Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tos_shai_hulud May 11, 2008 2:17:49	Anyone have an estimate on how much an item that grants Expansion (2 size categories) as a permanent effect would cost? Here is my estimate: Expansion is a 1st level power, but must be manifested at a minimum of 7th level in order to get 2 size category increases. It is usually personal range only. When spells go from touch to mass, the power level tends to increase by 3 or 4, so if we used that same principle for going from personal to targeted, we can conclude a potential increase in level of 3 or 4. To be on the safe side, let's say 4. So, that makes the power a 5th level power, requiring a minimum of 15 power points to manifest 2 size category increases at one round per level. If we use the magic item cost estimate table, we get 5 x 15 x 2000 x 4 = 600,000gp. Then, since it is an epic item, do I multiply that cost by 10? So 6,000,000gp? Does that seem right? Too high? Too low?
#2 tos_shai_hulud May 11, 2008 14:54:42	Hmm, checking the rules again, it looks like the x10 is only for epic weapons with enhancement bonuses of +6 or higher or epic armor with the same. So, 600,000gp would be the cost of the item. Now it seems like it might be too low in price. Should I stick with the 6,000,000gp? Or is 600,000 a better estimate? Or should it be something in between?
#3 tos_shai_hulud May 11, 2008 15:15:45	An alternate estimation method: It grants a +4 Size Bonus to Strength, a -4 Size penalty to Dexterity, and two size categories as a permanent effect. Perhaps that is not as powerful as I was initially thinking, and my estimate of 600,000gp is even too high! I mean, Permanency Enlarge Person does one size category increase for 3,050gp. So, perhaps just Effective Power Level x Effective Manifester Level x 2000 x 4? That would be 4 x 7 x 2000 x 4 = 224,000gp for the permanent item that grants +2 size categories. And what about an item that grants +3 size categories (Taking a Large creature to Colossal)?
#4 tequila_sunrise May 11, 2008 19:40:26	You'll probably get more responses if you post in the Epic forum, but I'll try to help here. I don't have my books on me so I can't look up Expansion, so I'll ask you: does it do anything other than increase the manifestor's size and grant a Str boost? And the Str bonus is typed as a size bonus, right? As a general rule, spells and powers with ranges of Personal are not meant to be available to non-casters, period. See True Strike for the classic example. On the other hand, if Expansion only increases your size and adds +4 Str it might not be a problem as a magical/psionic item--maybe even a non-epic one. Assuming that Expansion only grants 2 size categories and +4 Str I'd say to start with the basic formula (manifestor level X power level X 1,000), and then multiply that by...something. Sorry I'm not more experienced with making custom items, but it's more of an art than a science anyway. I'd say start with a X100 multiple just to test the waters, and then adjust it if necessary. (So 70,000 gp to start) TS