Credo palatinus

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

tzor

Oct 27, 2003 11:08:50
It would seem that paladin topics are once again are the fuel that fires flame wars. In one sense debates on what would a paladin do almost border on religious/moral debates in terms of the passion and intensity of the participants. Apparently, some people take some things way too seriously. I’ll include myself in that group as well. I remember a thread title that was either here or on another role playing board, “Paladin arguments scare me IRL.”

Given this, it is somewhat surprising to see how simple the actual code of conduct of a paladin is. The PCOC is actually simple, and something many good characters should follow.

Code of Conduct:
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she
  • respect legitimate authority,
  • act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth),
  • help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends),
  • and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
#2

zombiegleemax

Nov 04, 2003 14:13:08
Jasper Paladin thoughts
DMs must come up with a code of conduct for paladins. And allow the player to make adjustments. This needs to be done before the character is created.

The Detect Evil ability of paladins is not a problem. Detect Evil targets creatures, objects and spells. Humanoid are classified as creatures. A character with an evil alignment at tenth or lower level would have a faint aura of power. Up to twenty-fifth level a moderate aura. A priest of evil god who class level is one has a faint, second to fourth a moderate, strong at fifth to tenth, and overwhelming after that. Detect Evil is divination with V, S, Df, how ever it is spell like ability which has no components. Can the detect evil spell like ability be detected? Depends on the Dm handles spell like abilities. And if there are any spells up on the patrons.


So Paladin casts a spell in crowded bar and in eighteen seconds knows at table four there is one overwhelming aura, and three faint traces. He charges! After slaying the evil he is beheaded for murder. Next paladin. A paladin is just another adventurer who can be cast into jail for violating the local laws.

However paladins are not cops.
Ex. Lawyer, Excuse me Bucky the Wonder Paladin, did you say halt I’m a Paladin before you attacked Orcus in the town square.
Bucky, No he was EVIL!
Dm, Boom There it is! No more paladin powers for you since you violated the law.
If this were to happen in a game the dm does not understand paladins.

Also a paladin is not smite on sight sword slinger.
Ex. Bucky the Wonder Paladin while giving a class on justice, decides to detect evil on the Springfield Elementary fourth grade class. Suddenly he rushes over and starts choking Bart Simpson. With the aid of Ned Flanders, Principal Skinner was able to subdue Bucky. Bucky is now doing five to ten in the local pen. Hey that is it. Sideshow Bob is a paladin.

A paladin liberally using his Detect Evil every five rounds isn’t smart either and he is being tacky. Bucky the Wonder paladin arrives on noon stage coach to Tatoonie. He wanders into Jabba’s Bar and Grill (slogan we have good deals). Boom detects evil. He draws his sword. (sfx of mass blaster fire). A small droid rolls out of wall and vacuums up the ashes. The bartender adds another hash mark to paladins’ wasted wall.

What Bucky should do is something like this. Bucky the Wonder paladin and party are stop by Mr. Haney the road side vendor. While Mr. Haney goes into his pitch, Bucky detects evil and receives a faint aura. Bucky, “It sounds like a good deal on the +3 vorpal Ginzu set but I do not trust Mr. Haney. Mr. Haney are you sure this is a good deal?” etc. Bucky then notes Mr. Haney as a person to keep an eye on in the future.

Are paladins the law, Judge Dread of the land? Ask your Dm. IMC it varies with kingdom whether they are the law enforcement office. Now I once had a Paladin chase the party half way across the continent. Once she caught up with party and learned the facts of jail break, she charged them with the jail break. Fined them and made them pay the wergild for the slain guards. Then cut them loose since the party was fighting greater evil than the violation of kingdom laws.

Would Bucky the Wonder Paladin back stab Orcus in the back, when Orcus is shopping at Wal-Mart? Depends on the level and code of conduct of paladin. At first level just as he was going for his sword his cell phone would beep. Bucky, “Hello, Bucky speaking.” Voice, “do not do it. You are not good enough yet.” Bucky, “but he is EVIL!” Voice, “the boss does not employ stupid paladins. Help is on the way so just sit still and don’t get yourself nuked!” Bucky, “What’s nuke?” Voice, “Never mind that!” click. Now if Bucky was twentieth level, and Bucky was shopping for some new Underroos and spied Orcus in the shoe dept and he did nothing. His cell phone would beep. “Bucky here. How may I help you?” Voice, “Clean up on aisle five.” Bucky, “Can’t you see I am shopping in peace here?” Voice, “Clean up on aisle five, now.” Bucky, “Hey I am on vacation! Can’t get someone else?” Voice, “Clean up on aisle five, right now! Or else!” Bucky, “Ok I’m going can’t take a little joke.” Click.


I allow paladins to drink, smoke, flirt etc depending on their CoC. Hey they can have gas if they want to. The CoC for each god is not necessary the same to give each religion and each paladin some style. Also the player decides on how evil aura appears to the paladin. One player uses the taste of crisp bacon for faint, to burnt bacon, to spit it out. Another uses smell and still another uses color yellow, orange, then red.

A dm must never set up a no win dilemma for paladin. So no coming to intersection and having to choose between saving Grandpa Jones from the wolf or running into the burning hut to save Baby Huey.

A dm should give a clear warning that a propose action will result in lost of paladinhood. Either Bucky the Wonder paladin gets a cold shiver as he starts to plan the bank robbery. Or Jasper I will pull the paladin status of Bucky if you keep it up. The warning should be clear enough for player to take five and decide to continue with the action or not.

A player needs to clearly understand how the dm views the CoC. Accept the fact that some players do not get along the dm’s views and play another class.
#3

zombiegleemax

Nov 05, 2003 22:10:08
My favourite trick is having a "Non-lying liar" Paladin!

With careful wording, he can get people believing something that is not true, without ever really implying that it is... ;)
#4

zombiegleemax

Nov 10, 2003 20:14:49
Excellent and well done!

I particularly like your assessment of the Good/Evil Law/Chaos aspect of the Paladin's code.

I, think, however, your assessment that a paladin can "unwillingly" (as in, not liking to or objecting to) commit an evil act is wrong. A stronger corollary is that, in order to prove objection, the Paladin must first seek out alternative means; resorting only to the "lesser of two evils" only when no alternative methodology presents itself.

And a "good" (and by this I don't mean good/evil good) paladin should atone even after that.
#5

zombiegleemax

Nov 18, 2003 3:43:36
There is a given dilemma that I always face when I play a Paladin Character: Is law or good more important in the face of a moral paradox?

A Paladin's CoC was designed initially as a guideline by which a Good empowered character could be created, not a lawful one. Law just ended up as a byproduct of it. Also, its wording makes "eye of the beholder " seem like an understatement. You cannot judge it on its face value, but (like Tzor) you must look up certain words to figure it out.

THIS I KNOW:
A paladin is both Lawful and Good at the same time. While they may seem like good friends, law and good can be two very different and almost enemy-like concepts. Law, by nature, can be unwavering and cruel. Even in a land where there is no evil, laws can be harsh to even the most good and noble characters. Good, on the other hand, promises protection and fairness to all (even evil characters who are "technically" innocent). This can lead to powerful conflicts within a given Paladin.

So now I am back to my problem: Is law or good more important in the face of a moral paradox?

No matter what, a paladin is Lawful Good. This doesn't mean that a Paladin can "choose the lesser of two evils" or decide between law or good. He must take the middle road in the event that the two ideas clash. Never can a Paladin have law take a backseat to good. It doesn't work out that way.

Sorry I had to disagree with you, Tzor.