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| #1oakspar77777Oct 04, 2003 18:06:25 | When ever my players want to hire someone to do a task or raise an army, I am forced to shoot from the cuff. Since this is something I dislike having to do, and sensing that there are others who would desire a better system for hirelings, I have developed/refined a clearer system. I have scoured the DMG, the Arms & Equipment Guide, and the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook to preserve their rulings as closely as possible and I give full credit to them, since the preponderance of the material here is really theirs. Base Cost: Adept 1GP/LV/day Aristocrat 2GP/LV/day Untrained Commoner 1SP/LV/day Trained Commoner 2SP/LV/day Expert 1GP/LV/day Untrained Warrior 2SP/LV/day Trained Warrior 4SP/LV/day PC Classes 1GP+2GP/LV after 1st/day (3GP at LV2, 5GP at LV3, etc) Base cost is the daily living wage of the hireling. This does not include any equipment other than basic clothing. Adepts and other spell-casters still charge 10gp/SPLV/Caster LV to cast spells, but will always memorize /cast the spells that the employer request in advance of the caster?s daily time of preparation. Aristocrats are not usually hired, however, an advocate in the court of the king, as well as a political advisor would likely be Aristocrats (and sometimes it is beneficial for the PC's to hire a lobbyist to plead their position before the king/queen). Not to mention, when funding a system of bureaucracy to do things like collect taxes on their lands, then they will need to hire Aristocrats. Untrained commoners are those who are not hired for a specialized task (one that requires a skill check), porters, laborers, and message carriers, would be examples of untrained commoners. Trained commoners are those whose jobs require the use of a skill check (Cooks, blacksmiths, carpenters, etc). Items produced by hirelings cost the same as normal items, but the employer can set the craftsman on a specific task (such as crafting hundreds of swords) without the down payment a normal craftsman would require (1/3 for mundane and 1/2 for magical for any craftsman of any class). Furthermore, employers often enjoy discounts on merchandise for custom orders from hired craftsmen. Trained Commoner and Expert craftsmen can be put on retainer (see below). Experts are like trained commoners, only they are the best in their fields, allowing them to perform more difficult task better and in less time. Hireling experts are usually craftsmen, but are sometimes hired as "specialist" for certain other tasks that commoners cannot apply for and many adventurers neglect (such as Appraising, Forgery, or Deciphering Script). Untrained warriors are normal mercenaries. Untrained warriors usually have a secondary job (Usually a Craft skill) that they do when on retainer (see below). Thus, untrained troops can not be called on to make Skill Checks without paying them as trained warriors. Furthermore untrained warriors take feats that have non-combat benefits like Toughness, Endurance, Run, and Track. Foot soldiers are commonly untrained warriors. Trained warriors are mercenaries and the like who have specialized more heavily on combat. Since they do not have secondary jobs skills (or poor ones), trained warriors command more money both on duty and when on retainer (see below) to compensate. Furthermore, they often take combat only feats like Wpn Focus, Dodge, and Power Attack. Mounted soldiers, siege engineers, and scouts are common examples of trained warriors. In modern terms, you can think of trained warriors as career soldiers while untrained warriors are more like the national guard (1 weekend a month, 1 full week a year). PC Classes are not normally for long-term hire, but usually work to complete specific tasks for negotiated funds like normal PCs. Those that do accept long-term hire (usually Fighters) can never be equal to or higher than the level of their employer. PC Classes can be put on retainer (see below). The cost below is also a good guideline for what PCs should be offered by kings and the like to do specefic quests. Equipment: While some tasks (porter) require no equipment, task that do require equipment require extra funds. There are two ways to handle equipment: either the employer provides it or the hireling provides it. If the employer provides it, he must purchase it. This requires an initial output of money. The equipment belongs to the employer and the hireling must return it when his service is done. The employer is responsible for theft, loss, and damage to his equipment. Hirelings who do not provide their own equipment work for their base cost. Hirelings, however, have set expectations of the equipment that they need to do the job correctly. The GP cost of expected equipment for each type of hireling is given below. Hirelings will not work if not given equipment of sufficient cost and quality unless coerced (Diplomacy), threatened (Intimidate), or bribed (Paid double base cost). The Diplomacy or Intimidate check DC is the hireling's Sense Motive check with a +5 bonus to the hireling's check for each level of worth the equipment is beneath him. Bribery reduces this bonus by 5, and bribery of four times the base cost will reduce this bonus by another 5 for non-combat task (so, it does not apply to mercenaries or in hostile work environments). Hirelings given equipment exceeding their expectations are considered to have their reactions improved by one step (usually to friendly). Hirelings that bring their own equipment do so at their appropriate level of equipment cost (see below), but must be paid more to compensate for the cost and upkeep of providing their own equipment. Add up the cost of all of their equipment (including mounts). This equipment will fall somewhere inside their appropriate level of equipment cost. The employer must pay 1/500 of this cost (round up to the nearest copper) each day in addition to the wages of base cost. This reflects the normal wear and tear on equipment. If some of the equipment is provided and some not, only factor this cost for the equipment not provided by the employer. Thus a LV10 Untrained Warrior (Foot Soldier) with 1,500GP worth of equipment cost 50SP/day to hire (20SP base cost + 30SP equipment maintenance [1/500 of 1500GP]. If the employer were to supply 750GP worth of equipment, the cost per day to hire the warrior would be reduced to 35SP/day. If the employer supplies all 1500GP worth of equipment, then the cost to hire and support the troop would only be 20SP/day. Appropriate Level of Equipment Cost LV Adpt Aris/PC Cmnr Exprt/War 1 450 900 9 90 2 1000 2000 20 200 3 1250 2500 25 250 4 1650 3300 33 330 5 2150 4300 43 430 6 2800 5600 56 560 7 3600 7200 72 720 8 4700 9400 94 940 9 6000 12000 120 1200 10 8000 16000 160 1600 11 10500 21000 210 2100 12 13500 27000 270 2700 13 17500 35000 350 3500 14 22500 45000 450 4500 15 29500 59000 590 5900 16 38500 77000 770 7700 17 50000 100000 1000 10000 18 65000 130000 1300 13000 19 85000 170000 1700 17000 20 110000 220000 2200 22000 Hostile Work Environments When confronted with hostile work environments (inclement weather, combat, impending doom, etc), hirelings either refuse to work or demand more money. Only PC Classes and Warriors will enter or fight in combat and on any day when they enter combat they expect to receive double base cost pay for the day (hazard pay) as well as a percentage of any spoils. If faced with a foe(s) with a CR superior than the hirelings, they will surrender, flee, or demand quadruple pay. Other classes will not willingly take on risk except for quadruple pay, and then only when convinced or threatened (Diplomacy or Intimidate DC20). They will not fight except as a last resort and flee if they take any damage, even if that subjects them to Attacks of Oppertunity. Retainer Craftsmen, PC Classes, Adepts, Aristocrats, Experts, and Warriors can be put on retainer. They are released from duty and service to the employer and can adventure, work, marry, have children and go about their lives however they desire. The employer, however, can recall them to service within 1d6 days (for large groups, assume 20% arrive per day, with the last 5% dragging in on day 6). The cost for keeping a hireling on retainer is [{their base cost/day + 5 days equipment maintenance (if the employer is not supplying the equipment)} / month]. Thus, our LV10 Untrained Warrior (Foot Soldier) with 1500GP worth of equipment cost 170SP per month to keep on retainer [20SP base cost + (30SP X 5) for equipment maintenance]. If the employer supplies 750GP worth of equipment, then the retainer cost is 95SP (20SP + 15 X 5). If the employer supplies all 1500GP worth of equipment, then the retainer cost is only 20SP per month. Retainer is often used by large castles and citadels in order to lower staffing cost during peace time or for high level specialist who are too expensive to keep as full time staff. Many kings keep groups of adventurers on retainer for trouble shooting, but most PCs are unfit for this service since it requires checking in with the employer at least once a week. Retainer also keeps skilled craftsmen near the castle (within a day's walk) which improve the economy of the support city. Leaders and Leadership Large groups of hirelings require some form of leadership in order to function together coherently. Warriors, Fighters, Barbarians, and Commoners require one leader for every ten LV1 hirelings, and one leader for every two LV2+ hirelings. Thus, 40 LV1 Trained Commoner Brick Masons requires: 4 LV2 Trained Commoner Brick Masons, 2 LV3 Trained Commoner Brick Masons, and 1 LV4 Trained Commoner Brick Mason. These higher-level hirelings lead and direct their underlings, helping task be more efficient. Ranking hirelings take priority, so if 9 LV1 Untrained Warrior Foot Soldiers are hired, and one more is hired, it must be LV2. If Warriors and Commoners do not have sufficient leadership, they receive -1 on Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls, AC, Saves, Skill Checks, and Ability Checks for each level of leadership they are missing (so the 40 LV1 Commoners would have a -3 penalty if they did not have any of the LV2, 3, or 4 leadership). Experts, Adepts, and Spell casting, and non-Fighter/Barbarian PC Classes usually have students. Starting at LV4, students (apprentices, journeymen, helpers, billow pumps, dog runners, the guy who gets to "test" the first potion out of the batch, etc) begin to gravitate to the "master". Any Master can have up to two students of identical class, but 3 levels lower than himself. If these students are at least LV4, they will have their own student's students, and so forth. For example LV16 Expert Weaponsmith could have up to 2 LV12 Expert Weaponsmith Students, 4 LV8 Expert Weaponsmith Students, 8 LV4 Expert Weaponsmith Students, and 16 LV1 Expert Weaponsmith Students. If an employer wishes to hire someone of that status, he must be prepared to hire and pay the master's entire staff. Adventuring PCs do not attract students (apart from the leadership feat) due to the rigors of adventuring, but they are also not available for general hire, but must be rewarded for specific task like player PCs would be. The leadership feat grants a cohort of any class at the listed level in the DMG. Once gained, a cohort only goes up in level through experience. In other words, a cohort is a second, lower level PC run by the same player as the original PC. It takes its fair share of treasure. It gains "free experience" in ratio to the PC's experience. Each time experience is gained, divide it by the character's level, then multiply it by the cohort's level. This makes the PC and the Cohort gain levels at the same rate. If the cohort?s experience ever goes high enough to come within two levels of the PC, then the cohort stops gaining experience until the PC's level is once again two levels higher. Cohorts gain experience every time the PC does, even if he is home sick or watching the horses. If a cohort adventures independently, he does not gain experience. A cohort initially comes with the equipment due to a NPC of his level. A cohort can also be a non-humanoid race at the DM's discretion as to availability and effective character level. The leadership feat also grants followers as listed in the DMG. These followers are Warriors, Commoners, or Experts at the PC's choice. (Varient: A higher-level slot can be exchanged for two slots at the next lower level. A PC can use two potential follower slots from a level to gain an Adept or Aristocrat of that level. A PC can use three potential follower slots to gain a PC class of that level, but never the PC's highest available level except at follower LV1.) The benefit of followers over normal hireling is that they have no base cost for daily wages or retainer costs. Hazard pay equals what would normally be the daily wage for a hireling of that level, and quadruple pay is only double hazard pay. Equipment cost/maintenance cost are unchanged. (With the exception of the Cohort, who comes equiped with base equipment and recieves all further equipment through adventuring with the "master.") Thus, if the PC supplies all the equipment, a follower has no cost, except on days when hazard pay is earned. Followers usually do not attract students, but those who do, do so from other followers (in other words, both master and student must be among the PC's followers). Cohorts and Followers cannot take the Leadership feat or have followers or cohorts of their own. Varient: Non-human Followers: Followers are normally the race and alignment of the PC, or within one alignment step or closely allied races (Elves might have Humans, Half-Elves, Halflings, and Gnomes, but likely would not have Half-Orcs or Dwarves. A Half-Orc might have humans, goblinoids, orc, and half-orgres, but likely would not have elves or dwarves). Special followers might also be appropriate at the DM's discretion. Good examples might be undead (Skeletons or Zombies of various sizes), animals (for a Druid), vermin, or something similar. |
| #2zombiegleemaxOct 26, 2003 1:27:46 | 41 gp per day base cost for a level 20 fighter? |
| #3zombiegleemaxOct 29, 2003 18:35:54 | 39GP And work out the profession skills of the mercenaries. Highly negative at first level. |
| #4oakspar77777Oct 31, 2003 13:37:36 | Actually, 39gp per day base cost. (1gp for level 1 and 38gp for 19 additional levels) And that is for ANY PC class, including Wizards, Sorcerers, and Clerics. Only one problem. Re-read the section on equipment. While any LV 1 character could fork out the base pay, there is that annoying equipment cost. Now if your character has 220,000gp worth of equipment to let them use, then it would only cost you 39gp a day if you can find a LV 20 Fighter in the first place. Of course, using suggested character wealth, you would need to be at least LV 16 to afford that, and then you would only have 40,000gp worth of equipment to use for yourself. Or, you could pay the maintainance cost of 1/500 which would run you an extra 440gp per day, for a total of 479gp a day. Now I know that you are thinking that by level 2 you could probably afford this, but remember that a LV 20 character is not likely to team up with your pitiful party of upstarts. Also note that there is the issue of use and hazard pay. A level 20 hireling is going to exspect his share of the hoard, which, when teamed up with four LV 2 character's is almost all of it (think of it like this, he deserves 20 shares of the loot, while the PC's only deserve 2 shares each). Spellcasters in employ still require the 10gp/SPLV/caster LV for each spell they cast. Your emply just means that you get to tell them which, when, and where to cast. So, when it all boils down, yes, four LV 18 PC's can easily afford to hire in a LV 20 Fighter, but after base cost and equipment (which must be paid even during down time) and @ 1/5 of the treasure it quickly becomes very exspensive to keep that extra muscle arround. Your best bet for extra muscle is still the Leadership feat where you get an always loyal, run-it-yourself, extra character at only a few levels penalty. The only cost for a Cohort is their share of the treasure, and they come equiped with their starting level of equipment. Especially useful are: the Cleric "Healing Battery" cohort (since that position in the party is not always fun to roleplay), the portable cannon (Sorcerer), personal Meriachi band (Bard), or the great and terrible "Buffinator" (Cleric, Bard, Sorc, Wiz, with a focus on buffing spells). Had a Rogue once make wonderful use of a Sorcerer Cohort who took Summon Monster at every spell level. The Cohort spent every combat invisable and Summoned Monsters every round in order to set up flanks for the Rogue's sneak attacks. Monstrous cohorts are also especially cheap, sense most do not require treasure or equipment. (Dragons, Giants, Monst Humanoids, Humanoids, Fey, and some others do) Those that do not require treasure and equipment, however, also do not grow with experience, and soon are obsolete to the progressing PC. |
| #5zombiegleemaxOct 31, 2003 14:50:16 | you should try to calculate the pay with more multiplication. i.e. for fighter have (Base cost + [level x 1/2 level])/day for below level 10 and (Base cost + [level x level]/day for level 11+ so, when calculated, a level 20 fighter would cost 1 + (20x20) = 401 gp/day a level 10 fighter is not nearly as experienced, so he would be 1 + (10x5) = 51 gp/day but other than the costs this is a very well worked out plan |
| #6shaftielNov 03, 2003 16:48:26 | Originally posted by ante_up Don't forget the equipment maintenance cost. According to Oakspar's chart (which is straight from the DMG), a 20th level NPC has 220,000 gp worth of equipment, which would bring the cost up to 481 gp/day. They always get you with the maintenance costs. ![]() -Shaftiel |