Low Magic D&D Made Fun and Easy For Everyone

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Jan 02, 2007 18:59:21
Writer's note: I see a lot of posts decrying how "high magic" D&D has gotten, with its focus on magic items and player power. And I see even more posts with people decrying DMs who are playing in "low magic" games, only to have the games really be "low magic for the PCs" games. This is intended as a primer, and nowhere near comprehensive, of things I have found that need to change in order to run a proper low magic D&D game.

There are a number of things one must alter in order to run a low-magic D&D game. In no particular order:

• Magic items are not available on any form of open market. One cannot exchange gold pieces for equipment at any point in time. Magic items are the rarest of the rare, and are given as gifts or stolen as booty. Not handled like a commodity.

• Treasure, in general, should be cut in half. Without high market value items to purchase, there is rarely a need for a PC to have more than a few hundred gp at hand. This means that all monsters that generate treasure generate treasure equal to a CR 1 – 5 encounter, except there is no chance for a minor magic item drop. (If this is rolled, simply double the number of “mundane” items available, or substitute it for a masterwork (+1/+2/+3) weapon or armor.)

• By the same token, spellcasters are not freely available to cast whatever spells an individual might wish. If there are spellcasters in a town, they are ½ the level that would be determined by “random population” generation for PC classes (Adepts are fine).

• Due to the lack of magic items, “masterwork” items can be purchased with varying levels of “master-tude”. These are generally divided into masterwork (+1), masterwork (+2), and masterwork (+3). Weapons, like usual, add bonus as an enhancement to attacks (not damage). Armor, as usual, subtract it from their armor check penalties. (Making masterwork armor kind of useless, but then again they already were.) In order for a PC to craft a magic item, they require at least a masterwork (+1) item. This cost should be +1,000 for weapons (+2) and +4,000 for weapons (+3), or +500/+2,000 for armor.

• The crafting feats can continue to exist, however magic item crafting costs twice the amount of XP, and the same amount in materials. For a truly low-magic game, you can have them need to pay the full market value in materials for the item.

• Due to the rarity of spellcasters, should they actually require a spell to be cast on their benefit from a spellslinger-for-hire, the price of the spell will be 1000% normal. (That is, 100 x Spell Level x Caster level, half for a 0th level spell.) Remember that spellcasters will never be available to cast any spells higher than 5th.

• Raise dead and other resurrection magics are not available to anyone and everyone. Not only need the individual provide the cost of the spell (at the improved price, see above) and the cost of the material component (as normal), but a Church will require the raised member to prove their worth by sending them on a quest of some importance to the church or make some worthy donation (such as establishing a parish or shrine, or making a pilgrimage to defend a shrine from sacrilege.) Non-members of the church will require some diplomacy to raise, and will then be given a geas/quest. Remember that due to the limitations on spellcaster limits, only the largest cities or the holiest of temples is likely to have a priest of a high enough level to cast a raise dead. Resurrection and True Resurrection are nigh impossible to find.

• Spellcasters, in general, are mistrusted. Clerics might be less so (though anyone so holy as to call down the power of the gods should be terrifying indeed) but anyone who thinks about setting up shop offering healing for hire will find themselves swamped and overrun (leading to deep questioning from the members of his church.)

• Paladins, and Rangers need be reworked, with the suggestions in Complete Warrior. Other classes are fine. (It’s not a No-magic world, just a low-magic world.)

• A low magic D&D world is a D&D world with a small economy. This is reflected in the fact that monster treasure hordes do not often go beyond the CR 5 range; PCs simply do not need and will not have lots of money to buy things with. The DM should thus reflect this, by making gold pieces rare; hand out most treasure in silver and copper, and all prices are given in silver pieces. Drive the point home that gold pieces (at least, more than a handful of them) are something the average commoner doesn’t ever see in his life. (That doesn’t mean that there aren’t millions of gold pieces available in the world, it simply means that people don’t know about and will never find out about them.)

• Because saving throws, ACs, HP, attacks, and damage are generally lower, as well as equipment will probably be not as prodigious, creatures will need to have their CRs adjusted (slightly.) All spellcasters (including Adepts) have their CRs increased by +1 (this means NPC spellcasters have a CR equal to their class level; PC spellcasters have their CR equal to their levels +1).

• All True Dragons have their CR increased by +1.

• The following creatures go from CR 3 to CR 4:
o Allip
o Cockatrice
o Dryad
o Ethereal filcher
o Ethereal marauder
o Ghast
o Grick
o Hell Hound
o Magmin
o Mephit
o Phantom Fungus
o Shadow

• The following creatures go from CR 4 to CR 5:
o Archon, hound
o Barghest
o Displacer beast
o Hydra, five-headed
o Janni (genie)
o Sea hag
o Vampire spawn

• All CR 5 creatures of the following type have their CRs increased to 6: Aberration, Constructs, Fey, Monstrous Humanoid, Outsider, Undead. Creatures with the incorporeal subtype also have this increase (non-cumulative.)

• All CR 6 – CR 9 creatures (except those of the Animal type) have their CR increased by 1. These creatures at this point have magical abilities and defenses that make it difficult for the PCs to fight them, and those that don’t tend to have high hit points or natural armor.

• All CR 10+ creatures (except animals) have their CR increased by +2. Animals have their CR increased by +1. All creatures at this point have high defenses that require magic to get through, and PCs by then are presumed to have magic to defend themselves.

• All templates have their CR increased by +1. (There are a few exceptions to this rule, but mostly in non-core/non-SRD cases.)

Some Notes: The most important thing to note is that, short of the limitations on PC equipment choice, no other limitations are placed on the PCs. The PCs can still be spellcasters (see below). All of the limitations are on NPCs, and this is a huge part of making a low magic world run well – too many PCs have had bad experiences with DMs who play “low magic” campaigns where the PCs are stuck being 3rd level commoners facing legions and legions of sorcerers and wizards.

Spellcasters as PCs (Or, Won’t it Unbalance my Game if the PCs are spellcasters?): Spellcaster PCs in a low magic world do not unbalance the game in any way whatsoever. This is for various reasons:
1) Spellcasting PCs face the same limitations that non-spellcasting PCs face. Their equipment, hit points, saves, armor class, etc., will all be the same. Yes, they have spells that have DCs that are harder for NPCs to make, but the number of spells they can cast is limited (even more so, probably, than a standard game, see below) and most creatures they face have already been built to withstand the attacks normally. (Remember, also, that generally speaking NPCs face similar limitations as PCs do, and thus are both on par on a general “Challenge Rating” level, and therefore don’t need their CRs adjusted for the single NPC vs. spellcaster encounter.)
2) Spellcasting PCs will have to spend most of their spells in buffs and other defenses because they don’t have the resources normally available to them, thus granting them less offensive power.

Q: But won’t clerics/druids become even more powerful, since they don’t need equipment?
A: Generally, yes. However, most clerics/druids aren’t working in a vacuum – they have a party to support. And this party now has less by way of resources to survive, thus meaning the cleric will need to spend a lot more spell slots on healing. Alternatively, a cleric/druid who spends all his spells on buffing himself now has less healing to dole out, making it more challenging for the party in general. (In other words, a cleric who does this is putting the entire party in danger, and will probably be kicked out of the party for being selfish.)
#2

zombiegleemax

Jan 11, 2007 14:17:35
Good post. The CR and treasure adjustments look well thought-out. I would have liked to see some suggestions for high-value items given out as treasure. I suppose art objects and gems would have to play a far greater role, and the DM should pay more attention to their placement and descriptions.

This is a good start for adjusting the mechanics of D&D for a low-magic world, but a DM approaching this seriously will need more solutions on the "fluff" side, such as a more in-depth look at the economy, and the things that people will trade and value highly in the absence of powerful magic items.
#3

ludomastro

Jan 15, 2007 0:09:52
This is a well written and well thought out way to make D&D "low magic". I prefer to play in a low magic / high mana game anyway but now here is an easy way to do that.

#4

highbulp

Jan 15, 2007 13:36:59
I like that this article addresses the two common criticisms of "low-magic" games.

1) It needlessly limits the PCs, so that they players aren't having as much fun.

Most of the suggestions in this article are about lowering wealth available, instead of restricting classes or class features (with the slight exception of the Paladin/Ranger suggestions. I'd argue that if you allow a Cleric 5 / Fighter 15, why not allow a Paladin?). Gear available is, despite the guidelines in the DMG, solely the DM's provenance. The PCs aren't being limited, they just can't assume to have a certain set of gear by a certain level.

2) DMs only restrict magic for the PCs, meaning that monsters (or the DMPC, which is another issue) are much better, so that the player's aren't having as much fun.

This article spends a lot of time focusing on how to refigure the CR of creatures, so that they AREN'T much better than the PCs. With a simple CR adjustment, suddenly not having a bunch of magic items isn't so much of a drawback.

The only other point I'd make is that this "low-magic" game isn't necessarily as low on magic as some people might like. Any game where half an adventuring party can cast spells could be seen as not being low on magic. This is more a "low-wealth" game than a "low-magic" game. But the same basic principles apply.
#5

zombiegleemax

Jan 16, 2007 9:59:18
"Alternatively, a cleric/druid who spends all his spells on buffing himself now has less healing to dole out, making it more challenging for the party in general. (In other words, a cleric who does this is putting the entire party in danger, and will probably be kicked out of the party for being selfish.)"

So what if the party is cleric-only? Why should the cleric be condemned to a life of healing party members "just because he can"? If he is buffing himself and slaughtering anything on his path, this would make him useful to the party too.
#6

enderlaand

Jan 16, 2007 11:18:44
This looks great. If I hadn't just started a campaign, I'd start one with these low-magic rules. I've thought about something like this myself, but you've put all the work into it! Thanks.
#7

zombiegleemax

Jan 17, 2007 14:52:21
Two points I want to reply to (so far):

The only other point I'd make is that this "low-magic" game isn't necessarily as low on magic as some people might like. Any game where half an adventuring party can cast spells could be seen as not being low on magic. This is more a "low-wealth" game than a "low-magic" game. But the same basic principles apply.

This is true. One could take it a step further and start limiting spells and spellcasting classes. While I strongly hesitate to advise this (it is, after all, a slippery slope to which we've already taken steps - your tangent about why I chose to restrict the Paladin/Ranger in this way illustrates that) the likeliest option is to simply do without the spellcasting classes as they are written (this would include the Bard, although the Bard can easily have his/her spellcasting replaced with a more musical/inspirational system that balances out this loss). For example, by allowing players to play only adepts.

See, the reason I say this is because adepts have already been written out, and I think everyone can agree they're balanced in and of themselves. (If not leaning towards the weaker version of the fence.) If you do his, however, it must be a full restriction. I think the most important part of the article is for DMs to apply all restrictions equally. Whereas to choose a different option would require a DM to, essentially, ad hoc the spellcasting classes - which means more work for the DM.

If I were to do this in a low magic world (which, I think I've made clear, I consider this too low magic) I would probably open up the adepts spell selection options a little, and allow a few extra wizard or cleric spells.

So what if the party is cleric-only? Why should the cleric be condemned to a life of healing party members "just because he can"? If he is buffing himself and slaughtering anything on his path, this would make him useful to the party too.

The only thing stopping every member of the party from playing Clerics is the fact that D&D is meant to be a game that punishes character overlap. If you, as a DM, are only throwing combat encounters at them (that can be circumvented via reasonable cleric spells, for not all combat encounters can) then there's nothing at all stopping your players from reaping the rewards of such a system. However, it doesn't inherently break your game because you're playing in a low magic campaign - it simply does so because a party full of clerics was already "broken" (and I say this lightly, for the qualification too easily tossed around and I don't necessarily feel it is so) anyhow.

(In other words, throw lots and lots of traps at them. Clerics for the most part suck at finding and disabling traps.)
#8

skarsgard

Jan 17, 2007 19:17:23
Interesting ideas. I'm running a game soon and was planning on getting rid of wizards/sorcerers/clerics/bards as available character classes.

Rangers/Paladins would still get their spells and the only pure spellcaster available would be the npc Adept class. To allow a little variety people could alter the spell list with similar spells from either the cleric or wizard list. So, an adept that can cast lightning bolt could exchange it for fireball (permanently) or change cure moderate wounds for Aid.

I think at the heart of it the pure spellcasters are too nasty and that the adept is more in line with the way they should be.
#9

werral

Jan 18, 2007 16:31:38
I don't think low magic has to be low wealth. Players can buy or be given land, build castles, hire armies, buy ships and hire crews for them...

It changes the way high level characters work, but can be fun - lay siege to the Dark Lords castle rather then the 6 of you just marching in. You can always have adventures where you can't use an army and the mix keeps things interesting.

Besides castles, armies and such tie characters into the campaign world (because armies can mutiny and need to be fed) in a way that magic items do not (in that they make you more independent).

Also fighter types with high Chr would no longer be "sub-optimal" because Chr is important for leadership.
#10

zombiegleemax

Jan 19, 2007 11:51:07
I don't think low magic has to be low wealth. Players can buy or be given land, build castles, hire armies, buy ships and hire crews for them...

Yes, and these types of rewards should substitute for the higher level magic items and treasures. This is why you hand out CR 1 - CR 5 treasures only. PCs aren't going to be blowing thousands of GP at a time, so what little they do get will accrue quickly, thus allowing them to buy land and build castles, etc. (Besides, castle building is a laborious process, and I don't know of anyone who would rule that you have to have the 100,000 gp or whatever immediately at one time if its going to take a bunch of craftsmen several years to finish it.)
#11

werral

Jan 24, 2007 6:09:51
Yes, and these types of rewards should substitute for the higher level magic items and treasures. This is why you hand out CR 1 - CR 5 treasures only. PCs aren't going to be blowing thousands of GP at a time, so what little they do get will accrue quickly, thus allowing them to buy land and build castles, etc. (Besides, castle building is a laborious process, and I don't know of anyone who would rule that you have to have the 100,000 gp or whatever immediately at one time if its going to take a bunch of craftsmen several years to finish it.)

Yes but awards don't have to be money, they can be anything of that value. If they're given or capture a ship then that's a big award. Likewise if they capture a castle. You'd probably end up using the miniatures rules (or similar) a lot in such a campaign. Also in D&D you can skip time. Last play session ended with the PCs building a castle, this week's they defend the craftsmen from attack and next week (years in game time) the castle is ready.
#12

zombiegleemax

Jan 28, 2007 8:15:15
Really good system. I use a similar one for my games. Excellent, its good to see other low-magic fans.
#13

westprog

Jan 30, 2007 12:05:20
I'm planning to resume DMing after a long hiatus - being able to use software aids makes it practical. I've decided to start from scratch with 3.0/3.5, having used all the previous rule sets years ago.

I plan to initially allow players to only have fighters to start with. They will also encounter very little magic. This will allow us to get things going with a gentle learning curve, since a number of players will be D&D novices, and nearly all of them will be new to version 3. (Which is version 5 for me).

I will be players to choose characters who will expect to switch class as soon as they go up a level. They should also choose feats that they will be likely to use. So the character who intends to be a Wizard will have more intelligence than strength, and will use missile weapons rather than engage in melee.

I'd expect the party to encounter some low-level magic before they have a chance to use it themselves. It should be something mysterious and strange for them.

Gradually they will encounter more and more magic, though I will try to keep it far more restrained than previously. One mistake I made previously was to be far to generous with magic weapons and wands, and far too mean with potions and scrolls. I also intend that almost everything they get early on will have awkward side effects. And if they fight a group of orcs, the magic sword will be out there hitting them, not hidden in a chest.
#14

danielinthewolvesden

Feb 10, 2007 2:19:18
That is 21 rules or suggestions. Actually, you need just one; Play Iron Heroes, not standard D&D.

Look, just like a hammer is good for nails and a screwdriver is good for screws, you match the right tool to the right job. The right tool for Mid level magic (+/- a tad) is Std D&D. The right tool for Low magic is Iron Heroes.
#15

westprog

Feb 17, 2007 4:01:22
That is 21 rules or suggestions. Actually, you need just one; Play Iron Heroes, not standard D&D.

Look, just like a hammer is good for nails and a screwdriver is good for screws, you match the right tool to the right job. The right tool for Mid level magic (+/- a tad) is Std D&D. The right tool for Low magic is Iron Heroes.

Iron Heroes is interesting, but it isn't what I, personally require. I'm quite happy for my characters to be Clerics, Sorcerers and Wizards eventually; I just want them to work up to it.

Part of my motivation is to make magic something strange, exciting and new when it does appear. Partly it's to simplify the rules initially so that all that needs to be addressed in the first few sessions is simple combat. I'll have an inexperienced group of players for the most part, and I'll be learning D&D 3 myself, though I've played all the previous versions.

The level of magic I'm happy with can easily fit in with standard D&D.
#16

zombiegleemax

Mar 17, 2007 15:47:43
I think it's a good system. It would make players more careful, knowing they can't rely on their wands for healing. I don't think it would make spellcasters too strong, but would actually bring them down relatively more, since spellcasters must rely more on magic items, especially for AC.
#17

zombiegleemax

Mar 19, 2007 12:24:32
I have some low magic rules written up and my restriction for spellcasting classes is to limit the maximum spellcaster level to 1/2 of their character level (rounded up). So, a 9th level character could have at most 5th level spellcasting abilities - 4th level fighter/5th level cleric for example.

If the character exceeds the limit by single classing a spellcasting class or picking up full caster level prestige classes, then they still are limited to 1/2 their level in spellcasting ability (thought I allow their caster level to go up for duration and other effects).

This way the characters can still pick up small doses of magic, but major magic effects such as flying and teleporting come much later as characters reach high levels.
#18

tarlss

Mar 19, 2007 14:30:25
This doesn't really help anything. You've done nothing to address the concerns of people who were already wary about low magic scenarios. Sure, someone just desperate for a 'low magic' game might find mild use of this, but they were going to do this kind of thing already.

You've just taken the gulf between spellcasters and nonspellcasters, and exacerbated it to a greater degree. Removing equipment hurts nonmagic users much more, because they can be stopped with two spells: Stoneskin/Protection from Arrows, and Fly. Two spells. Your low magic world just exploded. No one's going to be able touch smart wizard-O in a fight. Sorry. Oh yeah, and he can spit out magic missiles and scorching rays on his way out, too.

So your idea of 'balance' is to do nothing mechanical to correct the fundamental mechanical imbalance (Removal of equipment) and stick in some kind of undefined 'social mechanism'? You just tried to replace the entire magic item balance system with two sentences, "Spellcasters get stigma." Sorry, not that easy.

And your idea of rebalancing clerics and druids is that they'll have to pick up the slack of the other players? Gee, I wonder who will want to play a non-magic user now. Certainly no one with a motive further than a stage acting creed. In other words, this kind of setting serves no other purpose than people who voluntarily know that everything is unbalanced and want to play, or otherwise are completely ignorant of what they're getting into. Anyone with knowledge or interest of how things work mechanically or a desire for equality between classes will stay away from this like the plague.

This is not a 'low-magic' setting. This is a poorly balanced setting. This is a 'spellcasters to the forefront' setting. It does not dull the effects of magic in the setting, but rather exacerbates it, which is frankly, deceptive. If all the players decided to play spellcasters and have it out with the rest of the setting, it would probably fall apart.

So, this doesn't look like much fun at all. In fact, it suffers from what most 'low-magic' deals suffer from: Plenty of 'DM Approval' because it fits 'their vision' of the world. I mean, look at your comments here. "Gee, it'll make the players more careful."

You rely on player conflict to address balance issues. That's not going to make clerics more fun to play. It's just going to make life miserable when there's a cleric in the party. Someone is not going to be happy here.

No gear? We already know this basic principle. If the laws of physics apply to some people, and not others, than the people in the latter category are inherently better. No question. If mundanes are to compete, they must be MUCH better at mundane tasks (which, they are not) or they too must have access to extraordinary abilities. Is a melee nonspellcaster better than a melee oriented spellcaster? No. Is a spellcaster specialized in well...anything, worse than his mundane counterpart? No. These problems are made worse because their mundane counterparts suddenly have no access to the commonplace spellcasting (Magic Items) that they used to.

Your system fails to properly address the concerns of players, and the actual concerns of a game in progress. Balance is poor, conflict is rife, and the setting offers little in the way of reward. You rely on the DM to adjudicate these issues alone--a perilous course of action. It's like removing the safety belts and relying on the driver to keep people safe. That doesn't mean you have a better driver, just means when an accident happens, everyone gets seriously hurt.
#19

zombiegleemax

Mar 19, 2007 18:46:41
To go along with the low-magic, low-wealth thing, of which I wholly approve, another of my pet peeves in D&D game worlds is the fact that everyone seems to walk around in armor all the time. Last game session our PCs were at an inn, and there were three people sitting at a table near ours, all in leather armor. “In the common room an the inn?” I asked. “Are they off-duty militia or something?.” But it turned out they’re just schmoes from the thieves’ guild. Just havin’ some chow, drinkin’ some beers, wearin’ some armor.

DM: You enter the blacksmith’s shop, and there’s a big, ugly guy working iron on the anvil. He’s wearing chainmail and has a longsword.
Me: He’s wearing chainmail?
DM: Yes?
Me: While he’s blacksmithing? And with a sword strapped to his belt? Is he some kind of masochist? He’s got to be hot as hell!
DM: *shrugs*
Me: Well that’s some kind of security! What the heck is he afraid of? What sort of intruder is he anticipating that could not be deterred simply by brandishing red-hot iron and a striking hammer? What danger could there be in his own blacksmith’s shop that would require the smith to be ready to go with full arms and armor? Look, if things are that bad for this guy, then maybe he should close the shop for a while.

I prefer a campaign where armor, like magic and gold, is a rare and special thing. (I like the defense bonus concept in Unearthed Arcana.) Again, it doesn’t mean that PCs don’t have armor, it just means they value what armor they have, and they don’t go tooling around town in full armor without probable cause, or else they get a lot of strange looks from the locals, and a lot of tomatoes thrown at them (from behind, of course).
#20

bowmore

Mar 19, 2007 20:40:39
These suggestions are great, and very well thought out. I'll definitely be taking a page from these when I finally start my own low-magic game.

Iron Heroes is also great for low- to no-magic games, but the main problem with it lies in how complex regular play is with it. Regardless of which class you take, you're likely going to be keeping track of no less than three or four pools of tokens at a time -- more at high levels!

Iron Heroes is great for low- to no-magic games if you're already experienced with D&D. My problem with playing Iron Heroes lies right inside the cover, on page 4 under "What Is In This Book."

It goes something like this:

It should be noted that this book is intended for those who have already played roleplaying games in the past. Beginners looking for a simplistic, tutorial-style game book should look elsewhere. This is an advanced rulebook.

I don't have a problem with that, but a lot of the people I play D&D with tend to be fairly new to the game or get turned off from the game and lose enthusiasm when the rules become too complex. For us, fun takes priority over numbers, and story always wins over rules.

Also, tokens are for chumps.
#21

navar100

Mar 19, 2007 22:47:33
You can adjust CRs all you want, but when I see "low magic campaign", I still see it has "player characters not allowed to do anything kewl." I think it's a cure worse than the disease. It's not as if dedicated warriors, given no magic item fighting bad guys where you don't need magic items, can't be powerful. A raging half-orc barbarian power attacking with a greatsword is going to deal punishment regardless of the magical nature of the greatsword.

Then why does he need a magic item, you may ask. He doesn't. However, why are you restricting magic items so harshly in the first place? What is it about magic that you are finding so horrid, to exaggerate, that you feel the need to do away with it altogether? Why does it bother you a party can heal itself up after a battle? Why does it bother you someone has +2 resistance bonus to his saving throws?

Certainly some spells are a big to do. Teleporting, save or die, polymorphing - they have their difficulties. I would think such spells could be fixed on their own, if they need "fixing", rather than getting rid of magic altogether. Changing polymorph into various polymorph into specific creatures, each at different levels, is a nice way to go. Being able to teleport only to places you've already physically been to works, thus no more scry and teleport. Solving these spell "problems" by making the players feel so special they found their first potion of cure light wounds at level 8 sounds more like DM dictatorship to me.

(From defending against fighters are too weak to defending against spellcasters are too powerful. :P )
#22

doodle

Mar 20, 2007 16:47:49
Unfortunately, I think you left out one important part... inter-party balance. While you did a good job of trying to account for how party wealth/treasure is important in the overall balance of the CR system, you failed to address that balance within the party.

In the "iconic" party the fighter needs magic to make up for polymorph/summons/etc. Under this ruleset, there is even less debate that the casters are better "tanks" at level 8+ than in a regular magic campaign.

I find it slightly ironic that you are limiting the spellcasting available to NPCs characters, but not the spellcasting available to PC characters.
#23

archangel62

Mar 20, 2007 20:26:20
My concern is that item crafting can get a lot more complicated with this design because you either need to increase the cost or add some additional feature (exotic reagents or the like to make it more feasible) or maybe use something like the augment crystals for the purposes of the game. Low magic games can be good, I've played in several, but the key problem is that the DM needs to sit down and work out the plans to an extreme advance to make sure that the game doesn't start swinging wildly.
#24

scienceman47

Mar 21, 2007 0:07:20
Hmmm. I've played several low magic games. And they all have the same thing in common. Spellcasters dominate the story, the party, and the game more thoroughly. It’s a simple matter of economics. You make spells extremely rare, so spells become more valuable. Rather than play a noncaster, you play a variety of full casters.

Traps are no problem, find traps is a second lvl spell for cleric. Dispel destroys magical traps. Teleporting avoids mundane. AC boosters? Buffs? Try summoning. Your pet devils or such are stronger, because enemies have become weaker and methods of bypassing their DR become very hard to acquire. A bit more difficult than normal but keeping a retinue of zombies or skeletons can also provide oodles of HP and with greater than average effectiveness because of the general change in opponent power level. Or charm/dominate/mind rewrite a giant or three.

The fighters suck threads asserted that if a cleric can do the job of the fighter even as well as the fighter can, then he should be dumped, because the fighter is effectively a poor opportunity cost. While it was proven that the fighter keeps up fine in normal play, you've now altered the mechanics.

Even you acknowledge that casters become generally more powerful under this system. A logical error is made, that the relative weakness of the other characters will help to bring the cleric in line with his given role as heal-bot. This is flawed. The assumption is that the party will not simply pick up another cleric, who you yourself asserted was stronger in the system you presented. Rather than stretch the cleric to his limits taking care of everyone else, the party simply gets a second one. Or a druid, who comes with a scaling animal companion.

The parties chance in the clerics absence becomes abysmal, because of the complete lack of item based healing. The wizard's magic is also unduplicatable. What does the fighter do when his hit points run low. Or how about waves of exhaustion spell? What is his recovery. If a caster casts wall of force? The fight is over.

I'm not sure what your trying to do. If you want magic to be the driving force in your game, than this is a primo system. If you want "low magic items", this is good. As a way to pull full casters away from the limelight, well, what you did was gouge out one of their eyes, and proceeded to permanently blind the non full casters.

If you want miraculous magic, what you want is ongoing spell effects in an area beyond what mages can do. Magic forms the encounter or the resolution or some other plot device of your choosing, versus another way of inflicting a handful of D6's. Any magical item that increases a flat stat (think The Big 6) should be dropped from the world altogether. And most importantly, casters in general should be kept real low, or removed altogether. Or just play Iron Heroes.
#25

zombiegleemax

Mar 21, 2007 2:21:21
That is 21 rules or suggestions. Actually, you need just one; Play Iron Heroes, not standard D&D.

Look, just like a hammer is good for nails and a screwdriver is good for screws, you match the right tool to the right job. The right tool for Mid level magic (+/- a tad) is Std D&D. The right tool for Low magic is Iron Heroes.

I want to second this concept. Instead of changing D&D into something its not, shop around on the rpg market for another set of rules. There are plenty of games with wonderful rules that are well suited to low magic fantasy campaigns.

My personal favorite is Pendragon, currently in its 5th Edition. A simple search will find a location where the rules can be bought. Good news for any old KAP fans is that Greg Stafford is working on this game again.
#26

holy_beholder

Mar 21, 2007 20:23:01
Actually, spell casters will be pretty easy to adjust. All spells are two levels higher than they would normally be. Take off a few spell slots. The more complicated/fairer alternative. Keep spells their own level, but change the level you get them. As in, first level spells are available at level 1, second 4, third 7, fourth 10, fifth 13, sixth 16, seventh 19. If this is too overpowered there is first level 1, second 5, third 9, fourth 14, fifth 19. Then epic spell casters have the higher level spells, which in a low magic world, are proportionately more powerful. So with the first progression, at level 22 eighth level, and ninth 25. For second, sixth 23, seventh 27, eighth 31, ninth 35. And I'm pretty sure legendary figures like Bigby and Mordekain tend to be in the thirties, so it fits well.
#27

werral

Mar 22, 2007 7:40:19
I want to second this concept. Instead of changing D&D into something its not, shop around on the rpg market for another set of rules. There are plenty of games with wonderful rules that are well suited to low magic fantasy campaigns.

My personal favorite is Pendragon, currently in its 5th Edition. A simple search will find a location where the rules can be bought. Good news for any old KAP fans is that Greg Stafford is working on this game again.

We always played lots of different RPG's (D&D, Warhammer, Pendragon, Ars Magica) and we often mixed and matched too - (Pendragons traits and passions system, D&D's fast and loose pace and flexibility, Warhammer's dark brooding atmosphere...)

Still, D&D should be customisable. Every DM should be able to make a campaign the way the group wants. The best would be where D&D had a "magic level" system (say 0= no magic and 10=every commoner has access to 3rd level spells). Then you could say to the group, "We're playing a magic level 3 campaign" and all the rules/CR/treasure tables would fit into place.
#28

akakagewarrior

Mar 22, 2007 9:52:11
Well done! I'm also one of those preferring players (me included, I never DM) who do not have as much wealth as a small town from level 5 on, and that only in the form of 1 magic ring (for example).

In our campaigns things have gone a little out of hand recently, meaning that we almost have as much wealth per level as proposed by the books...

AKW
#29

greyeagle

Mar 22, 2007 11:39:27
The only concern i have with low magic campaigns, and I’m trying to deal with it as I myself am in a low magic campaign, is the enormous gap that will assert itself between players and monsters once the party reaches 15th lvl. At that point you typically rely heavily on spells/ equipment/ and magic in general to do anything effectively. Any suggestions for that?
#30

arturius1

Mar 22, 2007 12:51:38
As much as I like the idea of a low-magic world, it's impossible to maintain for a couple reasons. First, item creation feats. Second, weapons of legacy. Both bring the party back into normal (if not high) magic settings with the rest of the world in low. Make a bag of holding and sell it for an ungodly price because they generally don't exist.
#31

valk

Mar 22, 2007 17:30:12
As others said your rules do nothing to stop casters. I had a DM that kind of used these rules, except that he also made grapple, trip and disarm unavailable to players.

When I quit the campaign party composition was: Druid (me), 2 Clerics, Wizard, Monk. The monk just never got around to die and roll a caster, and he was also utterly useless every fight.
When I joined fairly early (but after the campaign started) it was: Fighter, rogue, cleric, ranger (me), monk.

But when the cleric's spiritual weapon consistently out damages your archer, you are very happy when you finally die and get to make a spellcaster.

I once tried to make a low-magic system by applying a nerfing rod to all spells, but after a few hours of boring spell revisioning, google told me that I should just get Iron Kingdoms if I ever wanted to play low-magic.
#32

the_levitator

Mar 22, 2007 22:30:31
We play in a high magic/low availability world, but I also changed the stat and feat increases too. My players wanted to be the heroes, not their gear, so I made some adjustments:

+ I don't really have mundane weapons anymore. Magical weapons are usually at least +2 or +1 with a special enhancement. The same goes for armor.

+ To make combat a little grittier, we use the Opposed Defense Roll variant, Armor as DR variant (modified with help from Solaris), Class Defense Bonus (simplified, just = BAB), Clobbered variant, and the Facing variant from the DMG.

+ Rather than reconstruct the entire magic system, I just backed off the power levels and quantities of high level casters in our world. A city of 1000 people might have 1 caster under 4th and a few adepts. We don't usually go past 12th level, so casters higher than that can be counted on 1 hand.

+ Magical items have a chance of reacting with each other. In our world, I wanted to make things a little more random with the magic. So, each magical item has a signature of sorts from its maker, making it unique. Since there are so many different types of wizards creating their items and not much in the way of standardization, some items don't play nicely with others. There is a 20% per item that it may react to other items. In order for items to work, they bond, in a sense, to their owner. This is just an in-game concept to eliminate powergaming loophole seekers to find ways to possess more items than the spirit of the house rule. An item that reacts to another item can have one of 3 results. 1. item just releases its magic back to the weave, rendering it non-magical. 2. Item explodes, doing 1d6/2000GP value of the item. 3. One item drains the magic from another, rendering that item non-magical but making itself more magical. Spellcasters have plenty of time to make Spellcraft checks to make sure 2 opposing items are never together too long.

+ There are no spontaneous healing potions. Healing spells still work normally. the rate at which potions heal is directly proportional to the healer who crafted the potion. I created 5 potency levels, that heal at rates from 1HP/8 rounds to 2HP/rd. My players wanted this because they don't like the idea of potion chugging tanks; it felt too video gamey to them.

+ To make the players the heroes and not their gear I made adjustments to feat and ability progression. In my game, players gain ability points every other level (we use 4d6 drop lowest, no rerolls) and feats every other level. I'm actually considering giving feats every level, but we've already started this campaign and I don't like to change things like that mid-stride.

+ To make magic a little more untamed, all magic has a base 5% failure, even unarmored. In addition, a roll of 00 means that the caster is casting in either a wild or dead magic zone (50/50).

+ Clerics are spontaneous now, but they also have a chance of prayer failure, the same as arcane casters. (hey, their gods are busy, ya know? ;) )

+ all shields are +1 from Core.

+ Arrows and bolts are both 19-20 X3 (I have two old school players who feel that ranged combat is a little gimped in 3.5, so this was my attempt to make them happy)

I think that about covers it. Like every other gaming group, this won't work for everyone else, but we like it and both of my groups are very happy with it. I've actually had some interest in our gaming style from some online DM's. In addition to all of this, we don't use dice in our games. I use DM Genie for game management and it has a built in auto-roll option. This really speeds up the game (REALLY speeds up the game), and adds a lot more suspense to virtually the whole game, including combat.

I'm very much a storytelling DM, so all of these things were added to either make my players happy, or allow me to be more descriptive with my game. I don't have to worry about perfect balance, because we don't have any powermunchkins. Well, I have 1, and he's really happy playing our system the way it is and doesn't try to abuse it. Of course, he's smaller than some of the other players, so....:P

All this talk of worrying about balance and everything else sometimes feels misguided to me. Some DMs worry too much about balancing the game for the game's sake and not balancing it for their player's sakes. That's why virtually every gaming group in the world is a little different from the next.

Make all the changes you think your group wants and have a ball with it. It's not like you can't change something back if they or you don't like it. It's just a game, and our goal as DMs is to make it as enjoyable as we can for our players and for ourselves. If you make every effort to insure that your players have a great time, they will spend their time playing in your game and not trying to break it! :D
#33

Nathreet

Mar 24, 2007 21:04:33
Idea is nice but needs balancing. I think the problem is complication. Otherwise you'll need weeks of playtesting to fix complications.

Here's a simpler solution: Give casters a caster level and spells per day of a character N levels lower, kinda like LA (without losing other stuff). Since casters usually don't multi-class, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. And why don't they multiclass or take LA races? It hurts, it hurts bad. And no matter how high of a level they reach it still hurts just as much.

Give monetary and mundane treasure at PC level, but give magic items at PC level - N. Increase the "caster level" by N and the "spell level" by N/2 when pricing magic items. For example, for N=1, a CLW potion goes from 50 x 1 x 1 = 50gp to 50 x 2 x 1.5 = 150gp. For other items it might be harder to determine the original "spell level", but you can simply assume/guess a "spell level" and increase the price accordingly. For example, if you assumed the 12,000gp for boots of speed comes from 5 x 3 x 800gp = 12,000gp, then the new price would be (at N=1): 6 x 3.5 x 800gp = 16,800gp.

As for CRs, simply look at how much magic is involved and adjust the CR on the fly. Never increase the CR by more than N.

I'd go with N=1, but that's up to you. There, now you have a low magic system that's easy to balance. After all, it seems to work fine for the mystic theurge and eldritch knight to simply put them X levels behind. Ditto for balancing physical power when monster races are simply put X levels behind (though some argue the LAs are intentionally set too high). So why not for magic too?
#34

scipio

Mar 26, 2007 18:24:35
You can adjust CRs all you want, but when I see "low magic campaign", I still see it has "player characters not allowed to do anything kewl." I think it's a cure worse than the disease. It's not as if dedicated warriors, given no magic item fighting bad guys where you don't need magic items, can't be powerful. A raging half-orc barbarian power attacking with a greatsword is going to deal punishment regardless of the magical nature of the greatsword.

Then why does he need a magic item, you may ask. He doesn't. However, why are you restricting magic items so harshly in the first place? What is it about magic that you are finding so horrid, to exaggerate, that you feel the need to do away with it altogether? Why does it bother you a party can heal itself up after a battle? Why does it bother you someone has +2 resistance bonus to his saving throws?

Certainly some spells are a big to do. Teleporting, save or die, polymorphing - they have their difficulties. I would think such spells could be fixed on their own, if they need "fixing", rather than getting rid of magic altogether. Changing polymorph into various polymorph into specific creatures, each at different levels, is a nice way to go. Being able to teleport only to places you've already physically been to works, thus no more scry and teleport. Solving these spell "problems" by making the players feel so special they found their first potion of cure light wounds at level 8 sounds more like DM dictatorship to me.

(From defending against fighters are too weak to defending against spellcasters are too powerful. :P )

It might have nothing to do with a mechanics viewpoint. It may be a matter of campaign flavor/needs. For instance the Ravenloft Campaign Setting is a gothic horror world. In keeping with gothic horror, where magic is something fantastic and to be feared, it is a low magic setting. Given how magic is viewed, it wouldn't make sense for magic to be common, with every fighting schmoe swinging around a +2 flaming, keen, longsword.
#35

redrory

Mar 26, 2007 19:48:58
For low-magic D20 I would suggest Mongoose's Conan*. I bought it not long ago after rediscovering the old Robert E. Howard stories. Which brings up the question of why do low-magic settings for D&D? Because if magic is rare it quickly becomes mysterious, wondrous and strange.

I have to say that in my reading of folks like Howard, Dunsany, Clark Ashton Smith and others that atmosphere of the unknown and wondrous is one of the main draws for me as a reader. As a DM that same atmosphere is one that I wish to create. It's not just some CR 5 beastie from pg. x of the MM but an unknown enemy to be feared and wondered at. (I mean not always the kobold guarding the chest in the 10x10 room is well just a kobold.) D&D in its default mode renders magic in a somewhat utilitarian flavour. I haven't played Eberron but I can't help but feel its saturated use of magic is simply ridiculous. Apologies to Eberron enthusiasts out there.

Many of my campaigns have been what you could call low-magic. I didn't create a whole ruleset to do this and I didn't ban any PC class choices. I just made NPC wizards, divine spell-casters and their ilk really rare. Additionally, magical treasure was not handed out with as much gusto. It was still present as the PCs found some magical gear but not hordes of it. Yes, it does skew the CRs of creatures by 1 or 2. A little care on the DMs part should keep from staging impossible encounters. The only note is my campaigns generally end at around 10th maybe 12th level. I think it would be rather difficult to play a low-magic setting at the higher levels.

*I have not had a chance to try it out but reading over it I am eager to try it once I finish up my current campaign.
#36

chuff80

Mar 26, 2007 21:14:19
FWIW, here's a linkto a thread that I posted a while ago. My campaign has been running on something similar to this for about 9 months now, and my players love it.

It's not exactly low magic in the sense that magic is extremely rare, just that it's not obvious to the naked eye. Casters have to be careful when they cast big flashy spells or else they get whacked.
#37

zombiegleemax

Mar 27, 2007 23:10:46
One big problem that should be addressed is that the wizard gets a double whack with spellbook costs. Maintaining a spell book is expensive and a 1/2 wealth hit really burns the wizard twice with the general low-magic world (no chance of finding a Blessed Book or buying one for 12K+) and with making him/her still pay the 100gp per page cost of adding spells. If you cut spell book costs in half then you will solve one of these major problems with the low-magic world.
#38

raiden_drake

Mar 28, 2007 12:53:03
What I have done to get a low level magic campaign was to restrict the magic user classes to:

Warlock (CA)
Marshal (MHB)
Dragon Shaman (PHB2)
Dragonfire Adept (DrM)

No druids, cleric, sorcerer, wizard, nor bard.
Rangers and Paladins are ok, without having to alter them. (Although I didn't use them either.)

I keep loot as usual, same thing for CR. The only thing I change was that every magic item they found, were items made long time ago by ancient Warlocks (which are the only ones in this setting that can make magic items), when ever they identify the magic items they get a full history of why and who made it. This was very effective to keep the atmosphere of wonder about magic items.

Most magic items they found had few uses left, and when ever they found, something permanent, like a magic weapons, armor, etc. the players really appreciated it.
#39

holy_beholder

Mar 28, 2007 16:23:47
Making spell level increase works too. I have run and played campaigns with low magic. And it often helps. Take annoying monsters that can cast spells as a high level sorcerer. Now they can have fun with their lower level spells. They are quite powerful for low level spells, because of caster level, but they are still low level spells. And monster's magic items can be reduced too. That balor's vorpal sword is now officially a -2 sword with vorpal on it. Easy enough. Or all spells could just take a lot of experience to cast, and wish would be along the lines off you lose all the experience gained over the past two levels, but don't go down a level. That way, spells have huge power, and are saved for when things really get bad.
#40

calronmoonflower

May 26, 2007 20:11:07
I've been think on this and would like to add two things. Adding the house rule Stephen “Shoe” Schubert, Developer
It’s You, Not Your Gear: Treasure is reduced 10-15% and permanent ability score boosting items are banned. Instead, characters get a stat increase at every even level (instead of every four levels) and a feat at every odd level.
would help keep character potent.

However, you shouldn't stack the treasure nerf as it might be a bit much.


Also with magic items don't allow item creation feats except for Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion. Instead to craft magic items you must either research a way to make them or hunt down directions in there construction. Direction to make magic items could also be handed out as treasure.

As for making magic item, instead of increasing the gold cost increase the xp cost to 1/5th the market price. Allowing Transferring XP Costs from the Player’s Handbook II web enhancement will prevent casters from taking all the damage from this.
#41

yeti1069

Jul 06, 2007 9:21:06
I've been trying to figure out a low magic setting for a while, and this certainly helps a bit. Most players are really, really resistant to the notion. In my game I didn't give out any real magic items until level 6, and a couple of players were grumbling.

I was also thinking, in a future game, of also using the spell points system, with the vitality variant from Unearth Arcana. It seems like a decent way to reduce magical power in a flavorful way without too dramatically hampering it. Have any of you any experience using that system?
#42

castlemike

Aug 08, 2007 18:33:33
Lots of nice points but just using it as is with the PHB and D20SRD for the base.

You should also get rid of the full caster classes Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer and Wizard which these rules mechanically empower in game.

I'd use Keith's Wizard's Dragon Shard article for ECS campaign demographics on 7/14/04 basically the highest level spellcaster would be 1D3 + 8 in a metropolis.

Magical item creation feat level requirements should be increased by 50 - 150% and or chained which weakens the feats for the campaign.

Scribe scroll is required to learn brew potion which is required to learn craft wondrous item which is required to learn craft wand or arms, armor and weapons.

With a limited known spell list and Adepts in campaign that really limits magic item creation.

Just use the variant spellcaster class. The only core class which is basically improved is the sorcerer.

Under the thread constraints the variant spellcaster is basically controlled till around levels 14/15+ because of their limited known spells and delayed spell casting progression of a sorcerer.

pretty strong spellcasting wise if generalized with the potential to be uber in a specialty or two.

Just a few thoughts.
#43

squidyak

Feb 15, 2008 21:11:48
I have some low magic rules written up and my restriction for spellcasting classes is to limit the maximum spellcaster level to 1/2 of their character level (rounded up). So, a 9th level character could have at most 5th level spellcasting abilities - 4th level fighter/5th level cleric for example.

If the character exceeds the limit by single classing a spellcasting class or picking up full caster level prestige classes, then they still are limited to 1/2 their level in spellcasting ability (thought I allow their caster level to go up for duration and other effects).

This way the characters can still pick up small doses of magic, but major magic effects such as flying and teleporting come much later as characters reach high levels.

This is an interesting idea, and goes a long way to seperate adventuring wizards (fighter/wizard, rogue/wizard, etc), from stay at home scholar-wizards (expert/wizard).