First there is the style that everyone can be bought and sold, magic items are just another form of currency. This can be fun as players get exactly the kind of treasure they want, to complement their abilities. I think most people who enjoy Diablo like this style of playing. It also encourages min\maxing, and the game becomes higher powered.
Second, there is the style that magic cannot be sold or bought, and magic items are a true rarity. Maybe you can obtain a few scrolls and or potions at some wizard's guild or church, but other than that there won't be much trading magic items. They're too expensive for the common folk, and the nobility, who actually can afford it, does not go adventuring themselves, so they don't need a +3 sword.
So what are the effects on the campaign world then?
With the first playing style, there will be quite some magic shops and merchants around, so there is quite some trading going on in magical items, which in turn implies that the demand is high and thus the group of people that can afford it is quite large. Magic will not be so special in these campaigns, and this will work it’s way into the campaign as well, with people using magic for more common use purposes. Most nobles will have a few everburning torches to light their rooms, and have their estates guarded with an alarm spell. Because of widespread use of Create Food and Water , people are able to settle where they otherwise could not survive, like a city high in the mountains in the eternal snow for example. Courts will speak justice using spells like Zone of Truth and maybe even Detect Thoughts . This will also lead to more restrictions on magic usage in common. A city that has it’s police track criminals with divination spells might deem divination-protection items, like Headbands of Non-detection, illegal. Also, the craft feats become a bit redundant, since everything the pc’s want can be bought or made for the pc’s. These are all things to keep in mind. The pc’s are part of the world, and the world is not part of the pc’s life. So any behaviour the pc’s adopt regarding this instances, can be expected to be the same behaviour other people do.
With the second playing style, magic shops and merchants are an oddity. Like I said before, the wizard’s guild might have some spellscrolls for sale for arcane casters, and the churches and temples might hold a few oddities for divine casters, but most of the magic must be earned through adventuring. Magic will be very special, and this playing style makes the craft item feats very usefull, if not a neccesity. Using the wealth by level guideline this way, makes your party somewhat underpowered for the CR system’s standards. Use of good tactics is a neccesity of survival. Players also tend to roleplay a lot more in this kind of settings, as they are simply not powerfull enough to just blast everything that stands in their way. In these kind of settings, magic users will be somewhat of an elite group. They could be feared and outlawed for it, or respected even more. (Magocracies fit well into this kind of playingstyle.) Either way, magic users will be an extraordinary bunch in these worlds, and it will put fighter type characters more to the forefront, both early game as late game, as most of the commonfolk can relate more to these characters than to the spellcasters with their ‘fancy tricks’.
Of course, most DM's will have a system that's somewhere in between. Personally i have small magic item shops in my campaign world, and they sell some scrolls up to 5th level spells, and items from the minor magic items list. I also do not allow my players to take anything non-WotC, and I introduce non-WotC material through the magic item shops in my world. (For example, scrolls with spells from third party material) This way the party can build up a solid base during the low levels, and later on they have enough means to gather more important treasure. This way, at least in my experience, the pc’s power levels compares to the CR system. Part of what they have will be hand picked or self-created, and some of it is just found and deemed usefull.
Of course, this does not mean there is no trading in more expensive magical items at all, it just goes down in a different way. No sane shopkeeper is going to place a +5 sword worth 50,000 Gp in a store where any thief can break in and get it. In fact, medium, greater and epic magic items will probably only be bought and sold by magic users, as they are the only ones with the means to identify powerfull magic items as such, and only they can tell their true value. For medium and greater magic items, the owner will probably have these stored someplace safe, and will first negotiate by talking, and only after he receives the money, or at least a downpayment, will he fetch the item and make the trade. That way he can’t be robbed. (Leomund’s Secret Chest is a good means of having your goods whenever wherever you need them) With epic level items, you can make it a whole roleplaying experience by first having dinner with your dealer/customer, both sides screening each other wether they are truly legit and credit worthy, and have the actual trade happen with lots of security from both sides, like some sort of maffia drugs transaction. The ‘It has been a pleasure doing business with you’ kind of trade.
As long as there are adventurers in your campaign world, there will always be some demand for magic items, so a small amount of trade will always occur. How much trade is available is up to to the DM of course, but one should always consider things from both a game-mechanic point of view as well as a in-world point of view. This adds lots of flavor to any campaign, and keeps your fantasy economy as realistic as possible.
How do you KNOW that is really a Wand Of [Insert whatever item you are buying] you are purchasing ? How does the Ye Olde Magic Store confirm magic items you try to sell to them ?
With Identify costing a beefy 100 gp and only identifying the simple aspects of the item, how can shops buying and selling magic items stay in business ?
Analyze Dwenomer costs, what ? 660 gp ? The cost of truly knowing what the magic item is can cut into the buying and selling margins.
Tom
This is because fighters, rogues, and others have much of their power concentrated in their equipment. Strip a 20th level fighter naked, and he'll struggle against a CR16 creature (the simplest example - he'd almost certainly lose, and lose hard, against a 16th level fighter who was "kitted out"). But strip a 20th level wizard naked, and he's still got Timestop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Wail of the Banshee and Shapechange available.
Of course, there is another primary benefit in a "low magic" world, which you do mention - item creation feats become far more useful, and again they are going to be primarily of use to the casters rather than their buddies. Few wizards take Craft Arms and Armour, for example; clerics might, but if they are the only way their fighter buddy is going to get his magic sword is if the cleric supplies it, then the cleric can charge far more than the normal price.
Removing "ye olde magic shops" from D&D3.x is a change that goes further than is immediately apparent.
("Why item creation in 3ed is broken", not a very positive title, but a well written post with a lot of good ideas to fix it, if you agree with the author)
Originally posted by Ertai Planeswalker
First there is the style that everyone can be bought and sold, magic items are just another form of currency. This can be fun as players get exactly the kind of treasure they want, to complement their abilities. I think most people who enjoy Diablo like this style of playing. It also encourages min\maxing, and the game becomes higher powered.
I never bought anything worth keeping in Diablo one or two. The only way to get decent items is to find them.
Second, there is the style that magic cannot be sold or bought, and magic items are a true rarity. Maybe you can obtain a few scrolls and or potions at some wizard's guild or church, but other than that there won't be much trading magic items. They're too expensive for the common folk, and the nobility, who actually can afford it, does not go adventuring themselves, so they don't need a +3 sword.
But thena whole adventurer trade economy springs up. At tenth level a +1 sword does me no good. Even my followers have better. Do I hoarrd it because it is a rare treasure? No, I find a buyer, who thanks to their rarity and value, buys it for a kings ransom.
If an item exists, it can be both bought and sold. Hence a shop for the item can exist in an area with an economy that can support it.
Even if the item is contraband a market will still exist.
The npc mages in my campaign will make whatever you want and sell it to you for market price. If I allowed them to my players would make stuff to sell to npcs. Hence giving an unlimited source of wealth. I can imagine npcs would do much the same.
However in my campaign the only on shelf items are potions scrolls, wands and maybe a few minor magic items they happened to get in trade. Everything else is made to order. And sometimes they have to wait in line for quite a while.
And besides without shops, what would you do with those dice fluke +1 throwing gnome hooked hammers?
Originally posted by Ertai Planeswalker
First there is the style that everyone can be bought and sold, magic items are just another form of currency. This can be fun as players get exactly the kind of treasure they want, to complement their abilities. I think most people who enjoy Diablo like this style of playing. It also encourages min\maxing, and the game becomes higher powered.
I never bought anything worth keeping in Diablo one or two. The only way to get decent items is to find them.
Second, there is the style that magic cannot be sold or bought, and magic items are a true rarity. Maybe you can obtain a few scrolls and or potions at some wizard's guild or church, but other than that there won't be much trading magic items. They're too expensive for the common folk, and the nobility, who actually can afford it, does not go adventuring themselves, so they don't need a +3 sword.
But then a whole adventurer trade economy springs up. At tenth level a +1 sword does me no good. Even my followers have better. Do I hoarrd it because it is a rare treasure? No, I find a buyer, who thanks to their rarity and value, buys it for a kings ransom.
If an item exists, it can be both bought and sold. Hence a shop for the item can exist in an area with an economy that can support it.
Even if the item is contraband a market will still exist.
The npc mages in my campaign will make whatever you want and sell it to you for market price. If I allowed them to my players would make stuff to sell to npcs. Hence giving an unlimited source of wealth. I can imagine npcs would do much the same.
However in my campaign the only on shelf items are potions scrolls, wands and maybe a few minor magic items they happened to get in trade. Everything else is made to order. And sometimes they have to wait in line for quite a while.
And besides without shops, what would you do with those dice fluke +1 throwing gnome hooked hammers?
Therefore, deciding the rarity of magical stuff in his campaign, the Dm must consider the effective production cost of magical items and adjust the rules.
If wizards can cast Wall of Iron, why are there mines?
Originally posted by Tom Peters
When considering magic items in the economy, consider this:
How do you KNOW that is really a Wand Of [Insert whatever item you are buying] you are purchasing ? How does the Ye Olde Magic Store confirm magic items you try to sell to them ?
With Identify costing a beefy 100 gp and only identifying the simple aspects of the item, how can shops buying and selling magic items stay in business ?
Analyze Dwenomer costs, what ? 660 gp ? The cost of truly knowing what the magic item is can cut into the buying and selling margins.
Tom
A simple enough way to answer this is that most magic items bought and sold this way will be profitable enough to offset even a 660 gp cost. Take a +1 sword. On the open market it costs what, 2000 gp right? Add in that the merchant probably bought it for anywhere from 800 to 1200 gp, and the merchant still make a profit of 100 to 500 gp per sword. A legit business would see this as making sure that they aren't peddling bad product, which, if they were, would probably, at the very least, cause them to go out of business via word of mouth, at most, legal troubles (depending on the laws of the land).
Then you would have those businesses that only sell items that are made by artificers in their employ and/or people that they hire for custom jobs.
These would be anything from your basic alchemcy shops to high-end custom magic, for anything from a +5 keen scimitar to a cloak of charisma for the noble family just moving into the area. These types of shops would have expenses from the mages they hire and the raw materials cost, rather then from having to cast id spells all day. Again, a legit business, and one that many people will go too when they have the time and money.
Then you have those alley peddlers. Sure, they SAY its a powerful artifact, but how can you really be sure? These guys make a high profit margin to be sure, as long as they don't get caught, since odds are they're peddling anything from illegal magic to pure junk.
What does this all mean you may ask?
Well.. in a magic rich economy, laws will be passed for their sale and distribution, just like any other assest.
Some types of magic items will be banned or restricted. Some will be commonly available.
Some will be expensive because of this, some, such as healing potions, can be picked up at any market stall in a good sized area.
Legit businesses will make sure that their product is good, so that they stay in business. Hence they will easily accept the lowered profits that they get for selling the one item, because it means that they will get repeat business from them, their friends, et al, and the regular profits, even at a 'measly' 100-500 gp per item, will make some very rich men.
Those that DO sell items without the proper id spells could face jail time or even death at the hands of the people they tried to sell it to.
Hell, the nation might even FORCE all people who sell certain magic items to have a liscence, a liscence which states that all buisnesses MUST have every item checked out by an approved court mage, to make sure that they aren't passing off +1 swords as +5 dancing vorpal swords.
All in all, in a magic rich economy, a person who sells magic would have to pay for verification of items.
Tho the price for those spells would probably be lowered.
Why?
Because there will be so many mages trying to make some quick cash by IDing items for merchants, that the demand for said mages will go down, and some will always try to undercut the other mages. A crafty merchant will know this and will use it to his advantage. He might even hire a mage at a reduced price by placing him on retainer!
You claimed that in worlds where magic shops are common, Craft feats are not worth a lot.
I strongly disagree. In those worlds, Craft feats still allow players to save a lot of cash, at the cost of a little bit of xp. Getting things for 1/2 price is a valuable trade off.
Also, you generally left out a major problem with removing all magic shops. It is blatantly stupid and ridiculous, for most campaigns.
Unless magic is very very new to the world, or the PC's never make it to a real city.
If people can make it they will sell it. In the US, they sell Air Craft Carriers, Battleships, Military air planes, you name. Yes, you can not get it in a small town. But they can be purchased. If you are not on an approved list, you will get them with their weapons removed, but you can still get them.
Cars are worth about a year's salary of a rich culture, such as america. They are worth about 10,000 times a salary of a poor subsitence farmer.
America has car stores. And it also has Used car stores.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to control magic and get some of the benefits of your "low" magic / "rare" magic system fine. Build in restraints, but only a total moron makes magic stores non-existant.
Good restraints are:
- Legal licenses required to buy/sell (with a twice the price illegal black market available)
- Waiting period for deliver (Buy from lists/pictures, delivery next week.)
- High taxes on transactions
- Stores only found in major metropolitan areas
- Buyer beware transactions considered normal (as in you better cast an Identify everytime you buy something).
- Heavy penalties/fines for being caught using/owning illegal magic items.
But no stores? Get real. In New York City there are places where you can buy a 50 ft. strech Hummer (one of the rarest and stupidest things I have ever heard of) with immediately delivery. You really think that you can't find a +5 sword in a Large city where magic has existed for thousands of years?
Originally posted by Tom Peters
When considering magic items in the economy, consider this:
How do you KNOW that is really a Wand Of [Insert whatever item you are buying] you are purchasing ? How does the Ye Olde Magic Store confirm magic items you try to sell to them ?
With Identify costing a beefy 100 gp and only identifying the simple aspects of the item, how can shops buying and selling magic items stay in business ?
Analyze Dwenomer costs, what ? 660 gp ? The cost of truly knowing what the magic item is can cut into the buying and selling margins.
Tom
While you have a point, Identify is a 1st level spell, and since most magic item shopkeepers will be wizards. (Because of the need to identify and because they have the knowledge for it) Therefore, once could reson minor magical items are sold by low-level wizards earning a buck, and anything that needs an Analyze Dweomer to figure out, will be sold by more powefull wizards who can cast it, or by a guild. Like i said in my post: More expensive items = better, higher level security measures = high enough level to cast Analyze Dweomer. Besides, with 3.5 the spells have changed. I have not been able to afford the new books yet, but i believe this would not even be an issue anymore.
Originally posted by GAZZA:
Something that you touch on, but do not follow up on properly - in the second style of play, wizards and clerics are far more powerful.
This is because fighters, rogues, and others have much of their power concentrated in their equipment. Strip a 20th level fighter naked, and he'll struggle against a CR16 creature (the simplest example - he'd almost certainly lose, and lose hard, against a 16th level fighter who was "kitted out"). But strip a 20th level wizard naked, and he's still got Timestop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Wail of the Banshee and Shapechange available.
Of course, there is another primary benefit in a "low magic" world, which you do mention - item creation feats become far more useful, and again they are going to be primarily of use to the casters rather than their buddies. Few wizards take Craft Arms and Armour, for example; clerics might, but if they are the only way their fighter buddy is going to get his magic sword is if the cleric supplies it, then the cleric can charge far more than the normal price.
While this is true, i can't think of one partymember 'profiting' from another partymember. In our group, the fighters pay for all the costs involved from their 'part' of the treasure, and often also pay some additional gc to the crafter to cover for the Xp loss (not neccesarily on a 5Gp for 1 Xp basis) and that's it. If the party starts profiting over each others back then something is wrong with the party. Personally, i dislike personal shares of treasure. A party would be best off imo, to throw everything in the party pot, and give every item to whoever could use it best. Everything that is not used is sold if possible and the Gp is a party pot. (A point to consider here is that spellcasting classes, especially the wizard, needs more gc to be effective than the non-spellcaster classes.) There's nothing wrong with the fighter wanting to buy the new hackmaster 2000 for 187.349,21 Gp, but he'll have to ask the party. If the party finds it a worthwhile investment, then they buy it as a group for the fighter to use.
As for the wizard, strip him naked yes, and he has a few more tricks up his sleeve that he can use but once and never preapre again. Sorcerers are best of with this, so the weakest class has some advantage :D However, without kidding, the magical item needs are a integral part of the game. It's a commonly accepted fact that at high levels, losing all your equipment is worse than death. That's an 'error' in the game rules, not the class system. Or the gp system for that matter.
Volk:
I like the idea of reagents as this poster proposes, same idea as in Neverwinter Nights. ([offtopic] Btw, have you guys played the expansion? It's cool, but helluvalot tougher! [/offtopic])
However, as Andy Collins said: 'It's still as much a science as it is an art.' Balanced item creation comes with experience. It has too much hooks and eyes to spell out completeley. True strike is the first of these lessons. Every now and then there is a nOOb asking: 'Permanent +20 to hit for 2000Gp is a bit overpowered isn't it?' No experienced player asks this. Unless they're trolling of course. In my personal experience, the duration of a spell is the biggest ad-hoc pricing guideline. Example:
(As stated earlier, i'm basing this on the 3.0 DMG)
The DMG states that a continuous unlimited use/duration item costs: spell level * caster level* 2000Gp. Imo, this is true for items where the spell itself has a duration of 1 hour per level or longer. Having them permanent does not make such a difference, it's more a luxury. With spells that last 10 minutes per level, the 'having it already when you need it' becomes more of a factor, but one such spell is often enough to last through a standard dungeon crawl, so i use spell level * caster level * 3000 Gp. If the duration is one minute per level, then the spell was meant to last throughout a single encounter where it is usefull and then both the duration and the 'ammo' thing becomes a important pricing factor. Spell level * caster level * 5000Gp is a balancing price in this case i guess. (This formula is not in line with stat boosters though.) If the duration of the spell is 1 round per level, then you start looking at a hefty price of spell level * caster level * 7500Gp, and even then you should look if the item is not overpowered regardless of price. (Although in our group we thought of 3.0 Haste as good, and not overpowered,we agreed that having permanent haste was unbalancing and thus we disallowed it) If the spell has a duration of less than 1 round per level, it is not balanced to have permanent in an item, period.
Of course all this is based on my personal experience, but it does prove my point i hope.
Thanks for the responses, i hope to get much more!
Originally posted by Tom Peters
When considering magic items in the economy, consider this:
How do you KNOW that is really a Wand Of [Insert whatever item you are buying] you are purchasing ? How does the Ye Olde Magic Store confirm magic items you try to sell to them ?
With Identify costing a beefy 100 gp and only identifying the simple aspects of the item, how can shops buying and selling magic items stay in business ?
Analyze Dwenomer costs, what ? 660 gp ? The cost of truly knowing what the magic item is can cut into the buying and selling margins.
Tom
While you have a point, Identify is a 1st level spell, and since most magic item shopkeepers will be wizards. (Because of the need to identify and because they have the knowledge for it) Therefore, once could reson minor magical items are sold by low-level wizards earning a buck, and anything that needs an Analyze Dweomer to figure out, will be sold by more powefull wizards who can cast it, or by a guild. Like i said in my post: More expensive items = better, higher level security measures = high enough level to cast Analyze Dweomer. Besides, with 3.5 the spells have changed. I have not been able to afford the new books yet, but i believe this would not even be an issue anymore.
Originally posted by GAZZA:
Something that you touch on, but do not follow up on properly - in the second style of play, wizards and clerics are far more powerful.
This is because fighters, rogues, and others have much of their power concentrated in their equipment. Strip a 20th level fighter naked, and he'll struggle against a CR16 creature (the simplest example - he'd almost certainly lose, and lose hard, against a 16th level fighter who was "kitted out"). But strip a 20th level wizard naked, and he's still got Timestop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Wail of the Banshee and Shapechange available.
Of course, there is another primary benefit in a "low magic" world, which you do mention - item creation feats become far more useful, and again they are going to be primarily of use to the casters rather than their buddies. Few wizards take Craft Arms and Armour, for example; clerics might, but if they are the only way their fighter buddy is going to get his magic sword is if the cleric supplies it, then the cleric can charge far more than the normal price.
While this is true, i can't think of one partymember 'profiting' from another partymember. In our group, the fighters pay for all the costs involved from their 'part' of the treasure, and often also pay some additional gc to the crafter to cover for the Xp loss (not neccesarily on a 5Gp for 1 Xp basis) and that's it. If the party starts profiting over each others back then something is wrong with the party. Personally, i dislike personal shares of treasure. A party would be best off imo, to throw everything in the party pot, and give every item to whoever could use it best. Everything that is not used is sold if possible and the Gp is a party pot. (A point to consider here is that spellcasting classes, especially the wizard, needs more gc to be effective than the non-spellcaster classes.) There's nothing wrong with the fighter wanting to buy the new hackmaster 2000 for 187.349,21 Gp, but he'll have to ask the party. If the party finds it a worthwhile investment, then they buy it as a group for the fighter to use.
As for the wizard, strip him naked yes, and he has a few more tricks up his sleeve that he can use but once and never preapre again. Sorcerers are best of with this, so the weakest class has some advantage :D However, without kidding, the magical item needs are a integral part of the game. It's a commonly accepted fact that at high levels, losing all your equipment is worse than death. That's an 'error' in the game rules, not the class system. Or the gp system for that matter.
Volk:
I like the idea of reagents as this poster proposes, same idea as in Neverwinter Nights. ([offtopic] Btw, have you guys played the expansion? It's cool, but helluvalot tougher! [/offtopic])
However, as Andy Collins said: 'It's still as much a science as it is an art.' Balanced item creation comes with experience. It has too much hooks and eyes to spell out completeley. True strike is the first of these lessons. Every now and then there is a nOOb asking: 'Permanent +20 to hit for 2000Gp is a bit overpowered isn't it?' No experienced player asks this. Unless they're trolling of course. In my personal experience, the duration of a spell is the biggest ad-hoc pricing guideline. Example:
The DMG states that a continuous item costs spell level*casterlevel*[X-amount]Gp. However, by personal experience, i price as follows:
Spell duration:...................Multiplier:
1 Hour per level or more........2000Gp
10 Minutes per level..............3000Gp
1 Minute per level..................5000Gp
1 Round per level..................7500Gp (Beware regardless)
Less than 1 round per level....You are not getting this permanent in an item, it's too unbalancing.
All this is based on experience, but it leads to less gruesomely equipped parties for sure!! Also, i personally find ability score modifiers too cheap, i peronally suggest doubling their prices.
Thanks for the replies so far, i hope to get many more!
Originally posted by tarkin
but only a total moron makes magic stores non-existant.
In a previous edition of AD&D (I forget if it was 1st edition or 2nd edition or both), the DMG recommended that DMs not allow players to buy or sell magic items, and also stated in the rules that "magic shops" should not exist in any campaign world. Of course, every published world broke that rule, but it was still a DMB rule, not something from "a total moron."
Originally posted by tarkin
Also, you generally left out a major problem with removing all magic shops. It is blatantly stupid and ridiculous, for most campaigns.
Unless magic is very very new to the world, or the PC's never make it to a real city.
If people can make it they will sell it.
If you want to control magic and get some of the benefits of your "low" magic / "rare" magic system fine. Build in restraints, but only a total moron makes magic stores non-existent.
Ah, but only a moron would open a magic shop in a world where magic is feared and hated by anyone who isn't a spellcaster. In this world, merely mentioning that you "saw a wizard, once" is likely to get you lynched. This hatred is not only present in the common folk, but also adventurers, nobles, and even some of the gods. This is a world where wizards have brought the world to the brink of total destruction time and time again throughout the ages. (This is also a world that borrows heavily from the Wheel of Time and Darksun, if you hadn't already guessed
)On the rare occasion when one can differentiate divine magic from wizardly magic, divine magic is seen as a blessing from your deity, and no artificial vessel is worthy to be host to such power. Even priests who are careless with their abilities are consumed by the act of spellcasting, therefore, when items of divine power are created, they are guarded carefully as holy relics. In this place, magical items are not tools, rather they are dangerous and mystical treasures, their histories either lost in obscurity or inseparably entangled with prophecy and legend, and one can never be certain of their exact properties, even if that one was the item's creator.
Given all that, it is still possible to purchase a magical item. But you had better have a lot of money to pay for it, and you better make sure nobody ever finds out about the transaction, else everyone involved- even the witness who reported it- is likely to be put to death immediately.
Only a moron would set up a magic shop here.
Originally posted by tarkin
If you want to control magic and get some of the benefits of your "low" magic / "rare" magic system fine. Build in restraints, but only a total moron makes magic stores non-existant.
That might be, but consider the income of a peasant in D&D, even a magic item ivolving 0-level spells, worth about 500Gp on average, would be totally unaffordable for him. Thus, unless magic is very common magic stores will be non-existant, because the market in one location will not be able to sustain a person dealing in such items. Sure, one item and he can live for a few months you say, but the precautions that need to be taken against theft cost quite some money too.
Now unless you have a post order company in your campaign world, a magic store is not going to work.
Originally posted by Tom Peters
When considering magic items in the economy, consider this:
How do you KNOW that is really a Wand Of [Insert whatever item you are buying] you are purchasing ? How does the Ye Olde Magic Store confirm magic items you try to sell to them ?
With Identify costing a beefy 100 gp and only identifying the simple aspects of the item, how can shops buying and selling magic items stay in business ?
Analyze Dwenomer costs, what ? 660 gp ? The cost of truly knowing what the magic item is can cut into the buying and selling margins.
Tom
This isue can be handled by a zone of truth item (for checking the sellers information). And the identification can be also done by a magic item. In my campaign I have a sort of box where you can put the magic item, say the command word, wait a few minutes and then a magic mouth tells you what you have there.
Also id like to point out that availability of surplus of magic items doesnt mean that there will be "shops".
I think that the idea of a party wandering into a Magic Quick-E-Mart and tooling up is incredibly cheesy.
However, a party buying an heirloom sword from a desperate impoverished noble is another matter....
Does anyone else agree that Paladins and most Clerics should be donating surplus magic to thier church/ order? ('Tis only a plusone sword, but will make a fine weapon for a young lad...)
But in Silmeyune, City of splendors, capitols of the Thredalken Empire, to which all roads lead... Well then unless the situation is dire, there will be a magic store, magic vendors, magic peddlers, and purveyors of every other rich good worth more than it's weight in gold from some faraway land that some visitors to the city think are mythical. Even in a world devoid of other hero/adventurers, nobles will buy blades of mild enchantment (+1, Keen) with which to equip their guards, armor and shields of powerful enchantment (+4, Moderate fortification) to outfit their personal bodyguards, speaking mirrors to preen their mistresses, and magical amulets to give them strength of arm, or will, are toughened skin to turn an assassin's blade, or any other of a myriad of items.
But much like fine clothing they are not likely to buy it off the rack. However, for every shop that lovingly crafts enchanted goods two will sell items found, or stolen, or sold by the desperate. Items likely in the back room of a shop that often move through with amazing alacrity matched only by the frequency they are opened, burnt, and robbed. . For each of those two will sell items of dubious quality alongside herbal infusions, and parchment, and for each of those a half dozen vendors will hawk mighty charms guaranteed to prevent the cackling fever, or keep away hungry dragons, or philters that cause love or grow hair.
In a setting where there is an adventurer caste, things become easier. In metropolitan centers that all adventurers eventually make there way to, magic auction house or consignment stores would exist. There, canny merchants move a powerful staff from the hands of a hapless fighter who accidentally found it in a chamber at the remains of a tower inhabited by orcs, to the hands of a mighty sorcerer whose gold moves back(oft with half gone as fee) to the purse of that fighter there to only last until it is wrenched or drank, or gambled away, or perhaps given right back to the same establishment to secure a mighty sword pried from the tomb of an ancient knight by a daring halfling "treasure hunter" (with half again staying in the establishment's coffers) in search of gloves said to make deft movements even faster, that happens to be in possession of a priest seeking gold to assist his order. Perhaps that same business might even take a commission to bring four like these together in the service of a minor lord requiring a brave band to...
You get the idea. Magic shops need not be bland shopping malls with the contents of all the items in the books laid at heir feet. However a shop for any item that can be bought or sold will exist. Mayhap not in every village (that is lunacy) there might even be a single emporium for all things magical that opens it doors to buyers for but a week every year, rest assured there will be a shop to sell that which can be bought.