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Dragon and TSR?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
May 24, 2004 9:31:39 Does anybody happen to know the last issue of Dragon magazine that TSR had anything to do with? Meaning, of course, the TSR pre-WotC buyout. I know the Dragon CD Archive (with issues 1 to 250) didn't come out too long before TSR sold to WotC but I'm curious as to how many TSR issues of Dragon exist beyond those 250. Thanks for the help.
#2
zombiegleemax
May 25, 2004 14:29:08 The first Dragon after #250 that I own is #258. In it - albeit cunningly hidden in an ad - you can read "TSR, a subsidiary of Wizards of the Coast".

Must have been a couple of months before #258 then. There's also advertisement for the 25th anniversary "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" in it, and I always had the feeling that the silver anniversary edition had been solely WotC's idea, though I may be mistaken. If you take a couple of months for planning into consideration, the takeover must have taken place between #250-#255. But that's just my two cents..

Glorfinden
#3
zombiegleemax
May 25, 2004 16:38:06 Thanks for the info.

I know there was a time for about six months that Dragon just stopped hitting the shelves and nobody "knew why." So I'm looking for that time period I guess. Or the issue just before that time period. But, anyway, if your guess is even close to correct that puts almost all of the TSR Dragon magazines in the archive. Interesting.
#4
zombiegleemax
May 26, 2004 15:11:51
I know there was a time for about six months that Dragon just stopped hitting the shelves and nobody "knew why." So I'm looking for that time period I guess. Or the issue just before that time period. But, anyway, if your guess is even close to correct that puts almost all of the TSR Dragon magazines in the archive. Interesting.

Ah yes, I've nearly forgotten that! :-)
I surmised that the delay must reflect itself in the discrepancy between the issue number and the month, say the last TSR-issue would have been printed in May and the next one, WotC-owned, accordingly in November. Dragons back then had alternating pages show the issue and the month / year of publication, so I took a look at #258 and at the CD-ROM #250, and strangely enough issue# and month were in accordance: #250 / August '98 - #258 / April '99 ... 8 issues, 8 months.
Intrigued by that fact, I dug a little bit deeper ... #250 and a lot before them, all have the "TSR, subsidiary of WotC"-line somewhere in the magazine.

The solution:
#236 (December 1996) is the last issue that has been published by TSR.
#237, the first issue with WotC in charge, told of the Wizards' takeover. It also misses the month/year print on alternating pages. The preview pages show the January, February, and March publications.
#238 is the first regular issue after the take-over, published in August '98.

The take-over took place a little bit more than 7 years ago .. tempus fugit!

Glorfinden
#5
zombiegleemax
May 26, 2004 15:21:30 Now that's very interesting...and also explains why the Dragon CD archive hit the shelves in the first place. In a sense, it actually has every issue of Dragon that TSR ever printed on their own. I had no idea.

But that information also prompts me to reword my original question. In light of what I've just read I guess what I should ask is; What was the last issue that focused on AD&D? So if I wanted 2e and earlier articles only what is the last issue I can look at?

Thanks for the food for thought Glorfinden and for all the research.

Edit: Also, am I reading your "timeline" right? You seem to have more than a year (about 18 months?) when Dragon wasn't being published. Is that correct? I remember it seemed like a long time that my subscription was missing but I thought I heard the last count at about six months??
#6
zombiegleemax
May 26, 2004 16:12:31
Originally posted by vader42xx
Edit: Also, am I reading your "timeline" right? You seem to have more than a year (about 18 months?) when Dragon wasn't being published. Is that correct? I remember it seemed like a long time that my subscription was missing but I thought I heard the last count at about six months??

Oops! Sorry, that should read #238 - August '97. ;) August '98 was issue #250.

I'll take a look at the issues after #258 tomorrow, I think I have the first 3e issue somewhere ...

Glorfinden
#7
zombiegleemax
May 27, 2004 1:48:15 Ah, ok, so six or seven months then. And, no worries by the way.

Thanks for looking into it.
#8
robertfisher
May 27, 2004 10:16:58
Originally posted by vader42xx
What was the last issue that focused on AD&D?

I don't know if this answers the question (), but the first 3e issue was #274. I'm sure some issues before that probably had articles previewing 3e, though.
#9
zombiegleemax
May 27, 2004 14:15:28 Thanks, and that's part of it for sure.

So we know that 274 was the stopping point for 2e for sure. Now all we need is to know if it was actually earlier.
#10
zombiegleemax
May 27, 2004 15:44:09 It's as RobertFisher says the first (official) 3e only Dragon is #274. I own #272 and it definitely contains 2e articles plus some 3e previews, like the 3e stats of Tiamat and Bahamut.
If you want definite proof of #274 being the first 3e-only issue, we got to find someone with #273 ...

Glorfinden
#11
zombiegleemax
May 27, 2004 16:10:55 The real pain in the neck (since I can't say what it REALLY is...) is that I've got those issues but about 5000 miles away at the moment. So I can't check. And it's not any real big deal, anyway. lol

The key point is that the CD archive contains about 99% of the AD&D (and earlier) content and that's quite impressive.
#12
varl
May 27, 2004 16:58:56 I have 273. I'll check when I get home.
#13
zombiegleemax
May 28, 2004 1:30:45 Thank you sir.
#14
varl
May 28, 2004 7:56:49 Yes, 274 is the first official issue of 3e. Issue 273 is a tweener. It's a swashbuckling issue that has stats for both editions where appropriate, so there you go. :D
#15
zombiegleemax
May 28, 2004 8:59:29 Thank you again.

Ok, so the CD archive is missing only 23 issues from being a complete collection for all non-3e Dragon magazines. That's not bad at all.
#16
varl
May 28, 2004 9:57:25 I know. 23 issues wouldn't be bad to add to it if I knew how to add them to it, which is probably impossible without the original source code of the CD. Oh well.
#17
zombiegleemax
May 28, 2004 14:41:57 No, but they could be scanned and converted to pdf and burned on a 6th CD. Of course then you wouldn't be able to use the search feature but what the heck, right? Though I don't know why you'd go to all the trouble converting those few issues if you already have the hardcopy anyway.
#18
varl
May 28, 2004 20:03:51 Heh. True. Still, I get tremendous use out of my Dragon archive as it is, even 23 issues short. Questions are asked, and sometimes the answers are a few clicks away. It beats going to issue 116 and looking at the index and hoping the answer to the question is under issue 116. ;)
#19
zombiegleemax
May 29, 2004 2:01:26 Oh I'm sure, in fact I'm surprised to find out that it's only 23 issues short...I thought it would be more. I just order mine so I'm waiting for it to arrive and looking forward to a lot of quality reading.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax May 24, 2004 9:31:39	Does anybody happen to know the last issue of Dragon magazine that TSR had anything to do with? Meaning, of course, the TSR pre-WotC buyout. I know the Dragon CD Archive (with issues 1 to 250) didn't come out too long before TSR sold to WotC but I'm curious as to how many TSR issues of Dragon exist beyond those 250. Thanks for the help.
#2 zombiegleemax May 25, 2004 14:29:08	The first Dragon after #250 that I own is #258. In it - albeit cunningly hidden in an ad - you can read "TSR, a subsidiary of Wizards of the Coast". Must have been a couple of months before #258 then. There's also advertisement for the 25th anniversary "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" in it, and I always had the feeling that the silver anniversary edition had been solely WotC's idea, though I may be mistaken. If you take a couple of months for planning into consideration, the takeover must have taken place between #250-#255. But that's just my two cents.. Glorfinden
#3 zombiegleemax May 25, 2004 16:38:06	Thanks for the info. I know there was a time for about six months that Dragon just stopped hitting the shelves and nobody "knew why." So I'm looking for that time period I guess. Or the issue just before that time period. But, anyway, if your guess is even close to correct that puts almost all of the TSR Dragon magazines in the archive. Interesting.
#4 zombiegleemax May 26, 2004 15:11:51	I know there was a time for about six months that Dragon just stopped hitting the shelves and nobody "knew why." So I'm looking for that time period I guess. Or the issue just before that time period. But, anyway, if your guess is even close to correct that puts almost all of the TSR Dragon magazines in the archive. Interesting. Ah yes, I've nearly forgotten that! :-) I surmised that the delay must reflect itself in the discrepancy between the issue number and the month, say the last TSR-issue would have been printed in May and the next one, WotC-owned, accordingly in November. Dragons back then had alternating pages show the issue and the month / year of publication, so I took a look at #258 and at the CD-ROM #250, and strangely enough issue# and month were in accordance: #250 / August '98 - #258 / April '99 ... 8 issues, 8 months. Intrigued by that fact, I dug a little bit deeper ... #250 and a lot before them, all have the "TSR, subsidiary of WotC"-line somewhere in the magazine. The solution: #236 (December 1996) is the last issue that has been published by TSR. #237, the first issue with WotC in charge, told of the Wizards' takeover. It also misses the month/year print on alternating pages. The preview pages show the January, February, and March publications. #238 is the first regular issue after the take-over, published in August '98. The take-over took place a little bit more than 7 years ago .. tempus fugit! Glorfinden
#5 zombiegleemax May 26, 2004 15:21:30	Now that's very interesting...and also explains why the Dragon CD archive hit the shelves in the first place. In a sense, it actually has every issue of Dragon that TSR ever printed on their own. I had no idea. But that information also prompts me to reword my original question. In light of what I've just read I guess what I should ask is; What was the last issue that focused on AD&D? So if I wanted 2e and earlier articles only what is the last issue I can look at? Thanks for the food for thought Glorfinden and for all the research. Edit: Also, am I reading your "timeline" right? You seem to have more than a year (about 18 months?) when Dragon wasn't being published. Is that correct? I remember it seemed like a long time that my subscription was missing but I thought I heard the last count at about six months??
#6 zombiegleemax May 26, 2004 16:12:31	Originally posted by vader42xx Edit: Also, am I reading your "timeline" right? You seem to have more than a year (about 18 months?) when Dragon wasn't being published. Is that correct? I remember it seemed like a long time that my subscription was missing but I thought I heard the last count at about six months?? Oops! Sorry, that should read #238 - August '97. ;) August '98 was issue #250. I'll take a look at the issues after #258 tomorrow, I think I have the first 3e issue somewhere ... Glorfinden
#7 zombiegleemax May 27, 2004 1:48:15	Ah, ok, so six or seven months then. And, no worries by the way. Thanks for looking into it.
#8 robertfisher May 27, 2004 10:16:58	Originally posted by vader42xx What was the last issue that focused on AD&D? I don't know if this answers the question (), but the first 3e issue was #274. I'm sure some issues before that probably had articles previewing 3e, though.
#9 zombiegleemax May 27, 2004 14:15:28	Thanks, and that's part of it for sure. So we know that 274 was the stopping point for 2e for sure. Now all we need is to know if it was actually earlier.
#10 zombiegleemax May 27, 2004 15:44:09	It's as RobertFisher says the first (official) 3e only Dragon is #274. I own #272 and it definitely contains 2e articles plus some 3e previews, like the 3e stats of Tiamat and Bahamut. If you want definite proof of #274 being the first 3e-only issue, we got to find someone with #273 ... Glorfinden
#11 zombiegleemax May 27, 2004 16:10:55	The real pain in the neck (since I can't say what it REALLY is...) is that I've got those issues but about 5000 miles away at the moment. So I can't check. And it's not any real big deal, anyway. lol The key point is that the CD archive contains about 99% of the AD&D (and earlier) content and that's quite impressive.
#12 varl May 27, 2004 16:58:56	I have 273. I'll check when I get home.
#13 zombiegleemax May 28, 2004 1:30:45	Thank you sir.
#14 varl May 28, 2004 7:56:49	Yes, 274 is the first official issue of 3e. Issue 273 is a tweener. It's a swashbuckling issue that has stats for both editions where appropriate, so there you go. :D
#15 zombiegleemax May 28, 2004 8:59:29	Thank you again. Ok, so the CD archive is missing only 23 issues from being a complete collection for all non-3e Dragon magazines. That's not bad at all.
#16 varl May 28, 2004 9:57:25	I know. 23 issues wouldn't be bad to add to it if I knew how to add them to it, which is probably impossible without the original source code of the CD. Oh well.
#17 zombiegleemax May 28, 2004 14:41:57	No, but they could be scanned and converted to pdf and burned on a 6th CD. Of course then you wouldn't be able to use the search feature but what the heck, right? Though I don't know why you'd go to all the trouble converting those few issues if you already have the hardcopy anyway.
#18 varl May 28, 2004 20:03:51	Heh. True. Still, I get tremendous use out of my Dragon archive as it is, even 23 issues short. Questions are asked, and sometimes the answers are a few clicks away. It beats going to issue 116 and looking at the index and hoping the answer to the question is under issue 116. ;)
#19 zombiegleemax May 29, 2004 2:01:26	Oh I'm sure, in fact I'm surprised to find out that it's only 23 issues short...I thought it would be more. I just order mine so I'm waiting for it to arrive and looking forward to a lot of quality reading.