They had a level cap, but could advance in ability with additional xp (this was indicated by a letter following their level, like 11B :D)
In Basic D&D (the Red Book), Dwarves were of character class "demi-human", and are basically fighters. They can't be clerics, fighters, thieves, or magic-users, because those are human classes. The other two classes were elf and halfling. Elves were a cross between fighters and magic users, while halflings were a cross between fighters and dwarves.
Wow, fishing out my old books sure brought back memories...
-Caver
OS: Yeah, I've got a level 7 Dwarf.
NS: Dwarf what?
OS: What do you mean?
NS: What class is he?
OS: ...Dwarf.
NS: ...Dwarf is his race. Is he a Fighter?
OS: Well, yeah. He specializes in his Waraxe.
NS: Ok. What's his AC?
OS: Pretty good, it's a -3.
NS: -3! Were you cursed by some kind of demigod!?!
OS: ...No...
NS: Well, what feats did you take to balance that out?
OS: ...Feats?
Wow, fishing out my old books sure brought back memories...
-Caver
Yeah, no kidding! :D
Anyone remember Star Frontiers? I loved that game, and Zebulon's guide was super stuff!
-Caver
Anyone remember Star Frontiers?
Star Frontiers, Top Secret, Gamma World and Marvel Superheroes RPG. Played them all and loved them all. Of the various games TSR made, only Boot Hill failed to capture my attention.
Star Frontiers, Top Secret, Gamma World and Marvel Superheroes RPG. Played them all and loved them all. Of the various games TSR made, only Boot Hill failed to capture my attention.
memories :D
my cred includes (but not limited to) CarWars, Toon, It Came From the Late Late Show, Paranoia, and Chill.
It has recently come to my attention that way back in the infancy of D&D, Dwarf was a class. Could someone please explain this to me? And what were the abilities that such a Dwarf recieved? Thanks in advance.
The way most gamers play them, dwarf may as well be a race, class, personality, alignment, history, and lifestyle.
Every player I've ever met plays dwarves the same way.
my cred includes ... Paranoia... .
You know, that's classified, don't you?
:D
You know, that's classified, don't you?
:D
The only people that know that are members of a secret society. Are you a member of a secret society?
The way most gamers play them, dwarf may as well be a race, class, personality, alignment, history, and lifestyle.
Every player I've ever met plays dwarves the same way.
Ah, well, you've obviously never met my Dwarven Bard, Yurten. He was more like a mellow Half-Orc Rogue, with a penchant for charmin' the ladies. LOL
Wow...no wonder the game's been through so many revisions. I can just imagine old-school gamers and new-school gamers trying to have a game-related conversation.
OS: Yeah, I've got a level 7 Dwarf.
NS: Dwarf what?
OS: What do you mean?
NS: What class is he?
OS: ...Dwarf.
NS: ...Dwarf is his race. Is he a Fighter?
OS: Well, yeah. He specializes in his Waraxe.
NS: Ok. What's his AC?
OS: Pretty good, it's a -3.
NS: -3! Were you cursed by some kind of demigod!?!
OS: ...No...
NS: Well, what feats did you take to balance that out?
OS: ...Feats?
That assumes any of us ever played the basic game. I don't think many of us actually did. We all seemed to own it, but everybody I knew got the AD&D PHB before we actually got a game going. (Remember, the basic set then, as with now, was a watered-down version of the Advanced rules - it wasn't the only set available to us.)
It would go like this:
You would save up your dimes and nickles, just hoppin' mad to get into that cool new game you saw your friends playing: D&D! When you had enough, you ran out and got the basic box set. You stayed up all night studying it, and struggling with your first character.
When Saturday came, you begged your buddies or their older brothers to let you play. When they finally agreed and saw your basic character, they laughed, told you to go save your dimes and nickles again, and get the AD&D rules.
Maybe they helped you and let you play anyway. But they never let you forget what a newb you were.
The Basic Set was generally not much more than a means to the first set of dice most of us would have, and a guarantee that we'd all end up with a copy of The Keep On The Border Lands in our collections.
Star Frontiers, Top Secret, Gamma World and Marvel Superheroes RPG. Played them all and loved them all. Of the various games TSR made, only Boot Hill failed to capture my attention.
Boot Hill rawks! I use it for pickup games at coventions and family gatherings! You also forgot to add in Gangbusters...Each character started out with one skill...
Anyone remember Star Frontiers?
I pored voraciously over those rules. Loved the set and the pictures. Couldn't get anyone to play it with me.
That assumes any of us ever played the basic game. I don't think many of us actually did. We all seemed to own it, but everybody I knew got the AD&D PHB before we actually got a game going. (Remember, the basic set then, as with now, was a watered-down version of the Advanced rules - it wasn't the only set available to us.)
It would go like this:
You would save up your dimes and nickles, just hoppin' mad to get into that cool new game you saw your friends playing: D&D! When you had enough, you ran out and got the basic box set. You stayed up all night studying it, and struggling with your first character.
When Saturday came, you begged your buddies or their older brothers to let you play. When they finally agreed and saw your basic character, they laughed, told you to go save your dimes and nickles again, and get the AD&D rules.
Maybe they helped you and let you play anyway. But they never let you forget what a newb you were.
The Basic Set was generally not much more than a means to the first set of dice most of us would have, and a guarantee that we'd all end up with a copy of The Keep On The Border Lands in our collections.
I played the boxed sets...In a couple of different varieties, no less! Didn't have enough dimes and nickles to start getting the advanced stuff for a couple of years...Eventually did get it though.
Star Frontiers, Top Secret, Gamma World and Marvel Superheroes RPG. Played them all and loved them all. Of the various games TSR made, only Boot Hill failed to capture my attention.
Yeah, me too. But I liked running into a gun fighter in D&D. Great cross over possibilities.
I pored voraciously over those rules. Loved the set and the pictures. Couldn't get anyone to play it with me.
It was a pretty solid game, and quite a bit of fun. Ahead of its time, I think, at least in many of the concepts.
And indeed, I *did* play the basic D&D boxed sets.
-Caver
My brother had the black 'expert' boxed set, and a gold one, I think it was immortals.
Every character carried a 10' pole and you did not need to roll damage for your weapons. I think they all did 6.
Anyone use battlesystem? It was a great source of figures (flat squares with pics on them) when you need a whole mass of them. I still use them today.
You know, that's classified, don't you?
:D
The computer is my friend, the computer wants me to be happy. I am happy because the computer said I was. :bounce:
Elf, on the other hand, was neato because that "class" cast spells almost as well as magic-users.
Halfling just sucked. They didn't even give it a few thief abilities, though we houseruled that in.
The basic game went all the way up to the mighty level of 3! With expansions though you could go up to 36 or some such.
Basic actually had one mechanic they have returned to somewhat, all stats using the same modifiers, and then the modifier just applying to everything. 3 was -3, 4-5 was -2, 6-8 was -1, 9-12 was nothing then back up to 18 for +3. That part was actually better done than AD@D.
memories :D
what's sadder, is my hubby played all the games (and i think still has the rules for) all the games in that picture.
I played the boxed sets...In a couple of different varieties, no less! Didn't have enough dimes and nickles to start getting the advanced stuff for a couple of years...Eventually did get it though.
ditto
basic, expert, companion ,and master rules boxed sets
Hell, I still play in a mish-mosh AD&D 1/2 campaign. :D
That assumes any of us ever played the basic game. I don't think many of us actually did. We all seemed to own it, but everybody I knew got the AD&D PHB before we actually got a game going. (Remember, the basic set then, as with now, was a watered-down version of the Advanced rules - it wasn't the only set available to us.)
?!? Actually most D&D players I know started out with OD&D -- I myself played OD&D for years, before moving to AD&D. It may not be so were you live, but in my country AD&D 1e was never that popular -- probably because OD&D was translated in 1985, contrary to AD&D 1e; even AD&D 2e arrived here only in 1994.
Also, OD&D wasn't a "watered-down" version of anything. For example, its monstrous PC rules are better (more consistent) than anything produced for AD&D. Its weapon mastery rules are much more complex than AD&D weapon specialization/fighting style. Its rules for divine PCs were never available in any form in AD&D.
The misconception that OD&D is "simple" is mostly due to the fact that the rules are spread across many books -- including lost of setting books, that add things like dwarf priests, halfling dual classed characters, demihuman with thief skills, specialty priests, monstrous PC classes (including generic rules for building monstrous hybrids like half-orcs/half-ogres, half elves and the like), and advanced classes (Paladins, Druids, Elf Wizards and Lords, specialized Magic Users).
The games are actually pretty different, since they evolved with separate goals -- AD&D 2e is certainly more coherent (though it still lacks some of the good points of OD&D) -- but when it was devised, OD&D had definitely grown out of any original idea of being the "basic" version of AD&D 1e.
I always thought it was funny that Barbarians are a class considering it's by definition a race of people.
Barbarian is not a race of people. It is, by "definition" anybody that is not Greek: Barbarian
The original D&D had only three classes: fighting-man, magic-user, & cleric. Dwarfs could only be fighting-men. (Pretty much the same with hobbits, although the author seemed to think nobody would really want to play a hobbit adventurer.) I don't remember all the special abilities dwarfs had, but improved saving throws were the biggy. The rest are nothing you wouldn't recognize from later editions.
Elves could switch between fighting-man & magic-user, but their limited advancement in both classes pretty much ensured that any elf PC that was played for a while might as well switch to the other class after hitting the level limit for his first class.
When the first (Holmes) Basic Set came out, it kept pretty close to the original in these aspects. The races weren't their own classes, but the way it was written, you could read it that way.
The second (Moldvay) Basic Set created the race classes. Since dwarves (& halflings) could only be fighters & just about every elf would be a fighter/MU, it made it simpler to make them classes. This also allowed adjusting their XP table to provide an additional means of balancing demi-humans--with their special abilities--against humans. (The level caps were all raised. Doubled?)
Now, in the original game, the Greyhawk supplement had added the thief class which was open to dwarfs & elves. So, it was no longer true that every dwarf was a fighter, but the Basic Set choose the simplicity of leaving all dwarfs as fighters & making all thieves human.
From then on, the demihumans were classes of their own in classic (non-Advanced, pre-2000) D&D. Well, almost. Some later supplements added additional classes that mixed things up a bit, but the core rules stuck to one class per demihuman race.
FWIW, while I did my share of ridiculing the race-classes in my younger days, I've come to appreciate them. Demihumans tended to dominate my AD&D games--which I'm not crazy about--& the race-classes tend to counter-act that. It also goes along with the idea that the advantage of humans is that they are more flexible/adaptible. I like the idea that demihumans don't worship deities, so I don't mind the lack of demihuman clerics. Even without that, though, just because their may be demihuman clerics in a setting, that doesn't mean that PCs must be allowed to be demihuman clerics.
Ha! 2y1y1z2's post cracked me up!
Anyone remember Star Frontiers? I loved that game, and Zebulon's guide was super stuff!
-Caver
Oh yeah, I played Star Frontiers every week after school for pretty much the entirety of 6th grade, this was back when D&D was verbotten in my Jr. High School (back when they called it Junior High insead of "middle" school).
Good times.
[Shamelss Plug]Much of the Star Frontiers material has been updated and converted to the d20 Modern/D20 Future rules set.[/Shamless Plug]
The misconception that OD&D is "simple" is mostly due to the fact that the rules are spread across many books
If I remember correctly, in basic boxed set the classes were fighter, magic-user, thief, cleric, elf, dwarf and halfling.
Eventually new classes were published, such as:
Druid, paladin, knigt, avenger, dervish, elementalist, dracologist, cryptomancer, necromancer, illusionist, witch, alchimist, dwarf-priest, elf-lord, elf-wizard, wise woman, halfling-master, merchant-prince, merchant, hakomoon, bratak, horse warrior, shaman (Monglian inspired character), shaman (Amerindian inspired character), shadowelf-shaman.
And, as more classes were a lot of races, from all goblinoid ones (kobold, goblin, orc, hobgoblin, ogre, bugbear, troll, gnoll), to unique races such as nagpa, wood imp, hsiao, skygnome, kopru, tabi, and many other classical ones, such as centaur, gnome, werewolf, acquatic elf, satyr, driad, and many others.
It was a nice world with many possibilities.
In Basic D&D (the Red Book), Dwarves were of character class "demi-human",
No, the class is called Dwarf.
My brother had the black 'expert' boxed set, and a gold one, I think it was immortals.
The black box was the Master's set, but yes the Gold was the Immortal's set. Basic was various shades of red or purple, expert was dark blue, companion was light blue.
Later on, the "classic d&d games" came along, which were essentially the basic set, repackaged in board game size boxes with big poster map dungeons and various play aids.
Before the basic-expert-companion-masters series, there were two incarnations of classic d&d:
Blue box basic set (called the Holmes version by most fans, in honor of the editor): Kind of a weird mix of Original D&D, Classic D&D and AD&D 1e.
Purple/Red basic set and dark blue expert set (called the BX or Moldvay or Moldvay/Cook edition, again, after the editors) Pretty much the same version of the game as the BECMI version (which is also known as the Mentzer edition), with some very minor changes.
Then there's the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, which took the BECM rules and compiled them into one hardback, along with some of the optional stuff from various sourcebooks. The companion set to this book, Wrath of the Immortals, replaced the immortals set.
And to add to the confusion even more, there is OD&D, which usually refers to the original D&D booklets, along with the supplements like Greyhawk, Blackmoor, etc. These were all published prior to Basic D&D and AD&D in the mid 1970s, and despite the names of the Greyhawk and Blackmoor supplements, have little to do with the later campaign settings of the same names (Blackmoor does have a sample adventure, the Temple of the Frog, which is part of the setting, but the supplements are not campaign setting manuals, they are expansion rule books.)
So,
OD&D = Original, pre-basic, pre-ad&d D&D
Classic, Basic, BX, BECM(I), RC (rules cyclopedia) = "basic d&d" in one of its incarnations.
And lastly, there are the D&D Basic Games published by WotC as introductions to 3rd edition D&D. These are in no way related to Classic/Basic D&D.
Much of the Star Frontiers material has been updated and converted to the d20 Modern/D20 Future rules set.
And for those who, like me, prefer their OOP games use the original OOP systems, almost all of the Star Frontiers material is (legally) hosted in its original form at www.starfrontiers.com
you did not need to roll damage for your weapons. I think they all did 6.
Well, in the earliest incarnations of D&D (OD&D and Holmes Basic set, iirc) all weapons did 1d6 damage, but you still had to roll for it.
AD&D and the Moldvay/Cook BX sets introduced variable weapon damage as an official part of the game.
That assumes any of us ever played the basic game. I don't think many of us actually did.
A lot of people did, and quite a few of us still do.
shaman (Amerindian inspired character),
This one is actually called the "Shamani".
You also have specialty priests, as in the AD&D sense, in WotI and in Hollow World (and in several other supplements there are minor variations of the Cleric class, with different or additional spells and special weapons).
There are also the Elf Fighter, Krugel Orc, Lizardman, Kubbit, Neanderthal, Hutaakan and Beastman from Hollow World [
]And the Elf Shaman and Gnoll Fighter/Wizard from Champions of Mystara, and the Ndjatwa, Bard, Druidic Knight, and Rakasta, Half-Elf and Lupin (the last three are races, not race/classes combinations) from Dragon Magazine articles.
It was a nice world with many possibilities.
Well, it still is [;)]
That assumes any of us ever played the basic game. I don't think many of us actually did.
A lot of people did, and quite a few of us still do.
Indeed. When I run D&D, it's Basic/Expert (Moldvay/Cook). In fact, I started on Holmes Basic (the Blue Box) before 1st edition was even released.
To be fair, I played a LOT of 1e after it came out. But nowadays, it's C&C, WFRP, Savage Worlds, or good ol' B/X.