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| #1zombiegleemaxJul 24, 2006 11:36:50 | This essay is the first in a series on D&D Combat Theory. To open this series, I have chosen a style of fighting that many players have overlooked: Mounted Combat. Mounted combat is a rich style of combat that requires a good knowledge of game mechanics, but that is also quite forward and easy to visualize. Let me make a few preliminary statements: Though D&D is set in a fantasy world of monsters and magic, when we think of mounted combat we are often drawn to thoughts of mounted knights atop heavy warhorses, personified by the Cavalier prestige class (Complete Warrior). This essay is keyed around that more historical perspective, so for that reason, I’m assuming your mount is a horse. However, these tactics are readily adaptable to other types of mounts. The first concept to consider when thinking about using mounted combat for your character is the number of feats you will have. Mounted combat, like many others, is a rather long feat tree. As such, fighters often make the best mounted combatants for two reasons. The first is that a fighter can choose to finish the mounted combat tree at a lower level than other classes. The second reason is that once the mounted combat tree is filled out, a fighter will still have feats to specialize in other areas of combat as well, so fighters can keep their edge even when they are off their mounts. However, if a different class is focused on mounted combat, they can be just as good in that specialty; it will simply take them longer. As such, paladins, rangers, and barbarians can make excellent mounted warriors as well. In certain situations, they can even be better suited to mounted combat than a fighter. (For example: paladins can summon their mounts in situations where a fighter wouldn’t have access to a mount.) However, regardless of its effectiveness, when choosing mounted combat, always consider how often you will have an opportunity to be mounted in a campaign. The Basics: The first important aspect to remember in how mounted combat works is that your mount is faster than you, and is probably faster than your opponent, so it is much easier to have control over when events will happen, and hopefully, who will go first. However, faster or not, often you will fight in melee from the back of your horse. In these situations, you have several advantages over an opponent. The most straightforward of these is that you gain a +1 attack bonus against foes smaller than your mount as you strike down at them. As every seasoned player knows, every last +1 squeezed from the dice is one more hit that should’ve missed. The next advantage is that your horse is its own creature, able to attack at your discretion. The damage of a hoof attack is not necessarily great, but it is effectively free extra damage, so use it. The last advantage to consider is also related to your horse, as your horse is a legitimate target of attack. Probably your horse is weaker than you are, so you may call this a disadvantage, but consider: if you have a good ride skill and the mounted combat feat, when someone hits your mount, once per round you can make a ride check versus the attack roll to force your opponent to miss instead. And, since there are several good ways to improve your ride skill, you should be able to “dodge” a good amount of attacks in this way. Your horse will undoubtedly get injured in combat, but two ideas should be remembered: First, every attack aimed at your horse is an attack not aimed at you, and all the while you are attacking in whatever form you choose. And, secondly, should your horse go down, you will hopefully have a significant advantage in hit points as the battle continues. Yet, nobody likes to lose a good companion, so the downside is that while you have these advantages, you must be watchful of your mount’s condition. My next topic is very important to successful mounted combat: the bonus move – action. A great advantage that you will have is that you and your mount move together, but you use the mount’s move action to do so. What this means is that while your body is moving around a battlefield (carried by your horse), you still have both a standard action and a move action to use each round. You cannot use the move action to actually move unless you dismount, so it is effectively a move – equivalent action. Unfortunately, if your mount moves more than 5’ in a round, you cannot use that move action to start a full-round attack, but consider some more subtle uses. You can use this extra move action for mundane activities, such as reloading a crossbow, mounting or dismounting, sheathing or holstering a weapon (like your lance…yes, you don’t have to drop it), or for more strategic uses, such as making spot checks to get a better feel for what the enemy is up to. In short, don’t forget that your horse moves, not you, so don’t throw away this valuable action. The Base Feats: A mounted combatant is good in melee but shines when fighting on the move. As a mounted combatant, you can gain a substantial advantage when you can keep away from your opponent. The primary purpose of this distance for short-range combat is the charge. At this point, I am assuming a character has taken the mounted combat feat. A mounted charge is no different mechanically from a normal charge, with the important exception that other mounted feats can be use in combination with a mounted charge. If you have taken the Ride-by-Attack feat, then your first sizeable advantage appears. You can perform a mounted charge against an opponent, strike him, and continue moving past, all without incurring an attack of opportunity. By using this tactic, and some thinking, you can often keep distance continually, and only close to melee during a charge, while your opponent cannot attack you from melee range unless he readies an attack. It is not a fantastic tactic by any means, but it can be quite effectively in the right circumstances. However, if you remember the extra move action you haven’t been using, it can be used to great effect in this situation as you can attack with a lance; the move action enabling you to do weapon transitions from and to your lance more smoothly…perfectly if you have quick draw with either weapon. The benefit here is that a lance does x2 damage on a charge, and x4 when you rolled that oh so sweet critical. If this tactic is appealing to you, also consider the Spirited Charge feat, which makes any attack during a charge x2 damage, even a sword (when you know you’re closing to melee and not riding-by, for example). Spirited charge also makes that lance charge hit for x3 normally, or the glorious x5 critical hit. An Advanced Move – The Trample and the Cavalry Charge The first truly non-basic concept in mounted combat is Trample. You do not need a feat to trample, only a mount, but there are some useful feats if you intend to trample more often. A trample is a special attack where you attempt to run down an opponent, knocking them prone, and effectively walking all over them. A standard trample can be helpful when your opponent is fleeing from you, or trying to get to a defensible position, as you slow them down by trampling them (during a ride-by-attack, for example), giving you more opportunities to charge for high damage. However, trampling is never easy, and is often quite dangerous, as follows: When you trample, you must enter your opponent’s square and so you suffer an attack of opportunity. No feat exists in D&D to remove this attack. Also, your opponent can simply choose to get out of the way, unless he wants to try and stop you. Lastly, you can only trample one target a round, so think before you rush headlong into a larger group of enemies. I consider trampling the first non-basic mounted combat ability for these reasons, as it is more dangerous than others. Several feats and tactics can help make trampling quite effective. If you take the Trample feat, your opponent can’t choose to avoid you, which is useful if you want to run them down, and your mount gets to step on (attack) anyone it tramples. Also, if you are charging with a lance (a reach weapon), you will often be able to strike first, before the attack of opportunity. If you then think you can kill the target then you will be able to attempt a trample on the target behind him (a DM may argue this tactic, as it “bends” the rules in a 2nd edition kind of way, but it seems reasonable to me.) If you foresee yourself in a mounted assault against an enemy line (Lord of the Rings, for example), perhaps with other riders as allies, consider the Cavalry Charge feat from Complete Warrior. It is a tactical feat that gives you a few interesting abilities, one of which is Fell Trample, which removes the limitation of only one trample attempt per round. This feat allows you to be able to charge deep into enemy lines (if you have a good reason to BE deep in enemy lines), or plowing through an entire group, perhaps to reach a more tender target in the back lines. One warning about this tactic, however, is that besides each trampled foe getting an attack of opportunity, if you leave the threatened squares of adjacent enemies that you pass by, they may also get attacks of opportunity. Therefore, be careful when trampling, as you may be put at a high risk of damage from opportunistic opponents. As such, I recommend two excellent feats for tramplers. The Mobility feat gets you a +4 bonus against attacks of opportunity, which can be very helpful (Paladins might even consider this feat for one of their mount’s feats as your mount gains hit dice, making your mount harder to hit as well). Secondly, all tramplers should be well aware of the dangers of grapplers. A successful grapple attempt against a mounted character dismounts you, and when you are dismounted, all those lovely feats you’ve worked so hard to get mean squat. If you feel trample-happy, you should give great consideration to the Close-Quarters Fighting feat from Complete Warrior; in fact, any mounted specialist would do very well to consider it. Close-Quarters fighting gives you an attack of opportunity against any and all grapple attempts. As you should know, if you damage someone who is attempting to grapple you, the grapple fails unless they have the Improved Grapple feat. But, even with improved grapple, you add the damage you inflicted to your opposed grapple check. This should give you a good chance to stay in the saddle for quite awhile when fighting amidst a sea of enemies. If you envision a sea of enemies, also consider Combat Reflexes if you have a good dex, as close-quarters fighting doesn’t allow you extra attacks of opportunity that you can’t normally make (usually one per round). The last advice I have about trampling is that it can be used effectively as a melee escape tactic as well. If you (or your mount) are in trouble, and need to make a hasty retreat to regain the advantage, you can attempt a short-range trample in melee, and then move away. You’ll suffer the attack of opportunity perhaps, but your opponent will need to stand up before pursuing you. Unorthodox Mounted Combat – Archers and Spellcasters So far, I have focused almost entirely on melee, but now I’d like to extend this essay into ranged combat, such as with archery and spellcasting. Mounted archery should never be overlooked by a warrior, be they fighter or paladin or other, as there are sure to be encounters where melee will be extremely dangerous. The greatest benefit that mounted archery gives to a ranged combatant is mobility; the ability to keep away from painful swords, claws, etc., as you unleash volley after volley of missile weapons (like arrows, rocks, twigs, small halflings, etc.) Yet, there are so many wonderful feats for a ranged specialist, that many may wonder why they should give one up for mounted archery (which reduces your negative while shooting on the move). The question is a valid one, but to fully understand, you must think back to that extra move-action you’ve been using for weapon transitions, spot checks, etc. When your mount moves more than 5’, you can’t make a full-round attack…with a melee weapon. This says nothing whatsoever about ranged attacks. So while your mount hopefully keeps you safe from retribution, you can enjoy a full-round attack action with your bow every round. A similar concept holds true for spellcasters, in that they don’t suffer any negatives at all on most of there spells (except ones that requires attack rolls, such as rays), and they enjoy increased mobility on a battlefield. Additionally, sorcerers and bards (and other spontaneous casters) can feel free to use their metamagics, which require that extra move-action to enable, while not being forced to stand still. The obscure tactics of a mage on a phantom steed with a floating mordenkainen’s sword (courtesy of another poster, I don’t remember who, sorry), I leave to you to figure out. I would like to also comment on some eccentric tactical approaches to mounted archery and mounted spellcasting: the archer’s trample (not a feat, just a concept), and the duck-and-cover. Archers spend a great deal of their time keeping range from their enemies. But, even with the increased base move of a mount, they are often out-maneuvered, and brought to melee range. At that point it is usually quite difficult for an archer to escape, and being predominately dex-based, they don’t usually have a good chance to overrun an opponent. However, trample uses the strength score and size modifiers of the mount, so an archer can often trample just as effectively as a melee warrior, giving them a chance to regain the advantage of range. I recommend reading the description of the Ride skill in the PHB as it details a few additional neat tricks that riders can do. One of those allows you to lean down along the side of your horse, using the body of your mount as cover (+4 bonus to AC). I don’t necessarily recommend that tactic for armored characters, as you’re probably harder to hit than your mount, but if you’re close to death, it may be valuable. However, as archers are dex-based, and often wear little or no armor, consider putting your mount in a suit of medium or even heavy armor (the reduced base speed isn’t as important for an archer), making your mount more difficult to hit than you are. Spellcasters can also find great use from this cover when you need that precious round or two to concentrate through damage, and start casting again. The only downside to this is the DC of the skill check (I believe it is 15). A 15 is not so hard to get, but if you fail, you fall off your mount, so if you like this tactic, remember to consider giving your rogues, rangers, and spellcasters etc. ranks in Ride. A Note on Paladins and Cavaliers If you are very interested in mounted combat, you may consider playing a paladin for the following reasons. The most important reason is that your mount grows in power as you level, making it much harder to kill, and increasing its effectiveness (both in its base attack bonus, and in feats acquired from hit dice). The second reason is that there are paladin spells specifically designed to aid your mount. These can be very useful in a mounted battle. So remember that when you are choosing your spells, a paladin shares the effects of beneficial spells with his mount. The last reason I recommend considering a paladin is that you will be able to summon your mount in situations where a non-paladin would not have access to a mount, and you can dismiss your mount if it is ever in jeopardy of dying. However, paladins have fewer feats than fighters, and are also possibly interested in divine-oriented feats, so being a mounted specialist requires a greater portion of leveling resources. Alternatively, the Cavalier class is the quintessential package for melee-inclined mounted combat specialists. Your attack bonuses when mounted will increase nicely, your charges will be x4 or x5 damage regularly, you’ll be able to speed your mount to speeds others can’t reach when you really need to (you really should read the Ride skill), and perhaps best of all…when you move, go ahead and full-attack with that sword. However, I wouldn’t recommend this prestige class to ranged combatants (definitely not spellcasters), or to anyone who isn’t really interested in dedicated mounted combat. Items There are many items in D&D that make mounted combat even more interesting, assuming you have the wealth to acquire them. The first item, a basic staple, are horseshoes of speed (DMG), which increase the base speed of your mount, effectively allowing you to keep greater distance (mounted archers), charge from further away, ride-by a greater distance from your target, etc. But, more mundanely, buying armor for your mount is a good idea, though consider that it may slow them down if the armor is heavy. Consider armor spikes to dissuade annoying grapplers. Or, for a more exotic feel, ask your DM if you can consider a set of horseshoes as weapons, then enchanting them with +damage enchants such as fiery or icy. If your DM doesn’t allow it, you can still have horseshoes crafted out of special materials such as adamantine, which should let them last longer (for lazy horse-owners), and also bypass annoying damage reductions. Regarding your horse’s armor, the magical enchantment of Fortification is a good choice, provided you can afford it, as your mount will probably have less hit points anyway, and critical hits have a tendency to change situations rapidly. If you are very wealthy, consider a ring of free action for yourself, and never worry about grapple checks again. You’ll probably want to spend the majority of your money on your personal equipment, but I recommend spending some gold on the “set-priced” magical armor modifiers for your mount. I definitely recommend energy resistance modifiers from that category, as fireballs and other area spells will quickly kill an unprotected mount. As I have said, this isn’t a complete breakdown of all things mounted, but I leave what remains to your own imagination. |
| #2zombiegleemaxJul 26, 2006 9:34:16 | Nice write up, I'm surprised more players don't take advantage of Mounted Combat. However, I did note a little discrepancy...Secondly, all tramplers should be well aware of the dangers of grapplers. A successful grapple attempt against a mounted character dismounts you, and when you are dismounted, all those lovely feats you’ve worked so hard to get mean squat. Pulling a rider from their mount is a Trip Attack (PHB pg 159, "Tripping a Mounted Opponent"). Using Grapple doesn't work, since (as my Rules Lawyer player was quick to point out) you must enter your opponent’s space and you can't enter the horse’s space when grappling the rider. There are also technical issues with the Ride-By Attack feat. You must charge to the closest space that you can attack the opponent from, which usually won't allow you to continue past in a straight line. But most "reasonable" DMs (well, you know what I mean) should allow it to work (spirit of the rules and all that). |
| #3prodigalsun_dupJul 26, 2006 11:42:27 | You might consider a couple of additional tactics for trampling. Archers, spellcasters and other people without natural weapons, or not wielding melee weapons do not threaten and as such can't make attacks of opportunity. Trample at no risks Sundering weapons with an adamant(ine) lance will effectively disarm your enemies = more safe tramples! Great post, keep up the good work ![]() |
| #4nastynateJul 27, 2006 8:46:09 | Sundering weapons with an adamant(ine) lance will effectively disarm your enemies = more safe tramples! Just FYI, you cannot sunder with piercing weapons. |
| #5zombiegleemaxJul 27, 2006 13:37:32 | Awesome post! I for one have always been the one of the group that wants to get and use a horse all the time when possible. The DM finally gave me permission to one game and it was a blast! Most of these ideas I didn’t even think about. Definitely informational and it has given me a ton of ideas now. |
| #6prodigalsun_dupJul 27, 2006 17:15:46 | Just FYI, you cannot sunder with piercing weapons. Indeed you can't! ![]() There goes that nice mounted sundering build! |
| #7vintarJul 27, 2006 22:52:30 | While I know you can't technically sunder with piercing weapons, I'd be willing to say that you can sunder a shield with a lance--you just do half damage. (This is harder in my world than it could be as I make it so that adamantine merely cancels the first 10 points of hardness. Period. It makes it so an adamantine weapon can sunder and adamantine weapon as easily as a steel weapon can steel. Still goes through non-enchanted steel like butter.) |
| #8fleetfangAug 03, 2006 11:37:09 | I'd like to throw in a few addendums... 1) I don't believe you can have an adamantine lance, as the weapons are primarily made of wood. As per the DMG, you can't have an adamantine weapon of a type that isn't primarily made of metal. 2) I believe the original post is in error on the "extra" move action. When your mount moves, it counts as your move. Yes, you can combine drawing a weapon or readying/losening a shield during that move, but otherwise it acts exactly as if you were moving. No sheathing a weapon on that move action unless your DM has houseruled that in. 3) Keep the Charging lanes clear. No PC exists in a vacuum. Talk to your fellow party members. Make sure that they know to leave you a 10' corridor to charge through/past/to. If your allies are in the way, there's no way you can get that charge in, and your x5 crit modifier is worthless. If they continually forget to leave your combat options open, charge them and strike for subdual. When you do 3d8+86 points of subdual, knocking them into a coma for a day or three, they probably won't forget again. 4) Always be looking at least a round ahead in the combat, since you'll need to be setting yourself up for the next round's charge when you end your turn this round. If you face multiple targets, try to fake them out. Every time your enemies ready an action to attack you when you ride-by, if you DON'T ride by, they've wasted their turn. Attack someone else, or take the opportunity to heal one of your allies. Taunt them. Whatever. 5) Q: What's the difference between 3d8+15 and 3d8+69? A: Power Attack. It's HUGE. Your damage will increase even faster if you're using both hands to wield your lance. It gets ugly. Throw in the divine feat Divine Might and the (1st level!) spell Rhino's Rush and an 8th level Paladin can easily do 70 points of damage on a smiting charge. But he can get something like 140 points by power attacking. 6) When calculating how much damage you want to do with your charge, don't forget the magic number of 50 hp. I've seen not one but two different mounted paladins drop EL+3 dragons by forcing a roll for massive damage. Sure, the odds aren't great, but hey, there's a 1 on every d20, and the more times you force that massive damage save, the more times that you could drop the BBEG in one hit. Plus, it's just really satisfying to take out a giant monster in one hit. You know you want to. 7) Max out your Ride skill. I don't think this was stated above, and it needs to be. It can't be stressed enough. There are too many maneuvers you need to pull off. Don't stop pumping ranks into it until you can get at least a DC 20 automatically. 8) Always have a Plan B. Whether you're a Paladin or not, carry scrolls of Mount with you. It's a 25 gp insurance policy to make sure that you don't go from being a 6th Level Paladin to a Fighter with no feats when you lose your Mount. Give the scrolls to the Wizard, Sorcerer, or Bard or UMD Rogue in your party, and make sure that they know if they want you to keep pounding on the bad guys, then if you lose your mount the next thing they need to do is replace it. Otherwise, you can't do your job of protecting their soft and fragile d4 hit-dies. 9) Consider dipping into Sorcerer for one level. It's a crap hit die, +0 BAB, and puts off advancement as a Cavalier, but True Strike has no somatic component, so you don't have to worry about arcane spell failure chance in your full plate armor. True Strike allows you to confidently Power Attack for full, insuring that your 4d8+5d6+136 damage Rhino's Rush/Smiting/Divine Might/Divine Sacrifice/Spirited Charge/Ride-by Attack finds its mark. Feather Fall is another no-somatic spell that might come in handy. Or Swift Expeditious Retreat. Share that spell with your Paladin Mount and charge the bad guys from 180 feet away. Yeee-HA! EQUIPMENT: a) Armbands of Might. +2 damage for every Power Attack above 2, and they're in your bracer slot. What else are you going to use THAT for? (Though if you're splitting your focus and branching out into Mounted Archery, you may want to get Bracers of Archery.) The Armbands are a better bet in my opinion, so get them as soon as you can. Cheap and Good. They also help with Strength checks, with oppose those Trip attempts to dismount you. b) Gloves of Fortunate Striking. Nothing sucks more for you than burning a turn for Divine Might, Smiting, casting Rhino's Rush and power attacking for 4, and then missing the attack. Nothing sucks more for your ENEMY than when you get to re-roll that miss and skewer his evil head on your lance. Yes, they take up your DexGloves slot, but frankly, you're getting your AC from Armor, not agility. My personal preference is for the re-roll. c) While a Belt of One Mighty Blow helps to stack extra damage on your mounted combat ICBM, and it's a cheap purchase at lower levels, you'll eventually want to use your belt slot for what it's intended for: your +4/+6 Strength bonus belt. This helps your atack, your damage, and by extension your Power Attacks. d) A Cloak of Elemental protection is good, since as soon as you start dealing 80-point attacks every round, you're going to become the target of every spell slinger out there. If you are a Paladin, get the Cloak of Charisma. Combined with Divine Might, it'll help bump your damage. Combined with Smite, it helps your attack. No-brainer there. Put your Cloak of Elemental Protection on your mount. e) Horseshoes of Speed are nice, but so long as you're keeping a horse for your mount, I believe Horseshoes of the Zephyr are FAR more useful than adding additional distance to what is --for most practical purposes-- plenty far enough distance on ride-by attacks. A common problem that mounted chargers face is Difficult Terrain. It shuts down a charge instnatly and for most mounted combatants, without flat terrain to charge in, you've lost half of your feats and your primary attack tactic. Horseshoes of the Zephyr ignore difficult terrain, making the whole world your charging lane. |
| #9zombiegleemaxAug 03, 2006 20:53:18 | 2) I believe the original post is in error on the "extra" move action. When your mount moves, it counts as your move. Yes, you can combine drawing a weapon or readying/losening a shield during that move, but otherwise it acts exactly as if you were moving. No sheathing a weapon on that move action unless your DM has houseruled that in. PHB pg 157, Combat while Mounted (4th paragraph): "Likewise, [i]you can take move actions normally[/i], so that, for instance, you can load and fire a light crossbow in a round while your mount is moving." It seems to me that the "extra" move action is correct. It's even substantiated by the example, since it's a move action to load a light crossbow (that cannot be combined with a move action). |
| #10sagebahamutAug 04, 2006 0:38:17 | Not to sound combative - as that's not my intent - could you post where the Belt of One Mighty Blow, Armbands of Might, and Gloves of Fortunate Striking are printed? I've never heard of them and I would like to read up. ![]() |
| #11_sl0t_Aug 04, 2006 2:40:14 | Wow, you guys have an amazing thing going on here. I'm currently playing a Paladin and I love Mounted Combat, but still not everything was so clear to me, like Trample. Please Falidamari, keep updating the first topic with the additional info we post, or tell us if you can't do it. I will happily repost and keep it updated. :D At the end of my post there is a brief explanation of everything used and where to find it. High Ride Ranks As Fleetfang said, keep it as high as possible so you can easily execute maneuvers or avoid attacks again your mount without even rolling a dice. Some helpful notes: - 5 ranks in Handle Animal gives +2 bonus on Ride checks. - If you have a high DEX score, make sure you can use all of it. Mithral armor and the Armor Special Ability Nimbleness are helpful. - always use a saddle. Not using one gives you a -5 penalty, a military saddle gives a +2 circumstance bonus. If your mount is a horse, get a Equestrian's Saddle for a +10 circumstance bonus. - Battle Bridle gives a +10 competence bonus on Ride checks. It also grants the feat Mounted Combat to the rider, if the rider already has this feat then it grants him Ride-By-Attack. - Additional DEX is always helpful as long as it isn't getting in the way of more important magical items. Better AC, Reflex Saves, Initiative, DEX related skills bonus and especially for Ride. "Keep the Charging lanes clear" Show your group the importance of this and learn the Teamwork Benefit Crowded Charge. Please note that it affects all members of the team, regardless of the the team leader for this benefit. So if Jump is a CC skill for you, ask another member of the team that has Jump as class skill to get the 8 ranks in Jump instead of you. Exotic Mounts As a Paladin, you'll have more options of available mounts at the cost of a few extra levels on this class. Unless you are looking for flavor, there are only three Large-sized mounts that really matters: - Pegasus (Paladin lvl 7) - Best flying mount available for a Paladin. - Rhinoceros (Paladin lvl 7) - Great charge attack and carry load capacity. - Dire Lion (Paladin lvl 8) - Able to make a full attack plus two rake attacks on a charge. "I am not a Paladin but I want an exotic mount." You can always buy or capture the animal and train it. Depending on the mount you desired there are other ways of obtaining it. For instance, I remember reading a feat that lets you summon a Celestial Pegasus, but I can't find it. Paladin's Special Mount Although you don't need to be a Paladin to get an exotic mount, there are other reasons why you should consider taking paladin levels, like the ability to share spells and the HD increase. - Savage Species has lots of good feats especially for animals and monsters and you can get a bunch of really nice stuff for your mount. - The Book of Exalted Deeds has an Exalted feat called Celestial mount. It adds the template Celestial to your mount. A great feat if you are worried about keeping your mount alive. It will get SR, DR X/magic and resistance to ice, cold and electricity, all based in its HD. It also grants one daily use of Smite EVil. Tactical Feats The Tactical Feats Shock Trooper and Combat Brute are also very appropriate to this build. An example of heedless charge using Ride-By-Attack, Spirited Charge, Shock Trooper and Combat Brute and a MW Lance with STR 14 and BAB 15. AB - 15 + 1 (MW) + 1 (Riding) + 2 (Charge) = 19 Taking 10 AC penalty for PA (Heedless Charge) *successful hit* Damage = 3*( 1d8 + 3 + 20 ) = 3d8 + 69 Start Bull-rush maneuver Bull-rush check bonus = 2 (STR) + 4 (Improved Bull-rush) + 2 (Charge) = 8 Foe is pushed back a square for every 5 points of difference between your and his check. *enemy is pushed back 2 squares (for instance)* -- next round -- - If the enemy isn't dead, if you attack him on this round you'll get +1 on attack and damage rollls for each square you moved him. - either way, you can use Momentum Swing from Combat Brute now, even against another target. If you do it on another Heedless Charge like the previous one, the damage will be: 3*( 1d8 + 3 + 20 + 30 ) = 3d8 + 159. I know the AC isn't considered here and the attack might miss, but it's also at STR 14 and ordinary gear. Mounted Sundering Just because you can't sunder with a lance it doesn't mean you can't sunder in mounted combat. Get an adamantine sword, enchant it with Valorous (double the damage of the weapon when used on a charge) and charge away with your Spirited Charge. Add the tactical feat Combat Brute and you are allowed to do a free Cleave if you sunder the foe's weapon AND add extra damage on the attacks on your extra turn from using PA on this charge. Arcane spells Dipping a level in sorcerer also allows you to use Enlarge and Reduce Person. This way, a paladin can enlarge himself and his Mount for extra damage or reduce both to be able to keep mounted in small spaces (the mount gets about 3 feet height). You'll lose damage from being small, but it will still be way better than being medium on foot. Just pay attention to the 1 minute duration. Don't forget these ones have somatic components. This is almost a must for a Paladin, since a high CHA will give you additional spells and therefore plenty uses of True Strike. Used feats and items. Mithral - DMG Nimbleness - Magic of Faerun Equestrian's Saddle - Arms and Equipment Guide (It's a 3.0 book, this item is a little underpriced) Battle Bridle - Magic of Faerun Crowded Charge - PHBII Celestial mount - Book of Exalted Deeds Shock Trooper and Combat Brute - Complete Warrior Valorous - Unapproachable East Keep up the good work! ![]() |
| #12malkonnenAug 04, 2006 10:49:05 | I'd like to throw in a few addendums... I believe you can for the same reason you can have adamantine arrows: as long as the weapon has a metallic striking head it can be made adamantine. So you can have adamantine lances, arrows, and maces, but not clubs or staves. 2) I believe the original post is in error on the "extra" move action. When your mount moves, it counts as your move. Yes, you can combine drawing a weapon or readying/loosening a shield during that move, but otherwise it acts exactly as if you were moving. No sheathing a weapon on that move action unless your DM has houseruled that in. Actually, Falidamari is essentially correct. While you don't get a bonus action the list of move-equivalent actions which can be combined with your mount's move is drastically larger than MEAs which can be combined with your move. This article explicitly states what actions you can take while your mount moves, and in general is extremely helpful in understanding mounted combat. The only thing that I believe is still debated is whether making a mounted charge requires the rider to take the charge action, or if he can do a MEA + Standard action attack (still gaining the charge bonuses and penalties). Most seem to agree that the latter is RAW, but the former is more in line with the spirit/intent of the rules. That said, I really like your ideas. I, too, have found the armbands of Might to be an oft overlooked magic item. The +2 to strength checks like Trip alone is well worth the price tag. |
| #13fleetfangAug 04, 2006 13:03:37 | Thanks for the guidance on my first and second points. The Adamantine arrows example makes perfect sense (though that IS "ammunition," so one might argue that it's not a fully compatible analogy), so I think it probably comes down to your DM. (I'm convinced however.) And as for the extra move-equivalent action: I do stand corrected. Time to start taking advantage of that! SageBahamut, The items I mentioned are all in the Miniatures Handbook, a great little resource for cheap but good utility magic items. The Armbands of Might add two to damage whenever your power attack for 2 or more. They also grant a +2 to Strength checks (which would include trips and dismounts ...and bend bars/lift gates if you were in a 1st edition frame of mind). The Belt of One Mighty Blow activates once per day as a swift action to add damage to a single attack. The number of bonus d6's is dependant on the size of the weapon being wielded. For a lance, it's a bonus 5d6. Note however, if you're using this in conjunction with a swift spell like Rhino's Rush, that they won't both work in the same round (since you only get one swift action each round). The Gloves of Fortunate Striking allow you to reroll a single missed attack roll once per day. The Cloak of Elemental Protection is great, made even more awesome by it's cheap price tag. Once per day as an immediate action it activates as a Protection from Energy spell, absorbing one of the four main energy types (maybe sonic too, don't have the book in front of me). The immediate action and duration (in absense of errata, the duration is derived by most from the minimum caster level required to create it) make it a great item to keep even higher level PCs alive. If you don't need Cha, I'd say it's the best cloak slot filler out there. And of course, the Horseshoes of the Zephyr are in the DMG. Ride on! -FF |
| #14oakspar77777Aug 07, 2006 3:47:15 | I find that you have missed, if still hinting at, two of the other classes which are naturally built for mounted combat. They are the Ranger and the Druid. The Druid's animal companion from LV1 can be a mount (horse or doggy). Indeed, a tweeked out Halfling Druid's Riding Dog can have an AC of 23 by level 3 and 26hp for just 100gp. The Druid's animal companion grows in strength faster than a Paladin's mount without the 5 level wait. Moreover, it is easier to replace should the tragic happen. A Druid also shares spells with its mount, and has more and better spells to do that with. While the feats are harder to come by, Ride is still a class skill. No Handle Animal problems either (which Fighter's sometimes face). The mounted Druid can be a swift combat medic when needed, or an able spellcasting rider. Finally, a Druid can master a host of strange and fantastic mounts that other class's puny horses cannot hope to match (Rhinos, T-Rex, Dire Wolves, etc). The Ranger also gets an animal companion, either at 1/2 class level, or if your DM is wise, at Ranger Level -3. This essentially gives the Ranger the same joys as the Druid or Paladin, if slightly weaker. What the Ranger also gets, however, are lots of free archery feats, opening up other feats for Mounted Combat. Thus, the ranged mounted option is better as a Ranger, who can still stack the same mounted and archery feats, but with a stronger mount and a handful of spells to share. |
| #15dunelordAug 07, 2006 13:03:07 | How do you stop the bad guy from just killing your horse at higher levels? |
| #16empiroAug 08, 2006 1:36:14 | I think one thing that addresses the weakness of a mounted character with a large mount: lack of maneuverability because of the mount's size in a dungeon situation is to be small and use a medium sized mount! The disadvantage of course, is that you'll do less damage due to lower strength and a smaller weapon (and you won't be able to trample as effectively), but I think the versatility makes up for that. As an added bonus, halfling characters can take the Halfling Outrider prestige class (Complete Warrior), which has an ability that allows you to charge through your own companions. As a second added bonus, the class continues to advance your animal companion and paladin mount. A halfling Paladin/Halfling Outrider/Cavalier would be a dangerous charger indeed. |
| #17_sl0t_Aug 08, 2006 10:34:40 | Thanks for the information about Druids and Rangers, Oakspar77777. Although the Druid looks good with his spells and stronger companion, the Ranger looks way more appealing for a mounted warrior with his archery feats.Start Bull-rush maneuver I made a mistake in this section of my last post. When you do a mounted Bull-rush, you use your mount's statistics instead of mine. So it would be: +X (STR, usually at least 4), +4 (Improved Bull-rush) +Y (Size, +4 for large, +0 for medium) + 2 Charge. How do you stop the bad guy from just killing your horse at higher levels? Leadership Take the Leadership feat and choose your regular mount, familiar, companion or special mount as your partner. You may also add a template depending on the mount's level and the level you get it. Benefits: Your mount will get half of the xp you get and level up as a normal player. However, its max level is your level - 2. So if your mount also against HD for being a special mount or something, it will stop receiving xp at [xp to next level to next level-1] and won't level up until you are two levels above it again. It does not decrease the amount of xp your party, or you receives. Don't ever fear spells that affect up to a certain HD again, because if you are not affected, your mount will most likely not be affected either, but if you are affected, you are both screwed anyway. :P As a partner, it will also receive a share of the wealth of the group. Divide the wealth by the group + 1. Half of this last share is given to your partner. The other half is divided again by the group, except the partner. I know sometimes people complain about buying gear for your mount, as it were benefit only for you, not for the group. So if this is your case, assuring a share of the wealth for your mount gives you money to keep it protected without spending your entire share, which should be used also for your protection. Buy Decent Gear Here are the slots available for items for mounts One skull cap or helm One pair of lenses or goggles One collar One saddle blanket or vest One saddle or jacket One belt or strap worn in front of or over the haunches One pectoral or harness worn over the chest or shoulders One pair foreleg bracers One pair of foreleg shoes or mitts -- hoofed creatures wear shoes and creatures with paws wear mitts Two rings -- creatures with toes wear rings on the toes and creatures with hooves wear "rings" just above fore hooves One pair of hind leg shoes or mitts -- hoofed creatures wear shoes and creatures with paws wear mitts Ability Score Increase If your mount doesn't need a certain high score, like STR or DEX for something, pump its CON as high as possible. Share Spells Any spell you cast in yourself also affects the mount if you are near to it. So, every time you are mounted, not only you can protect you both with one spell but also heal. Getting a level on a class that grants you spontaneous healing spells or getting a feat that grants you this allow you to easily keep you and your mounted healed. Tumble Pump your mount's Tumble to avoid AoOs while moving. Templates Celestial, Fiend, Half Celestial, Half Fiend and Half Dragon templates grants your mount some damage reduction, spell resistance and damage reduction for some energy types. You can get a template with Leadership or with a feat from BoED or BoVD, like Celestial familiar. Ride Once again, pump your Ride as high as possible and use it wisely to avoid heavy attacks against your mount. |
| #18zombiegleemaxAug 20, 2006 22:14:44 | Good discussion! ...I have recently been looking at animals that would be suitable within a dungeon environment. It sucks when you have all these mounted feats and a built up character oriented to be a mounted charger when your critter won't fit indoors. So, the halfling outrider is one option, but for a truely amazing subterranean mount, check out the wolverine. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wolverine.htm It's got a climb and a burrow speed. Very nice, and for Druids / Rangers, it's only a level - 3 animal, so you can have one at reasonably low level. It can dig for you when you need it to, it's a medium size animal, so it can go anywhere a dwarf can, and having a climb speed is just a winner! So, the rider would have to be either a halfling or a gnome (the gnome, being able to speak with burrowing animals is pretty cool). But you could still hand out some serious damage on a big charge. MY QUESTION THOUGH: Is there any feat or substitution level that would allow a Paladin (and later on a Cavalier) to choose a non-traditional animal for a mount? I REALLY want to develop a wolverine riding charger, and would rather go the Paladin/Cavalier route, but I would bite the bullet and design a druidic charger if I had no other choice. I just don't know where I can find something that would allow me to change up the animal for the Paladin's mount (kind of like Improved Familiar or something). A source or a reference would be greatly appreciated. |
| #19arjomanesAug 30, 2006 23:22:16 | A spellcaster can use the Improved Familiar feat to get a medium sized mount as a familiar (see the alternate battle-familiar list in complete warrior). This way, a halfling could have a blink dog or worg as an animal companion, or a human at higher levels could use a hippogriff. A duskblade with the obtain familiar feat could get a mount faster since they'll meet the BAB requirements sooner. |
| #20_sl0t_Nov 08, 2006 23:47:13 | MY QUESTION THOUGH: Is there any feat or substitution level that would allow a Paladin (and later on a Cavalier) to choose a non-traditional animal for a mount? I REALLY want to develop a wolverine riding charger, and would rather go the Paladin/Cavalier route, but I would bite the bullet and design a druidic charger if I had no other choice. I just don't know where I can find something that would allow me to change up the animal for the Paladin's mount (kind of like Improved Familiar or something). The rules for uncommon mounts for paladins are on DMG. Considering the wolverine is a 3DV creature, it would be reasonable to let it be chosen as a mount by a 6th level paladin. However, I'd suggest you to add the celestial template right when you summon it, this should make it only available at 8th level, maybe 7th if you talk to your DM and show that without the celestial template a wolverine is weaker than most options for a 6th level mount. How would you mount a creature in berserk rage tough? In the best scenario, you'd be least doing ride checks every round to be able to fight while the wolverine also fights and to stay on his back. Retreating would be a tough job also, unless you "un-summon" it and run away. |
| #21gahreadNov 11, 2006 10:50:18 | How do you stop the bad guy from just killing your horse at higher levels? At really high levels, say 15+, you don't. The bad guy uses an evil magic effect, your mount dies from 50+ damage, save or die, or weird status effects, and you grin because the fool aimed at the horse instead of you. At really low levels (<3), your mount probably dies once again. You're not so happy because mounts are freakin' expensive at that level, and you couldn't even afford a little barding or something. There goes most of your material wealth, but then again, it took a heck of a lot of damage that could have been going towards you. At everything in between you have either persuaded your caster to create or have bought a Battle Bridle. That gives you the Mounted Combat feat, and now you can make ride checks against an attacker's roll. Grab an Equestrian Saddle and you've got a +20 to your ride check before you even add reflexes and skills. All of a sudden his 25 attack roll doesn't mean very much anymore. |
| #22zombiegleemaxNov 12, 2006 20:19:55 | The humble wolf makes a great mount for a Halfling, with its Trip ability adding a new tool to the toolbox. |
| #23zombiegleemaxNov 13, 2006 10:46:25 | Halfling or Gnome Fighter, core only... |
| #24zombiegleemaxNov 18, 2006 17:08:49 | If you're not a class that has easy access to long lasting buffs for your mount there's not very many options to protect it from magical effects. Mounted combat will protect it from one attack per round (if you keep your ride skill maxed). If you keep your initiative high, important to ensure you get the first charge off, then melee shouldn't be a problem. After you charge and deal X times normal damage the enemy will most likely just try to kill you since you are now right next to them (barring ride-by-attack). However, one thing I just realized would be an excellent protection for your mount is to have the party wizard cast antimagic ray (Spell Compendium 14) on it at the beginning of a battle (and voluntarily fail the save). This doesn't affect your mount's equipment but renders it immune to magical effects. Thus save or die and disintegrate spells will bother you no more. Unfortunately it costs 100gp per casting but at 13th level (7th level spell) you should be able to afford it. |
| #25zombiegleemaxNov 22, 2006 8:41:21 | After you charge and deal X times normal damage the enemy will most likely just try to kill you since you are now right next to them (barring ride-by-attack). Why in the world would a mounted charger not have Ride-by-Attack? Personally, I prefer Fighters to Paladins for the simple fact that, past level three, a mundane warhorse is very easy to replace. A bonded mount is costly in XP loss, and other side-effects. |
| #26ditherNov 22, 2006 10:28:32 | Indeed you can't! Fear not for the sanctity of the mounted sundering build. A mounted warlock with baleful utterance can prove just as useful, if not more so (as shatter at will). |
| #27frankthedmNov 22, 2006 20:56:37 | The humble wolf makes a great mount for a Halfling, with its Trip ability adding a new tool to the toolbox. Yes, but for the wolf to have a chance to trip, you have to give up you change to use a lance or ride by attack. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. Means your attack is launched outside where your mount could attack since a lance has reach. Once you make that attack it is tike to start moving again. ![]() And ride by attack does not empower your mount to make an attack anyhow, just you. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rideByAttack |
| #28saytrNov 22, 2006 22:09:08 | Mounted Combat is useless in 3.5 RAW You'd have to continue thru your target's square to use it. As per "The Sage." He even called it useless in the response. They should change the feat. |
| #29concerroNov 24, 2006 0:45:39 | 6) When calculating how much damage you want to do with your charge, don't forget the magic number of 50 hp. I've seen not one but two different mounted paladins drop EL+3 dragons by forcing a roll for massive damage. Sure, the odds aren't great, but hey, there's a 1 on every d20, and the more times you force that massive damage save, the more times that you could drop the BBEG in one hit. Plus, it's just really satisfying to take out a giant monster in one hit. You know you want to. I understand the rules say 50 hp but it should be done by the amount of hp a monster has instead of a set number. Making a high level wizard with 75hp lose 50hp is not the same as making a dragon with 500+hp lose 50. It does hurt him nearly as much. |
| #30allenchanNov 25, 2006 0:57:56 | Why in the world would a mounted charger not have Ride-by-Attack? Only classes with familiars lose xp. Special Mounts nor animal companions require xp. Animal companions are probably the best, since it takes only a day to get a new one. Special mounts require a month. |
| #31dengarbountyhunterNov 25, 2006 13:51:09 | Has anybody tried undead mounts? I'm trying to create a mounted combat fighter build and I have a True Necromancer (Libris Mortis prestige class) in my group... I've thought of getting an awakened (Libris Mortis again; it basically gives and Int score) skeleton mount (warhorse, or maybe something better if I can, like a rhinoceros). As long as your mount does not have too much HD, the group's cleric/necromancer/whatever can assure its loyalty (rebuke and twice as much cleric level than creature's HD or created by the necromancer himself). You can also be have an undead companion if you are an ex-paladin blackguard, but that's harder to come by... Well, at least you probably already have mounted combat-related feats if you're an ex-paladin. Undead mounts more resilient than living mounts, it never gets to eat, drink or even sleep! If the rider is undead too, you can ride night and day at full speed! A few problem arise though: mindless (as non-awakened skeleton warhorses) undead mounts are hard to control ad they only respond to vocal commands (no "guiding with knees" thing). Plus, they can be turned/rebuked, though awakened undead get a turn resistance bonus. I'd like to get you guys' opinion on the matter (and suggestions on how to improve an undead mount). |
| #32shimuraNov 28, 2006 2:43:14 | In the Eberron book 5 nations there is the Bone Knight (an undead using paladin-type) that can summon and undead mount. You might like to have a shifty at that? |
| #33concerroNov 28, 2006 8:12:05 | When calculating how much damage you want to do with your charge, don't forget the magic number of 50 hp. I've seen not one but two different mounted paladins drop EL+3 dragons by forcing a roll for massive damage. Sure, the odds aren't great, but hey, there's a 1 on every d20, and the more times you force that massive damage save, the more times that you could drop the BBEG in one hit. Plus, it's just really satisfying to take out a giant monster in one hit. You know you want to. 6) p.s. This is really an edit. The way it's posted originally, makes it look like both paragraphs are from one person but the 2nd paragraph is my response to the first paragraph. |
| #34xaqariahNov 28, 2006 12:25:57 | An Advanced Move – The Trample and the Cavalry Charge The Mounted Feat Trample is a use of the Overrun maneuver that does not give the opponent the option to get out of the way. Also, Ride-by Attack, makes sure you do not provoke an AoO from the one you are charging (the one you intend to trample). If you have a mount that is advancing in Hit Dice (like a Paladin's Warhorse, or a Druid's Animal Companion, then you have opportunities to give the mount feats, every three Hit-Dice. Power Attack (Improved Overrun) is a great addition to any Mount looking to Trample. Improved Overrun gives you (or in this case, your mount) a +4 to the opposed Strength check, and if your DM still insists that the Trample/Overrun maneuver creates an AoO, then the Improved Overrun Feat gets rid of that, as well. If you succeed in the Overrun, then take your attacks, and since the opponent is prone, you have the opportunity to continue your movement, in a straight line, (from the Ride-By Attack Feat) through your opponent's space, and out of reach. If the Overrun fails, and your mount remains on its feet, you can still make your attack, but you're stuck there, until you get to move again. :P did someone say, "Spirited Charge + shared Psionic Lion's Charge + Trample?" :D |
| #35mogofeidenNov 30, 2006 8:30:11 | How does the ride (fight with warhorse) interact with the Handle Animal (attack), if it does? Because the ride (fight with warhorse) only says that if the mount attacks the rider may use ride (fight with warhorse) to attack as well and not (specifically) mention that ride (fight with warhorse) instructs the mount to attack (although if the mount knows the trick defend it will do so). I ask since riders may not have either a special mount or a companion mount, meaning that they'd need to take a move action to handle animal. Good essay though! |
| #36haferkaDec 01, 2006 23:02:02 | Is there an official ruling on "trample" with a non-horse? The feat says that you get a "hoof" attack, but my riding dog, has no such attack.. I have seen 3 potential rulings: 1) you can NOT trample with a dog. 2) you trample with a bite attack. 3) you trample as a horse, but deal less damage (1d3 subdual), "just like an unarmed strike from a medium creature." |
| #37neuroDec 01, 2006 23:39:35 | This all mounted combat thing is broken. There’s no other fighter type with that much power. It’s just too much damage in one blow, and the thing gets outrageous at epic levels with feats like dire charge. It’s very difficult to land that perfect blow with deadly charge and all your uber feat selection, but with some feats, spells and special mounts (flying mounts with perfect maneuverability, earth gliding mounts) you can do it every round and outpower every other player in the table. The issue about passing through your opponent’s square with ride by attack isn’t that disappointing, the feat reads: RIDE-BY ATTACK [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat. Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.Special: A fighter may select Ride-By Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats. So, yes, you have to pass trough your opponent space to continue in a straight line but you don’t provoke AoO, in fact, you cant charge your enemy passing by his side, you need to draw a line "trough" his space to count it as a charge (there’s an special rule for the jousts in the Complete Warrior where you can do this in this kind of special combat but not in other conditions). So what do I think? BROKENATION. This kind of feat selection could count as a loop hole because of the monstrous amount of damage that a single fighter can deal in one blow, more damage than a maximized meteor swarm, and in some cases, twined maximized meteor swarm, I mean, coooomeee oooon . |
| #38greystarDec 01, 2006 23:59:20 | I've been planning on creating a halfling rider character. I chose halfling since riding medium mounts would combat the fitting into tight spaces problem. However, I also foresaw that even riding dogs and ponies can't climb walls. Using Handle Animal, one could train animals with climb/flight/swim speeds to combat dungeon traversal problems. Ideally, you could train several animals and jump from beast to beast depending on the advantage you need. I also wanted to train magical beasts (like the basilisk) as support units with their extra abilities. Would one require Track and Survival to find the creatures’ nests and yoink the young out for domestication? |
| #39harimanDec 03, 2006 20:40:43 | I find that you have missed, if still hinting at, two of the other classes which are naturally built for mounted combat. They are the Ranger and the Druid. I know a guy who has a gnome druid with a wolf mount. It's an effective combination that often leaves the gnome with extra options (Like dismounting.) during battle. Druids can also SUMMON a mount if necessary. Heck, they can summon mounts smart enough for ANY party member to ride. |
| #40zombiegleemaxDec 03, 2006 21:26:51 | I have a few questions: If you wield a flaming lance while doing a mounted charge, does the flaming portion get multiplied as well? I know that during criticals it does not, but does it during double damage type effects? With cleave do you keep the charge bonus and power attack bonuses? of that attack or not? With supreme cleave, would your mount be able to take a 5 foot step between each target you down? or only once during the attack? Also would the mount get to take the five foot step even when it is you downing the opponent and you with the feat? |
| #41zombiegleemaxDec 04, 2006 11:50:34 | How does the ride (fight with warhorse) interact with the Handle Animal (attack), if it does? Well spotted. Because the ride (fight with warhorse) only says that if the mount attacks the rider may use ride (fight with warhorse) to attack as well and not (specifically) mention that ride (fight with warhorse) instructs the mount to attack (although if the mount knows the trick defend it will do so). I ask since riders may not have either a special mount or a companion mount, meaning that they'd need to take a move action to handle animal. Good essay though! Combat Riding mounts know Attack, Come, Defend, Down, Guard, and Heel. If we're being strict about the RAW, none of these actually lets a character direct their mount in a certain direction, which makes a nonsense of riding in general. More liberally, it might be argued that routine riding requires only a free action. (This is supported by Come and Heel allowing for the animal to go to places that it normally wouldn't; bear in mind that you'll still be required to dismount and lead the steed through anything it doesn't particularly like.)The Attack trick doesn't require an action every round. You fire your critter at a given foe (or just at all apparent enemies) and it attacks until the "Down" trick is performed, or it is injured or otherwise dissuaded from fighting. Fight with Warhorse talks about allowing the character to 'direct' attacks as a free action. That makes me think that, at worst, the mounted combatant has to spend an initial Move action directing their steed to Attack (in general); in later rounds, the Fight with Warhorse application allows a Free Action to exert precise control over those attacks (beyond, say, close and full-attack until flight/Down/victory). As noted, Paladin mounts (with Int 6+) and Animal Companions (which can be handled as a Free Action) won't have this problem. |
| #42widdershinsDec 04, 2006 13:36:36 | A spellcaster can use the Improved Familiar feat to get a medium sized mount as a familiar (see the alternate battle-familiar list in complete warrior). This way, a halfling could have a blink dog or worg as an animal companion, or a human at higher levels could use a hippogriff. A duskblade with the obtain familiar feat could get a mount faster since they'll meet the BAB requirements sooner. If you go this route be sure to get the belt of many pockets from Complete Arcane. In it, the owner can hold his familiar no matter what its size and weight. This means you can take your mount anywhere you can go. |
| #43howie23Dec 04, 2006 15:43:38 | How does the ride (fight with warhorse) interact with the Handle Animal (attack), if it does? Moving the mount about on the table is free; it takes no skill check or action (assuming no environmental conditions). Handle Animal is used to direct the actions of the mount through tricks or push actions. Ordering the mount to attack is a move action Handle Animal check DC 10 if trained, full round action push DC25 if not trained w/the Attack trick, or if attacking an unusual creature w/o the Attack trick. The rider needs to make the Ride check to fight w/warhorse, as you have noted. Essentially, Handle Animal covers getting the mount to do something, Ride is for the riders actions while mounted. David |
| #44xaqariahDec 04, 2006 18:31:27 | How does the ride (fight with warhorse) interact with the Handle Animal (attack), if it does? "Handle Andle (Attack): The animal attacks apparent enemies." (pg. 74, PHB) I would qualify an "apparent enemy" as someone or something that you are attacking, or is attacking you. The animal is most likely being ridden (as a mount) or following the "Heel" or "Guard" command, so you really don't have to direct the animal to attack. It should attack on its own. "Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants or other animals." If the enemy is something that it would not normally attack, then you will have to "Push" the animal, to direct it to attack. This would happen, if you have only trained your animal with the Attack ability once. If you have used two "trick" slots, for Attack, then you will not have to worry about this. So, what is an apparent enemy? I would say that anything attacking you, or the one the animal is guarding, is an apparent enemy, along with anything you attack. If you want the animal to attack something different, or attack without you actually being in combat, then "you may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able." Pointing is a "Free Action". It does not cause you to lose any actions within the round, although it is reasonable to say, that you may only direct your animal, when it is your turn to act. How does this affect a trained mount? Mounted combat, on pg. 157 (PHB), states that "Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it." Just ride up to an apparent enemy, and it will attack, or attack the enemy, and the mount will follow suit. If you wish to split up your attacks, then all you have to do is "point" at the enemy you want your mount to attack, while you attack another, although this would usually only happen with enemies that are near each other, that both you and your mount can reach, at the same time. As the article, by Falidamari, states, just running up, with a mount, and attacking, is not usually the best option. With the Ride-by Attack Feat, you are able to use the charge action with your mount, and attack an enemy, and then continue to move away without provoking an AoO from the opponent you attack. If you are not attacking with a reach weapon, then both you and your mount may take a single attack, as a standard charge, before continuing your movement, past the opponent. (If you or your mount have the ability to make a full attack on a charge, like a lion, then there may be more attacks.) If you are able to set up this situation, as the article states, you are placing both yourself, and your mount, in the safest place... out of reach. If you are following strict miniature rules, then both you and your DM will have to get creative. The Player, to be able to continue attacking without retribution, and the DM, to stop him. This is strategy and tactics that will play out with experience, better than anyone here can advise you. (Although, there is a lot of good advice here, to get you started.) :D |
| #45xaqariahDec 06, 2006 7:49:59 | So what do I think? BROKENATION. This kind of feat selection could count as a loop hole because of the monstrous amount of damage that a single fighter can deal in one blow, more damage than a maximized meteor swarm, and in some cases, twined maximized meteor swarm, I mean, coooomeee oooon Yes, RAW says you have to draw a line through an opponent's space to charge that opponent. Also, RAW... Ride-by Attack does not give you the ability to run willy-nilly through enemy occupied spaces. Think of it more like a mounted-charging "Spring Attack". Move -- Attack -- Move If somebody is in the way, then your movement is done, especially during a charge. Well, then... how do I "ride-by"? There are a number of ways through a space occupied by an opponent. 1) Kill/incapacitate the opponent. 2) Tumble through the opponent's space at a DC of 25 or more. 3) Immobilize the opponent with Ability drain or spells. 4) Knock the opponent prone. (Overrun) Of all of the options, the last one is most likely the way you will be "riding-by". Here's how it works: 1) Declare a Charge. Move to one space before the opponent. If you are attacking with a reach weapon, the attack happens during the move. If you did not kill the opponent, your movement ends here. (Charge to Attacking distance -- Attack -- continue the Charge to one space before the opponent.) otherwise... 2a) Your mount then "declares" that it will attempt to overrun the opponent. (If a Handle Animal check is required, it would happen in conjunction with the mount's movement.) Overrun counts as a Standard Action, and your mount is giving up its attacks to overrun. 2b) The opponent then decides to block, or let you pass. If you are allowed to pass (not an option, with the Trample Feat), your Ride-by Attack happens here, and your mount may finish its movement, in a straight line. If the opponent blocks, then make the appropriate Strength checks. If the opponent is knocked prone, then there's another "+4" to Power Attack with. Movement then continues through the opponent's space. If you have the Trample Feat, then your mount may make a "hoof" attack, as you "ride-by". So, how is this different from a normal overrun? A Standard overrun provokes Attacks of Opportunity (AoO) a number of times, on the approach, as well as into the overrun attempt. Ride-by Attack prevents you from provoking AoO from the one you are attacking. Also, regardless of success, failure or just being allowed to pass, an overrun stops movement, because it takes a Standard Action to initiate. You are stuck next to your opponent. Ride-by Attack, on the other hand, gives you another opportunity to move, as long as you have movement left to continue the charge. This can get messy, and slow down the game, if these rules are only used occasionally, so I wouldn't fault a DM for using Ride-By Attack, the way frankthedm pictured it, in a jousting-style ride-by. It gets rid of having to look up a bunch of rules, and make a bunch of die rolls, and makes Ride-by Attack, just another attack. Then again, if it's used all of the time, remembering the rules, and modifiers wouldn't be as difficult, and it would add another level of strategy and suspense to a combat situation. Oh, and yes, there are ways to combat this. "Set spear vs. charge" is the first, and most obvious one to come to mind, although there are other more sneaky ways of using runners to stop and surround a charger, behind enemy lines, where it's difficult for allies to get close enough to help. :D |
| #46xaqariahDec 06, 2006 8:54:19 | Sorry about this, but I was mistaken in how overrun works. If the opponent chooses to avoid, the overrun attempt does NOT count as an action, and you may continue your movement. You have a number of options, at this point. You and your mount may take their charge attacks, and continue with your second stretch of movement (given to you by the Ride-by Attack Feat), OR you may continue your original move action, and possibly try to overrun someone even further behind the lines, if your line of movement would qualify for a charge. If your movement does not count as a charge, but comes within striking distance of another opponent, you may move to strike them, as well. |
| #47zombiegleemaxDec 08, 2006 17:21:24 | This is a wonderful ongoing essay on Mounted Combat, and I think I can safely presume it will generate many situations where mounted combat sees more use in people's games, not only by players, but by DMs as well. So something else I think should be a part of this discussion are ways in which mounted combat can be actively countered. This will help people figure out how to avoid having their uber-boss oneshotted in the first round, and also help those who wish to use mounted combat themselves to be better prepared for what difficulties they may face. The first thing that comes to my mind is obviously to have your character pick the terrain they will fight on... Warhorses have a lot of their value negated in trench warfare or thick-growth forest. Same goes for houses. If you know you're going to be facing cavalry, find a location to fight from that inhibits the advantages they have. If in doubt, cover the areas that they can charge through with caltrops. Won't help against a flying mount, but when you're dealing with mundane cavalry, it'll make a world of difference. Insist on getting in a few ranged attacks as the cavalry comes at you. Many groups just start their combats at the edge of their table/map. This gives a horribly unfair advantage to someone on horseback, who is probably within charging range during the first round. If this combat is taking place on an open plain (where most large scale battles start), then your archers should have had a couple rounds to take shots at the oncoming attackers. Arrows are cheap, who cares if you have a -8 to hit at max range? You can always roll a "20". Find obscure combinations of feats and techniques that work well together. For instance, the name of the "Cleave" feat implies that it's about slashing weapons, but it's more about the game function of being able to make an additional attack with remaining momentum from the first attack when it drops an opponent. Don't forget that this can apply to piercing weapons as well, and you can not only "set to receive a charge" as was mentioned by a previous poster, but after you kill the horse outright (it's HP should be reduced after your forces dumped some arrows into it while it was coming towards you), your set attack can Cleave into the rider, hopefully killing or at least greatly injuring him also. If your DM doesn't force the group to be bound by RAW, make use of customized weapons for the appropriate circumstances. Build Pikes for your forces (stats as a Longspear except with a 20' reach, -4 to hit unless setting to receive a charge) Remember when facing multiple riders, that they make wonderful cover against one another. If you're medium or smaller (which most of you are), being on one side of a horse will provide full cover against anyone on the other side. Lastly, to fight against or run from mounted combatants effectively, use mounts yourself. When you're on a warhorse, or even a normal horse for that matter, the other guy on the warhorse doesn't get a +1 to hit you for having "higher ground." You can also move faster and have a better chance to run away (especially if you keep dumping bags of caltrops behind you) Even if you don't have mounted combat, filling a castle's bailey with large herd animals can really muck up an invaders attempt to take your castle. You can also do horrible things to enemy camps by stampeding a herd of large animals through it. Lastly, if you really have it in for an organization of heavy cavalry, build a druid who rides a half-dragon rust monster... |
| #48jennanormDec 10, 2006 23:33:17 | Taking a level of sorcerer seems a bit expensive in order to use true strike. A potion of true strike cost a lot less, only 50gp. Maybe you can even get your wizard friend to brew it for you for only 25gp!9) Consider dipping into Sorcerer for one level. It's a crap hit die, +0 BAB, and puts off advancement as a Cavalier, but True Strike has no somatic component, so you don't have to worry about arcane spell failure chance in your full plate armor. True Strike allows you to confidently Power Attack for full, insuring that your 4d8+5d6+136 damage Rhino's Rush/Smiting/Divine Might/Divine Sacrifice/Spirited Charge/Ride-by Attack finds its mark. |
| #49FargrenDec 12, 2006 20:34:52 | Taking a level of sorcerer seems a bit expensive in order to use true strike. A potion of true strike cost a lot less, only 50gp. Maybe you can even get your wizard friend to brew it for you for only 25gp! You can't make a potion of a personal spell such as True Strike. |
| #50xaqariahDec 17, 2006 19:51:28 | The "Rules of the Game Archive" has four articles dealing specifically with Mounts, and how to use them. The archive can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg You have to scroll down a little bit, but the "All About Mounts" articles are all together. I think some of the biggest problems people have had, are with how the Mounted Feats actually work. The fourth article gives this official explanation of the Feats. (Including some references, and clarifications, from the D&D FAQ.) Feats in Mounted Combat |
| #51zombiegleemaxDec 24, 2006 10:52:14 | I have a few questions: |
| #52remmick2099Dec 24, 2006 12:36:27 | Just so I'm totally clear on this.... If the rider has a feat - say, Mobility - does it apply to his mount? That is, if I'm moving through, taking AOOs, and I have mobility, does my mount also get +4 AC? If I have the Leap Attack feat, would that apply to mounted charges I take? |