Giving Magic Where Magic Isn't Due (Assassin) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Giving Magic Where Magic Isn't Due (Assassin)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 19, 2005 3:46:50 Unless you are in a world where magic runs rampant (greater than even that of Eberron), one may begin to think that some characters were given magical abilities as a matter of game balance as opposed to character design. Back in first edition, the Ranger was given not only Druid spells, which made some sense, but Mage spells as well. Now some of these quasi magic users, like the Paladin, have abilities that derive from the philosophical design of their class. The Paladin is so devout to their faith/morals that the gods grant him spells. The Bard, on the other hand, is the textbook jack-of-all-trades. She is a dabbler and traveler who picks up a formidable array of magical spells. Neither the Paladin nor the Bard can or is expected to compete with the Cleric or Mage spell for spell, but the abilities are relevant to their class.

As for the Assassin prestige class, she uses stealth, poisons, recon and the blade to dispatch both powerful PC's and powerful, well protected NPCs alike. I feel that magic has no place in the design of the character. Don't get me wrong, an Assassin/Sorcerer or Assassin/Cleric can be a nearly unbeatable killer. With a possible selection of darkness, silence and invisibility spells, magic use is a useful option but not necessary or mandatory. Like the options in the Complete Fighter for Paladins and Rangers without spells, the Assassin can opt out of spell like abilities for different skills and qualities.

Base attack bonus: Increase the base attack to +1 for every level after first.
(+9 at 10th level)

Special abilities:

Mortal Wound - At 1st level the viciousness of an Assassin's attack causes all Death Attcks to do an option of 1 point of wounding damage per level in lieu of sneak attack damage. (Example: Zarlitha the seventh level Assassin would do 7 points of wounding damage on an unsuccessful Death Attack instead of 4d6 sneak attack damage. It should be noted that if Zarlitha had enough rogue levels to do sneak attack damage, those would be done in addition to the wounding damage.) Wounding damage can only be cured by magical healing or regeneration.

Street Contacts:

Every other level (2nd,4th, etc…) the Assassin gains one special item/knowledge of an intended target. The Assassin can only get one per bonus from intelligence(minmum 1) per day. The list as follows.

Special defense - The Assassin can find out 1 special or magical defense the intended victim has (stoneskin, damage reduction, etc...). This does not give the Assassin the ability to counter the defense.

Poison - The Assassin can find rare poisons on the black market. Any poison with a cost of 300gp/level can be found. The Assassin still has to pay for the itemx2 for the haste in acquiring it.

Special Attack - the Assassin learns one special attack/item of the intended victim (magic weapons, spell use, Death Attack ability)

Body Guards - The assassins learn of any partners or cohorts who might aid the victim before or after the attack.

Extra Contract - If paid for the assassination, the Assassin can earn d100% more by discovering another contract on the same person.

These should make up for the lack of spells the Assassin normally has access to, and seems to keep in line with the feel of an Assassin.
#2
zombiegleemax
Feb 15, 2005 21:15:45 All right, I agree that the assassin does not need spells, but let the character get 1 spell-like ability off the magic list for the assassin per level to allow players to exercise the almost supernatural abilities of the assassin. :evillaugh
#3
lord_zeb_02
Feb 17, 2005 11:57:04 I like this variant:

Instead of an independent spell list and progression, set it up for every odd level to be +1 CL or 1 Bonus Feat. The bonus feats could be from a separate list, and maybe even include Rogue special abilities if you are feeling generous.
#4
zombiegleemax
Feb 18, 2005 12:10:17 So we're saying no magic, all well and good. But giving it feats at every other level would make it better than a Fighter base class. Maybe give it a feat at 3, 6, and 9, but not every other level. Or maybe give it better SA instead of anything else. Or even (like I've done with a chameleon/man race in a campaign) give it a Stealth ability, which really means give big bonuses to Hide and MS. Or, even giving him bonuses like the monk's AC bonus, but for Intel, like a + to hit or just leave it AC bonus. It's supposed to be a killer that is able to kill with the simplest objects, not reliant on something as fluctuating as magic. My personal assassin had a Anti Magic Amulet surgically implant into his chest. Everything made of magic that comes within 5' of me is now harmless to me. So, a magicless assassin would be more with the "assassin" story.
#5
ares
Feb 18, 2005 14:24:50 I've always reasoned that the reason that assassins get spells is less of spellcasting but are meant to be seen as "assassin techniques" which manifest themselves in game terms as spells. Since it would be difficult to put all of them down as a feat or special ability in the progression list for the class, they just gave it spells.
#6
crashy75
Feb 21, 2005 14:28:15 I agree wholeheartedly about the overuse of spell-casters (and to a lesser extent the use of supernatural and spell like abilities) among prestige classes. One thing though, what was that about the bab? A +0 at first level and then +1/lev after that. Can't agree with that. Give 'em +1/lev. No need for that.
#7
madscientist_02
Feb 22, 2005 16:58:28 The thing is, I see it perfectly in flavor for an Assassin to learn a few spells to complete his set of tools. They are supposed to be intelligent, opportunistic and cunning. They are supposed to use every trick in the book to take down their enemy, and I see Arcane magic as an analogue to more modern technology. If you want to take away their magic, then do so, but I personally believe that it is fine.
#8
danielinthewolvesden
Feb 23, 2005 2:05:51 And the Assassin has some of the very best spells of all. I'd just lose the spellcasting entirely. AND, I wouldn't add much back. It's already powerful, and greatly desired.
#9
icefractal
Mar 01, 2005 4:06:00 I think the spellcasting fits just fine. In a world where spells like Invisibility, Silence, Poison, Passwall, Scrying, and Dimension Door exist, the smart assassin explores magical as well as mundane means of plying their trade.

I wouldn't be adverse to making a spell-less assassin though, much like the spell-less rangers you see; however, the replacement abilities should balance the loss of spells, which are a very powerful feature.

The current implementation seems a bit front loaded. You get wounding attacks right away, and then just contact information, which, while useful to a normal assassin, isn't very much so for a PC one, who's most likely not going after just one target. Giving feats instead of spellcasting doesn't seem so hot either, most people would agree that "being able to cast invisibility" > "a bonus feat".
#10
korimyr_the_rat
Mar 01, 2005 17:17:38 My standard House Rule for half-casters is that they are able to exchange their spell levels for one bonus feat at every level they would receive a new level of spells-- 4, 8, 11, and 14 for Paladins and Rangers. I try to make sure the feat list is appropriate for each class: Rangers get Scout bonus feats, while Paladins have a subset of Fighter feats plus the Divine feats.

I could extend that benefit to Assassins as well, though I think with their combat style and the spells they have access to, they're probably better off taking the spells.
#11
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2005 8:28:40 My only problem is the fact that in my campaigns, dead magic areas are common! And the bad guys love to hide in them. I like to be able to rely on what I can do rather than what magic can do for me. I need to be able to rely on my skills as an assassin 24/7 and not worry if I'm about to not be able to go invis. (( or the like ))
#12
zombiegleemax
Mar 05, 2005 14:41:00 I'm certainly sympathetic to wanting assassins without magic. Really, I'd like far more classes with no magic at all. That's not the baseline with D&D though, almost every class has spells or magic abilities, of the 11 core classes only 3 (Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue) don't get magic. Given that I'm not wild about barbarians in my low magic political intrigue style game, I end up statting up a lot of Fighters and Rogues...

The general magic level of the D&D class rules is very high, something like Forgotten Realms seems like a reasonable result of the rules, in that setting spellcasting assassins seems fine. In a more magically restrained setting the class system generally would need an overhaul.

-Stephen

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 19, 2005 3:46:50	Unless you are in a world where magic runs rampant (greater than even that of Eberron), one may begin to think that some characters were given magical abilities as a matter of game balance as opposed to character design. Back in first edition, the Ranger was given not only Druid spells, which made some sense, but Mage spells as well. Now some of these quasi magic users, like the Paladin, have abilities that derive from the philosophical design of their class. The Paladin is so devout to their faith/morals that the gods grant him spells. The Bard, on the other hand, is the textbook jack-of-all-trades. She is a dabbler and traveler who picks up a formidable array of magical spells. Neither the Paladin nor the Bard can or is expected to compete with the Cleric or Mage spell for spell, but the abilities are relevant to their class. As for the Assassin prestige class, she uses stealth, poisons, recon and the blade to dispatch both powerful PC's and powerful, well protected NPCs alike. I feel that magic has no place in the design of the character. Don't get me wrong, an Assassin/Sorcerer or Assassin/Cleric can be a nearly unbeatable killer. With a possible selection of darkness, silence and invisibility spells, magic use is a useful option but not necessary or mandatory. Like the options in the Complete Fighter for Paladins and Rangers without spells, the Assassin can opt out of spell like abilities for different skills and qualities. Base attack bonus: Increase the base attack to +1 for every level after first. (+9 at 10th level) Special abilities: Mortal Wound - At 1st level the viciousness of an Assassin's attack causes all Death Attcks to do an option of 1 point of wounding damage per level in lieu of sneak attack damage. (Example: Zarlitha the seventh level Assassin would do 7 points of wounding damage on an unsuccessful Death Attack instead of 4d6 sneak attack damage. It should be noted that if Zarlitha had enough rogue levels to do sneak attack damage, those would be done in addition to the wounding damage.) Wounding damage can only be cured by magical healing or regeneration. Street Contacts: Every other level (2nd,4th, etc…) the Assassin gains one special item/knowledge of an intended target. The Assassin can only get one per bonus from intelligence(minmum 1) per day. The list as follows. Special defense - The Assassin can find out 1 special or magical defense the intended victim has (stoneskin, damage reduction, etc...). This does not give the Assassin the ability to counter the defense. Poison - The Assassin can find rare poisons on the black market. Any poison with a cost of 300gp/level can be found. The Assassin still has to pay for the itemx2 for the haste in acquiring it. Special Attack - the Assassin learns one special attack/item of the intended victim (magic weapons, spell use, Death Attack ability) Body Guards - The assassins learn of any partners or cohorts who might aid the victim before or after the attack. Extra Contract - If paid for the assassination, the Assassin can earn d100% more by discovering another contract on the same person. These should make up for the lack of spells the Assassin normally has access to, and seems to keep in line with the feel of an Assassin.
#2 zombiegleemax Feb 15, 2005 21:15:45	All right, I agree that the assassin does not need spells, but let the character get 1 spell-like ability off the magic list for the assassin per level to allow players to exercise the almost supernatural abilities of the assassin. :evillaugh
#3 lord_zeb_02 Feb 17, 2005 11:57:04	I like this variant: Instead of an independent spell list and progression, set it up for every odd level to be +1 CL or 1 Bonus Feat. The bonus feats could be from a separate list, and maybe even include Rogue special abilities if you are feeling generous.
#4 zombiegleemax Feb 18, 2005 12:10:17	So we're saying no magic, all well and good. But giving it feats at every other level would make it better than a Fighter base class. Maybe give it a feat at 3, 6, and 9, but not every other level. Or maybe give it better SA instead of anything else. Or even (like I've done with a chameleon/man race in a campaign) give it a Stealth ability, which really means give big bonuses to Hide and MS. Or, even giving him bonuses like the monk's AC bonus, but for Intel, like a + to hit or just leave it AC bonus. It's supposed to be a killer that is able to kill with the simplest objects, not reliant on something as fluctuating as magic. My personal assassin had a Anti Magic Amulet surgically implant into his chest. Everything made of magic that comes within 5' of me is now harmless to me. So, a magicless assassin would be more with the "assassin" story.
#5 ares Feb 18, 2005 14:24:50	I've always reasoned that the reason that assassins get spells is less of spellcasting but are meant to be seen as "assassin techniques" which manifest themselves in game terms as spells. Since it would be difficult to put all of them down as a feat or special ability in the progression list for the class, they just gave it spells.
#6 crashy75 Feb 21, 2005 14:28:15	I agree wholeheartedly about the overuse of spell-casters (and to a lesser extent the use of supernatural and spell like abilities) among prestige classes. One thing though, what was that about the bab? A +0 at first level and then +1/lev after that. Can't agree with that. Give 'em +1/lev. No need for that.
#7 madscientist_02 Feb 22, 2005 16:58:28	The thing is, I see it perfectly in flavor for an Assassin to learn a few spells to complete his set of tools. They are supposed to be intelligent, opportunistic and cunning. They are supposed to use every trick in the book to take down their enemy, and I see Arcane magic as an analogue to more modern technology. If you want to take away their magic, then do so, but I personally believe that it is fine.
#8 danielinthewolvesden Feb 23, 2005 2:05:51	And the Assassin has some of the very best spells of all. I'd just lose the spellcasting entirely. AND, I wouldn't add much back. It's already powerful, and greatly desired.
#9 icefractal Mar 01, 2005 4:06:00	I think the spellcasting fits just fine. In a world where spells like Invisibility, Silence, Poison, Passwall, Scrying, and Dimension Door exist, the smart assassin explores magical as well as mundane means of plying their trade. I wouldn't be adverse to making a spell-less assassin though, much like the spell-less rangers you see; however, the replacement abilities should balance the loss of spells, which are a very powerful feature. The current implementation seems a bit front loaded. You get wounding attacks right away, and then just contact information, which, while useful to a normal assassin, isn't very much so for a PC one, who's most likely not going after just one target. Giving feats instead of spellcasting doesn't seem so hot either, most people would agree that "being able to cast invisibility" > "a bonus feat".
#10 korimyr_the_rat Mar 01, 2005 17:17:38	My standard House Rule for half-casters is that they are able to exchange their spell levels for one bonus feat at every level they would receive a new level of spells-- 4, 8, 11, and 14 for Paladins and Rangers. I try to make sure the feat list is appropriate for each class: Rangers get Scout bonus feats, while Paladins have a subset of Fighter feats plus the Divine feats. I could extend that benefit to Assassins as well, though I think with their combat style and the spells they have access to, they're probably better off taking the spells.
#11 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2005 8:28:40	My only problem is the fact that in my campaigns, dead magic areas are common! And the bad guys love to hide in them. I like to be able to rely on what I can do rather than what magic can do for me. I need to be able to rely on my skills as an assassin 24/7 and not worry if I'm about to not be able to go invis. (( or the like ))
#12 zombiegleemax Mar 05, 2005 14:41:00	I'm certainly sympathetic to wanting assassins without magic. Really, I'd like far more classes with no magic at all. That's not the baseline with D&D though, almost every class has spells or magic abilities, of the 11 core classes only 3 (Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue) don't get magic. Given that I'm not wild about barbarians in my low magic political intrigue style game, I end up statting up a lot of Fighters and Rogues... The general magic level of the D&D class rules is very high, something like Forgotten Realms seems like a reasonable result of the rules, in that setting spellcasting assassins seems fine. In a more magically restrained setting the class system generally would need an overhaul. -Stephen