Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 20, 2005 13:12:09	In 3e, there were no synergy bonuses, which often made knowledge skills a second tier choice. The wizard would have ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), the cleric would have ranks in Knowledge (Religion), the Druid would have ranks in Knowledge (Nature), but who took Knowledge (Architecture)? Or Knowledge (Geography)? If you had these, it was for one reason: to enrich your character. And deep down you knew that these ranks were technically a waste, when you could have taken more ranks in Spot, Listen, Diplomacy, Spellcraft, Hide, Move Silently, or some other more “concrete” skill. The only exceptions were people who were playing a Knowledge themed character, fulfilling a prestige class requirement, taking one rank in each Knowledge skill so they counted as trained for each one, or as mentioned before, simply trying to make a more fleshed-out character. That’s why the synergy bonuses for every knowledge skill are so cool in 3.5. Not only do they just make sense, but they encourage people to break out and choose a skill they normally would not have taken. But there’s still a problem. If you’ve ever made a high level character and taken some Knowledge Skills, or better yet inspected the high level Player Characters in your campaign, you may have noticed an annoying trend on the skill sections of these character sheets. Characters will generally reach 5 ranks in a skill, and stop. A 20th level character, when you reach the K’s on the skill section, might even have every knowledge skill, suspiciously stopping at 5. The ranks in knowledge skills are worthwhile until 5 ranks, after which point you run into the same problem you had in 3e. Once you can get the synergy bonus, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) is no longer on the same footing as Spot or Listen, even when you’re venturing into the Underdark. The solution to this, which I’ve been using as a house rule in my campaign for a month or so, is actually so simple that I can’t believe it wasn’t in Unearthed Arcana. (Unless it was, and I need to read it more closely…) All you do is have these synergy bonuses continue to grow. Every 5 ranks, your synergy bonus increases by two. Thus, At 5 ranks, your ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering) give you a +2 synergy bonus on Survival checks when underground. At 10 ranks, your ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering) give you a +4 synergy bonus on Survival checks when underground. At 15 ranks, the bonus is +6, and so on and so forth. Thus, Player Characters don’t just halt their skill progression the instant they hit 5 ranks. Some problems arise from this. The most obvious is that it’s not wise to allow this on every skill that provides a synergy bonus. Bluff, which is a powerful skill all on its own, even if you never use its combat applications, provides four different synergy bonuses. If you let this option apply to Bluff checks, all of a sudden, at 20 ranks a PC is getting +8 to Diplomacy checks, Disguise checks to stay in character, Intimidate checks and Sleight of Hand checks. Who wouldn’t take Bluff in that case? It wouldn’t matter if you have 4 charisma, even spending 20 skill points to buy 10 cross-class ranks equals out to +16 in accumulative synergy bonuses. If you count each +1 synergy bonus as a skill point, it totals out to 20 cross-class skill points equaling 26 normal skill points. Obviously, some skills do not need help. So if you use this rule in your campaigns, I recommend first dictating which skills need the cumulative synergy bonuses to make them more palatable, and which ones don’t. My recommendations is to allow this for: Craft, Decipher Script, Escape Artist, Jump, all Knowledge skills, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device and Use Rope, and customize this to your tastes. You can see their assorted synergy bonuses on page 66 of the Player’s Handbook.
#2 zombiegleemax Jun 27, 2005 15:39:30	I sometimes consider that the application of a "knowledge" skill is a much under-used resource, one that is quite often overlooked by DMs and players alike. The entire point, really, is that they should be wild card skills applicable in all sorts of situations - among other things, I would have thought that a few ranks in Knowledge (masonry) or Knowledge (architecture) would be just the thing for PCs looking to get into a well-constructed stone keep - after an appropriate wisdom check, bolstered by the character's ranks in an applicable knowledge skill, for example, the DM might point out to the characters that taking out the flying buttresses of the keep's northern wall will weaken that wall considerably... On the other hand, what skill would "Knowledge (masonry)" actually be synergetic with? Spot checks to notice hidden doors and traps made from stone, perhaps? How about something different? What other skill could Knowledge (arcana) be synergetic with? The point is that knowledge skills and their application are largely the domain of the DM - a good DM will certainly take into account their player's knowledge skill ranks, and apply them where appropriate, and a good player will undoubtedly have a few such ranks. There's also a reasonable limit to be had - beyond a certain point, taking ranks in knowledge skills that aren't directly tied to your character's class can be counter-productive, taking valuable ranks away from other, more needy skills. Five ranks in Knowledge (geology) might synergise with a rogue's "climb" skill when trying to climb up a rocky cliff face, but at the same time, that's five skill points used for a gain of a +1 bonus that only has a limited application, whereas those same five skill points injected directly into "climb" would yield a +5 bonus that's applicable anytime the character wants to climb anything. The 5 ranks phenomenon you've noted is rooted in a pretty simple equation of effect versus cost - five ranks, especially to somebody like a mid-level monk who already has 15 ranks in Heal, and can therefore only fail to stabilise a dying mate on a natural 1, and doesn't feel the need to improve that skill any further for the time being, represents a decent-sized gain at only a somewhat token cost that doesn't have too harsh an impact on the number of skill points he has available to spend on tumble, climb and move silently. At the same time, a +5 bonus on a knowledge check boosts the odds of success on any reasonable knowledge check by a very reasonable amount.
#3 catra Jul 16, 2005 18:41:36	Here is what I suggest: For getting 5 ranks in a skill, you get a +2 bonus as normal. However, unless you have a high enough ability score in the relevant score for that skill, you may not increase it another +2 until you do. For example, if you have a Dexterity of 10, and have 10 ranks in Tumble...you only get a +2 synergy bonus on all skills that synergize with Tumble. Now, when that ability score increases to 12, you automatically gain that extra +2 synergy bonus. By this time your tumble ranks have increased, but even with those 15 ranks in tumble, you only get a +4 bonus from Synergy until your Ability modifier goes up again. To simplify, you gain another +2 for every point your ability modifier goes up for that relevant skill (in this case, Dex for Tumble). So at a Dex of 10, 5 ranks in Tumble, you get a +2 syn. bonus. At Dex 12, 10 ranks in tumble, you get +4 syn. bonus. BUT, at Dex 13, 15 ranks in Tumble, you still only have a +4 bonus because your Dex modifier did not go up. Are you seeing the pattern?