(Could someone show me how to make those little hiding sections with the hide/show button? I don't want to fill up the post with tons of text to scroll through lol)
Limitations:
If multiple classes give an ability that normally stacks (such as Turn Undead from Cleric/Paladin), it cannot have a greater effect than any one of your classes could have at your total class level.
You can have a level adjustment, but not racial HD, and everyone (including other players) must agree to it before you can have it (NO LICHES! lol).
Multiclass penalties have the potential to become very severe, very quickly, and are enforced to the letter. Each class/class combo counts as one class for multiclass purposes, and any combo with a base class counts as a base class for multiclass purposes. (yeah, it gets technical...)
Paladins and Monks must always level at least one part of their gestalt with those classes unless taking a class that specifically allows for multiclassing (or if they have the feats that allow it)
There's also some house rules I've always used.
Once a class skill, always a class skill. It just makes sense that you would want to train in skills belonging to your previous class.
Paladins are always paladins of a deity or a cause (justice, freedom, slaughter, or tyranny) and must match the alignment of that deity or cause, rather than always be lawful good. Class abilities may change as a result.
Assassins do not need to be evil. Good assassins kill tyrant royalty just as often as evil ones kill benevolent royalty. They just aren't as cruel about it. It also replaces the death attack with a subduing attack (nobody's used it though, so I don't know how that'd work).
Any mundane item is available. Magic item availability depends on the size of the town/city/whatever. I don't like market details, so I just use the max item value rules in the DMG, ignoring them for the purposes of mundane items.
Each Wizard specialization is a separate class and more than one can be taken, but their spells per day do not stack under any circumstances. This also applies to all other classes with variations such as this.
Wizards get 2 extra skill points at all levels (8 at first) on top of the usual 2+INT, but these points can only be spent on Knowledge skills other than Knowledge: Arcana.
Haste spell changes your move action into a standard action, so spellcasters can get some use out of it. This is not the 3E partial action. It's simply an upgrade so mages actually want to use it.
Some things I hate about RAW:
EXP costs for item creation. "I have to spend EXP? Screw that!"
Can't fighters at least get "Profession: Meat Shield" or something?
Fighters aren't broken enough... at least, not compared to the last gestalt mage I saw... sorcerer/wizard, picked up force missile mage and argent savant, was able to do over 1000 damage in a round with magic missile by level 15 (please note previous comment about Haste... that only boosted his damage output by about 35%). At 26 the party killed Tiamat.
It's far too easy to create the ultimate flying fortress of doom with the ability to fly through air, slip through water, and meld past earth, along with having an arsenal of magical weapons and an army of golem guards. It had a Stargate network too. Literally. DHD, circular Gates, code keys, and an iris. Each party member owned a fortress, so the Bard/Shugenja Geomancer made gates by using the spare exp from the Deck of Many Things after wishing out the bad cards. Yes, that game broke horribly when it hit epic.
Wish is hard to judge...oh so very hard...especially when the wisher is a linguist in real life that allows for no loopholes.
>.>
Anyway...
Can I get some critiques on my house rules, as well as what ways the UA variants can be used to alter the flavor of the game?
I like simplifying the rules some, and class customization is always fun (using UA as a guide), but I don't want my coming game to become as horribly broken as last time. I have a few months still before I'll be starting it, so I want to take plenty of time to work out the variant details.
Racial HD - Providing you can have Racial Progression levels. This helps keep the player on par with everyone else in terms of HP, but still limits them in power overall. IE...they won't start off as a half-dragon, but will gain their abilities as the level. By the time they come into their own and finish off the racial progression, everyone else should be equal in power
Multi-class penalties removed - It is a massive headache...trust me =)
Paladin/Monk restrictions - If a class has the issue of not being able to multiclass without pentalty, then it should be up to the DM to says yes/no on this. Also, keep the feats from the Complete Warrior (i think) in mind (Ascetic Monk, Bard...ect) which allow for MCing these two classes. These feats were put in place for normal rules. I'm not sure how they would fair in a gestalt game.
Once a class skill, always a class skill - Be wary of this. It's fun, but can be really abused.
In regards to your house rules:
Wizard Specializations as separate classes - The problem I see, why have specializations then? If you specialize in one school, you are supposed to be restricted in another school. By having these as separate classes, it circumvents that restriction, but with the penalty of being a 4th Level Evoker/3 Level Illusionist (as an example of a Evocation spec and an Illusion spec)
I like your idea about wizard skill points. Personally, I just change their points to 4+int instead of 2 per level + int. It gets the same effect, but allows them a little more flexibility.
As far as your adjustment to Paladins and Assassins, I'm on the fence for this one. The base Paladin has alot of nice abilities. There are other non-wotc classes which mimic the Paladin, but offer the chance to be a different alignment. I haven't dealth with the Assassin class much, so I'm not sure how they work.
A recommendation: Don't go overboard with the Variants. Adding flavor to the game is great, but too much flavor can be bad. A former DM friend retooled his game to be what he wanted. It was Dnd in name, and the overall concept was DnD, but alot of the rules were different. To prove a point, I used his rules in conjunction with the normal rules, and created a Druid (at level 12), with 200hp, 3d6 claw/4d6 bite, and 50ac -- All while shapeshifted and without shapeshifting feats (using the PhB II variant) and using the rules he allowed/changed.
Haste spell changes your move action into a standard action, so spellcasters can get some use out of it. This is not the 3E partial action. It's simply an upgrade so mages actually want to use it.
That has the ability to go very very wrong, depending on whether you rule that the second standard action can be used for a spell. If it can, then the mages will wreak havoc like never before(in current 3.5 rules, the extra standard action can't be used for an additional spell). If it can't, then mages will feel entirely indifferent towards the thing.
That has the ability to go very very wrong, depending on whether you rule that the second standard action can be used for a spell. If it can, then the mages will wreak havoc like never before(in current 3.5 rules, the extra standard action can't be used for an additional spell). If it can't, then mages will feel entirely indifferent towards the thing.
I'm quite aware of the problems this can cause...which makes it one of the worst parts of that spell. At high levels, a mage can burn through three 9th level slots with this (with the quickened spell). It was a bit of a problem the last time I used it, but Haste as-is just doesn't give anything to a mage. Any ideas for a way to make mages like Haste again without super-breaking the spell? What about a greater haste (maybe, 5th level spell?) that has this effect without changing the normal haste? The goal is to give the mages a reason to cast haste besides the buff it gives to the melee types (though a hasted monk using FoB and TWF is a scary thing...it's the melee equivalent of a shotgun)
EXP costs for item creation. "I have to spend EXP? Screw that!"
Don't knock it until you have tried it. The mechanics behind it are difficult for someone without a solid math background like me to explain, but the gist is that spending xp is actually a boon, because of the self-correcting nature of xp gain. If you are willing to consistently stay a lv behind (and use the xp for crafting), you will see an exponential benefit. Trust me on this.
Experience is a River
This would allow them to cast two 9th level spells (as normal) plus an additional 5th level spell at caster level 20. Not breaking but still useful.
(Could someone show me how to make those little hiding sections with the hide/show button? I don't want to fill up the post with tons of text to scroll through lol)
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You can have a level adjustment, but not racial HD, and everyone (including other players) must agree to it before you can have it (NO LICHES! lol).
Why no racial HD? Racial HD are generally inferior to class HD. Why not just a maximum ECL?
Why the hate for liches? It's actually a relatively weak template, at least by the time you can take it (minimum 11th level).
Paladins and Monks must always level at least one part of their gestalt with those classes unless taking a class that specifically allows for multiclassing (or if they have the feats that allow it)
...Or unless they just don't care about gaining more levels of paladin/monk, correct? That is, once I attain x level as a rogue/monk, I could then advance as a rogue/fighter, assuming I never plan to take any more monk levels, yes?
Once a class skill, always a class skill. It just makes sense that you would want to train in skills belonging to your previous class.
What about multiclassers? Does this mean, with the right multiclass combo, I could have every skill in the game as a class skill?
Each Wizard specialization is a separate class and more than one can be taken, but their spells per day do not stack under any circumstances. This also applies to all other classes with variations such as this.
This makes little sense to me. So, I can be a gestalt enchanter/necromancer, specialized in both Enchantment and Necromancy, but with the spells of one wizard? First, you normally can't gestalt the same class (there's no point), and second, what's the benefit?
Wizards get 2 extra skill points at all levels (8 at first) on top of the usual 2+INT, but these points can only be spent on Knowledge skills other than Knowledge: Arcana.
They don't need it.
Haste spell changes your move action into a standard action, so spellcasters can get some use out of it. This is not the 3E partial action. It's simply an upgrade so mages actually want to use it.
Bad idea. As written, haste is a decent spell, just right for 3rd level. The mages I game with want to use it because it lets the warriors and strikers kill the baddies a lot faster...thus preserving mage spells and squishy mage hp.
EXP costs for item creation. "I have to spend EXP? Screw that!"
As noted, it's a self-correcting problem, assuming the crafter doesn't go completely crazy in making stuff.
Can't fighters at least get "Profession: Meat Shield" or something?
Agreed.
Fighters aren't broken enough... at least, not compared to the last gestalt mage I saw... sorcerer/wizard, picked up force missile mage and argent savant, was able to do over 1000 damage in a round with magic missile by level 15 (please note previous comment about Haste... that only boosted his damage output by about 35%). At 26 the party killed Tiamat.
In a gestalt game, fighters totally rock. Why? Because you only notice the good...free proficiencies, d10 HD, full BAB, good Fort save, and tasty bonus feats. The most dangerous PC in a gestalt game I once played in was the TWF fighter/rogue, "Kid Death."
Wish is hard to judge...oh so very hard...especially when the wisher is a linguist in real life that allows for no loopholes.
Rules lawyers like that give the rest of us a bad name. This is why I like to have wishes be granted by some powerful supernatural entity...the entity gets to interpret the wish, and no Legalese: you're rough-and-tumble adventurers!
Can I get some critiques on my house rules, as well as what ways the UA variants can be used to alter the flavor of the game?
Get your players' input. Some of them may hate the UA rules. Ask what they like and what they don't and be prepared to scrap a few of the variants.
All variants should be considered "on probation" for the first couple of adventures. Explain that, since you've never used [rule X] before, you may have to nix it if it's broken. Sure, it looks fine on paper, but...
Wish is hard to judge...oh so very hard...especially when the wisher is a linguist in real life that allows for no loopholes.
It does not matter whether the wisher left any loopholes or not. Wishing out the bad cards from the deck of many things does not corespond to any of the specified options for wish, so the GM is free to pervert or partially fullfill the wish.
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Thanks
Why no racial HD? Racial HD are generally inferior to class HD. Why not just a maximum ECL?
Why the hate for liches? It's actually a relatively weak template, at least by the time you can take it (minimum 11th level).
Racial HD makes gestalt complicated...I allow it in normal games
Liches are evil, and I find it hard to make a campaign where the characters are supposed to be the bad guys, let alone undead. Generally, evil is allowed if and only if the character can and will work well with others. Evil just isn't very cooperative.
...Or unless they just don't care about gaining more levels of paladin/monk, correct? That is, once I attain x level as a rogue/monk, I could then advance as a rogue/fighter, assuming I never plan to take any more monk levels, yes?
That would be correct.
What about multiclassers? Does this mean, with the right multiclass combo, I could have every skill in the game as a class skill?
This is also correct. Or you could just take Factotum 1 at first level and boom, all skills are class skills for life.
This makes little sense to me. So, I can be a gestalt enchanter/necromancer, specialized in both Enchantment and Necromancy, but with the spells of one wizard? First, you normally can't gestalt the same class (there's no point), and second, what's the benefit?
This rule was actually a bit of a throwback from normal games (where gimping one caster to level another provided spell knowledge at the expense of high level slots). In gestalt, the point would be to basically section off your spells. For example, you would have so many "nuke spells" on one side of the class and so many "defense spells" on the other. The spell lists would not mix, ever, so the only benefit is more spells. You would literally have two spell books. With time though, you can easily copy universal and divination spells between the two.
They don't need it.
No, they don't. I just add it in as flavor SP. I forgot the restriction on Knowledge: Religion and Knowledge: Nature though... those are prohibited just like Arcana for those points. Basically, you cannot get to epic spells with those free points
Bad idea. As written, haste is a decent spell, just right for 3rd level. The mages I game with want to use it because it lets the warriors and strikers kill the baddies a lot faster...thus preserving mage spells and squishy mage hp.
This is why I want to find another alternative that makes the mages happy. It's useful for a fighter, yes, but the players I usually run with almost always play caster-types. There's only ever one fighter-type in the group. Granted, the casters usually gestalt it up with monk or something. The goal is to find something that mages can use without breaking them.
As noted, it's a self-correcting problem, assuming the crafter doesn't go completely crazy in making stuff.
I read the "Experience is a River" post just a couple back, but it's not all there math-wise...lots of tables, but not all the math to explain it. I see how you can get more exp for 'free' though, so it makes a bit of sense.
Agreed.
Yay! *gives fighters Profession: Meat Shield*
In a gestalt game, fighters totally rock. Why? Because you only notice the good...free proficiencies, d10 HD, full BAB, good Fort save, and tasty bonus feats. The most dangerous PC in a gestalt game I once played in was the TWF fighter/rogue, "Kid Death."
With that kind of combo, yes. I personally love fighters for all the feats. It's quite fun
They are just a lot harder to work with in a normal game. I'm using fighter/druid (with variants on both sides) for an archer in a gestalt game right now ^^ The other option is fighter/scout for TWF skirmish. Throw in whatever feat it is that allows you to move by a single opponent without provoking AoOs and skirmishing TWF becomes quite fun.Rules lawyers like that give the rest of us a bad name. This is why I like to have wishes be granted by some powerful supernatural entity...the entity gets to interpret the wish, and no Legalese: you're rough-and-tumble adventurers!
This sounds like a good idea... the problem is when players start buying the rings of three wishes... I should probably just ban those huh? hehe
Also, he's not a rules lawyer...he's a linguist. Two totally different evils. (and yes, I'm admitting to being evil...I'm a rules lawyer XD )
Get your players' input. Some of them may hate the UA rules. Ask what they like and what they don't and be prepared to scrap a few of the variants.
All variants should be considered "on probation" for the first couple of adventures. Explain that, since you've never used [rule X] before, you may have to nix it if it's broken. Sure, it looks fine on paper, but...
This be a good idea ^^
There's also some house rules I've always used.
Once a class skill, always a class skill. It just makes sense that you would want to train in skills belonging to your previous class.
I just got rid of class skills. Anyone can spend points in any skill.
Some things I hate about RAW:
EXP costs for item creation. "I have to spend EXP? Screw that!"
There has to be some limit on crafting. It could be worse, it could be like the 2e constitution drain.
I just got rid of class skills. Anyone can spend points in any skill.
This isn't necessarily a good thing. If everyone is able to find and remove traps, while have a Rogue in a campaign that will take you to a dungeon with a lot of undead? Just an example of course. Since sneak attack is ineffective against undead, the only reason to even have a Rogue is their ability to disable traps.
Granted, you can make the same arguement with "once a class skill, always a class skill" (which is the ruling I use). This can lead to alot of min/maxing of characters. Some people might decide to splash a level of Rogue to get access to a lot of skills. As a Rogue/Wizard, you can cover a good portion of the core skills.
Generally, "Once a class skill, always a class skill" is a lot better than removing class skills. If the player wants to gain a certain skill as a class skill, they are going to have to take a level in that specific class. The benefit is they get the skills they wanted. The downside is, in some cases, they will have: lower hp and fewer class abilities and spells in their main class.
If everyone is able to find and remove traps, while have a Rogue in a campaign that will take you to a dungeon with a lot of undead?
Because no other class gets the same number of skill points. Having a cleric as a trap finder is all well and good, but his 2 skill points per level aren't going to allow him to do much else.
Another option would be to have it upgrade your move action to a standard action, but limit the caster to one normal spell per turn. This would allow a caster to, for example, cast a spell, cast a quickened spell, then use a wand or something (which are generally weaker than what the character can do, and also cost money).
I use Craft Points. At first I wasn't very optimistic about it, but the mechanic worked very well in gameplay.
Some things I hate about RAW:
EXP costs for item creation. "I have to spend EXP? Screw that!".
You should check out Artificer's Handbook from Mystic Eye Games. It's a great book with optional magic item creation rules and a system that does away with XP costs for magic item creation. When EN World is back up, I'll post a link to the reviews. Ronin Arts is currently handling MEGs pdf sales.