| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1ocalus_dupDec 05, 2006 9:56:43 | I have a staggeringly simple method I often use in order to roll fewer dice while DMing: Except for when threatened or distracted (such as in combat), simply assume that NPCs and monsters always take 10 on skill checks. As I said, staggeringly simple. I never considered this a "trick" until I observed other DMs who don't do it. I would never even have bothered with it myself until my gaming group started being unable to get together more than once a month and time became a precious and scarce commodity for us. A few seconds here and there for NPC and monster skill rolls added up to many minutes over the course of the evening--minutes that we could better spend playing. I'll grant that it is not to everyone's taste. Some folks will always prefer the randomness that die-rolling provides. More power to them. I don't always do it myself, but if you want to spend less time rolling dice then this simple technique works very well. It seems incredibly simplistic --and it is -- but it is also a tremendous time-saver. It also has the added benefit that when you pull the dice out the players know you really mean business. ;) |
| #2zombiegleemaxDec 13, 2006 2:49:17 | That works when the PCs/monsters have the time to take 10, but what about spot checks for a random encounter? A monster isn't going to sit still long enough for a character to take 10 on him for that range. What about listen checks? Sounds happen once; they don't hang around for a minute or two so you can take 10 to see if you hear it. Yeah, it speeds the game up, but it sacrifices what little realism there is in D&D by just assuming everyone is devoting 100% to every possible skill at any given point in time. I like the idea of players knowing you mean business when you do pull out the dice, but I personally prefer the "keep them on edge by rolling a d20 randomly for no reason" method. For added enjoyment, after you roll two or three times, ask them for their spot/listen modifiers and smile enigmatically. Someone has a +30? "You see/hear a slight rustle of underbrush nearby. You can't tell what it is, it could be anything really." ![]() |
| #3sinazDec 13, 2006 18:16:07 | That works when the PCs/monsters have the time to take 10, but what about spot checks for a random encounter? A monster isn't going to sit still long enough for a character to take 10 on him for that range. What about listen checks? Sounds happen once; they don't hang around for a minute or two so you can take 10 to see if you hear it. But he clearly stated that you apply this little mechanic when the players are not threatened or distracted. Spot checks for a random encounter fall under the "threatened" category. And as for listening, if the player is doing anything other than listening for strange sounds, then he falls into the "distracted" category. In both cases, the original poster has stated that you would roll for these checks. I'm in defense of this strategy because I use it myself. When the players are just milling about and have given me a short term objective, I simply roll play things according to taking 10. If a DC for something is above 10, then I roll the die. I take this instant take 10 a step further because my NPC opposed checks need to be higher than 10 for me to worry about the players rolling for it except in combat. Some of it is going to be based on style of play. For instance, in our games, when the players are not in combat, they declare a movement order via formation, and what their player is concentrating on. If I roll a hide check for an ambush party and score 7, then the player in the party who has stated "I'm keeping an eye out for signs of trouble" will spot this, as the poorly planned ambush has a DC of less than 10, and the player has stated, more or less, that he is taking 10 on spot checks. |
| #4taskiDec 13, 2006 18:42:16 | Taking 10 doesn't mean taking extra time, it just means you do an "average" job. It's taking 20 that requires extra time, since it means you're trying over and over again. |
| #5mcbardDec 14, 2006 9:48:31 | That works when the PCs/monsters have the time to take 10, but what about spot checks for a random encounter? It doesn't take a creature extra time to take 10 (you might be thinking of take 20). Basically, what Ocalus is suggesting is to turn opposed checks into set DCs, and there's no "loss of realism", it's merely a shift in game mechanic. Not only is it a bit of a time saver for the game, I would argue that fewer random spot/listen and even initiative rolls for monsters is more realistic. (btw, I would add monster initiative rolls to your list of averaged, non-rolled checks, Ocalus). For instance, since a monster with a 16 Dex and Improved Initiative is really only ever going to roll initiative once in its entire life (for the encounter with the PCs) I would argue it's more realistic to set its initiative at 17 (10+7), and force the PCs to beat it. Its initiative becomes a DC of sorts. Keep in mind that the PC with the 16 Dex and Improved Initiative gets many chances to roll initiative over his or her life, and so one non-typical low roll in one encounter will more than likely be offset by a typical and non-typical high roll later. I've also noticed that my players like this rule because their high initiative rolls always mean something good (as opposed to my telling them "well, I happened to roll a natural 19, so my adjusted 26 beats your 25. Sorry). Core D&D doesn't make us roll for AC, but we could. It has nothing to do with realism; it just speeds the game up, and puts the drama entirely in the attack roll. I see nothing wrong with turning opposed checks into PC-only-rolled DC checks, and agree it should be done more often, if not entirely as a rule |
| #6wackywizardDec 15, 2006 4:04:03 | This is a wonderful idea that is going to be implemented into my games, and the players need not even know it ! =) Thanks. P.S. this also helps me a great deal in knowing before hand the likely hood of thieves being spotted and the like. =) |
| #7UrathanderDec 17, 2006 11:25:58 | I like to roll initiative in the end of the previous encounter, so in the beginning of the next one you can jump directly to the action. It's not "save time" advice, but has a great impact. |
| #8zombiegleemaxDec 17, 2006 14:35:16 | And please, note that he mentioned "Monsters and NPCs", not players. I think it’s useful for the DM, not the Players and their PCs. As McBard said about initiative, and also counts for many other things: normally, a monster NPC will only ever make 1 or 2 Hide/Spot/Listen check in his life (unless it’s some recurring villain of some sort). |
| #9zombiegleemaxDec 19, 2006 18:38:02 | I think this is a great tactic, Ocalus. I am a DM that faces this very problem often. I know the feeling of a great encounter dying thanks to a bum Spot check or Initiative roll on the monster's part. Rest assured, I will be using this method. Thank you. ![]() |
| #10mellowshipJan 02, 2007 7:52:39 | (btw, I would add monster initiative rolls to your list of averaged, non-rolled checks, Ocalus). This is fine when the party is fighting a single monster, but becomes problematic when there are multiple monsters with the same initiative modifier. If all the monsters go on the same initiative, then it becomes much easier for them to concentrate attacks on one PC before the rest of the party can do anything to help. That can be deadly. |
| #11dengarbountyhunterJan 03, 2007 13:14:45 | That's an excellent point balance-wise, but it feels realistic to me that a gang of goblins attack all together (for example). |
| #12strange_personJan 09, 2007 19:27:25 | Besides, if you don't want the monsters to have a perfectly coordinated attack, you (as the DM) are well within your rights to roll some meaningless dice behind the screen, scratch a bit at random with your pencil, and give different monsters or groups of monsters (the four goblin bandits on the left side of the road, the three statistically identical goblin bandits on the right side of the road, the hobgoblin leader, and the NPC caravan guards) +/- 2 or more on initiative at your discretion. |
| #13finarin_panjoroJan 16, 2007 12:13:06 | I've also done this and I found that it worked magnificently. The main advantage is that a player always knows when he rolls well that it matters. The only thing that a standard opposed check does is add a greater level of randomness into the mix. A high roll by a PC does not necessarily mean anything if the NPC got a similarly high roll. It also means that PCs that really spend to max a skill out (like by getting magic items, both skill boosting feats, and max ranks) can be assured that their investment is going to pay off more frequently. Another major advantage is for planning on the DMs part. If he knows ahead of time the spot and hide DCs for an encounter he can get a better handle on the distance at which an encounter is likely. I concur that this is a good idea for initiative with single monsters or even with a few identical monsters all attacking from the same direction (3 ghouls, for example). However if there are multiple types of monsters or different groups (flanking groups, etc) I roll initiative by type and/or group. This means you don't have all of the monsters going at once and you can use some teamwork based on the results of other monsters' actions. For example, the players are fighting a boss vampire and six of his spawn. Three of the spawn are in front with the boss and three have come in behind the players. I roll three initiatives for monsters, boss, group 1, and group 2. I find that players enjoy it a little more if the round has a little different order sometimes rather than the monsters always going at the same time. Just my thoughts. |
| #14zombiegleemaxFeb 01, 2007 0:31:39 | Some folks will always prefer the randomness that die-rolling provides. More power to them. For those who do want to keep the randomness but not lose the game time is to just pre-roll the dice. The night (or week) before the game, the DM could spend a few minutes rolling a d20 a couple hundred times (or use a random number generator) and record the numbers. During the game, simply use the next number for the skill check, initiative, etc. When you're done, you can just recycle the numbers or generate a new list. |