lightning bolt and a gust of wind, for instance). - I'd add Metal and Plant as opposing Elements too. Metal for generating effects like Blade Barrier and Plant for spells like Entangle. Of course, I like the idea of this as a prestige class too. Not sure I'd allow it as a core class unless I was playing an anime-style game though. -C |
| #4Kingside_BishopOct 28, 2004 17:36:54 | When I first posted this system, I was a little too excited. I later posted it to the Magic and Spells board, got some feedback, and added a few things. This post is to fill in any holes I have in the above post concerning those topics. Apologies to the Wiz_O's and Scribes for the trouble. The completed and compiled version can be found on the Magic and Spells board, or you can just click on this link. This post has better formatting, too. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Eight Essences: In this area, I added Summon Essences to each Essence, which are variants to the standard abilities. You can either choose a Summon Essence, or an Essence Ability (or both, but they're counted as two separate Essences). I also added Essence Unique Features, which manifest whenever the Essence is contained in a mixed Essence Card. I also changed some of the Air Essence Abilities. *For all summons, the duration of the summon is equal to the Essence Level. **For all Essence Unique Features, whenever "level" is cited, use the Card Level (see "Creating and Purchasing Essence Cards" for how to determine card level) or the individual Essence Level of the Essence generating the Unique Feature, whichever is lower. Positive Essence Summons* [INDENT]1st Level: Celestial Dog 2nd Level: Nixie 3rd Level: Celestial Wolf 4th Level: Celestial Ape 5th Level: Unicorn 6th Level: Celestial Lion 7th Level: Hound Archon 8th Level: Lammasu 9th Level: Celestial Dire Lion Positive Essence Unique Features** [INDENT]White Burst: When mixed with another card, Positive Essences come into conflict with those Essences and create an effect called a "White Burst." Wherever the Positive Essence ability/summons is targeted, each creature within 10ft of that point is cured 1d4hp/level. If this would bring a creature to above his maximum hit points, he must make a Fortitude Save (DC 12 + remaining healing) or fall unconscious for 1 round/level. Celestial Boost: If a Positive Essence is contained in the same card as a summon ability of a different Essence, that summon gains the Celestial template.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Negative Essence Summons* [INDENT]1st Level: Medium Size Zombie 2nd Level: Allip 3rd Level: Ghoul 4th Level: Huge Skeleton 5th Level: Mummy 6th Level: Ghast 7th Level: Vampire Spawn 8th Level: Wraith 9th Level: Spectre Negative Essence Unique Features** [INDENT]Black Burst: When mixed with another card, Negative Essences come into conflict with those Essences and create an effect called a "Black Burst." Wherever the Negative Essence ability/summons is targeted, each creature within 10ft of that point is dealt 1d4hp damage/level. If this would bring a creature to negative hit points, he must make a Fortitude Save (DC 12 + remaining healing) or be treated as if undead for the purpose of cure/inflict spells. Undead Boost: If a Negative Essence is contained in the same card as a summon ability of a different Essence, that summon gains the Undead type.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Order Essence Summons* [INDENT]1st Level: Formian Worker 2nd Level: Giant Bee 3rd Level: Axiomatic Heavy Warhorse 4th Level: Giant Ant Soldier 5th Level: Axiomatic Bison 6th Level: Formian Warrior 7th Level: Axiomatic Dire Ape 8th Level: Axiomatic Rhinoceros 9th Level: Axiomatic Basilisk Order Essence Unique Features** [INDENT]Control: When mixed with another card, Order Essences come into conflict with those Essences and create an effect called "Ensure." On any dice roll involved with any Essence manifested with this card, that dice roll is treated as if it rolled the average, instead of actually rolling the dice Axiomatic Boost: If an Order Essence is contained in the same card as a summon ability of a different Essence, that summon gains the Axiomatic template.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Chaos Essence Summons* [INDENT]1st Level: Anarchic Baboon 2nd Level: Orc 3rd Level: Anarchic Light Warhorse 4th Level: Anarchic Wolverine 5th Level: Anarchic Blink Dog 6th Level: Anarchic Dire Wolf 7th Level: Minotaur 8th Level: Anarchic Dire Boar 9th Level: Anarchic Phase Spider Chaos Essence Unique Features** [INDENT]Randomize: When mixed with another card, Chaos Essences come into conflict with those Essences and create an effect called "Randomize." Roll 1d4/three levels. Any targeted Essence that this card manifests affects this many additional creatures within a 20ft radius, but these new targets are determined randomly. For levels below three, add 1 new target (also determined randomly). Creatures can be targeted multiple times. Anarchic Boost: If a Chaos Essence is contained in the same card as a summon ability of a different Essence, that summon gains the Anarchic template.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Earth Essence Summons* [INDENT]1st Level: Earth Elemental Badger 2nd Level: Earth Elemental Large Monstrous Centipede 3rd Level: Small Earth Elemental 4th Level: Earth Elemental Black Bear 5th Level: Earth Elemental Dire Badger 6th Level: Medium Earth Elemental 7th Level: Large Earth Elemental 8th Level: Earth Elemental Brown Bear 9th Level: Huge Earth Elemental Earth Essence Unique Features** [INDENT]Quake: When mixed with another card, Earth Essences come into conflict with those Essences and create an effect called "Quake." All creatures within 10 ft must make a Fortitude Save with a DC of 12 + 1 /level or fall prone. Earthly Boost: If an Earth Essence is contained in the same card as a summon ability of a different Essence, that summon gains the Earth Element template.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Air Essence Abilities [INDENT]5th Level: Lightning Bolt 7th Level: Fly 9th Level: Chain Lightning Air Essence Summons* [INDENT]1st Level: Air Elemental Eagle 2nd Level: Air Elemental Light Warhorse 3rd Level: Small Air Elemental 4th Level: Air Elemental Hippogriff 5th Level: Air Mephit 6th Level: Medium Air Elemental 7th Level: Large Air Elemental 8th Level: Adult Arrowhawk 9th Level: Huge Air Elemental Air Essence Unique Features** Blast: When mixed with another card, Air Essences come into conflict with those Essences and create an effect called "Blast." All creatures within 10 ft must make a Fortitude Save with a DC of 12 + 1 /level or be blown back 1d4 x 10ft. Windblown Boost: If an Air Essence is contained in the same card as a summon ability of a different Essence, that summon gains the Air Element template.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Fire Essence Summons* [INDENT]1st Level: Flameborn Hobgoblin 2nd Level: Flameborn Light Warhorse 3rd Level: Small Fire Elemental 4th Level: Fire Elemental Cheetah 5th Level: Flamebrother Salamander 6th Level: Medium Fire Elemental 7th Level: Large Fire Elemental 8th Level: Fire Elemental Tiger 9th Level: 5 Headed Pyrohydra Fire Essence Unique Features** [INDENT]Scorch: When mixed with another card, Fire Essences come into conflict with those Essences and create an effect called "Scorch." All creatures within 10 ft must make a Fortitude Save with a DC of 12 + 1 /level or take -2 on all attacks and -15ft to movement (minimum 5ft movement remaining). Flaming Boost: If a Fire Essence is contained in the same card as a summon ability of a different Essence, that summon gains the Fire Element template.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Water Essence Summons* [INDENT]1st Level: Merfolk 2nd Level: Water Elemental Medium Monstrous Spider 3rd Level: Small Water Elemental 4th Level: Merrow (Ogre) 5th Level: Water Mephit 6th Level: Medium Water Elemental 7th Level: Large Water Elemental 8th Level: Water Elemental Tiger 9th Level: Huge Water Elemental Water Essence Unique Features** [INDENT]Drown: When mixed with another card, Water Essences come into conflict with those Essences and create an effect called "Drown." All creatures within 10 ft begin to suffocate. They continue to suffocate for 1 round per level. Watery Boost: If a Water Essence is contained in the same card as a summon ability of a different Essence, that summon gains the Water Element template.[/INDENT][/INDENT][u]Using an Essence Card[/u]: Here, I listed the Essence skills' key abilities, as well as another new feat. Cardcasting Skills: [INDENT]Cardcasting (positive) (wis) Cardcasting (negative) (wis) Cardcasting (order) (int) Cardcasting (chaos) (cha) Cardcasting (earth) (wis) Cardcasting (air) (int) Cardcasting (fire) (cha) Cardcasting (water) (wis) New Feat: Combine Cards: When holding two or more cards in your hand, you may spend a full round action to combine two of them into a single card and gain all effects of that card as if it were a single card. This may be done as part of drawing a hand of cards. You may do this once per day, and one additional time per point of Intelligence bonus. This may be done as part of drawing a hand of cards. At the end of the day, the card reverts back to its two original donor cards.[INDENT]Requirements: 5 ranks in any Cardcasting skill.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Bibliography
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks again. Kingside Bishop |
| #5zombiegleemaxOct 30, 2004 1:54:55 | I meant 1st level of the prestige class not as in 1st chracter level. |
| #6zombiegleemaxOct 30, 2004 11:54:59 | Seems a lot like the Deck of Many things but is way too Yu-Gi-Oh and Card Captors like. |
| #7Kingside_BishopNov 02, 2004 13:39:23 | Thanks for all the input. A quick summary: [INDENT]I really regret posting this before it was ready (I've learned my lesson, Wiz_O's), and the other thread on this compiles everything and is easier to understand. Here it is, it's much better and easier to read. Originally, I designed this as a skill/item system, with no core class, and added the class after a suggestion. I think you're all right in that it would make a better PrC.[/INDENT]KP91: I don't really like the idea of limiting casters to one type of card. I could see limiting the use of opposing cards, but even that's a little iffy. One of my original purposes in creating this system was to make it so anyone could use it, and anyone could use any card. If a good person doesn't have a problem with using a negative card, he should be able to. Same for chaotic people and order cards. They'll be more unlikely to use them, but I think the option should still be available. Ash Kamini: [INDENT]- Say you need to accumulate X number of them to be able to activate any effects (10 seems like a good number). [INDENT]Already done, it's in the text of the post under "Using an Essence Card." Funny that we thought of the exact same thing.[/INDENT]- As wonderous items, I'd eliminate the skill rolls, but add that cards of opposite moral/elemental forces couldn't be included in the same deck without the feats you mention. [INDENT]I like the different skill checks because they represent training in how to use a card. While anyone can learn to use them, they have to actually learn how. Given the skill system, the negative synergy penalty for opposing cards is enough of a deterrent for using opposing cards.[/INDENT]- Keep the card creation rules pretty much the same, except I'd add a Craft Greater Card that would allow a card creator to make cards that generate multiple simultaneous effects (lightning bolt and a gust of wind, for instance).[INDENT]Also already in there -- creators can already create cards that cast simultaneous effects (Positive 4 / Order 3 / Fire 2, for example, is given in the text)[/INDENT]- I'd add Metal and Plant as opposing Elements too. Metal for generating effects like Blade Barrier and Plant for spells like Entangle.[INDENT]I like that idea, alot. I think I'll do that, thanks![/INDENT]- Of course, I like the idea of this as a prestige class too. Not sure I'd allow it as a core class unless I was playing an anime-style game though.[INDENT]I think you're right on this one, as is everyone else. I designed the core class at request, and just threw it in there. A PrC would be better.[/INDENT][/INDENT]Warlord: You know, I'm not a huge fan of Yugi-Oh. I think it's a poor imitation of Magic: the Gathering, which is a game I love. I based this off of Magic, and that's why it seems similar to Yugi-Oh, because Yugi-Oh is a cheap imitation of Magic. |