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| #1XorialMar 10, 2004 10:29:42 | One of the most ignored aspects of the game seems to be favored classes. While the concept has merit, and can cause quite an argument (Look at when they changed the gnome’s favored class to bard), it is often the first element to get the boot when played. I’m personally guilty of ignoring favored classes in the games I run. Monte Cook dropped it from his redoing of the game for his Arcana Unearthed handbook. Even WotC dropped the concept for d20 Modern. So what, if anything, is to be done about it. I know that d20 Modern doesn’t really fit well with favored classes, with all the encouraged multiclassing. That system encourages the cherry picking that a lot of gamers despise as running rampant in D&D. The problem I see is that there are no real benefits to taking a race’s favored class. There is the XP penalty when multiclassing, but I don’t see that as really being the solution. It doesn’t give you the feel that elves are truly better wizards, or that half-orcs are better barbarians. I would suggest that the races need to have better in game abilities that encourage sticking with, or even taking, their favored class. About the only race that truly has abilities that reflect their favored class, is the halfling. They get the most use out of their abilities when playing the rogue class. Gnomes are slightly geared to the bard, but they still can be great illusionist. Gnomes don’t have any abilities that just scream out BARD. Elves are supposed to be the quintessential wizard. Elves are supposed to have the most magical society around, but the only racial ability that reflects this fact is their bonus to Intelligence. In the game, I would say that humans are better, with the bonus first level feat. Elves seem to be better warriors with those bonus weapon proficiencies. Most of the bonuses they receive are holdovers from previous editions of the game. Spell like abilities of some sort, such as detect magic would be more appropriate. Give them a +2 bonus to Knowledge (Arcana) & Spellcraft. Other races could be modified to reflect these ideas. This doesn’t have to be THE fix. Discussion on other ways to improve on the favored class concept is welcomed. |
| #2zombiegleemaxJun 20, 2004 6:21:45 | I always dislike favored classes because they push characters towards being stereotypical. Besides, how does an elf with an intelligence of 6 qualify as particularly well suited to being a wizard. The way I look at it, characters should, at creation, pick a class as their favored class that should in some way be related to stats, i.e. highest stat strength = fighter favored class (or barbarian or ranger or paladin) Dex = rogue favored class (Or monk or ranger), Con = barbarian, and the mental stats should be easy. This is just my take, but I think it makes sense in the favored class being the class that the character is particularly talented at, and therefore able to advance in most easily (thereby not getting XP penalty for multiclassing) |
| #3zombiegleemaxJun 27, 2004 20:59:12 | Xorial, I agree with your statement:The problem I see is that there are no real benefits to taking a race’s favored class. I recently finished DMing a 2-year campaign where an NPC dwarf fighter (single-classed) went from 2nd level to 18th level. However, since he stayed single-classed throughout his entire career, he got NO benefit from having fighter as his favored class. In fact, you only get benefits from favored classes if you leave that class. In other words, favored classes discourage you from staying in your race's favored class! I would suggest that the races need to have better in game abilities that encourage sticking with, or even taking, their favored class. It may be viable to assign individualized abilities for every single race. However, I am a bit lazy ;) so I would rather come up with some common benefit that applies to all races. Thus, I present the following alternate possible solutions. Skill bonus: Whenever you gain a level in your favored class, you gain a bonus skill point. If you start at 1st level in your favored class, then you get 4 bonus skill points instead (because of the standard quadrupling of skill points at 1st level). Feat bonus: Whenever you gain five levels in your favored class, you gain a bonus feat. You may pick any feat you like, so long as you satisfy the prerequisites. Experience bonus:If the most recent level you gained was in your favored class, then whenever you gain experience, you gain a +10% bonus to that experience. Let's compare them. Pros Skill bonus: You get the bonus for every level in your favored class. This eliminates any possible cherry-picking based on favored classes. Feat bonus: You gain additional feats, which are always in short supply. Experience bonus: As with the skill bonus, you get a bonus for every level in your favored class. Cons Skill bonus:This effectively lets you max out one additional skill. This may not be powerful enough for you, depending on your preferences. Feat bonus: You get the bonus only every 5 levels, which encourages some cherry-picking. "I should go to 10th level as a dwarf fighter before I enter my prestige class, even though I qualify at 9th level, because this will allow me to gain the favored class bonus feat." IMO, this cherry-picking is mild and so not a big concern. Experience bonus: Experience is normally the sole responsibility of the DM. The experience bonus, however, would give the player some control (however slight) on this responsibility. |
| #4zombiegleemaxJun 30, 2004 23:50:37 | Ricky - I was just about to post something similar to your Experience bonus suggestion until I read it. ![]() Since I am considering removing the XP penalty for multiclassing in my campaign, implementing an experience bonus for favored classes seems like the best option. After all, a race's favored class is supposed to reflect the fact that, for example, an elf has an easier time becoming a wizard than other races do; this screams experience bonus to me. Using this method rewards staying with your favored class rather than offering no reward at all. |
| #5ahnehnoisJul 04, 2004 8:04:50 | Certainly I agree with the problem of useless favored classes. However, skill or feat benefits are (IMO) too specific to solve the problem. The skill is great for a halfling rogue, but the average dwarf fighter doesn't have nearly as much use for skill points. The same thing with feats, to a lesser degree. Does a human fighter really need that many? It seems to me that specific case-by-case power is the best answer. Give elf wizards only a Knowledge: arcana bonus, then give dwarf fighters something, and so on. The only time this becomes a serious problem is with races that have any favored class. |
| #6zombiegleemaxJul 05, 2004 10:00:11 | Whenever you advance in your favoured class, you gain 100 XP multiplied by the level you have obtained in that class. If you start (at first level) in your favoured class, then your begin with 100 XP. |
| #7DegobahJul 05, 2004 20:56:42 | I don't like favoured classes either, though my dislike runs deeper. I believe favoured classes are there to encourage say the halfling sorcerer to take a rogue level, or the dwarf cleric to take a fighter level, but it is more likely to lead to the character whose main class is their favoured class "cherry picking" other abilities. About the only thing good about it is that it does make humans seem versatile and adaptable. Personally I don't think favoured classes work because the idea of characters taking XP penalties for having "out-of-balance" levels is silly. I can't see any real justification for it, and the class combinations it prohibits aren't generally overpowered. A character who multiclasses loses focus and probably power, and the game doesn't need tacked on arbitrary rules to punish players who want to do something different and have, say, a dwarf ranger/bard or an elf rogue/fighter. Remove the XP penalty rules and favoured classes vanish automatically: most of the races already have ability score modifiers that benefit them in their best class choice (elves excepted), and that's fine. |
| #8EndarireJul 06, 2004 15:43:09 | Ricky, were your system in place, how would you handle races with 'any' as their favored class? To me, it seems to empower humans even more, and helps half-elves significantly as well. -EE |
| #977imJul 08, 2004 18:46:26 | I agree that the favored class rules in the PHB do not add much to the game. Here are some other ideas to replace favored classes: Favored Equipment. If you start as a member of your favored class, you get a piece of equipment (maybe masterwork weapon for a fighter type, a some spell scrolls for spellcasters, MW rogue's tools, etc.). Pros: Easy, and not too imbalanced: in D&D treasure is easy come, easy go. Cons: Irrelevant after 1st level. Variation: If you start the game as a member of your favored class, you get maximum starting gold. Favored Action Point Progression. Adding a rules variant to a rules variant, if you advance in your favored class (or a Prestige Class) you get action points equal to 5 + 1/2 your level; advancing in a non-favored class gets you 3 + 1/2 your level. (Credit: I first saw this idea in a post by Jack Daniel.) Pros: Easy to implement, not too imbalanced: non-favored-class characters will simply have to be more cautious. Cons: Requires use of action points, which open up their own can of worms. Favored Abilities. You can come up with a special ability for each class, and make it available to characters who have that as their favored class. For example, maybe elf wizards can get +2 caster level for a spell once per day, or halfling rogues move 3/4 speed when Hiding and Moving Silently instead of half speed. Pros: Most interesting, strongest incentive to "play to type" when picking your race and class combo. Cons: Difficult to balance, and if the abilities are too good, people who "play against type" will be envious. (You may wish to give each race multiple favored classes in order to allay this.) Variation: I've implemented something like this in my homebrew world: Complete details here. -- 77IM |
| #10zombiegleemaxJul 10, 2004 17:49:17 | Endarire, you're right that this is very powerful for humans and half-elves. I have come up with a solution. Please note that this solution assumes that you are using the skill bonus option above, because that is the option I like best. If you want to go with another option, you'll need your own solution. Humans Remove the human's bonus skill point every level. Change humans' favored class from "Any" (meaning your highest level class) to "All" (meaning every class you ever take). This means that whenever humans gain a level in anything, they get a bonus skill point (because they gained a level in their favored class). As a result, this new favored class rule does not affect the number of skill points humans get, but does allow them to multiclass in any way they please. Half-elves Don't change half-elves at all. Their favored class stays as "Any"; it does not change to "All". This means that if a half-elf stays in one class (any class) for his entire career, he gets to max out one additional skill. What I have noticed is that the -20% XP penalty for "uneven" multiclassing (the PHB's word) is so high that it's as if the option didn't exist. Whenever I have created a character with the intent of multiclassing, I have always ensured that the multiclassing was even, because the XP penalty was so high. Now, I am interested in encouraging multiclassing a bit more, because I think that will decrease my group's desire for new prestige classes, which means I need to do less work. :D To do so, I am modifying the "uneven" condition to the following: If your character's highest-level class is more than double the level of your character's lowest-level class, you suffer a -20% XP penalty. This allows characters to play, for instance, a fighter6/cleric3 with no penalties. (But a fighter7/cleric3 would cause penalties.) |
| #11zombiegleemaxJul 12, 2004 7:48:22 | I hate the whole notion of favored classes. So what, an elf who grew up among a group of human barbarians still has the favored class of wizard? An orc who grew up in a monastery still has a favored class of barbarian? Basing favored classes on race seems stupid to me. An elf could just as easily be a ranger as a wizard. Here's a house rule for this: Whatever class your character took at first level is his/her favored class. This doesn't apply to humans or half-elves. |
| #12zombiegleemaxJul 16, 2004 4:21:52 | Actually favored classes run more along the line that no matter what an elf does class wise almost every elf has some magical training. Nearly every dwarf has at least a bare minimum of martial training. Being a rouge comes so naturally to a halfling that some skill in the class is picked up for nearly every halfling. It's like saying you come from a society that rewards education so nearly every person in that society has gone through high school. It's extremely rare not to find someone who hasn't graduated from high school; but that doesn't mean it's not unheard of. That also doesn't mean that every person becomes a teacher or a professor or any other scholastic profession. But we have all the tools necessary for us to become one if we so chose to develop that. So much so that it would be easier for most to go into some sort of job that they took classes for in high school. There is no reason a character should gain any more benefit from having a favored class than it already does. |
| #13arkonth_dupJul 25, 2004 20:49:22 | While slightly off topic it's my opinion that favored classes are too selective. There are no races with cleric, druid, ranger and sorcerer as their favored classes. While I support change some compensation for these classes would have to be made or the change would have to have very little impact like the current one. |
| #14DaybreakerAug 01, 2004 19:41:38 | I think that in my next campaign, I'll start off the PCs at 2nd level and have races with favored classes start with at least one level in their favored class. |
| #15zombiegleemaxAug 03, 2004 18:17:41 | I try to think about favored classes as little as possible. When I'm writing up theoretical characters for fun I sometimes consider them, but in actual gameplay I've never bothered. I think a favored class is supposed to be a sort of guideline for the aptitudes a race has. Okay. My problem is that it's too specific. If a DM implements some of the suggested bonuses for favored classes, that makes a half-orc barbarian somehow better to a half-orc fighter. Why should this be? The half-orc's aptitude - hitting stuff hard - is reflected in its ability bonus to Strength. Yes, barbarians do that, but fighters, melee rangers, and paladins do it too. Shouldn't a half-orc in one of those stereotypes be just as good at it? And then we get to the races whose favored class has nothing to do with their abilities. When I see +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 to Search and Spot, I think "Rogue" or "Ranger," certainly not "Wizard." (I'm not a fan of the elves-as-great-mages stereotype in any case, but that's another story.) I'd much rather just let the numbers speak for themselves. |
| #16zombiegleemaxSep 01, 2004 4:14:15 | Another way to go about making Favored Classes "favored" is to give each race certain permanent class-skills, as per Starting Occupation from d20 Modern, and give all races "any" as favored class. For instant a Dwarf might get Craft (Weaponsmithing), and Intimidate as permanent class-skills, and if he picks a class at 1st level that already offers those skills, he gets a +1 competence bonus on checks with those skills. And Elves might have Knowledge (Arcane Lore) & Spellcraft as permanent class-skills. And Gnomes might have Knowledge (Arcane Lore) & Sleight of Hand as permanent class-skills. And Halflings might have Move Silently & Hide as permanent class-skills. And Half-Orcs might have Intimidate & Survival as permanent class-skills. And Humans and Half-elves would get to pick any 2 skills as permanent class-skills. This encourages the players to pick up at least one level in the "favored" class, but it doesn't restrict them in any way. The +1 competence bonus is to small to make a difference at the higher levels, but at the lower levels it can make all the difference between failure and success. Off cause since everybody is still limited by the "favored class"-rule, many players will continue in their racial favored class, and those that doesn't can still gain knowledge, normally restricted to those classes. But by adding 2 extra class-skills, you might open the door for some unusual basic class/prestige class combinations, but the impact shouldn't be too great. |
| #17zombiegleemaxSep 15, 2004 17:01:35 | Most of your PC's will play human to circumvent that. That’s just not fair an elven sorcerer HAS to take wizards lvls? Dude that’s just wrong. |
| #18zombiegleemaxOct 01, 2004 5:26:44 | I like em! I think it is good that they reinforce stereotypes! Don't you? However, I will admit that there are always exceptions to the rule. I think the simplest solution, one that I myself use, is to let a player alter his race's favored class with the DM's permission. Of course, the player has to give a good reason. "I want to change my guy's favored class to wizard because I want to make a Dwarven Mystic Theurge build." is not going to cut it! My new idea is: When each character gains their first character level they gain a special ability based on their race's favored class. If a character's first class level is in his favored class then they recieve an extra 200xp bonus in addition to their normal favored class benefits. Human: Jack of all trades, designate any 3 skills as class skills; +1 (racial) bonus to any two saves of your choice -Or- +2 to any one save of your choice. Dwarves: Appraise and Disable Device (stonework traps only) is a class skill; 1 bonus [fighter] feat. Elves: Use magic device, Decipher Script, Knowledge (Arcana) become class skills. From a spellbook, may cast two 0 level arcane spells per day. Gnome: Gain Perform (any) as a class skill. May use Fascinate(sp) 1/day as a 1st level bard. +2 (racial) bonus to 2 Knowledge (any) skills, once chosen they may not be changed. Half-Elves: Jack of all trades, designate any 3 skills as class skills; +1 (racial) bonus to any two saves of your choice -Or- +2 to any one save of your choice. Half-Orc: Intimidate is a class skill; a +2 bonus is gained on all Intimidate checks; +2 to fort saves, 2 free martial weapon proficiencies. Halflings: Hide, Move Silently, and Tumble, become class skills. +1 damage under same conditions as a sneak attack. Yes, I acknowledge that thes abilities strengthen 1st level characters. But is that ever really a bad thing? After 1st level most of these abilities will not mean too much. I also tried to keep the races with ANY as a favored class a little stronger. To simplify work for the DM, these rules can be made PC only, at their discretion. I also like the idea about giving any PC who takes a level in a favored class 100 xp x character level bonus. This bonus should be calculated after the level is gained. This bonus does not apply until a character gains their 2nd character level. EX1. Jonn decides to create a new PC. He makes this PC an Elf 1st level wizard. He gains no xp bonus because this bonus does not come into effect until 2nd level. EX2. Jonn's PC gains enough xp to advance a level. If he becomes an Elf 2nd level wizard he gains a bonus of 200 xp. If he becomes an Elf 1st level wizard/ 1st level cleric (any class other than wizard) he gains no bonus. EX3. Kamal has a Dwarf 4th level Cleric/ 3rd level Rogue PC. Kamal's PC gains enough xp to advance another level. If he becomes a Dwarf 4th level Cleric/ 4th level Rogue he gains no bonus. If he becomes an Dwarf 4th level Cleric/ 3rd level Rogue/ 1st level fighter he gains a 800 xp bonus. If this isn't clear by now. I'm afraid I can't help you. Feedback and suggestions are as always welcome, Bill |
| #19zombiegleemaxOct 12, 2004 9:06:25 | I've always thought that the idea of the favoured class was that (if you play a non-human) the combination of racial abilities and that class produces a versatile version of the class, where as a human will tend to be specialised particularly to that class - as an explanation, an elf wizard is a slightly more fight-y wizard, with those weapon proficiencies, and has some sort of rogue functionality (the secret door sense thing), a halfling wizard will produce a more rogue-y wizard (on the way to arcane trickster), or a more rogue-y fighter etc., whereas a human will tend to have a bonus feat to advance them in the first class. M |
| #20zombiegleemaxOct 12, 2004 22:06:15 | What favoured classes and experience penalties do: They make it inadvisable to stray from the 2nd ed conventions of dual classing or multi classing. Dual classing was available to humans only, and allowed them to have two classes with highly different levels of skill. Multi classing was available to nonhumans, and allowed them to have two or more classes with similar levels of skill. Finally, adding favoured classes to non-humans (rather than simply not allowing non-humans to dual class) means that a dual class is likely to include that race's favoured class. It does encourage a stereotype to some degree - halflings are likely to be slightly rogueish, dwarves slightly fighterish and elves slightly wizardish - but it doesn't totally obliterate the possibilities of going down other paths. Personally I'd just take it out, but I can see the function that it serves. |
| #21hieraticalOct 13, 2004 11:11:30 | My take on favored class is that it is what a large number of the race dabble in. For example, you might meet experts or aristocrats with a level of wizard in an elven society, and warriors or adepts with a level of bard in a Gnome society. |
| #22belladonna5012Oct 13, 2004 15:13:53 | I never saw any need to encourage people to bend to stereotypes. Further, it's only an advantage or disadvantage in certain instances--if you're going single-class your entire career, it never comes up (as has been mentioned earlier). It takes viable options away from you, but it does nothing to weaken the options you still have; often, those options you lose wouldn't be more powerful than the ones you still have anyway. There's no balance element in favoured class; it's simply to encourage stereotyping. Further, look at various races' abilities and contrast them with their favoured classes. Their favoured classes are obviously cultural in almost all, if not all, cases. Dwarves, with a bonus to Con, would be better Barbarians than Fighters, but they get Fighter as a favoured class because their society doesn't encourage the Barbarian's wild style. Elves, with bonuses to Dex, Search, Spot, Listen, and the ability to automatically spot secret doors, just scream "ROGUE! ROGUE! ROGUE!" There's nothing that says Wizard, not at all. Now see drow. Female drow get Cleric as a favoured class--why? Not because of anything innate; they have the same game characteristics as male drow. It's just that their society encourages them to enter the clergy, whereas male drow are excluded from it and pushed towards wizardry instead. Also, consider that half-elves normally have "Any" as a favoured class--but the "half-human elf" variant in the DMG gives them Wizard as a favoured class, because they grew up in elven society, not human society. Since favoured class is cultural, it does not account in any way, shape, or form for members of a given race who grew up in a culture different from the standard. For instance, a dwarf raised by elves has Fighter as a favoured class despite the fact that the culture's encouraged class is Wizard. Further, being cultural, favoured class shouldn't have anything to do with the character's options once they're adventuring, because they're no longer "tied down" to their home culture in most occasions--they don't need to deal with social pressures towards one class or another when they're spending most of their time on the road with a mixed party. To this end, favoured class being associated with XP penalties or the lack thereof must go, as it's not harder for an elf to be a Monk rather than a Wizard once they're adventuring and no longer bound to their home culture--if one has difficulty finding training to be a Monk (or resources to train oneself) among other elves (presumably an explanation for the XP penalty), one can find training in another culture, thus negating the cultural explanation of favoured class as well, at least as far as making the difference between having a 20% XP penalty and not having it. ~Belladonna Knight |
| #23oakspar77777Nov 15, 2004 1:30:49 | Start applying the XP penalty to PrCs in your campaign and see how quickly they matter as a functional limit on cherry picking (if only from base classes in the current rules). I am a fan of my Pcs taking 20 levels in ONE class, and have reworked any PrCs that they have wanted into 20 level classes. That being said, I think the XP bonus is preferable to the XP penalties, and multiclassing should simple be denied altogether (and replaced with base classes, such as a 20 level arcane trickster for people who want to play a Rogue/Wizard blend) or else punished further (all multiclassing causes a 10% XP hit per extra class, thus if one class is a favored class, it balances out). Humans should have no favored class, since they are equally good at everything, but should receive something else instead (I would argue a second skill point at each level). Half Elves (if your campaign even allows the things), should be treated likewise as humans, or, better yet, the classes should be shifted so that Elves get Sorcerer, Gnomes get Wizard, and Half Elves get Bard. That make-up reflects the flavor of the races so much better. Well, that is my 2cp. |
| #24roxlimnDec 06, 2004 6:35:59 | Or better yet, limit the Prestige Classes each character can take to one, and rework the rules so that taking each class is actually desirable in some fashion. Let's take the Elf. Wizard is their favored class and I guarantee that it practically never sees any use. Who even knows that Elves get Wizard as their favored class? The reason behind this isn't because or isn't only because favored classes are largely unusable until you multiclass but more so because Wizards suffer horrendously from multiclassing. Since no one sane wants to multiclass Wizards anyway, who cares if you get a minor benefit from a very specific multiclassing option? No one, that's who. Now I once ran a campaign in which people got caster levels equal to class levels and thereafter I ran a campaign in which caster level was based on a particular skill rank, not an actual class level. With caster levels finally being competitive for the purposes of spell effects and spell resistance penetration, you can bet everyone was scrambling for that magic powah! Fighters, Barbarians, Rogues all began to look at the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list as open season and who couldn't be more pleased than the Elf! The Dwarven Fighter and the Halfling Rogue welcomed the change, too, as they can take advantage of the chances just as well as the Elf could. Then again, when I had supplemented the Fighter class with Fighter-only feats, the Dwarf was well pleased, too. As did other characters who belonged to their respective favored classes. Allow me to put up a disclaimer at this point. I do not generally encourage "cherry-picking." Of course, this presumes that I understand what was so bad about "cherry-picking" to begin with. Multiclassing is supposed to allow you to dabble slightly in other classes. That's what the favored class mechanism is all about. Well designed classes in this system should not give you such an undue advantage by taking just the first level that a dilettante ends up being master of the house. In such a case, it would probably be the classes that need reworking, not the favored class system. Having said that, the system isn't perfect. A Human and Half-elf, actually are at something of a disadvantage because they cannot choose which class is their favored one. This leads to some rather strange occurrences such as the multiclass Fighter/Rogue Human advancing equally being the least flexible character in the system, whereas an Elf doing the same is still quite free to dabble in magic. I have house ruled the favored class: any ability so that Humans and Half-elves can freely designate which class is their favored class, giving such characters unbridled and unmatchable flexibility in advancing class combinations. |
| #25zombiegleemaxDec 09, 2004 6:05:13 | I've never had a problem in my games with favoured class, but then my players don't have any issues with stereotypes. Favoured classes only hurt when you try to go against them in crazed multiclassing rushes, this isn't entirely a bad thing. I've even gone a step further and had unfavoured classes, where races receive an Exp penalty for taking certain classes, like Dwarven Wizard or Gnome Fighters. The way I see favoured class is that they allow a character to easily multiclass with certain classes and it better supports whatever class you've taken with abilities of that type. A Halfling Cleric of Trickery and Death benefits from Rogue levels, An Elven Fighter might take to being an Eldritch Knight easier than a Gnome. The 3.5 change to favoured classes in gnomes was bad because it effected existing builds in a massive way. |
| #26taltamirDec 10, 2004 4:15:14 | How does one define race? Most favored classes seem to stem from the so called "race" society. As such its an ENTHNIC thing, not an inherent bodily trait, of course those vary as well. I say completely eliminate XP penalty for multiclassing, what's to prevent people from taking a million classes? the fact they actually wanna GET somewhere with any of those (1st level spells in 10 classes isn't comparable to level 5 in one class). If anything, the XP penalty should only apply when multiclassing PRESTIEGE CLASSES (since those supposedly define what your character is) As such, if not doing away with the concept of favored class all together, make it an individual thing. A country bumpkin isn't gonna be a natural wizard, the son of a wizard might though (if his father trained him some). An orphan who was raised in a church is more likely to be a better cleric simply because he has been learning about it all his life, especially during those younger more important years. He could have realisations about what it takes to be a cleric that he learned at age three that some priests with different backgrounds cannot conceive. (Just as we all know those who cannot conceive, or accept, certain thing they learn in physics class :P) And if you make it so, give the 10% XP bonus. I think its perfectly fitting, and it will also make the fav class encourage people to keep that class, rather then encouraging them to multiclass. When I design characters I use THEM to "metathink." A high int wizard will cherry pick his spells (Mmm, if I get this magic item and this spell and so and so, I will be an unstoppable killing machine. Mmm, lets see, from my reading I know there are so and so monsters in the world, maybe I should learn these spells to overcome their magic defenses). A low int fighter is likely to not be as wise in selecting his progress, and is more likely to choose things because they are cool then because of their effectiveness (I am gonna become an expert in wielding giant swords, because they are just so AWESOME). A high wis cleric might be more concerned with "what really matters in life." I can see a NG cleric I play focusing on healing more then on damaging because he wants to truly be able to help the needy-- to be able to better cure the random sick he comes across. |
| #27ahnehnoisDec 12, 2004 18:18:30 | what's to prevent people from taking a million classes? The fact that they want a good character. Multi-classing among base classes in 3e is neither powerful nor sensible. The prestige classes are a bigger issue, but the current rules do not address that. The problem is, elves don't make particularly good wizards. Favored class should be a benefit, not the removal of a drawback. |
| #28zombiegleemaxDec 13, 2004 15:10:37 | Here's my solution: Give them a bonus level in their favored class at character creation. Essentially each player starts at second level, taking one class of their choice at first level so they have control of starting hit die size and skill points, then a second level in their favored class. This keeps humans flexible as it can any class they want, elves are innately better wizards, dwarves more skilled with arms, and rogues with sneaking, Gnomes with geniality, and so on. I don't count EXP for this bonus level against players, because if their favored class doesn't sync up with their character concept then I don't want them to work harder to get to a prestige class. This means that a dedicated elf wizard reaches 3 lvl spells at 4th level, which may be a problem in your campaign, though if my players ever get uppity or too powerful, they just fight harder things and that's the end of it. Come to think of it, allowing elves to reach that higher level spell early makes them much better wizards, which was the point of favored classes anyway. Humans are just as good if they want to be, but that's kind of the humans' shtick anyway. My players LOVE this. I do too, because as a DM I prefer to get things started at level two anyhow. It also sets up great roleplay situations. A PC could be an initiate monk that turned her back on the monastery to take up a cloak and dagger career as a rogue. Or a halfling thief that became a man of the cloth! Mom and Pop could have wanted their darling elf to be a great wizard when at the last moment he decided he wanted to sing as a bard for a living instead. Of course, you could have that kind of backstory to begin with, but I think a bonus level gives it more panache. |
| #29taltamirDec 14, 2004 19:28:27 | The fact that they want a good character. Multi-classing among base classes in 3e is neither powerful nor sensible. The prestige classes are a bigger issue, but the current rules do not address that. The problem is, elves don't make particularly good wizards. Favored class should be a benefit, not the removal of a drawback. Reading the sentence after and before that one indicates it to be a RHETORICAL QUESTION! As for the bonus level idea. Its good, it also makes more sense, as no trainer would just kick out their student at such a low level of achievement. Heck, if they actually graduated from a prestigious mage academy/warrior school/large temple they should be started at level 3 or so... |
| #30peter_the_hegemonDec 15, 2004 0:39:41 | Elves are supposed to have the most magical society around, but the only racial ability that reflects this fact is their bonus to Intelligence. Just a niggle--Elves are +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution; unless you're using one of the plethora of elven subraces, they have no bonus to Intelligence. ![]() |
| #31thorofasgard13Mar 13, 2009 6:48:27 | All this talk of favoured classes, does anyone know the favoured classes of true dragons? |