by Michael A. Musselman (technoelement2020)
Oerik. Oerth. The Flanaess. Greyhawk. These names should mean something to any true Dungeons & Dragons fan. It is true that to fully appreciate the present, we must look further back to the past, and appreciate or at the very least acknowledge it. Where it not for the past, after all, the present would not be as it is for us. Therefore, I urge that the classics be acknowledged and appreciated by all, or we will forget our heritage.
Greyhawk is the classic and original setting for Dungeons & Dragons. This is the place where it all started. The Temple of Elemental Evil, The Tomb of Horrors, and even Castle Greyhawk itself are all locations the “old wizards” will recall. Without Greyhawk, I fear that we would not have the same game we do today. Let us take a brief look at the classic that started it all.
Long ago, there was a great war between two nations, The Suel Imperium and the Baklunish Empire. The end results of this war haunt the modern day in the setting. The two warring nations called down Armageddon’s on one another, and it was exactly that. Their worlds scorched, they migrated east, into the Flanaess. All that was left of these two nations became known as the Dry Steppes and the Sea of Dust. The actions of these two nations would forever change the face of the Flanaess.
Many kingdoms and allegiances were formed and destroyed in the Flanaess, and it is here that the Free City of Greyhawk is found. There was a great war, which was eventually ended by treaty in Greyhawk. Oddly enough, because of this, the war became known as the Greyhawk Wars. A great evil has risen in the north, The Empire of Iuz, ruled by a very sadistic and evil half-fiend demigod. It is even rumored that Iuz has built a road of human skulls all the way to his capital, Dorakaa. With many kingdoms crumbling and trying to rebuild themselves after the war, now is the time for adventure. We are brought to the present in Greyhawk.
The Flanaess is a land ripe for adventure, waiting for its future to be shaped by the present. This is the world that the players are emerged in. The possibilities are limited only by imagination, and are given life by creativity. In no other land will you find such endless adventures, nor such great heroes, than in Greyhawk. In truth that is what makes Greyhawk so great, the fact that it is so open for everyone to have any type of game that they wish. Greyhawk is a setting where anything is possible.
The reason that Greyhawk is so unlimited is because it is not as heavily detailed as some of the other settings are. This leaves more up to the Dungeon Master and Players, as they can add anything they wish into the world, without worry of it not fitting. Some Dungeon Masters and Players alike do not like this type of openness, and would rather that things be as detailed and clear-cut for them, and this is perfectly fine. However, to the many of fans who would love to be able to create more than recreate, Greyhawk is the perfect setting.
Greyhawk is our past and our heritage, and is at its very core what Dungeons & Dragons stands for. For those of you looking for a setting in which you can truly inject yourself and your other players in, look no further than the world of Greyhawk. Our past, our present, and indeed our future are wide open and waiting. Take your first step into a land of adventure and intrigue. Take your first step into the Flanaess.
For more information on the setting of Greyhawk, you need look no further than the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, brought to you by Wizards of the Coast and the RPGA. Also, you can check out the Official Greyhawk Messageboard at: http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=353
Greyhawk lives in the hearts of thousands of gamers and past gamers as a home away from home. The rough and tumble world my first character sprung to life, lived, loved and died. Who knew you could love a dwarf?
I started in 1981. I've tried every world/ setting that has come out and several home brew worlds and always gone back to my love, my home - Greyhawk. Why?
Because to me Greyhawk is D&D. It is the essence of adventure. There is no Elminster to save the world. There is enough adventure, enough intrigue, enough wars in Greyhawk that the Circle of Eight is overwhelmed. Has anyone been able to get anywhere near to killing Elminster? To bad. The Circle has been attacked, how many times? Several have been killed. Greyhawk is not the safe fluffy world gamers today seem to associate gaming with. Greyhawk is on the edge, its rough, it is adventure with a capital "A".
To me if you are a Greyhawker - you are a gamer.
If you play anything else - you are just a fluff!
The problem with Greyhawk wasn't that Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance was better , as such, but simply that they were more detailed.
I own the old Greyhawk boxed set, and I still believe it to be one of the most worthless products I have ever purchased. There is nothing within it that saves you a substantial amount of time to run a game - and if you're going to have to do the work anyway, you might as well do it in your own world as opposed to Gygax's. Fundamentally the only thing in the Greyhawk set that I ever even considered using was the map - and nowadays, with products like Fractal Mapper and Campaign Cartographer, making maps is easy.
This is unfortunate, because there have been some truly great adventures set within Greyhawk (Fate of Istus is a personal favourite), but the actual products themselves read very like the collected notes of any other DM's home brewed world (which is exactly what Greyhawk is). I doubt anyone else could use my notes for Shayatan and run a campaign with it; I just never bothered to detail it to the extent that it was a publishable product. I submit that Greyhawk is the same - much as I dislike the Forgotten Realms as an actual campaign world, the source material is far more complete and useful to a DM than anything with the Greyhawk logo.
I'm not suggesting that gaming with Gygax would have been a colourless, boring affair - although some of his descriptions in Dragon of the early adventures he ran sound rather dated nowadays - but most of Greyhawk's appeal is still buried somewhere within his head, because the published material just doesn't capture the magic for me.
All IMHO, of course.
Spread the word Greyhawk forever!
The woodsman a bit of a zealot over the subject
Aso, Gazza, I think WotC’s reason for not putting out more Oerth material (thus making it more detailed) is because of the Forgotten Realms novel series. If you've read any of the old Greyhawk novels you'll see that most of it coincides with the world itself bringing the reader closer to not only a Campaign Setting but to the characters they play in it. Thus, forgotten realms publishes countless books for readers every year hence bringing more recognition to the setting than Oerth ever will if writers don't get on the ball.
This is, of course, just my 0.02 cp
Originally posted by GAZZA
Still not seeing the appeal here.
Try this: http://veluna.living-greyhawk.com/what_plot.html
I've played D&D for more than 20 years now. Of the many hobbies and interests of my life D&D has remained while many others have fallen by the wayside. I now have a burgeoning second career writing d20 material. And yet I am somehow not a "true Dungeons & Dragons fan" ‘cos I don't have a warm, fuzzy place in my heart for Greyhawk.
I am however willing to concede that this may not and probably was not Michael A. Musselman's intent, and perhaps I am being overly sensitive, but this hints at implied elitism. While I would never deny anyone their own interests or opinions, elitism is something with which I do have a problem.
I can add my own seasonings to the dish without ruining some standardized canon material with Greyhawk.
I feel like in other settings, namely FR, that due to the overwhelming amount of detail, there is little left for me to create.
This taste may not suit some people, and that is fine. It isn't good or ill in my opinion.
Some people like to have everything defined for them. It saves time, effort, etc.
Some people like to have just a framework to flesh out as they see fit. It allows them more creative liberties, and a touch of personalization.
Personally I prefer the dark, gritty, dangerous nature of Greyhawk. No fluff please.
Yet I must say, to each their own.
Originally posted by GAZZA
Still not seeing the appeal here.
I own the old Greyhawk boxed set, and I still believe it to be one of the most worthless products I have ever purchased.
I'd give this credence if the following hadn't been said:
There is nothing within it that saves you a substantial amount of time to run a game.
This takes away any validity to the statement. As the others summed up, some like everything handed down to you, pregenerated worlds to take work away from you.
Fine. But to me that seems lacking in effort and creativity. That is what is good about Greyhawk, it lets you put your effort and creativity into it as a DM.
For me I loved the basics that Greyhawk gave me, not only did it leave me with ideas from what was writen, but room for new ideas of my own, when I wasn't up to creating a whole new world. As you totally miss that point with the next statement:
- and if you're going to have to do the work anyway, you might as well do it in your own world as opposed to Gygax's
I've played in and run countless Greyhawk campaigns. Not once was an adventure the same, even with the modules. Because each DM presented them in their own way, with their own tie-ins and changes.
And everytime I've played it, it was great, because it takes the effort and creativity to make a Greyhawk Campaign, so those DMs that tackle it, tend to be good.
There isn't anything wrong with campaign settings like Forgotten Realms, and you can still change it how you want, but when you do it feels like you are taking something away from it.
And creating your own worlds is great also, but from experience, I know it takes tons of work to make it a living breathing world.
While for me with Greyhawk, it is like it is inviting me in. With just enough details stirring my mind on what new stories I can run with each new group I'm in, and what new character I can run and make a place for it, if I'm playing in it.
Originally posted by Sulaco
While I can appreciate the fondness and nostalgia that many fans hold for early D&D products like Greyhawk, I do somewhat resent the implication that I or anyone else who doesn't hold them in the same regard is not a "true fan".
Nay friend, I said those name should mean something to any true D&D fan. Something does not mean they should be that persons favorite thing, but merely that they should acknowledge their existence in D&D past.
Originally posted by Sulaco
And yet I am somehow not a "true Dungeons & Dragons fan" ‘cos I don't have a warm, fuzzy place in my heart for Greyhawk.
Again, didn't say this friend.
Originally posted by Sulaco
I am however willing to concede that this may not and probably was not Michael A. Musselman's intent, and perhaps I am being overly sensitive, but this hints at implied elitism. While I would never deny anyone their own interests or opinions, elitism is something with which I do have a problem.
Ah dear ole elitism. Unfortunately I know much of this from my own experiences on the Greyhawk messageboard. My statement had nothing to do with elitism, and merely with the fact that not enough people even really know of Greyhawk. The overall point of the article was to get the knowledge of Greyhawk out to more people. The statement rather was aimed at us (yes myself included) younger gamers who have been brought up on Forgotten Realms (what with all the books and games being set in FR and such). So do not feel insulted, I point no finger to insult anyone, but rather just to say that to better understand D&D in it's present state and to take it into the future, I believe we must atleast have a grasp of its past. That is all, and I do thank you for assuming that it wasn't my intent to cause problem.
Wow I guess it doesn't always make an ASS out of U and ME! Awesome!
:88E: SANITY LOSS STRIKES BACK!!!!
It is because we want Greyhawk to live on that we are trying to get it out there again. Especially to the newcomers. If we can wean them from the Spoon-fed Forgotten Realms and get them into a setting that gives them room to breathe. They can use there imaginations, while stilll having enough detail to give them some ideas to work with. Then we have done a favor for all of us, and we can see future gamers picking up the riegns and in the next generation re-constituting Dungeons and Dragons for us old fogie gamers.
So, weather you don't want anything to do with Greyhawk, or if you are curious about the setting, Feel free to join us as an equal. For we are all just gamers in the end. Please do not ever feel that you are not welcome at the table, this isn't politics, this is gaming.
This takes away any validity to the statement. As the others summed up, some like everything handed down to you, pregenerated worlds to take work away from you.
Could you perhaps give an example of how the original Greyhawk boxed set provides any meaningful reduction to the amount of work I have to do? Your players are evidently different than mine; I find I have little use for:
- Descriptions of types of trees.
- A large list of undescribed gods.
- Essentially no NPC information besides statistics.
and so forth.
Now, it's possible that Greyhawk Wars and From the Ashes are better - wouldn't know, lost any interest in the setting with the original. But I maintain that the amount of work to bring Greyhawk to life, as you put it, is not significantly less than the amount of work required to bring a completely new world to life.
And this is no idle boast on my behalf; I've created several worlds over the course of my gaming experience. One hesitates to even call this bragging; it's not rocket science, after all, and it's certainly not difficult to come up with material far more useful than what Greyhawk provided.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I like Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance much either, but at least they were usable out of the box, saving the precious time that really is the only point using a pregenerated setting in the first place. The whole concept of "gods that don't need descriptions" thankfully appears to have been confined to Greyhawk.
Someone mentioned the novels. Perhaps I'm somewhat elitist, but I rarely read gaming fiction because I don't find it to be very interesting (a possible exception would be the Crystal Shard trilogy, although I think the rest of that series is getting very tired). Certainly I've never read any Greyhawk fiction, though I am vaguely aware of books such as Gord the Rogue and the one about the Wolf Nomad. However, I maintain that I shouldn't have to read the novels in order to run the setting. I've no idea what sort of author Mr Gygax is; one hopes that he's better at writing fiction than world supplements (I must point out, however, that I'm not criticising other Gygax work; I do have a certain fondness for the old first edition DMG and some of his modules. But Greyhawk wasn't one of the great man's best products, in my humble opinion).
One other point - I did check out the link provided (http://veluna.living-greyhawk.com/what_plot.html), and I have to say that looks like the sort of thing that the original boxed set should have had. I'm completely prepared to believe that Greyhawk, as envisioned by Gygax and its fans, is a great place to adventure... however, I do not believe that this appeal has ever really been expressed properly in print. (With the caveats above - I'm not exactly a Greyhawk scholar, and I would be prepared to believe that later supplements were "better" by the criteria I have outlined).