Enhanced Domain Powers - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Enhanced Domain Powers

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
snakefing
Aug 07, 2005 19:43:50 One of the best ways to distinguish priests of different gods or pantheons is through their domain spells and abilities. Each domain provides a granted power, which gives the priests of that domain access to special skills and abilities that are specific to their religion. Also, the special domain spell lists and domain spell slots encourage the priests to use magic that is oriented toward their domains.

In many ways I feel these abilities don’t go far enough in defining a priesthood according to its deity or ethos. A priestess of Isis really ought to be fundamentally different from a priest of Ra. The differences in domain ought to be evident right across the entire spectrum of their powers and abilities. The current system tends to push clerics toward two broad categories, based on the cure vs. inflict, turn vs. rebuke dichotomy. But a priest of a powerful lawful neutral deity doesn’t fit comfortably into either of these categories.

To change this, I propose the following house rules. They are really two separate rules, but I think they work better together.

[INDENT]Spontaneous casting – Instead of channeling energy into cure or inflict spells, the cleric can channel energy into an appropriate domain spell (from the domain spell list for the cleric’s domain). This represents the cleric’s higher level of familiarity with the domain spells and the deity’s preferred orientation toward that type of magic.
The net effect of this is two-fold. Firstly, cure and inflict magic is going to be more widely available from deities that are oriented toward these types of magic. Secondly, priests will be able have more flexibility to use domain oriented magic, while using their prepared spells for non-domain spells.[/INDENT]

[INDENT]Granted powers – Each domain should have a list of additional granted powers. As usual, the cleric gains access to the currently-defined granted powers for his domain. New, additional granted powers might be available by spending a feat for the granted power. Alternatively, you might have the priests of some religions lose their ability to turn or rebuke undead, and instead they will gain a new granted power at 1st, 4th, 7th, etc. levels.
This extension of granted powers for each domain would require a fair amount of work. However, it could be possible to put together a web resource with ideas for various domains, pantheons, and deities. (Note: WotC owns copyright for the deities for their published works, so it would probably not be legal to create derivative works without permission.)[/INDENT]

For a quick example, I randomly chose the Fire domain from the SRD. I encourage others to contribute ideas for other domains.

The usual granted power for Fire clerics is to turn water creatures as a normal cleric turns undead, and to rebuke fire creatures as a normal (evil) cleric rebukes undead. It makes sense (in this system) to give them this ability instead of (not in addition to) the usual undead turning abilities.

Also, a Fire cleric can use spontaneous casting for spells like Burning Hands, Produce Flame, etc. rather than the usual heal and harm type spells.

To make up for the loss of normal undead control abilities, the Fire domain will add the following special abilities. At 1st, 4th, 7th, etc. levels, the cleric will have the option to choose any one of these abilities, providing he or she meets the requirements listed for each.

Fire Resistance (no prerequisite) – The cleric gains damage reduction 2/- against heat- and fire-based attacks and damage. This applies to both normal and magical fire. If an attack does fire-based damage in addition to other damage, this ability applies only to the fire-based portion.

Improved Fire Resistance (requires Fire Resistance) – As Fire Resistance, except the damage reduction is increased to 5/-.

Fire Immunity (requires Improved Fire Resistance) – The cleric is able to ignore all damage from normal fires. Magically created or sustained fires still do damage, as modified by the cleric’s Fire Resistance abilities.

Cold Resistance (no prerequisite) – The cleric gains the ability to generate heat internally. This provides the cleric with the effect of damage resistance 2/magic against damage from non-magical cold. Even in extreme cold situations, the cleric reduces damage from cold by two points each time he or she fails a Fortitude check.

Elemental Companion (Fire) (requires 7th level Fire cleric) – The cleric is granted a minor elemental companion. This will be some intelligent fire creature of low level (CR 4 or so), such as an Azer or Flamebrother Salamander. The companion will be as loyal to the cleric as possible, given its alignment. It will fight for the cleric within its capabilities, and can be trusted for duties and missions. Summoning and dismissing the companion is similar to the way an SRD paladin summons and dismisses a special mount.

Improved Elemental Companion (Fire) (requires Elemental Companion, 13th level Fire cleric) – The cleric is granted a major elemental companion. This will be some highly intelligent fire creature of medium level (CR 8 or so), such as an Average Salamander, higher level Azer, etc. The cleric can summon and control this companion as described in Elemental Companion ability.

Flameform (requires Fire Immunity, 13th level Fire cleric) – Once per day, the cleric can transform his body and equipment into a fire form for up to 10 minutes. The cleric retains normal hit points, but can not cast spells that require verbal, somatic, or material components (other than focus component). The cleric gains the movement and special abilities of a fire elemental, including fire immunity, cold vulnerability, damage reduction 3/-, and burn. He or she can attack using the fire elemental’s slam attack (damage according to creature size).

Control Fire (no prerequisites) – Up to three times per day, the cleric can affect small fires, such as candles, lamps, stoves, or campfires. He or she can cause them to shrink and gutter, or flare up. For very small flames, the fire may go out entirely. Generally the effect is not able to cause significant damage except to the unwary.

Shower of Sparks (requires Control Fire) – Up to three times per day, the cleric can cause a small to moderate sized fire to emit a shower of sparks and embers in all directions. The fire affected must be large enough to support this, such as a good-sized campfire, stove, or small bonfire. Any flammable material within 3 meters will have to save (DC 12) or catch on fire. Individuals whose clothes catch fire will have to spend the next round extinguishing the sparks, or they will start taking damage.

Flame Whip (requires Shower of Sparks, 10th level Fire cleric) – Once per day, the cleric can summon a flame whip from a nearby fire source. The fire must be large enough to support this, such as a good-sized campfire, stove, or larger. (E.g., a small brazier or lamp is not enough.) The flame whip persists for up to 4 rounds, and has a range of 3 meters from the fire it was summoned from. It can attack a different target each round, using the cleric’s BAB (and multiple attacks as appropriate) and doing 1d8+2 fire damage plus burn effect.
#2
zombiegleemax
Aug 15, 2005 23:39:51 It's an interesting concept to make clerics more focused towards a particularly deity... but instead of completely rewriting a core class, you might consider creating a prestige class to fill some of these niches.

Secondly, clerics are widely considered one of the more powerful classes (decent hit dice, moderate base attack, two good saves, heavy armor with shields, decent weapon selection, full-spellcasting progression, in addition with domains they can also cast more spells per day than a wizard). These additions makes a cleric even more powerful by a substantial amount.

You need to take away some of the cleric's powers (lessen spells per day, reduce armor proficiencies, or something) if you give them extra abilities and more potent spontaneous casting.
#3
gilean_dup
Aug 16, 2005 8:31:35 A good variant, taking into account how conservative it is. One nitpick: Damage reduction format is not applicable to elemental resistance. The correct format: Resistance to fire 5.

I'll post a link to this thread from the UA forum.
#4
kesuk2k5
Aug 21, 2005 23:20:48 The granted domain powers and the spells within it work fine because the individual priest finds his own way to use them as appropriate. A priest of Pelor uses his Strength domain power to help remove fallen rubble from those trapped within it, while a priest of Kord uses his Strength domain power to win a wrestling match. The domains are different from other domains in granted power, but each religion's priests find fitting ways to apply the benefit. The domain spells are granted as an additional bonus, but the cleric still has freedom of choice when choosing which of the two per level to prepare. The cleric is not allowed to spontaneously cast the domain spells because they are not part of his regular spell assortment; they are an "as-given" benefit. The domain structure does not need mechanical changes to encompass dogma, it ends up being more editorial work for the same payoff.
#5
crashy75
Aug 23, 2005 21:32:24 I think this is an interesting idea. I really like it in fact. However, I’m leery about balance issues regarding Spontaneous casting of domain spells. Some domain spells are better than others at any given level. I'm sure somewhere along the line something will be broken. Still, I like the idea...
#6
zombiegleemax
Aug 24, 2005 10:57:15 I don't know, it's a clever idea. I'll give you that.

But to say that the Magic and Death Domains don't pretty much lay out what a cleric's deity's really like seems a bit of a stretch.

Plus, I hesitate to endorse this because the cleric is easily the most perfect PC class in the PHB. Not perfect in the sense of power but in the sense of steady flow of capability tied to balance. There's nothing I like more than a straight cleric, I tell you.

As in terms of "making up" it seems to me that capacity to turn and rebuke fire creatures and water creatures seems to more than make up for the loss of undead control. Seeing as you get to have your cake and eat it too. Undead are tough, and the point of taking a cleric or Paladin is that they specialize in their termination. I find it hard to justify this wide array of granted powers that replace and then exceed the original potency of being a good 'ol undead beatstick.

I can endorse the spontaneous burning hands spells, but flame strikes make me uneasy.

All in all, this is a clever idea to make a cleric more of a symbol of his deity rather than a corporeal vessel, and as such, these abilities seem much more suited for a PrC or perhaps a whole new class. This would be more interesting I think if it was more along the lines of a Favored Soul.

Of course this may all be biased, I do love my clerics just the way they are right now.

Cheers.
#7
capfalcon
Aug 25, 2005 17:11:24 I think that this is interesting and it adds a lot of flavor for clerics, who are almost identical no matter what they choose, but it would get kinda broken if you got two domains and could choose 2 powers at each level. I would recommend using this, but a cleric only getting one domain. Otherwise, CoDzilla would become Czilla and would rise from his watery sleep and cause mayhem to all who would stand in its way.
#8
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2005 15:05:03 I think your idea is very good. I have played around in the past with providing more deity-specific powers to clerics (not domain-specific, but the idea is similar), but I had not thought about replacing some of the perhaps less relevant powers (e.g. turn undead or spontaneous casting for neutral clerics) for these other powers.

As a minor comment on your specific example, i believe that the fire domain should not be able to grant both (or a choice of) fire resistance and cold resistance. Compared to the "neutral" being that is equally affected by both, the fire-domain cleric should probably be resistant to fire, and if anything *more* affected by cold. I understand your idea behind the heat generation, but since we're talking about a human being here, if he already generates heat, then he should be even more affected by fire than others since he would reach a heat-sensitivity threshold faster - unless he is resistant to both heat and cold... Just a thought.
#9
zombiegleemax
Aug 31, 2005 22:54:12 I like the Spontaneous Casting portion of this but have a concern regarding granted powers. Every cleric will have two domains, some will have three due to feats or prestige classes. Given at least two domains, how will you keep the granted powers balanced?
#10
the_one_true_shea_dup
Sep 04, 2005 1:19:54 First - delete the "cleric" spell list from your memory.
second - use the spontanious domain casting for one domain.
third - make the "bonus domain" feat non-epic and grant the domain power.
fourth - top down more "diety presence"

Basically,
Clerics get two domains to start with. One of them is spontanious, and always will be. As they level they can take more domains, and gain more domain powers. This actually lowers the cleric's total power level, but the fourth component =
"Your god says you need this spell today"
"But its not on my domain lists"
"Yeah, your god says you gonna need it"
"But... wait... fire resistance?"
"And roll initiative as the fire elementals attack!"

I playtested this with a player who I allowed to "dual-class" cleric paladin. My paladins usually get a domain for the domain power and the spontanious casting. (I think Paladins are underpowered, and I really like the spontanious domain casting as opposed to healing ). She would actually RP praying to her god for specific 'miracles.' It was beautiful. Katie did a great job with Aria chosen of Thalia.

At my prodding another DM let one of his players make a Garl Cleric this way. He laughed and did that little finger rub when anyone asked for healing. Simply put healing wasnt on his list - but sacrifice enough GP and Garl will give you anything you need.

oh and ummm, why does your powerlist stop at tenth level? I can understand not going epic but... base classes usually go to 20.
#11
snakefing
Oct 01, 2005 11:36:43 It has been a while since I posted this article, so I’ll try to respond to all your kind comments in one place.

Many people remarked on the question of keeping the cleric’s power balanced. This is already one of the most powerful base classes – doesn’t this just add more power to clerics? In short, I think the answer is no, but only some serious play testing can find out. I’m working on a campaign setting to try this out, but it does take a while to set this up for all the domains of all the deities.

With the spontaneous casting, I’ve traded the spontaneous cure/inflict spells for spontaneous domain magic. This probably does power up the cleric a bit, since domain spells tend to be more powerful than healing. On the other hand, the loss of readily available healing magic is a major change. With spontaneous cures, the cleric can prepare a load of buff spells and then convert them to healing as needed. Under this system, the cleric will have to choose between healing and buffs – a tradeoff that is familiar to anyone who played previous editions of D&D.

With the extra domain powers, the plan is that the cleric will have to give up something, either spending feats or giving up their turn/rebuke undead abilities. To keep this balanced, the strength of the enhanced domain powers should be chosen appropriately. Generally I favor removing the turn/rebuke ability. To me, it seems that turning undead should be a granted power for appropriate domains, rather than something that all clerics have. What does a cleric of a fire god have to do with undead anyway?

For these reasons, I tried to make the example domain powers interesting and useful but not overly powerful except in limited circumstances. Designing the extra domain powers is the hardest part. You have to keep in mind how the domain powers granted will interact with the domain spells and the overall usefulness of the domain. Currently not all domains are created equal; you could use this to make some of the domains more interesting or balanced relative to the others.

If all this still seems unbalanced, I might consider also removing the bonus domain spells from the cleric. They’d give up one extra spell per level, their ability to spontaneously cure, and their turn undead ability, in return for the flexibility to use the spells as needed, plus the extra domain abilities.

For clerics with multiple domains, they would still only get one additional granted power every three levels, chosen from any of their domains. They would also get the spontaneous casting for any of their domains, as well as the normal granted power. This gives them a pretty nice selection of spontaneous spells, but when choosing their extra domain powers they might do best to concentrate on just one of their domains.

I would consider making something like this into a prestige class. However, the balance questions become even hairier, because the clerics get to keep all their usual feats, undead turning, and spontaneous cures, along with all the new benefits. One might even think about making this into an alternative base class, which would allow you to rebalance things by changing the spell progression, saves, or hit points too.

My main goal is to make the cleric character more reflective of the deity in question. The current system works well enough for clerics of Good or Evil, but often seems to be a misfit for clerics of other domains. If you want to play an undead-bashing priest, or a healing priest, feel free - but with this variant you'll do best if you choose a deity that is associated with positive energy or healing.
#12
gilean_dup
Oct 21, 2005 2:07:29
My main goal is to make the cleric character more reflective of the deity in question. The current system works well enough for clerics of Good or Evil, but often seems to be a misfit for clerics of other domains. If you want to play an undead-bashing priest, or a healing priest, feel free - but with this variant you'll do best if you choose a deity that is associated with positive energy or healing.

Exactly. You'll be getting a link in my forums, in this thread, to be more specific.
This is going to the right direction. Now, if the other class features could be fixed...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 snakefing Aug 07, 2005 19:43:50	One of the best ways to distinguish priests of different gods or pantheons is through their domain spells and abilities. Each domain provides a granted power, which gives the priests of that domain access to special skills and abilities that are specific to their religion. Also, the special domain spell lists and domain spell slots encourage the priests to use magic that is oriented toward their domains. In many ways I feel these abilities don’t go far enough in defining a priesthood according to its deity or ethos. A priestess of Isis really ought to be fundamentally different from a priest of Ra. The differences in domain ought to be evident right across the entire spectrum of their powers and abilities. The current system tends to push clerics toward two broad categories, based on the cure vs. inflict, turn vs. rebuke dichotomy. But a priest of a powerful lawful neutral deity doesn’t fit comfortably into either of these categories. To change this, I propose the following house rules. They are really two separate rules, but I think they work better together. [INDENT]Spontaneous casting – Instead of channeling energy into cure or inflict spells, the cleric can channel energy into an appropriate domain spell (from the domain spell list for the cleric’s domain). This represents the cleric’s higher level of familiarity with the domain spells and the deity’s preferred orientation toward that type of magic. The net effect of this is two-fold. Firstly, cure and inflict magic is going to be more widely available from deities that are oriented toward these types of magic. Secondly, priests will be able have more flexibility to use domain oriented magic, while using their prepared spells for non-domain spells.[/INDENT] [INDENT]Granted powers – Each domain should have a list of additional granted powers. As usual, the cleric gains access to the currently-defined granted powers for his domain. New, additional granted powers might be available by spending a feat for the granted power. Alternatively, you might have the priests of some religions lose their ability to turn or rebuke undead, and instead they will gain a new granted power at 1st, 4th, 7th, etc. levels. This extension of granted powers for each domain would require a fair amount of work. However, it could be possible to put together a web resource with ideas for various domains, pantheons, and deities. (Note: WotC owns copyright for the deities for their published works, so it would probably not be legal to create derivative works without permission.)[/INDENT] For a quick example, I randomly chose the Fire domain from the SRD. I encourage others to contribute ideas for other domains. The usual granted power for Fire clerics is to turn water creatures as a normal cleric turns undead, and to rebuke fire creatures as a normal (evil) cleric rebukes undead. It makes sense (in this system) to give them this ability instead of (not in addition to) the usual undead turning abilities. Also, a Fire cleric can use spontaneous casting for spells like Burning Hands, Produce Flame, etc. rather than the usual heal and harm type spells. To make up for the loss of normal undead control abilities, the Fire domain will add the following special abilities. At 1st, 4th, 7th, etc. levels, the cleric will have the option to choose any one of these abilities, providing he or she meets the requirements listed for each. Fire Resistance (no prerequisite) – The cleric gains damage reduction 2/- against heat- and fire-based attacks and damage. This applies to both normal and magical fire. If an attack does fire-based damage in addition to other damage, this ability applies only to the fire-based portion. Improved Fire Resistance (requires Fire Resistance) – As Fire Resistance, except the damage reduction is increased to 5/-. Fire Immunity (requires Improved Fire Resistance) – The cleric is able to ignore all damage from normal fires. Magically created or sustained fires still do damage, as modified by the cleric’s Fire Resistance abilities. Cold Resistance (no prerequisite) – The cleric gains the ability to generate heat internally. This provides the cleric with the effect of damage resistance 2/magic against damage from non-magical cold. Even in extreme cold situations, the cleric reduces damage from cold by two points each time he or she fails a Fortitude check. Elemental Companion (Fire) (requires 7th level Fire cleric) – The cleric is granted a minor elemental companion. This will be some intelligent fire creature of low level (CR 4 or so), such as an Azer or Flamebrother Salamander. The companion will be as loyal to the cleric as possible, given its alignment. It will fight for the cleric within its capabilities, and can be trusted for duties and missions. Summoning and dismissing the companion is similar to the way an SRD paladin summons and dismisses a special mount. Improved Elemental Companion (Fire) (requires Elemental Companion, 13th level Fire cleric) – The cleric is granted a major elemental companion. This will be some highly intelligent fire creature of medium level (CR 8 or so), such as an Average Salamander, higher level Azer, etc. The cleric can summon and control this companion as described in Elemental Companion ability. Flameform (requires Fire Immunity, 13th level Fire cleric) – Once per day, the cleric can transform his body and equipment into a fire form for up to 10 minutes. The cleric retains normal hit points, but can not cast spells that require verbal, somatic, or material components (other than focus component). The cleric gains the movement and special abilities of a fire elemental, including fire immunity, cold vulnerability, damage reduction 3/-, and burn. He or she can attack using the fire elemental’s slam attack (damage according to creature size). Control Fire (no prerequisites) – Up to three times per day, the cleric can affect small fires, such as candles, lamps, stoves, or campfires. He or she can cause them to shrink and gutter, or flare up. For very small flames, the fire may go out entirely. Generally the effect is not able to cause significant damage except to the unwary. Shower of Sparks (requires Control Fire) – Up to three times per day, the cleric can cause a small to moderate sized fire to emit a shower of sparks and embers in all directions. The fire affected must be large enough to support this, such as a good-sized campfire, stove, or small bonfire. Any flammable material within 3 meters will have to save (DC 12) or catch on fire. Individuals whose clothes catch fire will have to spend the next round extinguishing the sparks, or they will start taking damage. Flame Whip (requires Shower of Sparks, 10th level Fire cleric) – Once per day, the cleric can summon a flame whip from a nearby fire source. The fire must be large enough to support this, such as a good-sized campfire, stove, or larger. (E.g., a small brazier or lamp is not enough.) The flame whip persists for up to 4 rounds, and has a range of 3 meters from the fire it was summoned from. It can attack a different target each round, using the cleric’s BAB (and multiple attacks as appropriate) and doing 1d8+2 fire damage plus burn effect.
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 15, 2005 23:39:51	It's an interesting concept to make clerics more focused towards a particularly deity... but instead of completely rewriting a core class, you might consider creating a prestige class to fill some of these niches. Secondly, clerics are widely considered one of the more powerful classes (decent hit dice, moderate base attack, two good saves, heavy armor with shields, decent weapon selection, full-spellcasting progression, in addition with domains they can also cast more spells per day than a wizard). These additions makes a cleric even more powerful by a substantial amount. You need to take away some of the cleric's powers (lessen spells per day, reduce armor proficiencies, or something) if you give them extra abilities and more potent spontaneous casting.
#3 gilean_dup Aug 16, 2005 8:31:35	A good variant, taking into account how conservative it is. One nitpick: Damage reduction format is not applicable to elemental resistance. The correct format: Resistance to fire 5. I'll post a link to this thread from the UA forum.
#4 kesuk2k5 Aug 21, 2005 23:20:48	The granted domain powers and the spells within it work fine because the individual priest finds his own way to use them as appropriate. A priest of Pelor uses his Strength domain power to help remove fallen rubble from those trapped within it, while a priest of Kord uses his Strength domain power to win a wrestling match. The domains are different from other domains in granted power, but each religion's priests find fitting ways to apply the benefit. The domain spells are granted as an additional bonus, but the cleric still has freedom of choice when choosing which of the two per level to prepare. The cleric is not allowed to spontaneously cast the domain spells because they are not part of his regular spell assortment; they are an "as-given" benefit. The domain structure does not need mechanical changes to encompass dogma, it ends up being more editorial work for the same payoff.
#5 crashy75 Aug 23, 2005 21:32:24	I think this is an interesting idea. I really like it in fact. However, I’m leery about balance issues regarding Spontaneous casting of domain spells. Some domain spells are better than others at any given level. I'm sure somewhere along the line something will be broken. Still, I like the idea...
#6 zombiegleemax Aug 24, 2005 10:57:15	I don't know, it's a clever idea. I'll give you that. But to say that the Magic and Death Domains don't pretty much lay out what a cleric's deity's really like seems a bit of a stretch. Plus, I hesitate to endorse this because the cleric is easily the most perfect PC class in the PHB. Not perfect in the sense of power but in the sense of steady flow of capability tied to balance. There's nothing I like more than a straight cleric, I tell you. As in terms of "making up" it seems to me that capacity to turn and rebuke fire creatures and water creatures seems to more than make up for the loss of undead control. Seeing as you get to have your cake and eat it too. Undead are tough, and the point of taking a cleric or Paladin is that they specialize in their termination. I find it hard to justify this wide array of granted powers that replace and then exceed the original potency of being a good 'ol undead beatstick. I can endorse the spontaneous burning hands spells, but flame strikes make me uneasy. All in all, this is a clever idea to make a cleric more of a symbol of his deity rather than a corporeal vessel, and as such, these abilities seem much more suited for a PrC or perhaps a whole new class. This would be more interesting I think if it was more along the lines of a Favored Soul. Of course this may all be biased, I do love my clerics just the way they are right now. Cheers.
#7 capfalcon Aug 25, 2005 17:11:24	I think that this is interesting and it adds a lot of flavor for clerics, who are almost identical no matter what they choose, but it would get kinda broken if you got two domains and could choose 2 powers at each level. I would recommend using this, but a cleric only getting one domain. Otherwise, CoDzilla would become Czilla and would rise from his watery sleep and cause mayhem to all who would stand in its way.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2005 15:05:03	I think your idea is very good. I have played around in the past with providing more deity-specific powers to clerics (not domain-specific, but the idea is similar), but I had not thought about replacing some of the perhaps less relevant powers (e.g. turn undead or spontaneous casting for neutral clerics) for these other powers. As a minor comment on your specific example, i believe that the fire domain should not be able to grant both (or a choice of) fire resistance and cold resistance. Compared to the "neutral" being that is equally affected by both, the fire-domain cleric should probably be resistant to fire, and if anything more affected by cold. I understand your idea behind the heat generation, but since we're talking about a human being here, if he already generates heat, then he should be even more affected by fire than others since he would reach a heat-sensitivity threshold faster - unless he is resistant to both heat and cold... Just a thought.
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 31, 2005 22:54:12	I like the Spontaneous Casting portion of this but have a concern regarding granted powers. Every cleric will have two domains, some will have three due to feats or prestige classes. Given at least two domains, how will you keep the granted powers balanced?
#10 the_one_true_shea_dup Sep 04, 2005 1:19:54	First - delete the "cleric" spell list from your memory. second - use the spontanious domain casting for one domain. third - make the "bonus domain" feat non-epic and grant the domain power. fourth - top down more "diety presence" Basically, Clerics get two domains to start with. One of them is spontanious, and always will be. As they level they can take more domains, and gain more domain powers. This actually lowers the cleric's total power level, but the fourth component = "Your god says you need this spell today" "But its not on my domain lists" "Yeah, your god says you gonna need it" "But... wait... fire resistance?" "And roll initiative as the fire elementals attack!" I playtested this with a player who I allowed to "dual-class" cleric paladin. My paladins usually get a domain for the domain power and the spontanious casting. (I think Paladins are underpowered, and I really like the spontanious domain casting as opposed to healing ). She would actually RP praying to her god for specific 'miracles.' It was beautiful. Katie did a great job with Aria chosen of Thalia. At my prodding another DM let one of his players make a Garl Cleric this way. He laughed and did that little finger rub when anyone asked for healing. Simply put healing wasnt on his list - but sacrifice enough GP and Garl will give you anything you need. oh and ummm, why does your powerlist stop at tenth level? I can understand not going epic but... base classes usually go to 20.
#11 snakefing Oct 01, 2005 11:36:43	It has been a while since I posted this article, so I’ll try to respond to all your kind comments in one place. Many people remarked on the question of keeping the cleric’s power balanced. This is already one of the most powerful base classes – doesn’t this just add more power to clerics? In short, I think the answer is no, but only some serious play testing can find out. I’m working on a campaign setting to try this out, but it does take a while to set this up for all the domains of all the deities. With the spontaneous casting, I’ve traded the spontaneous cure/inflict spells for spontaneous domain magic. This probably does power up the cleric a bit, since domain spells tend to be more powerful than healing. On the other hand, the loss of readily available healing magic is a major change. With spontaneous cures, the cleric can prepare a load of buff spells and then convert them to healing as needed. Under this system, the cleric will have to choose between healing and buffs – a tradeoff that is familiar to anyone who played previous editions of D&D. With the extra domain powers, the plan is that the cleric will have to give up something, either spending feats or giving up their turn/rebuke undead abilities. To keep this balanced, the strength of the enhanced domain powers should be chosen appropriately. Generally I favor removing the turn/rebuke ability. To me, it seems that turning undead should be a granted power for appropriate domains, rather than something that all clerics have. What does a cleric of a fire god have to do with undead anyway? For these reasons, I tried to make the example domain powers interesting and useful but not overly powerful except in limited circumstances. Designing the extra domain powers is the hardest part. You have to keep in mind how the domain powers granted will interact with the domain spells and the overall usefulness of the domain. Currently not all domains are created equal; you could use this to make some of the domains more interesting or balanced relative to the others. If all this still seems unbalanced, I might consider also removing the bonus domain spells from the cleric. They’d give up one extra spell per level, their ability to spontaneously cure, and their turn undead ability, in return for the flexibility to use the spells as needed, plus the extra domain abilities. For clerics with multiple domains, they would still only get one additional granted power every three levels, chosen from any of their domains. They would also get the spontaneous casting for any of their domains, as well as the normal granted power. This gives them a pretty nice selection of spontaneous spells, but when choosing their extra domain powers they might do best to concentrate on just one of their domains. I would consider making something like this into a prestige class. However, the balance questions become even hairier, because the clerics get to keep all their usual feats, undead turning, and spontaneous cures, along with all the new benefits. One might even think about making this into an alternative base class, which would allow you to rebalance things by changing the spell progression, saves, or hit points too. My main goal is to make the cleric character more reflective of the deity in question. The current system works well enough for clerics of Good or Evil, but often seems to be a misfit for clerics of other domains. If you want to play an undead-bashing priest, or a healing priest, feel free - but with this variant you'll do best if you choose a deity that is associated with positive energy or healing.
#12 gilean_dup Oct 21, 2005 2:07:29	My main goal is to make the cleric character more reflective of the deity in question. The current system works well enough for clerics of Good or Evil, but often seems to be a misfit for clerics of other domains. If you want to play an undead-bashing priest, or a healing priest, feel free - but with this variant you'll do best if you choose a deity that is associated with positive energy or healing. Exactly. You'll be getting a link in my forums, in this thread, to be more specific. This is going to the right direction. Now, if the other class features could be fixed...