Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 16, 2004 19:18:05	Often times people look back on classic modules like the Slavers series, Against the Giants, Tomb of Horrors, etc. with a fond nostalgia, as well as a tremendous respect for and enjoyment of those mods. If someone asks, "What OOP mods would you recommend for my group to try out?" many of these 1e mods immediately come to mind. But what about 2e adventures? Which ones seemed to catch the *flavor* of those classic 1e mods for you? Which ones do you think were well written, or had a great plot? Which ones really impressed you with how well they were organized and published? Were there mods that added alot to a favorite campaign setting that you think became essential to that setting? Were there NPC's (villians, heroes, or something in between) that you really liked in a particular mod? In short, which 2e modules (if any) would you recommend to people that you think were up to par with some of the classic mods that were so well known back in the day?
#2 ORC_Paradox Jun 16, 2004 23:41:25	1e modules didn't feel connected to any specific world. Let me see if I can artciulate what I mean. 2e was about various game worlds. Each of those worlds had modules. So, in 2e, if you were playing a module, you were either playing a PlaneScape module, or a Forgotten Realms module, or a Dark Sun module and so on. With 1st edition, there wasn't the various worlds outside GH, and even then, to me at least they felt "generic" enough that they could be dropped anywhere. Not that it couldn't be done with the 2e modules. YMMV, of course.
#3 zombiegleemax Jun 16, 2004 23:59:23	I know this might offend and shock my 1e loving brethren grognards, but... I liked 2e adventures. There, I said it. I liked 'em. They were no Temple of Elemental Evil, but I liked them. I even liked Terrible Trouble at Tragidore (Yes, that thing that came with the DM's screen.). I am a 2e junkie, and when I find a 2e PHB on E-Bay that is either not: A: In good shape but costing a mint. or B: On the cheap but looks like crap. I will be starting a 2e campaign. My PHB looks like, well, if you look at it close, you can tell it used to be a book...
#4 zombiegleemax Jun 17, 2004 1:38:18	I'm not big on published adventures either way. I think WizO_Paradox hit the nail right on the head with his statement however. Most people like the 1e modules better simply because you can use them without any adjustment no matter where you are playing. Heck, with those things you don't even need a setting. You've got a location and that's enough. People like the feeling that a setting is something they created and those modules give you that while still allowing you to use the works of the many brilliant game designers that we all know and love. I myself find published adventures to be too "railroady" for my tastes. I'm not talking about the stuff found in the DL or Ravenloft modules, but the things that every module is going to make you deal with. Every group of PCs is different so every module is going to need to be tinkered with and retouched. If I'm going to have to do all that I'll save my money and write my own adventures. My group likes the things I come up with better than running modules anyway. lol Anyway, just my thoughts on why the "classic modules" are classics.
#5 varl Jun 17, 2004 8:33:51	Temple, Tower, and Tomb had a very 1e like feel to me. So did The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar. In the end, I like both 1e and 2e modules.
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 17, 2004 9:19:44	Many of the early 2E adventures were junk in my opinion. The whole 2E line in general actually. The focus seemed to be more on making money, and less on releasing quality products. Later, there was a definite shift, and most of the later 2E modules released are on par with many of the 1E modules, but none really stand up with the 1E 'classics' like the G series. Scott
#7 zombiegleemax Jun 17, 2004 14:45:53	With all due respect, wizo-paradox, I don't agree with your blanket statement. S4 and WG4 feel very connected to Greyhawk, as does T1 and The Temple of Elemental Evil. But that's just me.
#8 zombiegleemax Jun 20, 2004 12:05:18	I think that in some cases, the 1E modules are not necessarily better writen, but they have an advantage that the 2E and later mods don't have...authorship. What I mean is that the father's of D&D were often the writers of the old stuff; Gygax, Kuntz, etc. That often provides people with a sense of nastalgia that gives those mods an edge over later works by other authors. That's not to say that I don't agree that for the most part 1E mods are "better" than 2E mods, but then again, I think the basic "B" series and expert "X" series of mods are some of the best ever written. As far as 2E goes, I think that "The Gates of Firestorm Peak" was decent (although it is actually considered 2E revised) and the "Return to the Tomb of Horrors" wasn't terrible.
#9 zombiegleemax Jun 22, 2004 16:09:55	WizO_Paradox wrote: 2e was about various game worlds. Each of those worlds had modules. So, in 2e, if you were playing a module, you were either playing a PlaneScape module, or a Forgotten Realms module, or a Dark Sun module and so on. So what about: Labyrinth of Madness Temple, Tower, and Tomb Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga Swamplight Dragon Mountain Eye of Doom Eye of Pain Eye to Eye Murky Deep Tales of Enchantment Various Wizards' Challenge, Thieve's Challenge, etc Lost Shrine of Bundushatur Night Below Night of the Shark Paladin In Hell Reverse Dungeon Rod of Seven Parts Sea Devils Sea of Blood That's just off the top of my head, I know I'm missing dozens. All generic AD&D, not world specific. Anyway, my top picks for 2E adventures would be: 1. Ruins of Undermountain - Of course, I'm biased on this one. Still, I consider it the best game supplement ever done. The best, biggest, most entertaining dungeon ever. 2. Labyrinth of Madness - One of the wildest, most challenging and deadly adventures I've ever run. This is perhaps the finest single adventure dungeon crawl ever! 3. City of Skulls - Specific to Greyhawk, but this one is a masterpiece. The players are forced to play their characters intelligently...sheer force will get them killed, no question. One of the most exciting and fun adventures I've ever run, every time I've run it. Those would be my top 3 picks for 2E adventures, although Undermountain could more properly be considered a campaign setting or at least part of a campaign setting. Still the greatest place ever written about for D&D!
#10 zombiegleemax Jun 22, 2004 17:52:39	I loved The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga! It wasn't the best adventure in the world for sure but it was pretty good and it was unique. Not to mention drawing some information from a very interesting mythical character.
#11 zombiegleemax Jun 22, 2004 20:15:31	Originally posted by Halaster-Blackcloak Anyway, my top picks for 2E adventures would be: 1. Ruins of Undermountain - Of course, I'm biased on this one. Still, I consider it the best game supplement ever done. The best, biggest, most entertaining dungeon ever... Now that brings back some memories. :fight!:
#12 Elendur Jun 23, 2004 9:45:19	I really liked the flip-book style Dark Sun modules. They came with two flip-books, one containing the DM information and another with pictures for the players to view. In general I love modules that offer player pictures and handouts.
#13 zombiegleemax Jun 28, 2004 23:46:33	Well so far, there's been respones from some who dislike the 2e mods, some who like them, and some in between. Thanks for the suggestions everyone so far everyone.
#14 blackprinceofmuncie Jun 29, 2004 1:07:36	Originally posted by Halaster-Blackcloak So what about: ... Swamplight ... Murky Deep ... Rod of Seven Parts ... I don't have any experience with the others on that list, but even though these three weren't written for Forgotten Realms, you can't tell it from the writing. They "feel" FR all the way. YMMV.
#15 zombiegleemax Jul 01, 2004 11:58:04	They are classics in 1st edition!
#16 Kamelion Jul 02, 2004 10:13:18	Dancing Hut was a hoot, if a little odd. I really enjoyed running Rod of Seven Parts - that had a 1e feel to me from start to finish. Dragon Mountain was great fun but I felt that the boxed set promised more than it delivered and the version I ended up running bore little resemblance to the published product. Overall I found The Night Below to be the best plotted and presented 2e adventure/campaign. It succeeded in all those areas where I felt the D series had failed and managed to throw a wider net (mind you, it did have a big fat box to do it in so no surprise, really). 2e seemed to have a greater percentage of adventures that needed work to make them great than 1e did. Curse of the Azure Bonds was a blast and a half every time I ran it but boy did I have to work hard to keep it from being "Great Railroad Journeys of the Realms"! Undermountain was another one like that - a huge dungeon with only a quarter of the rooms detailed. Errrrmmmm, okaaaay. Conversely Greyhawk Ruins was stuffed to the brim with details and nothind besides. Just add fluff, heh heh. Total opposite to Undermountain, just as much fun. Come to think of it, GR had a pretty serious 1e feel to it too. 1e adventures seemed to play better out of the box. I wonder why that is.
#17 zombiegleemax Jul 02, 2004 10:15:04	The sad thing is that now, if you wanted to use some of these modules for 3.5 or 3.0 it would be much more difficult. Fighting a fortress of giants at 8th level? Not gonna happen.
#18 Kamelion Jul 02, 2004 10:19:24	Heh, most of the hard work has been done by the conversion folks over at Enworld. I haven't run any of their conversions yet (still neck-deep in sand) but they look sound enough. Anyone else tried the converted stuff over at Enworld?
#19 zombiegleemax Jul 02, 2004 11:38:21	do they have a website? What is the address?
#20 Kamelion Jul 03, 2004 1:43:04	You can find the conversion documents here. Enworld's homepage is here.
#21 zombiegleemax Jul 03, 2004 14:40:54	thanks for the site addy.
#22 zombiegleemax Jul 14, 2004 1:30:45	AHhh.... Laybrinyth of Madness... Even our most brokenest, power gaming group were stumped on this one... If it is the module that TSR released an apology for because it was too difficult, and I believe there were two rooms that were impossible to get to, or something like that. I don't have any experience with 1st Edition, but I have played a bit of Basic Edition, which I was told use an identical system or something. (Kind of like 2nd Edition, but without all those weird stuff.) I can say this about Basic Edition modules: They were not fit for whatever level they were tailored to. We're talking a level 1 "dungeon" for 6-10 players has a thousand monsters to tackle. Orcs, Gnolls, Goblins, Worgs, and other mean, mean things. Hell, I'm still stuck in Castle Amber which I think I'm going to rule as impossible. Well, it is when the rest of your party is dead, and you're the only one left standing... *sigh*
#23 chatdemon Jul 15, 2004 5:03:04	Originally posted by Carkni We're talking a level 1 "dungeon" for 6-10 players has a thousand monsters to tackle. Orcs, Gnolls, Goblins, Worgs, and other mean, mean things. What you are failing to realize is, unlike later 2e and 3e adventures, the B and X series, for Basic and Expert D&D respectively, we're not intended for single session play. My guess is that you're referring to Keep on the Borderlands and the Caves of Chaos in particular. The caves are neatly broken up into little areas. Between areas, or after 2 or 3, depending on party strength, tactics and luck, you're assumed to trudge back to the keep, or whatever location your party had set up as safe ground, rest, heal, restock, etc. If you try it as a one shot gauntlet, you're doomed. Hell, I'm still stuck in Castle Amber which I think I'm going to rule as impossible. Well, it is when the rest of your party is dead, and you're the only one left standing... *sigh* Caslte Amber is an Expert level adventure, and a very weak one (power level wise) at that. Your party should have been 4th to 7th level or thereabout. If so, that module should have been a cakewalk. I suspect bad luck or bad planning caused your parties doom there.
#24 chatdemon Jul 15, 2004 5:07:38	Originally posted by Carkni I have played a bit of Basic Edition, which I was told use an identical system or something. (Kind of like 2nd Edition, but without all those weird stuff.) I can say this about Basic Edition modules: They were not fit for whatever level they were tailored to. A "bit" of playing Basic D&D gives you the authority to make that claim? Not trying to be argumentative, but please realize that most people who have played a lot of Basic D&D over the years, like me, disagree with you. See my above post for details.
#25 Kamelion Jul 15, 2004 7:20:55	Originally posted by chatdemon Caslte Amber is an Expert level adventure, and a very weak one (power level wise) at that. Your party should have been 4th to 7th level or thereabout. If so, that module should have been a cakewalk. I suspect bad luck or bad planning caused your parties doom there. Heh, maybe he just can't find the gate to Averoigne or can't open it? You are kinda screwed if you are unable to locate it....
#26 zombiegleemax Aug 22, 2004 16:33:33	Apart from Ruins of Undermountain, that Halaster already mentioned, I must mention "For duty and Deity" as a module that I really enjoyed. It was very hard to prepare as DM, but the sense of fulfillment that it gave to players once finished was a really nice touch.
#27 protonik_dup Aug 23, 2004 1:09:52	Nothing to see here, carry on people...
#28 protonik_dup Aug 23, 2004 1:22:43	Originally posted by blackprinceofmuncie I don't have any experience with the others on that list, but even though these three weren't written for Forgotten Realms, you can't tell it from the writing. They "feel" FR all the way. YMMV. yeah but the Rod was written with Greyhawk in mind, the author said as much in Dragon magazine when the module originally came out! He had designed it with specific Greyhawk locations in mind but wrote it so that it could be played in FR or even Ravenloft with a little work! Talk about DM friendly eh? J