Would we have, if we could have afforded it? I expect so, but after much consideration I would want us to inform our DM first rather than keeping it a secret. The game should be fun for the DM as well as for the players, after all. While we often think we're playing "against" the DM, more often than not he's on our side, keeping things balanced and enjoyable. Springing a superweapon on him would have spoiled the balance.
A DM who knows what to expect can make the game even more fun, devising a deliciously wicked challenge where the weapon can be used. Or, a DM could arrange for such a thing to be "found" and let the players figure out what it does, and if they survive their "research," the DM could then arrange for an especially challenging opportunity to use it.
Having said that, we did have fun imagining it. Just think: a ranged weapon, only sloppy aim required, guaranteed destruction, with no save. What could be better during a harrowing encounter that would otherwise spell doom for the whole party?
I was inspired by the comment concerning a portable hole and a bag of holding on page 264 of the Dungeon Master's Guide:
If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.
But, to quote the Ninja: "The look on your face...is priceless!"
Take a set or ring gates, place it in such a way that something falling through one goes out the other above the first one thus creating an infinite falling loop. Now, put it in a vacuum. You know have infinite acceleration (previously impossible because anything that was accelerating due to gravity would eventually hit whatever was the source of the gravity). Now, place another ring gate from a separate set beneath the lower one from the first set. All this requires to my knowledge is a way to allow an object not to count for the weight limit of the ring gates. I believe a way around this was discovered, though I remember it not.
A speck of dust is then dropped into the first ring gate, the vacuum is then established, and a wizard stands by targeting a dispel magic at the lower original ring gate. Once the speck of dust has achieved ridiculous speed the wizard dispels the gate and the speck flies into the second one at some ridiculous speed. I won't go into what happens if it has time to break the speed of light because, frankly, I don't understand what would happen. The airburst and heat caused by even a speck of dust exiting the other ring gate in the pair would be enough to kill anything in a fairly large area (probably larger than fairly large).
Cost:
Portable hole: 20,000 gp
Type 1 bag of holding: 2,500 gp*
Masterwork construction: 100 gp
Destroying the DM's carefully crafted encounter: Priceless.
There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there's Optimizer's Excess. Don't leave home without it.
Portable hole: 20,000 gp
Type 1 bag of holding: 2,500 gp*
Masterwork construction: 100 gp
22600 gold for such a weapon is a lot. Unless it takes out an all important group of mages or something equally as powerful, you get any return on your investment. The thing to remember about weapons of war is that they are cheap (relatively) and cause lots of destruction. I'm not sure on the exact cost, but i would imagine a single catapult would be around 1/10 this cost, and gives more bang for the buck.
Though, i do have to commend the effort.
The second flaw I see is that you're going to have a hell of a time learning how to fire an arrow with a 15 lb. arrowhead. Bags of holding weigh a lot, even when they're empty.
The third flaw isn't so much a flaw as a limitation. Obviously, you have to use a decent amount of friction holding the tube in place when you fire it, otherwise it might slip back into the hole when you fire it. This places a considerable amount of risk on you when you're testing these things. Assuming you have the tube secured against inertia when you let go of the bowstring, there's a decent chance that it will fail upon impact, depending on the surrounding environment, and what you're shooting at. This might very well just stick if you shoot, say, an ooze. If you miss, and hit water, it might not trigger. At close ranges (say, within the first few range increments) you're going to be shooting on a fairly flat ballistic arc. If you miss, the arrow might not hit the ground for over 50' after it passes the opponent.
All of these things point away from this actually qualifying as a superweapon. One character won't have the cash to build one of these things until level 8. By then, just use magic. This is an inventive way of using an old combo, but I don't think it's to the point of being useful yet.
Communication is the key. Always. Always talk.
few problems.
1st.: It sends them to the astral plane, it does not automatically destroy
them. It is entirely possible that they might survive and return later.
Any "big, bad guy" that you're fighting when you have enough
resources to spend 22,600 g.p., is fairly likely to survive and return
at a later date.
2nd.: Is obviously the cost and potential rarity of the required items. In
campaigns that are not high magic, acquiring magical items becomes
increasingly more difficult.
3rd.: There are beings that can freely cross dimensional barriers to the
Astral plane. To these beings, the item that you've created is at
best a temporary inconvenience that is overcome in their following
action.
A better bet for the effect that you're striving for would be to use a similar arrow contraption, and make or acquire a "tiny" staff of power or staff of the
magi. When the arrow makes impact, the staff breaks causing a retributive
strike. This is an almost completely unsurvivable option.
In a Retributive Strike:
All charges (up to 50 charges per staff) in the staff are instantly
released in a 30-foot radius. All within 2 squares (10-feet) of the broken
staff take damage equal to 8 x the number of charges in the staff, Those 3
or 4 squares (15-feet to 20-feet) away take 6 x the number of charges in
the staff in damage, and those 5 or 6 squares (25-feet to 30-feet) distant
take 4 x the number of charges in the staff. All those effected can make
DC:17 Reflex saves to reduce the damage to half.
Since you wouldn't be anywhere near the explosion, you wouldn't have
to be concerned with the 50% chance of being sent to another plane
(does not say which plane), or being utterly destroyed.
While probably cheaper than a nuclear weapon of similar explosive radius, the cost of 211,100 for the staff plus the masterwork arrow puts this at a prohibitively high price for a tactical weapon. And given the danger of accidental triggering in a fall, logically restrict its' use to high level campaigns facing vastly powerful beings, possibly with a horde of minions surrounding them.
Ultimately, the only "super-weapon" out there is the mind. *L* And that comes free to every player, and character.
The first flaw I see is that it doesn't destroy anything other than the weapon. What you have is a ranged, 10' burst Plane Shift that only sends people to the Astral Plane.
Well, we assumed, perhaps wrongly, that because the DMG says both the hole and bag are destroyed in the process, then so would anything else sucked in.
The second flaw I see is that you're going to have a hell of a time learning how to fire an arrow with a 15 lb. arrowhead. Bags of holding weigh a lot, even when they're empty.
As shown in the picture (compare the size of the bag to the diameter of the arrow shaft), it's a diminutive bag, which doesn't weigh much at all. Even if it weighs a pound or so, it's not difficult for the burly barbarian to fire it with a greatbow.
The third flaw isn't so much a flaw as a limitation. Obviously, you have to use a decent amount of friction holding the tube in place when you fire it, otherwise it might slip back into the hole when you fire it.
Please look again at the diagram. The tube should slide easily through the bushing. The tube is held in place with a wooden stick that penetrates the tube and the cage staves. This stick breaks when the arrowhead strikes something, allowing the tube to be pushed into the bag. As an added safety measure, there's a metal holding pin to hold the tube in place while you're carrying the device around so it doesn't go off if you drop it on the ground accidentally. You remove the pin before firing.
All of these things point away from this actually qualifying as a superweapon. One character won't have the cash to build one of these things until level 8.
Actually most of the flaws you perceive resulted from not understanding the design; perhaps I should have clarified things. Also, money wouldn't have been a problem in our case because at the time I designed it, we were thinking of pooling our resources to buy the required components.
I had hoped people would comment on my short essay about the ethics of creating a superweapon without telling the DM. The weapon description itself was more of an interesting footnote.
-Alex
The first flaw I see is that it doesn't destroy anything other than the weapon.
I must say that that is a very good point. With some rather simple modifications, it could be made into a grenade. The main problem with it is its expense. The cost is really prohibitive in that you could either use it against a BBEG, who would come back very easily, or the infamous Tarrasque, who will then die a lonely death.
My personal favourite is the meteor gun (I don't know where the original thread is).
Take a set or ring gates, place it in such a way that something falling through one goes out the other above the first one thus creating an infinite falling loop. Now, put it in a vacuum. You know have infinite acceleration (previously impossible because anything that was accelerating due to gravity would eventually hit whatever was the source of the gravity). Now, place another ring gate from a separate set beneath the lower one from the first set. All this requires to my knowledge is a way to allow an object not to count for the weight limit of the ring gates. I believe a way around this was discovered, though I remember it not.
A speck of dust is then dropped into the first ring gate, the vacuum is then established, and a wizard stands by targeting a dispel magic at the lower original ring gate. Once the speck of dust has achieved ridiculous speed the wizard dispels the gate and the speck flies into the second one at some ridiculous speed. I won't go into what happens if it has time to break the speed of light because, frankly, I don't understand what would happen. The airburst and heat caused by even a speck of dust exiting the other ring gate in the pair would be enough to kill anything in a fairly large area (probably larger than fairly large).
I wonder where the rules to this kind of high mathematics-physics in D&D would be? If there is such rules in D&D, I'd love to see them. Finally, In other words, Meteor shower, anyone? :D
But if you interpret Major Creation literally, then you can create antimatter. Anti-iridium to be specific. Iridium has a density of 22.65 g/cm³. A ninth lv wizard can create 9 cubic feet of it. 9 cubic feet is 2.7432 cubic meters. That is 2743200 cubic centimeters.
Each gram of antimatter creates energy equal to a 15 kiloton nuclear detonation.
That’s 932002200 Hiroshimas. The damage is equal to 2d6/pound. One pound is 453.59237 grams. There are about three thousand pounds in a ton. So that’s 6000d6 per ton.
6000*1000*932002200=...
5592013200000000d6, or about 19572046200000000 damage.
From a ninth level wizard.
Well, we assumed, perhaps wrongly, that because the DMG says both the hole and bag are destroyed in the process, then so would anything else sucked in.
As it says "The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, the portable hole and bag of holding being destroyed in the process." it seems clear that the creatures are not intended to be destroyed.
As shown in the picture (compare the size of the bag to the diameter of the arrow shaft), it's a diminutive bag, which doesn't weigh much at all. Even if it weighs a pound or so, it's not difficult for the burly barbarian to fire it with a greatbow.
I see. Could you point me to weights for wondrous items sized for different creatures? I must have missed it.
Please look again at the diagram. The tube should slide easily through the bushing. The tube is held in place with a wooden stick that penetrates the tube and the cage staves. This stick breaks when the arrowhead strikes something, allowing the tube to be pushed into the bag. As an added safety measure, there's a metal holding pin to hold the tube in place while you're carrying the device around so it doesn't go off if you drop it on the ground accidentally. You remove the pin before firing.
This removes the problems of misfiring, but retains the problems of the arrow being a dud. And as I said before, generally an arrow that misses isn't hitting the ground for quite a ways past the target.
Actually most of the flaws you perceive resulted from not understanding the design; perhaps I should have clarified things. Also, money wouldn't have been a problem in our case because at the time I designed it, we were thinking of pooling our resources to buy the required components.
So far, I've seen you refute one and a half flaws. Maybe less if the DM should also ask to see your table for weights of smaller wondrous items. You have also diminished my note of the danger this weapon poses to the wielder, while disregarding the increased risk of failure to execute.
I had hoped people would comment on my short essay about the ethics of creating a superweapon without telling the DM. The weapon description itself was more of an interesting footnote.
For my part, I would look upon this as metagaming, at the very least. Yes these are all easily observable effects in-game, but if you discuss this with the other players, I'd prefer you did so in character. At the very least, this prevents you from designing and building this thing before I have a chance to consider the ramifications. Ethics don't really play into this as much as courtesy and respect. This is no different than if your DM didn't read the boards, and you built Pun-Pun. Completely legal, but the DM has some right to know what you're doing with long-term plans before they come to fruition.
Superweapons are a source of power; power is neutral, the ability to mold your environment as you see fit. It is the will that determines whether a tool is used for good or evil. The problem with superweapons is that the destructive power they grant allows even a few (or just one!) individual of evil design to cause massive destruction. On the other hand, can scientific progress, for good or evil, truly be stopped? If one considers, evil government likely have no compunction against researching superweapons for their own ends. Thus, does that not obligate good people to assume that power so they can at least counter the influence of evil ones with a threat of mutual annihilation, as opposed to allowing the world to fall to tyranny? What of defenses against such weapons?
Ultimately, it is a question that does not have a quick or easy answer. One must evaluate each situation as it arises, depending on the particular variables of the individual dilemma.
But if you interpret Major Creation literally, then you can create antimatter. Anti-iridium to be specific.
Again with the antimatter? Strangely, if I interpret Major creation "literally" one cannot create "anti-metal." Even if I interpret it liberally, antimatter is out of the question. The problem lies with the Material Component requirement; A tiny piece of matter of the same sort of item you plan to create. Where did you get the antimatter for the MC? How did you carry it? Won't it destroy your hand when you pull it from the very specialized container in you spell component pouch?
As a last point, the spell specifically creates some form of matter. Since by definition anti-matter is NOT matter, you cannot use a spell which creates matter to create anti-matter.Even though I find the bag of holding/portable hole trick amusing, I would treat it like the anti-matter problem. I would not allow it to disrupt a game.
My personal favourite is the meteor gun (I don't know where the original thread is).
Take a set or ring gates, place it in such a way that something falling through one goes out the other above the first one thus creating an infinite falling loop. Now, put it in a vacuum. You know have infinite acceleration (previously impossible because anything that was accelerating due to gravity would eventually hit whatever was the source of the gravity). Now, place another ring gate from a separate set beneath the lower one from the first set. All this requires to my knowledge is a way to allow an object not to count for the weight limit of the ring gates. I believe a way around this was discovered, though I remember it not.
A speck of dust is then dropped into the first ring gate, the vacuum is then established, and a wizard stands by targeting a dispel magic at the lower original ring gate. Once the speck of dust has achieved ridiculous speed the wizard dispels the gate and the speck flies into the second one at some ridiculous speed. I won't go into what happens if it has time to break the speed of light because, frankly, I don't understand what would happen. The airburst and heat caused by even a speck of dust exiting the other ring gate in the pair would be enough to kill anything in a fairly large area (probably larger than fairly large).
My brother and I were talking about the various ways of using this. We were thinking, hydrogen bombs are created by two fission explosions forcing a fusion of two hydrogen atoms, right? So, assuming this world can't manage to isolate hydrogen atoms, let's use two small rocks. Of adamantine.
You have two of these infinite-acceleration loops going. Separate, beside each other, location is really irrelevant. However, the ring gates that they fall into (the third gates in either loop system) would be aiming toward each other, with said two small rocks (of adamantine). You let the loops run for a while to pick up some massive speed and velocity (say, a whole 24 hours), and then you dispel gate two in both loop systems simultaneously. Little rocks smash into each other with all of this accumulated force.
Would this be the D&D equivalent to a hydrogen bomb, only bigger? If so, what happens if you can use major creation to create antimatter to force it into a fusion with matter?
I dunno, my brain hurts. I almost hope somebody will tell me I'm wrong. The image in my head is after the character pulls this off, he instantly appears in a white room where God is saying "You've been a very, very bad boy!"
-Shadow Mage (bombing things, just another service offered...)
Nice, but fails to kill anyone.
But if you interpret Major Creation literally, then you can create antimatter.
As long as this literal interpretation of Major Creation allows you, the PC, to create something that he cannot describe, imagine, or understand (in all likelihood). This would be an example of METAgaming.
As for the meteor shower, the DM would be well within his/her rights to claim the system fails, because, after all, it would take a fair amount of work to even guess how it might work in real life.
Gravitational flux does not propagate instantaneously (after all, according to Einstein, nothing does). As our object (the dust particle) falls from one ring to the other, the gravitational flux from its original position will affect the particle in it's new position. Now, clearly the gravitational effect of a particle of dust is irrelevant. Until, of course, we start to near the speed of light, and the mass increases by m =m0/(1-v^2/c^2), and begins to increase. Additionally, observed acceleration decreases, hence the theoretical speed limit of c. But now we have a particle of immense mass creating gravitational flux at a variety of positions. You'd be more likely to create a region of immense gravitational flux, centering around the center of the assembly, and end up making a black hole, if the apparatus were allowed to run long enough. I wonder if it would even speed up, though, as the gravitational flux at the top is ~ the same as the gravitational flux at the bottom?
As to the original poster's actual question, I think metagaming to create a doomsday device or superweapon is very questionable. The example you gave is clearly the best of the three in this thread, as it operates on D&D rules and events that characters could fairly easily observe. The shadiest part is the safety, as that starts to quickly smack of more modern systems. It'd be entertaining as a DM to rule that you have to make some Knowledge or Int check to realize the utility of such a system, and if you don't dramatically increase the chances of you accidentally shunting the lot of you into the Astral Plane ;)
But in the final analysis, how much more of an ultimate weapon do we need past Bane Arrows, Power Word: Kill, etc.? So no, in general I'd have to say that trying to create that sort of superweapon is fairly cheesy. I'd hope most DMs would disallow it, and I definitely think doing it without the DM being aware is a Bad Idea (tm).
As far as the speed of gravitational flux, quantum physics strongly suggests that it does indeed have the ability to change instantly. I personally feel that this might be evidence of gravity being related to quantum entanglement in some way, but I digress. It's impossible to test, as we have no way of instantaneously changing either mass or position of an object. These difficulties are compounded by our inability to measure changing gravitational fields with any degree of accuracy whatsoever. I seem to remember hearing about a massive laser-based device that would, hopefully, detect changes in gravity by measuring the warping of the light, but the project's completion is still years away.
Antimatter is only possible by metagaming in the utmost extreme. After all, it cannot exist in a state observable to the characters. A better attempt might be to conjure a vast amount of voidstone, but that seems to be effective against solids alone, rather than all matter.
A 5x5 square has an effective AC of 5. A natural 1 will miss it by, at most, 5 feet. Anyone with a BAB of +4, or better, will only miss on a natural 1. So anyone launching such a weapon would aim toward the square, not any creature within it.
I think the only issues would be a matter of how perfect the pebble fell, initially, and the containment of said vacuum. If the pebble did not fall into the loop perfectly, it's conceivable that it would eventually clip the rim of the ring gate and chaos would ensue (likely long before reaching any appreciable speed). Gravity would eventually correct a minor miscalculation, though. Now, if something were to breach the vacuum these example pebbles were falling in, I'm not sure what would happen exactly. Sudden exposure to atmosphere might just create an "instant-meteor" and make the gates go boom, which would probably be a hefty sized explosion but nothing to rock the foundations of the world.
It's been some time since any in-depth study of physics, gravity, light, and matter specifically, so please correct any misunderstandings I have. Even without the introduction of antimatter (via major creation), it is entirely possible for a smart enough wizard with enough study of gravity, collisions, and gate technology to come up with a way to create that particular apparatus. Especially given the longevity of some evil (and/or destructive) intelligent beings (liches, dragons, demons, etc.) and their respective Intelligence scores.
-Shadow Mage
A 5x5 square has an effective AC of 5. A natural 1 will miss it by, at most, 5 feet. Anyone with a BAB of +4, or better, will only miss on a natural 1. So anyone launching such a weapon would aim toward the square, not any creature within it.
This, in turn, limits you to creatures standing on the ground. If the creature is on the ground, rather than in the water or the air, then aiming at the dirt is a much more appealing idea than aiming at the creature. Otherwise, missing the creature may not allow the arrow to trigger at all. Setting a proximity based alarm on the arrow may allow you to trigger this with near misses, but with extra money and xp required to build a magic trap.
Two things. First, I wasn't implying that fission explosions were the only way to form fusion ones, merely listing a simple example of how we actually make them happen. Second, the presented method of constantly-increasing velocity of the (example) adamantine pebbles wouldn't be subject to terminal velocity; it's stuck in a vacuum, after all, where there is nothing to interfere with its "descent".
I think the only issues would be a matter of how perfect the pebble fell, initially, and the containment of said vacuum. If the pebble did not fall into the loop perfectly, it's conceivable that it would eventually clip the rim of the ring gate and chaos would ensue (likely long before reaching any appreciable speed). Gravity would eventually correct a minor miscalculation, though. Now, if something were to breach the vacuum these example pebbles were falling in, I'm not sure what would happen exactly. Sudden exposure to atmosphere might just create an "instant-meteor" and make the gates go boom, which would probably be a hefty sized explosion but nothing to rock the foundations of the world.
It's been some time since any in-depth study of physics, gravity, light, and matter specifically, so please correct any misunderstandings I have. Even without the introduction of antimatter (via major creation), it is entirely possible for a smart enough wizard with enough study of gravity, collisions, and gate technology to come up with a way to create that particular apparatus. Especially given the longevity of some evil (and/or destructive) intelligent beings (liches, dragons, demons, etc.) and their respective Intelligence scores.
If you can create and maintain such a vacuum chamber with the ring gates arranged as described, placing the pebble inside is the work of a teleport object. Furthermore, this would cause the pebble to fall without drift of any sort, other than the incredibly weak gravitational forces, which would cause the pebble to drift towards whichever side is closest to the pebble's center of mass. Still, by the time it hit the side, it would have reached relativistic velocities, thus increasing it's mass to truly incredible levels. My DMG says that ring gates can only transfer 100 lbs of material each day, so that's the theoretical upper limit. Practically, if it falls through 10 times at 10 lbs, that's used it up. Two ring gates won't last even one day with that pebble, so you'll need a massive array of ring gates and vacuum chambers to get this to any speed that makes a difference. At best, you'll get to quote the Simpsons. "That was a close one. Good thing it landed in this smoking crater."
As to the Antimatter, that is metagaming if ever there was. If any player thinks that they have a viable argument for making it, then I would simply have a mage use the same argument to make squarks. They would zip down to the center of the planet and gravitationally gobble up (I am a physicist, that is the technical term) all the matter in the planet. If they can make antimatter then the game is unplayable anyways.
One: Major Creation (or psionic Matter Manipulation in its transmutation mode) to create a critical mass of plutonium.
Two: The Gather cantrip effect separates small particles from each other - for example sand and salt - and puts them into small piles. One would need to raise the level considerably (or use epic magic, perhaps) to make this work at a smaller scale, and therefore manage isotopic separation - for example of a large mass of uranium, thus again creating a critical mass.
Three: I have seen a spell somewhere (canon) that creates, effectively, a man-sized teleport gate between two places on the same plane. Shrink the gate, increase the range (to astronomical distances) and increase the range at which you can create the first gate, and you have a spell which allows an inch-sized hole from anywhere within sight (including clairvoyant sight) to anywhere else.
Voila! You have solar-core material, at twenty million degrees and a billion atmospheres, with ordinary air on the other side. Watch the fireworks! I estimate 100 megatons per second equivalent. Or for slightly less destruction, put one side on top of a convenient enemy and the other side on a sphere of annihilation. Or one side at the bottom of an ocean...
OK, you get the idea. #3 is currently in the campaign I play in. :evillaugh
That was for your original post topic now to jump on a band wagon. Your weapon doesn't work because the Portable Hole needs to be open for the Bag of Holding to enter it.
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The Meteor Gun as I know it was an early development as D&D was shifting from AD&D to 3.0, Featured in a Dragon magazine
The "gun" had two micro Gates when fired a slug of metal was thrust into the first gate were it was sent to a point in space near the sun. The sun’s radiation and gravity heated and accelerated the metal slug burning away most of the metal leaving highly charged and fast particles that enter the second gate and exit the barrel of the "gun".
IRC the pistol did 1d8 19-20 x2 Range 50 and the rifle 2d6 19-20 x3 Range 90
I don't know the rate for fire though. Could be scaled up as big as you like.
Has nobody ever created a book about Magic Future? I mean there's modern future, so there should be a magic future right?
My brother and I were talking about the various ways of using this. We were thinking, hydrogen bombs are created by two fission explosions forcing a fusion of two hydrogen atoms, right? So, assuming this world can't manage to isolate hydrogen atoms, let's use two small rocks. Of adamantine.
You have two of these infinite-acceleration loops going. Separate, beside each other, location is really irrelevant. However, the ring gates that they fall into (the third gates in either loop system) would be aiming toward each other, with said two small rocks (of adamantine). You let the loops run for a while to pick up some massive speed and velocity (say, a whole 24 hours), and then you dispel gate two in both loop systems simultaneously. Little rocks smash into each other with all of this accumulated force.
Would this be the D&D equivalent to a hydrogen bomb, only bigger? If so, what happens if you can use major creation to create antimatter to force it into a fusion with matter?
I dunno, my brain hurts. I almost hope somebody will tell me I'm wrong. The image in my head is after the character pulls this off, he instantly appears in a white room where God is saying "You've been a very, very bad boy!"
-Shadow Mage (bombing things, just another service offered...)
Note that 24 hours isn't really that long. In a 1g field (roughly 10m/s^2) the object will reach 10^6 m/s (a day is roughly 100,000 seconds). That's less than 1% of light speed (it's fast, but not that fast). Still, an object weighing 1kg will have an energy of 10^12 joules. 1 ton of TNT has an energy of roughly 1,000,000 joules, so that is still a megaton explosion just from impact - why do you need fusion and stuff on top of it?
(Note that personally I would rule that in short order the gates stop working - after all the energy has to come from somewhere, and once the energy in the gates is drained it cannot create more. I'd let you get a big explosion, but not that big.)
If you can create and maintain such a vacuum chamber with the ring gates arranged as described, placing the pebble inside is the work of a teleport object. Furthermore, this would cause the pebble to fall without drift of any sort, other than the incredibly weak gravitational forces, which would cause the pebble to drift towards whichever side is closest to the pebble's center of mass. Still, by the time it hit the side, it would have reached relativistic velocities, thus increasing it's mass to truly incredible levels. My DMG says that ring gates can only transfer 100 lbs of material each day, so that's the theoretical upper limit. Practically, if it falls through 10 times at 10 lbs, that's used it up. Two ring gates won't last even one day with that pebble, so you'll need a massive array of ring gates and vacuum chambers to get this to any speed that makes a difference. At best, you'll get to quote the Simpsons. "That was a close one. Good thing it landed in this smoking crater."
Good points all, especially the last one. Looks like we couldn't do this cheaply, and would actually need full-power gates to do so. This would definitely be a permanent fixture, but the overall concept would remain the same I believe. It'd be tricky designing the functions of the gates though...
OK, Bob now point and shoot! Whoosh! Pop and its sucked to another plane. Not very climactic, dramatic, or memorable.
But it would lead to such a great line.
"How ya like them apples?"
Or, keep a few of these on ya, wait for the BBEG to pop back. Grin at him, blow a kiss, and do it again. After the third or fourth time, begin inquiring about his trips and ask if he's been to .
Blaster276, this was actually addressed a bit earlier. A wizard (researcher, really, with access to magic) who is very evil and/or undead and/or extremely curious and/or long-lived otherwise has plenty of opportunity to discover things. It took us, in this world, a long time to fully define (as best as we can) physics and its functions. In a game world, we're dealing with super-intelligent beings of arcane might who can design gates, who can sap moisture from living creatures (horrid wilting), or even create objects from thin air and summon beings from other worlds. I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that a mage with a more scientific mind would exist somewhere, and would think to implement his amazing tools (magic) to assist his studies. It doesn't take much to realize that travel through air creates resistance, and removing that resistance makes travel easier (which may lead to study of falling objects, in tern, how fast they might fall without the resistance of air... a butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo...).
Rondom, my physics is more than a bit rusty, but I have a hunch that in normal Earth atmosphere, an object falling for a matter of minutes reaches terminal velocity in relatively short order; well under a twenty-four hour period. Include the same gravity in a vacuum, however, and I believe it's possible to accumulate some incredible velocity in just a twenty-four hour period. Will it be enough to make a boom if two objects at whatever that velocity is collide? Honestly, I don't know. However, there's nothing stopping the user from just running the gate longer. Hell, this might be the trial-error game that started initially as a way to make an object go really fast... then after witnessing said object hit something decided to research more.
-Shadow Mage
My personal favourite is the meteor gun (I don't know where the original thread is).
Take a set or ring gates, place it in such a way that something falling through one goes out the other above the first one thus creating an infinite falling loop. Now, put it in a vacuum. You know have infinite acceleration (previously impossible because anything that was accelerating due to gravity would eventually hit whatever was the source of the gravity). Now, place another ring gate from a separate set beneath the lower one from the first set. All this requires to my knowledge is a way to allow an object not to count for the weight limit of the ring gates. I believe a way around this was discovered, though I remember it not.
A speck of dust is then dropped into the first ring gate, the vacuum is then established, and a wizard stands by targeting a dispel magic at the lower original ring gate. Once the speck of dust has achieved ridiculous speed the wizard dispels the gate and the speck flies into the second one at some ridiculous speed. I won't go into what happens if it has time to break the speed of light because, frankly, I don't understand what would happen. The airburst and heat caused by even a speck of dust exiting the other ring gate in the pair would be enough to kill anything in a fairly large area (probably larger than fairly large).
Except one problem. The ring gates turn off after a certain amount of weight passes through them. You need modified version of a Permanent Teleportation Circle that allows you to move objects to pull this off. Meaning 17th lvl caster minimum and 4,500 xp minimum.
Plus, the acceleration from G will take more than 24 hours to get up to relatavistic speeds, so you're better off dumping metal slugs, not specks of sand.
G*second is assumed at 9.8 so...
23.9 hours * 60 = 145434 minutes
145434 * 60 = 8726040 seconds
8726040 * 9.8 = 85,515,192 meters/second.
Since C is... 299,792,458 metres per second you'll need...
299,792,458 / 85,515,192
3.505721626632142742543336627251 Days.
So, after 3.5 days, you can launch something at relatavistic speeds.
You realize that even something small moving at 80,000 miles an hour (roughly 460,672 m/s) will vaporize anything it touches, right?
An example of this is the Manson Crater, Only a small object, really a small mountain (2 km across) hit Manson Iowa about 74 mill years ago; the crater was not world-wide nuclear winter causing, but it blasted a crater about 38 Km across; so you would have had a 'bad day' at the very least if you were anywhere near it. So a 1 1/4 mile stone caused a 23 3/4 mile crater for you non SI using folks.
Really, you could launch off metal slugs at handgun speeds to deal lots of damage, with 1000 fps being the avg. for heavier guns, that translates to 682 mph or 1091.2 Km/h and thus into 677.6352 m/s.
So.. 700 m/s / 9.8 m/s^2 = 71 seconds to get to pretty fatal speeds.
Make it every 10 minutes to 'recharge' a new round. Use rocks and 3 Teleportation circles.
Setup in a row.
(1) --> (2) ---> (3) ---//--> (4)
(1) is the start, there is no Teleport ring here.
(2) is the first Teleport Circle, It teleports objects to (1)
(3) is the 'end' of the speed-up loop, it teleports to (4)
(4) is the 'projector'. When 'activated' it turns off the Gate at (2), making the object being sped up to continue on to (3), where then it flies out at (4). Hopefully away form the user.
The problem is that unless you start using time-travel, the time delay on such a weapon makes it pretty useless.
What's more, under the rules, there's no reason to assume that vacuums do exist. D&D is a fantasy world with as much fantasy physics that might match the medieval view of the world, rather than the modern one.
The planets and Sun may well be lights hung on crystal spheres and moving through aether rather than "planets" moving through a vacuum and reflecting sunlight.
There may well only be 4 elements (fire, earth, air and water) and no such thing as an "atom", as the medieval alchemists believed.
The world may be flat, with edges that you can sail off of if you get too close.
There may be no vacuums.
There's no reason to assume that you can import modern science into D&D, not 17th century physics (the vacuum), and certainly not 20th century scientific knowledge (like antimatter, nuclear reactions or the modern notion that matter is composed of atoms). First, because your character may lack the knowledge and, second, because the modern science may not accurately describe the game world.
Any superweapon based on those principles should be shared with the DM, as they may well not work.
First Velocity = Distance/Time
Genesis allows you to create a plane with your own scape topographic and temporal state, so you can select for that temporal state a factor of 0 for your experimental region on that plane, this creates an area where velocity becomes undefined and using a pair of these connected via interwoven gates (Gate 1 goes to plane 2 on "Top" gate 2 goes to plane 1 on "Top" of gate 1 there, you create your loop in what you could slate as a current total vacuum which is sealed from anything entering it. This removes the idea of terminal velocity as you could also create a super-dense mass below each lower gate to drive the device using Wish.
So now velocity is an undefined and infinite value the velocity of light is now infinite/undefined on that plane thus the speed limit is now infinite/undefined.
You can then use Wish to create any number of particles within the region, or use any other method of delivering them.
This then creates the relativity equation of
E=MC^2 where M=Undefined and C=Undefined^2 so an undefined amount of energy can be released at any point by creating a gate as an interrupt to that point on the plane, this costs about 18,000+(1-X for item) Xp (Not a massive amount at high levels) and 0GP) and can destroy any planet, the paradox being that with an undefined mass there would be a singularity created which would become a black hole, so some safeguard against such occurring may be appropriate, however I have no idea what that might be.
You could modify this with a pair and create a supercollider as well however that application would be limited in the state you create with the planes.
It would be easier just to wish for a black hole to appear at desired location X.
I don't actually expect anyone to try this and I suspect there are many problems with this theory as well.
Your weapon doesn't work because the Portable Hole needs to be open for the Bag of Holding to enter it.
No. It's the portable hole that needs to enter the bag of holding for both to be sucked away and annihilated, according to the DMG (quoted in the original article of this thread). Putting a bag of holding into a portable hole merely causes both to disappear, with no 20' diameter area effect.
I like the other ideas suggested as a counterpoint to my original article, but I agree it's metagaming to invent things that require knowledge of relativity or particle physics.
-A
First, it's not nearly as modern as it is being portrayed as; hell, the Greek "Atomists" of 5th and 3rd century BCE literally laid the groundwork of what we call modern physics, was developed substantially up to the Renaissance, where it advanced in even more leaps and bounds. The ideas of "gravity" and "mass" are unique only in name, but their core ideas, their meanings have existed for a very long time. The laws of physics didn't create effects, merely documented them.
Second, please remember the following numbers. 10-11, 18, 20+. Why? The average human Intelligence score is 10-11. An Intelligence of 18 is a genius. Wizards (for example) of mid-level and higher can reach an Intelligence of 20+ without a problem.
Number three. Without any life experience, an infant realizes that when it jerks its body while clutching a toy, and the toy flies out of its hand and collides with the , and understands what a collision is. With a little clever testing and documentation a man discovered that two falling objects of vastly differing weights fell at the same speed. Existing technology appears to be the only limit to what a human is capable of discovering. Magic, in all of its forms, effectively removes that limit.
So now, and answer honestly, is it so hard to believe that regardless of setting, in the face of all of the combat and warfare on a variety of scales and by a variety of peoples/races, that a few ingenious humans, or dwarves, or gnomes, or elves might discover things of this topic's nature? Or is the "world of swords and sorcery" without any great thinkers or scientists? Is it so hard to believe that the constant fighting in various manners by various peoples has actually changed technology and use of magic in these worlds?
My own honest answer, is no. No culture is without its thinkers, or without its scientists. No, the development and use of technology must have changed over time; certainly it has been proven time and again in our own world that conflict breeds technological advance, and magic (with all of its abilities) likely advances as well (if only in use). Heck, even the original poster points out that after having worked with weapon systems for so long he has developed a way to use two observed effects (projectile technology and specific magical effects) to create a more dangerous weapon.
If I am being unreasonable, let me know. If my logic is flawed, correct it. Otherwise, before deeming something as "impossible" to the D&D world because it exists in our world, pause a moment and consider it objectively; that is, with logic and care. With rationality.
So now, and answer honestly, is it so hard to believe that regardless of setting, in the face of all of the combat and warfare on a variety of scales and by a variety of peoples/races, that a few ingenious humans, or dwarves, or gnomes, or elves might discover things of this topic's nature? Or is the "world of swords and sorcery" without any great thinkers or scientists? Is it so hard to believe that the constant fighting in various manners by various peoples has actually changed technology and use of magic in these worlds?
My own honest answer, is no. No culture is without its thinkers, or without its scientists.
My answer is yes. I say this because magic in D&D is legitimate and real.
Where is the incentive to do science when almost any problem can be solved by magic? Need a boat? Use Quall's Feather Token! Need a wall of stone? Cast a spell! Why bother inventing machines to construct it more efficiently, why perform the research and development necessary to invent those machines, when a verbal utterance and some hand-waving will accomplish the job? There is no requirement, no incentive, and no need to learn modern physics in such a world.
The level of technology in D&D is dark-ages medieval, and anything seemingly advanced relies on magical effects. Truthfully, I'm not surprised by the low-tech. I would argue that a high-magic world will always be a low-tech world, because there simply is no need to do any science beyond rudimentary classical mechanics.
Heck, even the original poster points out that after having worked with weapon systems for so long he has developed a way to use two observed effects (projectile technology and specific magical effects) to create a more dangerous weapon.
As the original poster, I want to emphasize that the weapon had an important criterion: that a person living in the D&D world could reasonably come up with it, using what's available. The device may qualify as "new technology" but the fact remains that it relies on existing technology and established magic to work. I believe that the existence of real magic would stifle scientific thinking. It wouldn't stifle creativity, though; creativity in thinking is independent of the availability of science, technology, or magic.
-A
See, this is what bothers me about that particular argument regarding use of physics in gaming.
First, it's not nearly as modern as it is being portrayed as; hell, the Greek "Atomists" of 5th and 3rd century BCE literally laid the groundwork of what we call modern physics, was developed substantially up to the Renaissance, where it advanced in even more leaps and bounds. The ideas of "gravity" and "mass" are unique only in name, but their core ideas, their meanings have existed for a very long time. The laws of physics didn't create effects, merely documented them.
Second, please remember the following numbers. 10-11, 18, 20+. Why? The average human Intelligence score is 10-11. An Intelligence of 18 is a genius. Wizards (for example) of mid-level and higher can reach an Intelligence of 20+ without a problem.
Number three. Without any life experience, an infant realizes that when it jerks its body while clutching a toy, and the toy flies out of its hand and collides with the , and understands what a collision is. With a little clever testing and documentation a man discovered that two falling objects of vastly differing weights fell at the same speed. Existing technology appears to be the only limit to what a human is capable of discovering. Magic, in all of its forms, effectively removes that limit.
So now, and answer honestly, is it so hard to believe that regardless of setting, in the face of all of the combat and warfare on a variety of scales and by a variety of peoples/races, that a few ingenious humans, or dwarves, or gnomes, or elves might discover things of this topic's nature? Or is the "world of swords and sorcery" without any great thinkers or scientists? Is it so hard to believe that the constant fighting in various manners by various peoples has actually changed technology and use of magic in these worlds?
My own honest answer, is no. No culture is without its thinkers, or without its scientists. No, the development and use of technology must have changed over time; certainly it has been proven time and again in our own world that conflict breeds technological advance, and magic (with all of its abilities) likely advances as well (if only in use). Heck, even the original poster points out that after having worked with weapon systems for so long he has developed a way to use two observed effects (projectile technology and specific magical effects) to create a more dangerous weapon.
If I am being unreasonable, let me know. If my logic is flawed, correct it. Otherwise, before deeming something as "impossible" to the D&D world because it exists in our world, pause a moment and consider it objectively; that is, with logic and care. With rationality.
Which is pretty much what the Eberron campaign setting proves, and the Forgotten Realms seems to forget. Magic allows those who know how to use it to solve problems in unique ways.
Example: Holographic Camouflage: Currently no more than a pipe-dream relying on shifting light from one side to the opposite.
The Invisibility spell pretty much covers this, however it has limitations (no attacking and staying hidden being one).
However, if one goes for a 'natural' version of these spells; one has Camouflage (Druid 1, Ranger 1: +10 Circumstance Bonus on Hide Checks; works in any environment) and Forest Fold (Druid 4, Ranger 3: +20 competence bonus on hide checks; but you can't move more than 10' from where you cast it; does not require a natural setting). So, even within the 'magical' system there are alternate manners to pull off other types of astounding feats.
A rogue with gear that grants them forestfold + cloak is effectively invisible (+30 on hide checks; plus ranks and dex; which by lvl 5 should be at least +10 so +40 on hide checks; the exact amount that Invis grants; +20 if you move, which is similar to a rogue with camouflage with a bit of training in hiding). Of course they have to have hidden behind cover ahead of time to stay hidden from others.
It should be noted that since these spells directly increase Hide checks, True Seeing and the like, brand of spells do nothing to show the hidden character. Making it slightly less flexible, however vastly superior if time is taken to 'refresh' the Forest Fold spell. However, if a lvl of shadow dancer is thrown in, the character becomes nearly the equivalent of a cyberpunk street sam with holo-camo clothing, running at full speed and barely able to be seen.
Second, please remember the following numbers. 10-11, 18, 20+. Why? The average human Intelligence score is 10-11. An Intelligence of 18 is a genius. Wizards (for example) of mid-level and higher can reach an Intelligence of 20+ without a problem.
Actually 3rd edition no longer defines 18 as genius. If we compare with strength (Possible by examining weight-lifting) we get a limit of human attributes right around 23 to 25 (where the weight a character can lift over their head is right around the world record). This then is the limit of Human ability - very much in line a natural talent of 18 backed by every level improvement through 20th level.
At that point a genius might be more along the lines of 22+ Intelligence. Even then the ability to conceive radically new ideas is not universal and Wizards might have a world-view shaped by their knowledge of magic which could prevent them from imagining some of the aspects which we, as 21st century humans consider obvious.
Finally the "world destroying" superweapon seems to have no place in most campaigns unless the goal IS to destroy a DM's carefully crafted setting and end a campaign.
Middle Ages technology can not do everything modern technology can. Sure, medieval materials can make crude batteries with metal and acid. Sure, electromagnetism can quickly follow. But some things can't be done. Perfect vacuums. Even we can't do that. Antimatter. Without a stable perfect vacuum, that's gone too. Many of the things discussed wouldn't happen, because there's an easier way.
If I am being unreasonable, let me know. If my logic is flawed, correct it. Otherwise, before deeming something as "impossible" to the D&D world because it exists in our world, pause a moment and consider it objectively; that is, with logic and care. With rationality.
I do not think you are being unreasonable, but you are making the assumption that modern physics and game physics are substantively identical. To each his own on that, but I have always gotten the sense that the authors had something else in mind.
In the D&D universe, there are four "pure substances" called elements from which the entire multiverse was constructed. The Planar Handbook says this (page 136):
The Inner Planes are elemental manifestations, pure substances from which the rest of the multiverse is constructed. Each Inner Plane is made up predominantly of a single type of energy or element that overwhelms all others.
These "pure substances" and "elements" from the four elemental planes suggest the Empedoclean (four element) model of matter is the one at play in the D&D universe.
That makes some sense because the Empedoclean theory was the one that came to dominate the sciences in the middle ages and through the Renaissance. The modern notion of chemical "elements" is a later invention, which slowly developed between 1600 and 1800 (the "Age of Reason"), and largely the latter half of that (the "Enlightenment"). The word "element" was not applied to the modern chemical elements until 1813.
One quick clarification is that the early atomists, like Leucippus and Democritus, agreed that there were four elements (earth air, fire and water). A few notable atomists thought there were three, some thought there were five, but they largely accepted. Certainly none would have guessed there were 92 (or more). Their disagreement with the Aristotelian/Empedoclean model of matter was whether there were smallest units of matter that could not be subdivided ("atoms"), not with the identity of the "pure" forms of matter.
The notion of atomism (that atoms cannot be subdivided) reappeared in the 17th century, with the reexamination of the identity of those atoms largely waiting until the 18th century.
Even the theory of phlogiston (which states that "burning" is the process of releasing phlogiston from a material, leaving behind its "calx," or "pure" form) is strongly reminiscent of saying that burning purifies a substance by releasing "fire". That theory wasn't shot down until the mid-eighteenth century.
If it makes your game more fun for you to assume that game physics and modern physics line up (in whole or in part), that is what matters for your game...but the cosmology of the game really does suggest that the four "elements" represented by the elemental inner planes are supposed to be the "real," pure elements from which matter in the game world is formed.
Whether a DM allows many of the listed superweapons is heavily dependent on what science the DM accepts. If the DM views the earth, air, fire and water as "pure elements" as the Planar Handbook suggests, then all of chemistry as we know it may not exist. In fact, it may well be possible to non-magically transmute lead to gold, as the alchemists believed, by adding the appropriate amounts of air and fire to it and removing some water.
In [i]that[/i] world, the 30 Intelligence scientist-wizard might well examine the world and determine that your theory of 92 "atomic" elements was superstitious, unscientific nonsense. He may also be able to conclusively prove that his Sun revolves around his stationary world, held up on a giant crystal sphere, and demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that a vacuum cannot exist.
The great virtue of the four-element universe, in my mind, is that it prevents many out-of-character-knowledge shenanigans like the anti-iridium bomb or (one which a player of mine has actually tried) the invention of gun powder.
"To each his own."
I believe this is important here because it emphasizes that, regardless of the ethics being debated/discussed, everyone still has their own idea of a preferred campaign world or setting, and that's perfectly acceptable. Admittedly, my own are far "lower-magic" (simply meaning, very rare), so many of my views are colored to that idea.
Also, I wish to point out that, in many cases, Kresalak correctly states that these are thinking exercises. Many/most of which are never intended to be used in a game (like the Hulking Hurler, or Pun-Pun), but simply to see if it can be done.
And with that out of the way...
amatulic, I understand your point, and to a limited degree agree with you. That line of thinking/logic begins to break down, I think, when one considers the number of people who can use magic, compared to those who can't. Most towns and cities within most settings, to my knowledge, were constructed by hand, with magic a secondary construction tool, only if it is common enough to be used in such a manner. Joe Blow might not have the technology of a gun, but he finds a bow and arrow provide the same effect on game he hunts; two different ways of achieving the same thing, one with the benefit of technology, and the other without (or with, but to a far lesser degree).
In fact, this is exactly why I agree with Judging Eagle's comment regarding Eberron; that particular setting is literally a fusion of magic and technology, with magic used almost similarly to a Magic of the Gathering taskmage.
OravennasBrother, thank you for your correction, but it still goes to show that creation of great things might still be possible by long-lived creatures who are at least that intelligent, and perhaps who also had a penchant for doomsday devices.
Pandaemoni, you pose very good arguments, especially regarding the general Empedoclean model used to create the "default" (Living Greyhawk) world of D&D. I don't have either 3.X version of a planar handbook (never purchased the newer one and my older one is lost to time and space), so it's hard for me to check that, but it makes some sense (hard to explain the relationship of things to the positive/negative energy planes, though...).
And, to be fair, at least in one setting a limited version of "gunpowder" already exists ("smokepowder" in Forgotten Realms), but I tend to shy away/avoid its use and influence in the game.
-Shadow Mage
How could you make it without telling the DM? If you don't tell the DM that your character is doing something, he/she simply isn't doing it. You can't just wait until the battle and say "Oh, I pull out the superweapon I made while you weren't looking." The DM is just going to say "What superweapon? Your character never made a superweapon."
This is the kind of comment I believe the author was originally looking for. The situation is rather simple, in my eyes. While, as a DM, I play the antagonists in a storyline, I myself am not an antagonist to my players. As such, my players don't view me as "the enemy" that they must secretly plot to make a weapon to defeat. Surprising your DM with an item like this will never win you his favor. It will only make him angry and cause him to write a few notes about how your character needs to suffer....a great deal.
Furthermore, while many DMs typically give players relatively free reign to purchase gear out of the PHB (just make sure you have it written down on your character sheet), I do not know even a single DM who allows the creation and/or purchasing of any magic item without his or her direct approval.
Now, regarding the ever-present "diminutive bag of holding", the bag's weight does not come from its physical size, but instead from its magical properties, and thus would be unaltered by a reduction in physical size. A type 1 bag of holding, regardless of whether its medium, gargantuan, or fine, accesses an extra-dimensional space that can store up to 250 lb., with a limit on volume of 30 cu. ft.
So, if that is the kind of relationship you and your DM have developed, shame on the both of you. Role playing goes well past the "you versus me" situation. And if your DM allows the random purchasing or development of magical items in his campaign, then he definitely doesn't have the appropriate amount of control over his world.
The "ethics" behind a superweapon in a campaign are arguably no different than that of any other "big bang" item; epic spells, supremely powerful nonepic spells, extremely strong/powerful items, et cetera. It can be a tool for either drawing the players into the game to stop a great evil, possibly as a last-ditch resort, or it can be used by the main enemy of the players. Now, I won't argue whether or not the GM and players involved will have to be more (because in all cases this is true; a superweapon is, by its very definition, nothing small-scale and to be ignored), but this is not to say that it can't be done.
What it sounds like the real issue is, is whether or not to allow persistent use of one. The epic spell Vengeful Wrath of God immediately comes to mind regarding how use of a superweapon by players should be handled; 356d6 damage to the enemy, 100d6 damage to the "conduit" or caster, and damn near impossible to pull off. While there are innumerable possibilities for superweapons, they should be so difficult to use, and so fear-inspiring, that the players (and, of course, the characters they play) have to think long and hard about using it. Inclusion of bystanders to this great "formula" can really put strain on the moral judgment of any character, especially (but not exclusively) Good characters.
Take the following scenario, for example.
[indent]
Throughout the course of many adventures and many trials, the brave adventurers come to gradually uncover a plot whose reach extended far beyond the minor "faces" with which the party has already interacted; these have been merely pawns and minions to some greater power, one who is rapidly acquiring power enough to fuel his greatest, and vilest, deed yet. However, along the way, these same adventurers have, through various means, stumbled across a dreadful weapon; one that can stop this great manipulating power, one and for all.
Fighting their way closer to their target, and putting the decision on whether or not to use this weapon from their mind, the adventurers draw closer to the great evil they seek, but find it is not alone. In fact, the fortification of their unknown foe resides in the middle of a port city, and the bystanders are countless in number. They learn then of hostages and slave within the fortification as well, some to be sacrificed for this great evil ritual.
As the time to stop this great evil deed grows short, the adventurers must make a choice; press on and without using their terrible 'weapon', and possibly not make it in time to stop their foe... or, resort to the weapon, wagering the lives of those within and around the fortification against those many more in the world who would be effected by a successful ritual.[/indent]
Long story short, I believe the best use of any kind of superweapon is one that puts a moral strain on the users (if they are players) or one that can potentially directly affect the lives of the players (if used by an NPC or enemy).
-Shadow Mage
Now, I won't argue whether or not the GM and players involved will have to be more careful (because in all cases this is true; a superweapon is, by its very definition, nothing small-scale and to be ignored), but this is not to say that it can't be done.
Forgot the bolded word. A needed clarification, I think.
-Shadow Mage
The great virtue of the four-element universe, in my mind, is that it prevents many out-of-character-knowledge shenanigans like the anti-iridium bomb or (one which a player of mine has actually tried) the invention of gun powder.
Hmm. Elemental plane of uranium anyone?
Which, in my mind, justifies spending 22k in gold pieces, just because you can call it a Phantom Zone arrow.
(Yeah, it doesn't trap clerics and mages with plane shift, but hell, LOTS of guys can escape the Phantom Zone.)
Hmm. Elemental plane of uranium anyone?
Is that a demi-plane of Mendeleevius? the Plane of Tabulated Elements? Must be from some home-brew campaign world you run.
Would be interesting to run, no elemental, infernal or celestial planes or outer planes for that matter. Nothing except the near-infinite combinations of elements. Of course all metallic dragons would be outsiders, hailing from the elemental planes of gold, silver and copper with the demi-planes of bronze and brass having their own draconic deities. Throw in Bahamut as the overgod of Platinum.
Making a dragon for each metal would be interesting, but mercury and sodium dragons would be odd or volatile (sodium, the metal ignites when exposed to any amount of water; usually it's stored in sealed glass containers full of oil).
Chromatic dragons would either not exist (destroyed by their more powerful good brethren) or would be the material plane petitioners/worshipers of the draconic gods.
[a plane using high science, becomes even more fantastical than the Greyhawk setting; how... unusually unexpected]
Getting back on topic:
The access to magic breeds the intent to use magic whenever possible.
Why? It's less resource-intensive to rework a spell so that it affects more people or affects a different type of target or some other somewhat minor change that does not affect the effect that the spell will have on its surroundings.
In the real world however, intent means nothing. You have to physically create the parameters so that a goal that is set is achieved.
This is why you can 'heighten' or 'extend' a Fly spell, but to increase the power or duration of a jet engine's flight you have to do more than just strap on a bigger or tougher engine or strap on more fuel tanks.
In any case, the more you want to monkey around with the possible combinations of gear and spells; the more you have to have your DM on board.
Why? B/c he needs to know what the group is capable of and what sort of challenges are good for them to face and which ones are completely useless.
The monsters with SR and insane saves, but with low HP and special abilities are a good fit for fighter-heavy groups; unless the special abilities are really killer; while a bunch of arcane casters would have trouble.
The massive horde of enemies is fun for mages and cleave-happy fighters, but is boring for a party of sneaky classes. Unless the DM knows the groups focus and allows them to infiltrate and sabotage/assassinate the enemy camp/commanders.
All you need is a scroll of shapechange or a 17th level wizard or druid.
1: turn into a bird.
2: on the next round fly 10ft over the target and as a free action shapechange into something massive.
In 3.0 I would pick a 200ft lead sphere (4,188,790 ft^3, lead > 708 lbs/ft^3) giving 2965663320 lbs of matter)
In 3.5 I would pick a blue whale or perhaps an elder earth elemental if the DM requires hard ingame information on the creatures mass.
3: splat! anyone under you takes 1d6 + (1d6 / 200 lbs) damage. You take 1d6 damage from the fall.
Before anyone mentions it (and they do every time), the 20 dice cap is for damage resulting from the distance fallen due to terminal velocity, it is distinct from the damage from the weight of the object.
Yes. the 3.0 version deals 14,828,317d6 damage.
Yes the 3.5 version deals 301d6 damage with an elder earth elemental. Note that 3.5 does not provide guidelines for creature weight other than earth elementals. If we were to assume the 3.0 guidelines remain in place, a colossal creature should weight at least 250,000 lbs for 1,251d6 damage. If we use the blue whale at 392,000 lbs or more, we get 1,960d6 damage.
Anyway, my players would have to tell what they were doing, but not why.
Player: I attach the cage to the arrow shaft.
DM: Why?
Player: No reason...
DM: Whatever...
Just my opinion. Other DMs may disagree.
It has been renamed the 'Gravity Gun' since that's essentially what it is.
Now as to the questions behind the development of this gun it's reasonable to assume that the character doing the creating has realized that thing fall downwards, and it is only with our more advanced ideas about physics that we begin to think that it won't always get faster the further it drops, so it's not impossible for the character to think this gun will work and so try and make it :D
The other assumption in making this gun is that (like with my DM) 'Portals' operate like the 'Gate' spell, and not like a teleporting effect (which would probably cause the missile to lose it's velocity every time it goes through).
Creation of the gun:
Well mainly u need a long tube with a portal at either end. The whole setup should be VERY secure as you end up dealing with some incredibly powerful forces here that absolutely MUST NOT get out of hand.
I used a 100m long stone tube about 20ft in diameter, drilled into one of my flying enclaves (such as created by Proctiv's Move Mountain) so that it's secure from outside meddling. The tube is encased in a wall of force (including the ends with the portals- behind the portals obviously). Inside the wall of force is a wall of the indigo colour from 'Prismatic Wall' and inside that is a 'Disintegration Field'. Together the three should be able to prevent any problems inside the tube from damaging anything outside the tube (such as splitting the enclave in half). The tube is made into a vacuum by an undead wizard (my character's a demi-lich) teleporting inside and using polymorph object to transform all the air in the room into a small lead cube that can then be teleported out. Other options include using multiple 'Gust of Wind' spells to draw all the air out- but that wouldnt give a perfect vacuum.
The portal at the bottom is the important one. It's a variable (3 different possible targets) one-way portal that by default goes to the portal at the top of the tube. When 'firing order' happens it changes to the portal that is stuck on the bottom of my sky fortress (or some other suitable deployment vehicle that u want the weapon to fire out of). When the 'cancel order' happens it changes to a portal in the middle of the Positive Energy Plane- harmlessly 'powering down' the gun. Thus, the gun now has an easy fire and abort mechanism. My gun has an elaborate procedure for both to ensure that it is only fired or disabled by the appropriate people.
There is also another one-way portal somewhere (preferably keyed for security) that leads into the top portal so that the missile can be dropped in.
Inside the tube I used an effect similar to 'Reverse Gravity'. I figured that 'Reverse Gravity' can generate about 2g's (one G to counter normal gravity and then another to create the upward gravity) so in effect it can be used to control gravity in the tube (your DM might want this 2 b an epic spell). Therefore I can create as much as 3g's downwards (this decreases the time required for the gun to 'power up').
The actual missile:
My missile is a cylinder of iron 5ft in radius and 20ft long capped with a cone of iron 5ft tall, giving it a mass of about 320000kg. It is then covered with a layer of force to ensure an almost frictionless (if not frictionless) surface. I personally create my missile and the force effects as part of an epic spell that also adds spell reflection and ward so that not even epic spells can affect it (not that they will have a chance as explained later).
What happens:
Basically the missile is created and inserted into the tube where it begins to cycle through, building velocity. Under 1g it should then be left for just under 8 hours to build up a velocity of 280000m/s (about 93.5% of the speed of light). Then the firing order is sent through, the bottom portal changes destination and the missile streaks out, traveling at about 280km a second. It flies out of the destination portal (presumably right above it's target) and sears downwards. My sky fortress sits about 10km above its target to fire and uses epic spells with control wind effects and heat wards so that it's not damaged). The missile will cover the distance to the ground in a fraction of a second (about 1/300th of a DND round). As part of the epic spell that created the missile, about 500m from the ground the force effect peels away from the missile and the and moves below it to form an immovable disk of force that the missile then collides with, causing all of its kinetic energy to become heat (complete conversion since it is stopped 'instantly). This instant stop is unachievable in the real world because we don't have access to 'force'.
The resulting explosion is equivalent to a three megaton blast (3 megatons of TNT), which has the following effects:
Out to an 18km radius- lethal or extremely bad 3rd degree burns (this is light and so affects the area directly under the force disk the same as everywhere else)
Out to a 10km radius- an air blast sufficient to destroy most normal (modern) buildings. Would probably be must more destructive using older building techniques. Most humans should survive the blast.
Out to a 4km radius- an air blast strong enough to destroy any modern above ground structure (once again probably worse for older building techniques) and kill almost 100% of humans
Out to a 3.5km radius- radiation blast sufficient to kill most humans (almost all without treatment). Could also cause area to become slightly or moderately radioactive).
A fireball with about a 800m radius- burning at about 11million degrees. Shouldn't think much will survive that.
So there you have it- a fantastic super weapon, and surprisingly affordable too considering how much damage it does.
Can also be used to create 1 or 2 megaton blasts
1 Megaton blast:
Required velocity: 161500m/s
Charging time with 1g: 5hrs
2 Megaton blast
Required velocity: 228500m/s
Charging time with 1g: 7hrs
NOTE: on the maths and physics used for this
The Kinematics equations were used to model the 'powering up' phase of the gun, and all values were rounded down (or whichever way gave the lesser effect).
The results of the blast were modeled using laws from Carey Sublette's well-known Nuclear Weapons FAQ. The results are actually less than what would probably happen (based on comparisons with real blast statistics), and all values have been rounded down (or once again, to the lesser effect).
Hope that's everything :D