An incendiary title if I ever did see one, which seems an appropriate for my first ‘article’ here, such as it is. I have played D&D for some time, and I have played in many games, and run several of my own. Over the years, I have watched D&D evolve and change and there is a definite trend. I do not pretend that no one else has noticed this, I would never presume so much, however, lately I have had the urge to put it down, and here is where I have decided to daintily lay the gauntlet, so to speak.
Magic items – and by extension, magic itself – has proceeded to devour my beloved D&D in small, painful bite-sized pieces, death by a thousand cuts, D&D still writhes in the pain of it, but still it goes on, bite by bite, piece by piece. With every new book released, more powerful items appear, more powerful magic to make more powerful spells to make more powerful items appear. The power creep has reached a fervor-pitch, items, magic in general, and even to some extend, PrCs have become more and more powerful over time.
There was a time, where 25 and 28 were more common, but not the ‘high-powered’ 30 point-buy is common, I almost never see stats rolled anymore, and point-buy is always 32, or even 34. This choice by DMs is a conscious one, and its there because, more and more, the enemies you will end up against are that much more powerful, the PrCs are greater, and generally, the tone of the game has become more powerful than it once was, this is on-par with Magic and associated power creeps.
I will not say that magic items have no place in our games, nor will I say that they are the worst thing to come out of new books by far, however, you can see their touch in everything you do, in every facet of the game you see the touch of more and more powerful magical items.
Character-classes are most affected by special-ability magical items, of course. Gone are the days of truly unique class abilities, as any such ability can be created with their right magical item. AC bonuses, Damage bonuses, Evasion, Stealth, Mobility, any ability you can get with a class, you can get with a magical item, and truly at a not remarkable price.
While class abilities to matter, who would not choose to augment, or otherwise artificially increase these abilities given the opportunity? Rings of Counterspelling, Evasion, Regeneration, all there to augment, or add class abilities to classes that to not naturally have them.
Class abilities can be completely replicated without any problem. Returning and Throwing Enchantments on a weapon – or gloves of taarnahm the vigilant, for example – completely replace throwing abilities from several classes. Many classes ‘special abilities’ become very common with just a small magical cost, so why bother?
This is especially common at higher levels, the amount of magical items, and the amount of gold increasing in leaps and bounds makes almost anything possible. Replicating an entire class via magical items is not impossible, if you have the will to do so.
Classes are not the only victim in this either. Most races have stat bonuses to them, however, for just 4k, you can replicate that, or boost what you have. Skill bonuses, special abilities (low-light or dark vision for example) are also easily mimicked. And again, at high levels, it is entirely possible to mimic the entire ability set of a race with simple magical items of reasonably low cost, and most people do it without even realizing that they are.
Characters, as a whole, are butchered wholesale by magical items. At even medium levels, what fighter is without maxed out magical armor? Plus magical items for even more AC? Magical items to increase stats, to increase attack and damage, to increase saves, to imitate feats. At higher levels, the magical item loadout on even a normal character can be incredible high, the amount of gold at those levels means that almost nothing is impossible, and this is only the 10-15 level range.
Base character abilities are almost never the same as how they end up. Stat-AC-Attack and Damage increasing abilities far extend the original framework of a character, perhaps it was designed with that in mind, and perhaps it is just my perspective, but over time I am sure that the magical items have crept as much as magic spells, and general power. Because of this, however, everything else has crept along with it. With more powerful spells, and more powerful items, you need more powerful enemies. And because you have more powerful enemies, you need more powerful abilities, spells and items.
Class abilities are their for a reason. A class gets Evasion because they are skilled, agile, trained. They have honed their minds and their bodies to quick reaction and swift movement. Rogues, Monks. Unarmoured and swift they dive from the obliterating flames of a fireball. Roll and dodge around the spinning blades of a deadly traps. And yet, a simple item can give the same benefits to anyone, from bulky fighter to wizened mage. (Note: This is not to ignore the fact that both of these have fairly low Reflex saves)
The vicious circle goes on.
The fault falls in many places, players taking the items – and the players, you know who they are, that insist on creating custom magical items with abilities or bonuses that are just plain annoying in their abilities – However, you cannot completely blame the players, the items are there, they want to be powerful – who doesn’t – and that is the best way to do it. They know others will take the same items, or better, and they don’t want to be left behind. They know that the enemies they fight will be powerful, and deadly, and above their level, and they want to make sure that they can not just survive, but demolish the enemies they will find.
They also want to optimize. Everyone does, no one picks an elf to make a berserker – as cool as the image is – or a Halfling. Once, making a Halfling barbarian, I was laughed at. The character was not phenomenally powerful, but she was incredibly fun. However, it is also rare to see. No one picks an Orc to make a wizard, or a Rogue. Orcs are fighters, and barbarians, because that’s what fits them, and their stats.
Then you add your items. Strength items for more damage, you load up with magical Armor items, because you won’t be wearing any, and you make yourself a monster. The Barbarians don’t wear amour, but that’s no reason to limit yourself to their natural bonuses when you can just jump on the +5 AC items and pump that AC up to the ceiling.
Why keep just the +2 dex from being an elf, when you can have +6? Characters gain – minimal – advancement in their stats, however, these are never the staple advancement. What character would be complete without those gloves of strength, the boots of dex, their cloak of charisma?
Who wouldn’t do that? Quickest way to best outcome, its natural human instinct.
Players want to be powerful. Players need to be powerful to fight monsters comprisable to their level, players love to delve through books, especially any knew book – “Look at this magical item we have in this new book, you must have this book, look how cool it is!” – to find new, powerful, cool items. They say ‘we want this magical item’, and ‘this item is cool, I want to buy it!’ and the DM, eager to please his players, eager to make the game fun, allows their items, and in turn, finds more dangerous, more deadly threats for them to face.
So the players want to be even more powerful, since they are going to be fighting such evil, powerful nether-beings.
Again, the vicious circle twists yet still.
And that’s assuming the players are already in a game, if they are creating characters right off the bat, well, that’s another story, then they have already poured though books, boards and pages upon pages of recommendations. They have created an Array. A grouping of magical items, which, in conjecture with their abilities and stats create an unholy synergy that will forever alter the dynamic of the character. Their power is tenfold, their wrath uncompromising, their power undeniable, nothing can stand in their way, they are gods unto themselves!
So, you think that magical items are a little excessive, you think that players should rely more on their stats, and their abilities than on the magical items they can create, or buy, or find in the wild alleyways of the world, festooned with the castoffs and glimmering golden uberness?
Take them away.
Perhaps that’s a little drastic, perhaps just limiting them is the key?
I cannot speak for everyone, however I have been in many games, and I have seen many, many more. When a game starts, it usually does not start at first level. Be it level five, or ten, or higher, a player is starting a character from scratch, with perhaps an idea of what they want. They start with 49,000, standard gold. That’s a lot of gold to spend on magical items. That’s a couple of AC items, a couple Stat points, a magical weapon or two.
So what is a DM to do? Well, for one, you can limit the custom magical items, someone has to make these things for you, so maybe there isn’t anyone to make it? Perhaps there is no one to sell that +4 ring of protection. Maybe you can’t get +3 enchantment on your weapons or armor. Maybe those +4 stat items just aren’t available?
In part, this is very much a Setting Issue, one setting may have many, many items, and one may have very few, but it is also a Balancing Issue. Encounters assume you have items, Encounters assume you have tricked yourself out with neon and spinning chromes.
Beyond restricting items – and, most importantly, the further releasing of yet more powerful magic, and magical items. Please, stop the power creep, characters now are already phenomenally more powerful than they ever were. Their enemies are getting more and more outrageous, and while this is not an entirely bad thing, it is a definite trend that needs to be at least slowed.
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All opinions expressed in this article are just that, opinions, brought to you to encourage insightful, thoughtful discussion, always happy to see both sides of an argument and encourages people to disagree to bring about actual discussion about topics.
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Another possibility is to warn the characters not to rely too much on magical items because there will be some areas in the game that will neutralize magic items permanently. In Monte Cook's Banewarrens campaign, for example, there's a large area that permanently deletes any active magical effects for each item on which you fail a save.
A DM can also restrict any purchased items to stuff in the books, and not allow custom designed things to be purchased "off the shelf." Something expensive should be subject to a d20 roll to see if it's even available. I think there's even a rule governing this but I can't recall where. Of course, the players should be aware of the restrictions before they create characters.
If an item is unavailable, or not in the books, a player must pay someone to create it and wait the required amount of time, which can be quite long. Of course, characters able to create their own items can always do so. After all, it makes sense (to me at least) for a Wizard to have a bunch of wondrous items on hand.
I remember in the Waterdeep setting, there were two places to buy armor. One was a chop-shop that dealt in used or mundane armor hauled up from the Undermountain. Another was a shop that dealt only in masterwork, magically enhanced armor -- and charged a 10% premium over the listed prices in the books. That 10% extra cost can limit overpowering somewhat. If a player complains, well, it makes sense for an exclusive shop to charge more than list price.
The DM can arrange for special items the characters want to be found in the game, but make the item have a downside in addition to the desired features. For example:
- A +4 armor with cool enhancements is fastened to the body with barbed hooks in the wearer's skin, making the wearer suffer -2 temporary con damage as long as it's worn, and 15 HP damage that can't be healed until the wearer removes the armor.
- A Belt of Giant Strength +6 might have a 10% chance of inducing nausea during combat, and it's cursed so it can't be removed. Detection spells would fail to detect the curse. As a consolation you could modify the nausea state to allow the player to vomit into adjacent squares that function as if grease had been cast on them. This might turn out interesting and fun.
- Various wearable items magically disguised to be something they're not; instead they're ordinary, mundane items cursed to stick permanently and irrevocably wherever they're worn and don't do anything except occupy space that another item could occupy.
-Alex
While it may be true that no one chooses a halfling barbarian (unless as a joke
), just because you don't purposefully shoot yourself in the foot doesn't mean you have to become a rabid min/maxing optimizer. I've had plenty of players content to focus more on roleplaying and only use magic items reasonably. That's not to say they would turn down magical help if given to them, but they wouldn't be the kind of person who searches through the books finding the perfect array of super-powerful items.It seems like the kind of person who could be trusted not to go item-crazy in a high- or even normal-magic game wouldn't be particularly bothered by your suggestion of banning them, but that the players you've described (who CAN'T be trusted, and DO go item-crazy) would hate it, and just not enjoy it.
they want to be powerful – who doesn’t
I think that describes what brought on the power creep in general. While there are those that argue that WotC does it for money, the point of the matter is that people want magic items because they are cool. I find the biggest problem when others other than me DM, that they don't give you enough treasure. Where the spell casters are radically more powerful than the non-casters due to the assumption that non-casters will have the magical items that they need.
While many people fight this movement, I have embraced it. I have created a setting in which magic and magic items is everywhere and more than just everyday - it's required. It's required for life because others would use it against you if you didn't use it. It kind of shows what can happen if you have too much of a good thing - it's not quite a good thing anymore. While I don't think it's so much what D&D was originally envisioned as, it's the kind of game I like to DM.
But the biggest problem I see with the power creep is not in the fact that Magic items ate your class or that magic items ate your race - but rather that magic items, in terms of balance, make a non-caster class - the class features are nothing when compared to a full 9 levels worth of spells.
The problem with that is not the fact that non-casters and casters are imbalanced, but rather that non-casters are hurt way more than pure casters when choosing a lower magic setting than the high magic setting that is precedent - which locks us all into the wealth by level table without some adjustments to the classes if you wish to have keep the same relative balance between classes.
- I wholeheartedly agree that magic items are factored into Challenge Ratings. This is not a bad thing. Magic items, especially ones that do things as basic as increase statistics or saves or attack bonus, have been there since the core Third Edition handbooks, and their presence in the game is thus a part of how the game is intended to be played. Why is this repulsive to you? How can something that's always been around be considered power creep?
- You claim that magic items can take the place of iconic abilities present in the core classes. This is untrue. There is no such thing as a "Ring of Greater Evasion", the expanded form of evasion that all rogues should have by the time the regular Ring of Evasion is within the bounds of other characters. Even with wands or other similar trinkets, non-spellcasters will never have the sheer variety and power behind their magical offenses that is available to primary spellcasters. Nor can any magic item provide an effective substitute for the feats that a master Fighter can perform. The iconic, unique abilities gifted to each class are unavailable through magic items by design, and as such retain their individual and appropriately distinct playstyles.
- You claim that magic items can simulate or supersede the traditional advantages and disadvantages of player races. This is also untrue, when we compare apples to apples. An elf will always be more graceful - but frailer - than a human who rolled the same statistics and possesses the same gear. Indeed, only an elf or a halfling could ever go beyond 30 Dexterity without divine (or Wishful) intervention. And as the human races to keep up with the elf's Dexterity, it will start costing him comparatively more and more, as the great equalizers in solid-state magic - parabolic pricing and maximum bonuses - begin to take over.
- I wholeheartedly agree that custom magic items, designed by the players, are often overpowered compared to equally-priced printed items. This is not a systematic flaw. The Dungeon Master's Guide encourages (some would say requires) each DM to think carefully before accepting the use of a player-made magic item, or indeed any non-core material. Thus it is the fault of the DM, not the system, when such a thing enters the game world. Similarly, DMs who choose to use 32-point buy compulsively are not doing it to keep up with power creep; they are doing it because they want to do it. I don't like it, but it's not indicative of a larger problem.
- Your stated solution to the problems that you believe exist in the magical item system of today's D&D is to make some items unavailable to the players.This is arbitrary and counterproductive. Remember that starting wealth for new characters is not a measure of actual gold-in-hand taken to some kind of shop just before play begins. Rather, it represents the amount and quality of gear that the designers think is balanced for that level, and in the game-world those items have been obtained by various means throughout the lives of the characters now entering play. In addition to this, your solution does not explain what items should be made unavailable, implying that you simply listen to the player's list and announce for the more powerful equipment, "No, you can't have that". This doesn't solve any problems, and would be taken by players to be a sign of an arbitrary, control-freak DM.
Magic items, as a concept, are balanced, but nothing is immune to power creep. Don't blame a victim of it.
That's not overpowered. That's balanced the way it's supposed to be balanced. Have you ever, actually, run a campaign where you hit 20th level with the proper magic equipments, take and take on an epic dragon or the tarrasque? I've done it many a time. And every single time it's been a challenge. And my group is what most would consider a group of power gamers.
Taking away a party's right to their magical equipment lowers their effectiveness in battle. It lowers survivability, and it limits their firepower. Ergo, the CR system gets screwed up, and you end up with a bunch of dead players. If you take away magic items, or restrict magic items, you have to be ready to tweak your encounters. And that's far more work than is necessary, in my humble opinion.
I say leave the system as is, and just work within the system. (Admittedly, the NPC equipment system is a little screwed up. I feel like none of my NPCs end up having the cool equipment that my PCs do. I've come up with some solutions - like limiting what most cookie-cutter NPCs have, using lots of oils of greater magic weapon for cronies, etc., so that the BBEG has the kick-ass big guns, but I still feel like there should be a better solution to that problem. But, then again, that's a pro-more-magic-items problem, which is contrary to this essay.)
One thing I will agree upon - magic items that grant class abilities. I see no reason to have a ring that grants evasion. That's just gratuitous. Also, I have banned all skill bonus granting items. (Though I feel that should have been a stronger point for your main essay.) I just don't feel right that a person with a few thousand gold pieces should equal my character in a skill simply because he had the money, whereas I earned my ranks the hard way, through levels that cost me blood, sweat and tears.
But, aside those two exceptions, I say magic items galore.
I had to disagree entirely on it being illogical or ruining the game. From a logic standpoint it's only reasonable that characters should "optimize" themselves (though I would hardly call this optimizing after having seen the CO boards). You say "Orcs are fighters, and barbarians, because that’s what fits them, and their stats." In response to this, I have to ask you, if you were actually fighting for your life in real life and your race was incredibly strong, though not particularly intelligent, would the logical thing to do be to learn to fight physically or mentally?
To give an example from a game I've been in, we were playing with flaws and I was making an archer. I decided on the farsighted flaw as I didn't plan on ever allowing anything close enough to me for it to matter (the party helped out with that one). Why, what blatant optimizations! What a ridiculous coincidence!
Now think about it without metagaming. If you were farsighted, would you choose to fight close up where you couldn't see? If you're not "optimizing" your character (again, I use the word lightly), then you're not doing a very good job role-playing, assuming that your character is a sane individual.
This certainly remains true for items as well. A wizard has tons of offensive spells, so he certainly isn't going to buy an item that allows him to use the power attack feat (once again, assuming sanity), but he's also somewhat vulnerable, so an item that grants evasion is a great, logical choice. Why would a weak wizard buy strength a strength enhancement when his spells fulfill the same role of causing damage and an intelligence-boosting item would be much more useful?
You write: "...you cannot completely blame the players, the items are there, they want to be powerful – who doesn’t". I agree entirely, who doesn't? The characters, assuming they are to be role-played as people, certainly would too, would they not? "They know that the enemies they fight will be powerful, and deadly, and above their level, and they want to make sure that they can not just survive, but demolish the enemies they will find." And it would be more realistic if they DIDN'T want to defeat their enemies?
Wizards get along fine with their massive spellcasting and damage output. Take away the fighter's swords and that class takes a nosedive. A wizard can survive without magical items, as they mostly use supplementing wondrous items, but a Fighter who fights a dragon without magical armor and weapons is dead. Or your players will take the hint and all take Vow of Poverty. No one uses any items!
I don't agree with your argument for D&D in general. For a highly specific one-off campaign world, sure, but not for D&D in general.
We recently came to Magepoint in the Age of Worms adventure series and the DM gave us just one magic item worth 40000gp but he had to approve it and it had to fit in with our character. With me being the poor guy, he simply gave me a dragon tattoo. He is handling it very well. I just think that you have to limit the amount of magic items available. That, or set a level you have to reach before you can buy a magic item.
There was a time, where 25 and 28 were more common, but not the ‘high-powered’ 30 point-buy is common, I almost never see stats rolled anymore, and point-buy is always 32, or even 34.
What does this have to do with magical items, anyway? I'm not big into point buy at all, myself - I prefer to roll for stats, or in games where semi-established characters are being used, to just pick stats that are appropriate to them. The latter does result in characters that tend to have between 30 and 36 points in a point buy system, on average - although there are characters that have been created for the campaign (but aren't in the "party") that have had up to 64 points in a point buy system.
Character-classes are most affected by special-ability magical items, of course. Gone are the days of truly unique class abilities, as any such ability can be created with their right magical item.
Truly worthwhile class abilities are hardly ever able to be duplicated by magical items. There are certainly some, but (for an example) magical items short of greater artifacts won't replicate spellcasting for any even vaguely possible price.
Most races have stat bonuses to them, however, for just 4k, you can replicate that, or boost what you have.
Well, yeah. Unless you've got a level adjustment or racial HD, your race (which gives only minor bonuses) tends to not matter all that much once you've got a bunch of levels under your belt - it's just a matter of you having +2 to Dexterity, something that was always a minor deal in D&D.
And heck, it's even better in this edition than it used to be. Your +2 to Strength from being a half-orc is nice because it stacks with items now. In 2e, your Gauntlets of Storm Giant Strength would just plain overwrite your strength, regardless of if you were a shrimp with 3 Strength or a tough half-orc with 19.
Characters, as a whole, are butchered wholesale by magical items. At even medium levels, what fighter is without maxed out magical armor? Plus magical items for even more AC? Magical items to increase stats, to increase attack and damage, to increase saves, to imitate feats.
Fighters just plain need all of those things to compete evenly or even close to evenly with spellcasters. I have my gripes with the system for magic items in 3e D&D, but none of them are based on shortchanging fighters, who need cool magical stuff in order to stay afloat past level 7 or so.
And yet, a simple item can give the same benefits to anyone, from bulky fighter to wizened mage. (Note: This is not to ignore the fact that both of these have fairly low Reflex saves)
Note that with the way the magic item system is structured now, you might reaaaally not want to shell out your hard-earned cash on an item that gives you Evasion unless your Reflex saves are high enough to make good use of it, since you need all the money you have to get items that actually help you with your schtick.
The fault falls in many places, players taking the items – and the players, you know who they are, that insist on creating custom magical items with abilities or bonuses that are just plain annoying in their abilities – However, you cannot completely blame the players, the items are there, they want to be powerful – who doesn’t – and that is the best way to do it.
If your problem is that your players want to make up crazy items that do crazy and annoying things, it really isn't a problem with the magic item system as printed in the books. Either the items are there, or they're custom.
The Barbarians don’t wear amour, but that’s no reason to limit yourself to their natural bonuses when you can just jump on the +5 AC items and pump that AC up to the ceiling.
Past a certain point (level 10 or so), you start running into a problem with things like this - even with +5 AC items, actual melee monsters still hit you on a 4. If the armor items I can buy in the store are just letting me stay in the game and not be hit left and right by enemy wizards, I don't see the problem.
They have created an Array. A grouping of magical items, which, in conjecture with their abilities and stats create an unholy synergy that will forever alter the dynamic of the character. Their power is tenfold, their wrath uncompromising, their power undeniable, nothing can stand in their way, they are gods unto themselves!
Hyperbole much? If you have the sorts of players that like to come to the table with broken item combinations for characters they roll up at levels higher than 1, you should get into the habit of restricting their item choices at character creation for abusing your trust - perhaps restricting them to magic items from the DMG only, or magic items from the DMG and a few books appropriate to their character background only.
Well, for one, you can limit the custom magical items, someone has to make these things for you, so maybe there isn’t anyone to make it? Perhaps there is no one to sell that +4 ring of protection. Maybe you can’t get +3 enchantment on your weapons or armor. Maybe those +4 stat items just aren’t available?
I disagree with these, mostly because changes like these very simply make martial classes lame dogs with fleas. +4 stat items not available? You're out of luck... unless you're a Cleric, in which case you get to give yourself +4 to your own stats at level 3. To put it simply, a lot of items, especially those that just give a pure statistical benefit, just give fighting classes the ability to stay on the board.
There are two things that I would like to add to this well thought and well written article:
There isn't only MIPC
While you hint to that, I would like to see it underlined: the Power Creep is generalized.
There is a Spells Power Creep (SPC, especially for divine ones since divine casters get it all automatically), a Feats Power Creep (FPC) and so on. While the MIPC is scary and must be addressed in a well run game (my opinion), you are solving only part of the problem if you don't touch the SPC and FPC too. Sadly, in my experience, the optimal way* to slow down these effects is to use Core Only.
Balancing
The OP barely touches this very, very important point. This game was built assuming that you are going to use a lot of magic items. The direct implication is that if you are going to tune down those, you will need to adjust (read: lower) the CR of the encounters. This looks very simple but, sadly, it is not so since every class has a different Magic Items Dependence Level (MIDL). As anyone here can guess, a VoP monk is much less dependent from items than a wizard, that is much less dependent from them than a fighter. As a matter of fact limiting magic items is going to put an heavy toll on non-spellcasters (especially at high levels), thus, to really balance the things out, you should somewhat "power up" the non spellcasters besides simply lowering the encounters' CR.
The only (partial) solutions that I found to this (BIG) problem are:
1) Weapons of Legacy
Give to the non-spellcasters some item (not necessarily a weapon) that will "power up" with levels.
This gives the DM a chance to even the things out versus the spellcasters. This method requires a DM with a very good wisdom score.
2)Magic Item control
Rewrite the Magic Items spell list to allow "higher level" items that benefit non-spellcasters than items that benefit spellcasters. For example, do not allow pearls of power, limit headbands of intellect to +2 but allow swords to arrive up to +5 bonus.
This method requires a cooperative group. Assuming that the money will be evenly split among the group members, the spellcasters will have a lot of money left after buying/creating magic items (since they are going to have a limited choice) and this can be another unbalancing factor.
3)Give up
Accept that in your world spellcasters are more powerful than non-spellcasters.
The consequence is that the majority of your PCs will be spellcasters (or they will choose non-spellcasters only for flavour). The "classic" group for you will probably be a Druid, a Cleric, a Wizard and a Sorcerer.
I am sure that most of you will come out with something better. Just food for thought.
* I am talking about the best tradeoff between gaming experience for players and DM, and the DM time that it takes to balance things out
My solution to this problem is to severely limit the types of items available, but to make these items commonplace. Because, in my mind, magic items serve one basic purpose only: to provide PCs with the essential bonuses they need to defeat monsters. To this end, I entirely revamped magic items in my game and the wealth-by-level chart. All this I did on the assumption that at every fourth level a warrior-type should just barely be able to afford the next weapon bonus (+1 at 4th, +2 at 8th...). Even at 20th level, if the fighter wants his sword to have the flaming quality, his other items will suffer. The only items which I allow that do not grant simple enhancement or inherent bonuses are tattoos that grant spell-like abilities 1/day (these can only be scribed on the hands).
This is the complete list of available items:
Scrolls and Potions
Enchanted Armor/Robe
Enchanted Shield/Bracer
Enchanted Weapon/Staff
Ring of Resistance
Inherent Bonuses to Ability Scores
Tattoos that grant Enhancement Bonuses to Ability Scores
Tattoo of Natural Armor
Tattoo of Protection
Tattoos of Eldritch Might (spell-like abilities)
All costs are the bonus squared (or the spell level squared), times 1000 gp. I carefully revamped the items and wealth-by-level to fix another problem I have with items: the fact that NPCs can't hold a candle to PCs because they can't afford as good items. In my item system, a DM can outfit NPCs using the same wealth that the PCs have without the PCs gaining all of that wealth upon the NPC's demise. The reason is that most of my revamped items are unlootable (in tattoo form).
Whew, that was a lot of explanation; hope it helps!
We all agree that Magic Items have been getting outlandish in their abilities for such low prices. I dungeon master quite a bit with this group, and even the players say that some things are so powerful that they don't want them because they think they'd unbalance a game.
I have pretty responsible players thankfully, but when they do want something we go by the rules of creation even when they are attempting to purchase said item. Like its impossible to find most magic items in a settlement smaller than a large town. Even then, I limit numbers. They've found ways to maximize what they've got and don't need to worry about wanting a Ring of Evasion that can cast a tenth level fireball five times a day.
Every Dungeon Master should bookmark page 139 of the 3.5 DMG. It contains the necessary tables for figuring out who and what is in a community for purchase, and from there its possible for a DM to figure out exactly what is needed and if it is possible for the player to acquire said Item.
Also, during character creation, a DM should be an integral part. You want a strong character, I agree, but you shouldn't go out of your way to hurt the campaign that the DM has spent so much time building. I appreciate it really when one player asks, "If my wizard used his starting gold to have access to a , would it fit your campaign world and style?" But I frown when I hear, "I'm gonna buy this, I’ve got the gold for it." My response as the DM then is "how did you come by it then?"
This game isn't about control, it’s about having an adventure. Its about doing things you could never do in real life. Sure, most magic Items today may be getting overpowered, but if that's the way they're going to be published and we choose to buy the books then it is not WotC problem, but our own. D&D is a game of interactions, both in and out of character. It should be more than possible to solve the problem of overpowered magic items with a little discussion.
A couple of months ago I just finished DMing Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil for my group and at the end of it, we all felt the same way you do. The group didn't complain when they were undertreasured for the very simple reason they didn't feel weak in comparison. A lot of the time when I hear people complain about how powerful characters are, it is mainly because the DM doesn't know how to work with his group to make exciting and fun encounters.
I myself took the vow of poverty to avoid being swept into all of the tricked out characters.
You took a feat, in a group of stupidly overpowered feats (that when used right can supplant magic items), as some kind of martyr? Gimme a break.
I second the sentiment that the OP and everyone else just needs to play how they wanna play. If someone is FORCING you to play D&D, and there are rules police imposing strict jail sentences for violations, then this is something to lament. Otherwise, meh, it is what it is.
Honestly, none of this should be a problem if the DM does his job, which is maintain an appropriate, defined power level for the game. High-magic, high-gold, high-level, high-point-buy games can be fun, but so can low-magic, low-gold, low-level, low-point-buy games. It all depends on the DM and how good he is at making the world feel real and solid and consistent so that players won't be clamoring to nibble away at the world's edges.
Just enforce the purchase difficulty for magic items and the wealth limit guidelines for PCs -- don't let them randomly take a break in the adventure to journey to the world's largest city and shop there for a year to get whatever they want -- and you'll be fine.
It's all about having fun, and if gamers aren't having fun unless they've got the latest magic item, then they should either find a different game to play or else find a DM who agrees with them that new magic items are cool.
If you feel that the standard 3.5 mode, which does emphasize an array of weaker magical items, then change it. In a normal game, the Fighter is likely to put a +1 on his armor, his shield, in a ring, and on an Amulet of NAC to get +4 to his AC. If you do not like this, you can fix it, and still keep the balance of the Fighter by removing the widespread availability of magic items and the creation thereof, but instead give the fighter, in treasure, a few vastly greater magic items. Normally a +4 Armor would be way out of reach of a level 6 fighter. All the other bonuses would not, however. Since you, as the DM, control the number of magic items the party recieves, you could put that suit of armor in a treasure for the party, and not break the mechanics.
In other words, the problem is not with the system, it is with how it is used. Yes, there will always be power creep with new splat books, even if the power level is balanced, having more choices is its own creep. That is why, however, every one of those books says, up at the very front, that the material is all optional and based upon your approval. If you don't like it, don't allow it. If it is too powerful, make it trade for something equally powerful the character already has access to.
The OP's feelings on this issue are not uncommon and are usually indicative of someone who has played for a long time (specifically in pre 3.0 versions). Back then, magic items were rare and coveted. As I demonstrated, you can still run a 3.5 game that way and be mechanically sound with less frequent, but more powerful, magical items.
On the other hand, many players have come to enjoy the new method, as it often reflects more closely with the literature we have come to love. (i.e. Frodo, going to Mordor with a magic ring, a magic sword, magic armor, eating magic food, wrapped in magic leaves, leading Golem with a magic rope, after riding a magic canoe, and lighting the way with a magic jar of light).
1) There is only one.
2) There is no other one like it.
3) This one is special.
1) This is for truly unique items, like greater artifacts. Most magic items NEVER fit into this category in D&D, though in storytelling, it is rather common. (Excalibur, The One Ring, etc) In these cases, often the story is about the item as much as the character.
2) There is no other one like it. There are host of these mentioned as "specific magical items" (usually weapons and armor). Many times these are not unique in the game, just not mechanically buildable with the standard attribute rules. These are seldom treasure, however, and do well as unique type items (to stand out from the otherwise magical gear). An intelligent item also usually fits into this category, since there is a VERY slim chance of two of those ever being the same in ability, much less personality.
3) Just because it is a +3 Flaming Longsword does not mean that it is just any old +3 Flaming Longsword. It is some flavor text from being the sword of Maurice the Pure, who in TD 5693 took it to face down Vladimir the Goat, a renowned Vampire Lord. After cutting through Vladimir's minions, Maurice fell to the tyrant, who was subsequently struck down by a companion. The sword was half buried, point down, in Maurice’s burial mound at the place where he died, as was the custom of the time. Years passed, and the ancient citadel decayed. One day, Gulack the Goblin was poking around the ruins looking for rats to eat (being expelled from his tribe). He finds the sword, and despite its size, steals it and practices with it. He returns to his tribe, now with the Wield Oversized Weapon Feat, and uses the sword to become the new chief. This is short lived, however, when in his hubris, he sends the tribe against a nearby elven community. The sword does not protect against arrows, and Gulak falls. His sword is recovered, and is used and sold around the elven community for a few hundred years. Now, in 6590, the PCs track down a thief, who has stolen the sword (and a host of other items) from a prominent elven merchant. The merchant, having no real personal use for the sword, gives it to the party as payment for their work.
All three of those can make for unique magical items in the game. There is no shortages of ways to make an item unique. You can also make one unique with little more than visual cues (think WoT here, the Heron Mark that gets Rand into so much trouble early on, followed by the bejeweled Heron Mark of the Treecutter which he strips down to the simple looking sword he still carries).
The real issue is that if EVERY item is unique, then none is. Also, just because a character builds (or has built) an item from scratch does not make it less unique. A bow that goes from a simple MW to a +4 Flaming Bow of Speed one enhancement at a time has grown with the character and is likely as much a part of the character's abilities in his mind as his Rapid Shot feat. I have often found that players often prefer to make their own items unique for themselves, rather than be a hodgepodge of looted junk. After all, the character may want a Belt of ST that is narrow and buckled with a lion's head buckle, rather than the thick studded weight-belt type in the hoard. You have to admire a character so dedicated to their image that they would sell one item just to buy the same item at +2 rather than +4 just for appearance.
That is unique playing, which leads to memorable and unique items. The lack of the special feeling about magic items is the result of lazy DMs who don't make the items unique and lazy players who only care about what it does and how it helps them acquire more.
[Over the years, I have watched D&D evolve and change and there is a definite trend. I do not pretend that no one else has noticed this, I would never presume so much, however, lately I have had the urge to put it down, and here is where I have decided to daintily lay the gauntlet, so to speak.
Magic items – and by extension, magic itself – has proceeded to devour my beloved D&D in small, painful bite-sized pieces, death by a thousand cuts, D&D still writhes in the pain of it, but still it goes on, bite by bite, piece by piece. With every new book released, more powerful items appear, more powerful magic to make more powerful spells to make more powerful items appear. The power creep has reached a fervor-pitch, items, magic in general, and even to some extend, PrCs have become more and more powerful over time.
I have been playing & DMing from the start, the Original 3 Vol set. That's over 30 years.
I still have one of my PCs who was started from the Original Three Volume Set. Dian Mac Diancecht, a 36th level cleric & demigod. He has scads of magic items, some extremely powerful. Most powerful PC I have ever had. And, he was part of a PARTY of similar super powerful PCs, and was by no means the most powerful. That campaign was by no means unique, either.
From 2nd Ed, I have a very powerful 21st level ArchMage with several powerful artifacts, and his cousin, a powerful cleric with three named artifacts, including the Ring of Gaxx. Both have a Ring of Elemental Command, and neither consider it by any means their most powerful item.
So- please don't tell me D&D is getting more powerful or that the magic items are getting more powerful. They aren't. Period.
There is one critical thing you can do to maintain balance- follow the wealth chart on page 135 of the DMG. Don't let your PCs fall below or over by more than a level. Next, other than obvious things like a headband of Wisdom (rather than a periapt)- don't allow custom items to be made- insist they use the items from the book. Lord knows there's enough items. If you want custom items, make sure they are in the loot.
Another better thing to do is rather than the overused rule of "start with 49,000 gps, no item costing more than half that" do just the opposite: "one item must be at least $36000." More fun that way. Or have the players each draw up their PC's with only $13K in items, but telling them you'll hand out an unique item for each (they get to pick the TYPE) with a value of around $36K. Thus, a Fighter builds his PC with plate +1 and such like, and asks for a "greatsword'- then you find or design a nice GS for around that value +.
When you hand out loot, be sure that a good amount of the loot is custom crafted items that will be useful by a member of the party, but sell for less. For example, found loot item of a Waraxe+3 Keen (useable by lawful dwarves only). You can rule that attempting to sell that item results in 50% of 1/2 of book value. However, as long as that item really is useful, then you have given out full value. This stops the PCs from selling EVERYTHING.
I like to quote the greatest and most loved D&D setting, the Forgotten Realms. It is far from low-magic, but if you look at the iconic characters in FR they are in the mid- to high-levels (some below lvl10) and they carry around surprisingly few magic items, even though they've been adventuring for years and have done notable and important things. Or they will have a cool unique item that is still not overpowered. Their ability scores are very mundane (bar the Chosen who gain inherent ability score increases). Why? Because a character is more than a sum of vorpal swords and +5 shields. Magic items should be used to reward players, not discourage them from roleplaying, planning and interaction. I'm going to give much more thought to fighting enemies when armed with a masterwork sword than when I face the same opposition clad in +3 mithril chainmail.
It seems to have taken an almost video-game like turn: can't beat the BBEG? Simple, head back to town, and go buy (or make) the item(s) you need to whup him. Don't forget to save game just before the fight...
I think you're kinda stuck unless you do a rather heavy tear-down of the system, though. I personally wouldn't go trying "low-magic" with straight-up D&D rules, but I rather like the ideas for an alternate item-less/near-item-less game presented in, say, d20 Iron Heroes.
I had a DM who threw us random items, to keep us balanced, then sent us into published adventures designed by writers who assumed that the characters playing in these adventures were fairly optimized, had appropriate magic items, and were on the forward edge of effectiveness. This meant that our opponents were optimized to match our mythical optimized party. THAT was a miserable set of games where we got constantly mauled.
In essence, you have an arms race between characters and module writers. If you play commercial modules, you must be able to do these things or you can't stay effective. The module designers assume that you can do these things, and they design the challenges to that level of optimization.
I think that both types of play are fun in D&D, but they are not equally compatible.
Character-classes are most affected by special-ability magical items, of course. Gone are the days of truly unique class abilities, as any such ability can be created with their right magical item. AC bonuses, Damage bonuses, Evasion, Stealth, Mobility, any ability you can get with a class, you can get with a magical item, and truly at a not remarkable price.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Why is there such a thing as a ring of evasion, Stupid...
Classes are not the only victim in this either. Most races have stat bonuses to them, however, for just 4k, you can replicate that, or boost what you have. Skill bonuses, special abilities (low-light or dark vision for example) are also easily mimicked. And again, at high levels, it is entirely possible to mimic the entire ability set of a race with simple magical items of reasonably low cost, and most people do it without even realizing that they are.
This part I disagree with. Yes, anyone can take a +2 dex item to simulate being an elf. But that elf can also take the same +2 item for the same price and still have a higher dex, a benefit of being an elf.
Characters, as a whole, are butchered wholesale by magical items. At even medium levels, what fighter is without maxed out magical armor? Plus magical items for even more AC? Magical items to increase stats, to increase attack and damage, to increase saves, to imitate feats. At higher levels, the magical item loadout on even a normal character can be incredible high, the amount of gold at those levels means that almost nothing is impossible, and this is only the 10-15 level range.
I agree, if you even try to throw a level 15 party at a CR 14 creature, without that +3 sword and that +2 armor and +3 cloak of resistance and that +2 amulet of natural armor, they will be dead in rounds. Without them the characters can't hit the monster/damage it, can't make the saves of the special abilities of the monster and will always get hit by the monster. I hate that D&D has degraded into "well OF COURSE the fighter will lose if he doesn't have standard equipment for his level, that's robbing him of his power if you take his items away" since when did a fighter have to rely on magic more than he did his own skill?
Then you add your items. Strength items for more damage, you load up with magical Armor items, because you won’t be wearing any, and you make yourself a monster. The Barbarians don’t wear amour, but that’s no reason to limit yourself to their natural bonuses when you can just jump on the +5 AC items and pump that AC up to the ceiling.
Well yes he could pump his ac up a little bit with those what... two +5 items? Natural armor and ring of protection? He’ll still (most likely) be hit even on a 2 by a monster even if that monster can cast spells AND sneak.
So, you think that magical items are a little excessive, you think that players should rely more on their stats, and their abilities than on the magical items they can create, or buy, or find in the wild alleyways of the world, festooned with the castoffs and glimmering golden uberness?
Take them away.
Perhaps that’s a little drastic, perhaps just limiting them is the key?
I cannot speak for everyone, however I have been in many games, and I have seen many, many more. When a game starts, it usually does not start at first level. Be it level five, or ten, or higher, a player is starting a character from scratch, with perhaps an idea of what they want. They start with 49,000, standard gold. That’s a lot of gold to spend on magical items. That’s a couple of AC items, a couple Stat points, a magical weapon or two.
So what is a DM to do? Well, for one, you can limit the custom magical items, someone has to make these things for you, so maybe there isn’t anyone to make it? Perhaps there is no one to sell that +4 ring of protection. Maybe you can’t get +3 enchantment on your weapons or armor. Maybe those +4 stat items just aren’t available?
I have seen this "limiting" done before. Unless you lower the cr by a lot when they face stuff they will die. Then, I've seen it go so far as the DM having the NPCs have magic items out the wazooo (still within their wealth limit somehow) and yet if the NPCs are fought and killed they don't have those magic items. I've also actually even seen players leave because they felt the DM was making his character less useful than the other ones.
Good Article man! I almost felt like no one else thought this was an issue.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Why is there such a thing as a ring of evasion, Stupid...
Perhaps because evasion is one of the LEAST unique class features available? It's not flavourful, and it's found in many, many classes and prestige classes.
This part I disagree with. Yes, anyone can take a +2 dex item to simulate being an elf. But that elf can also take the same +2 item for the same price and still have a higher dex, a benefit of being an elf.
Well put.
I agree, if you even try to throw a level 15 party at a CR 14 creature, without that +3 sword and that +2 armor and +3 cloak of resistance and that +2 amulet of natural armor, they will be dead in rounds. Without them the characters can't hit the monster/damage it, can't make the saves of the special abilities of the monster and will always get hit by the monster. I hate that D&D has degraded into "well OF COURSE the fighter will lose if he doesn't have standard equipment for his level, that's robbing him of his power if you take his items away" since when did a fighter have to rely on magic more than he did his own skill?
This is exactly the same as the race logic. Yes, in D&D a fighter needs magical items to survive (in most campaigns). However, they're not relying more on magic than on their own skill. A twentieth level fighter has a BAB of 20, does the item grant a better to-hit than TWENTY? Of course not, the need to magical items to bump their skill up a bit to get to be effective, not to completely replace their skill.
I have run high magic campaigns and my players and I voted to play only low magic campaigns from now till 5th Edition.
For high level campaigns, enemy wiz/sorcerers, even scroll users would naturally want to use Mordenkainen's disjunction if they want to defeat the characters. The only reason they wouldn't is if they wanted to retrieve their magic items more, and that is a fault of heroes more than villains. I hear a lot of complaining about MJD here as metagaming, but really it makes sense from the enemy's perspective.
For more mundane enemies, stealing and sundering are likely tactics to use against overpowered parties. These require little explanation.
You can complain all you want about items that give statistical bonuses. If I were designing a system, it wouldn't have any items that just added to hit and damage, or AC, or saving throws. Those items are rarely memorable, and without them, it would actually be easier to balance. But items that *do* things? Those are just cool!
Seriously, I'm having trouble figuring out why you're opposed to magic items in general. For me, anyway, a game with exploding arrows, vicious longspear, winged boots and bags of tricks is just plain MORE FUN than a game without. Skillful exotic weapons allow characters to use cool combat styles otherwise unavailable to them. Magic items like those and wondrous figurines, and others, do several very good things for the group.
A: Make looting fun. I had a DM who always created lots of custom items, and it was always really exciting to see what the session's treasure would be.
B: Create cool images. Seriously, what's epic fantasy without flaming swords, winged cloaks, magic wands, and all the rest?
C: Create tactical complexity. Lots of interesting moments in play arise through skillful application of magic items--or their unexpected interactions.
D: Temporary magic items make the game more forgiving, letting players survive their occasional miscalculations.
E: Make characters memorable. I've played with a lot of clerics, but I'll remember Sister Margaret as the cleric with the wings of flying. It was a cool item that gave a cool ability, and many of her most memorable moments--the fights we talk about now, years later--were fought from the sky thanks to her cloak.
I understand frustration with the system's implementation, but magic items are, for many of us, a large part of what makes D&D fun!
Something as simple as the very lack of limitations on ability scores contributes to the power ramp. One of the house rules I like to implement is that ability bonuses can only modify a given d20 roll or difficulty by up to +5.
I've pondered similar limitations for magical bonuses - perhaps limiting all bonuses from magic items to any d20 roll or DC to +5 or +10.
I cannot speak for everyone, however I have been in many games, and I have seen many, many more. When a game starts, it usually does not start at first level. Be it level five, or ten, or higher, a player is starting a character from scratch, with perhaps an idea of what they want. They start with 49,000, standard gold. That’s a lot of gold to spend on magical items. That’s a couple of AC items, a couple Stat points, a magical weapon or two.
The thing to keep in mind there is that they won't have acquired the bulk of that wealth in one or two items. The best, and least arbitrary, method of placing a limitation on magic items during character creation, I find, is to limit how much they can spend per item. Offhand I'd say that no more than 10-20% of the total wealth could be spent on any one magic item during character creation.
First off, my experience doesn't support the idea of magic items "eating" the foundations of the game: class and race. As other posters have noted, anything that a dex-based human build can do with items is achievable and surpassable by an elf or halfling with their natural bonus. The OP asserts that if that human buys Gloves of Dexterity +2, he's devoured what makes his elven counterpart special. Not so. Unless something deranged is going on with the wealth distribution in a game, the elf can buy the same Gloves and maintain his advantage, or take his 4000 gp and purchase a different item, magical or otherwise, that will improve his character. The bottom line is that an dex-focused elf will always be better at what he does than a dex-focused human, from level 1 to infinity.
The notion of using magic items to replace entire classes is only marginally correct. Rings of Evasion, Monk's Belts, and other items do allow characters to emulate other classes, but only to a point. Use items for twenty sourcebooks if you like, but a fighter will never cast spells like a wizard (and while the inevitable counterpoint that min/maxed gish characters can replace a fighters' role will probably be brought up, this is due in greater part to spells (many of which are found in the Player's Handbook!) than magical equipment). That wizard will never cast spells spontaneously like a sorcerer can, and so on.
Moving past these specific objections, I think that the main problems with magic items arise when:
- Acquiring magic items (and more to the point, power via magic items) becomes the players' focus
- Magic items are not distributed in a consistent fashion
- Magic items define a character
In the first case, this is something to be worked out between the DM and players. From the OP's perspective, magic items are ruining the joy of creating and playing realistic characters. Based on his description, though, it's not the fault of the game's use of magic items, but the playstyle of his group: they're powergamers! They like picking the best items for their characters, just as they like putting together a wicked gish build or a finding a way to squeeze one more point of AC out of their character. Enjoying the crunch of D&D is not a crime, but it might be a major incompatibility between DM and his group (or between different players), and it's an issue to be resolved (and hopefully compromised) between them.
Consistency is the next big issue, and I use consistency to refer to a couple of different factors. The first is consistency in wealth between characters. To prevent situations where the party's elven rogue is more at home toe-to-toe with giants and dragons than the half-orc barbarian, you need to ensure that they have equal access to money and magic items--and more than raw value needs to be considered. Each character should receive a roughly equal proportion of raw coin, semi-useful items, and high-powered magic the players get excited over. If the low-level rogue and barbarian both pick up +3 shortswords, the former will receive a nice boost in combat ability, while the latter will have to stow it away until he can sell or trade it for a greataxe or the like, and by the books, that weapon will only be half as valuable as sword he sold.
The second form of important consistency is consistency in item distribution in your world. Whether you use a high, normal, or low-magic setting, magic items should be found and traded logically. This means that when your fighter wants (and, for his level, should have) a +2 longsword, he shouldn't walk down the street and buy one from the weaponsmith on the street corner unless he's in an epic metropolis of unworldly proportions. At the same time, don't be a jerk and make him perform arduous quests for it and, after much blood, sweat, and tears, find the weapon at 15th level. Characters should have to find appropriate sources for their high-powered items--generally, high-level people. But it's important to remember that, for the sake of game balance, the PCs need access to equipment equal to their levels. Simply stating that no +4 ability bonus items exist, or that the ones that do have price tags with six figures, is as unbalanced for high level PCs as giving the same items to first-level characters would be.
Keeping your game consistent in this fashion means that when a player earns a magical item, he'll have done it in a way that makes sense within the game, and the DM will have had a chance to make sure the item won't bring the character's power level too high.
Finally, the problem of players looking at their characters and seeing the page of stuff they're wearing and toting in a bag of holding, instead of a heroic paladin, is the most serious. To deal with this, the DM (and players) should examine the characters' archetypes and personalities to determine how many and what kinds of magic items fit what he or she would use, and what will begin overriding who the character is.
Some characters should be defined by their items. An artificer is the most obvious example: like a fantasy Batman, he relies on a plethora of magic equipment (in place of technology) more than natural combat ability to kick ass. While more item-independent, rogues and wizards are the type of characters who would logically have the right item for nearly any job. A mage with a score of well-chosen wands has not been 'eaten' by items; it's part of how he does his job and his personality to be prepared for anything, and bring lots of trinkets along for backup.
On the other hand, some characters shouldn't come with a piece of gear for every slot on their body. A druid used to traveling light and living simply or a barbarian who lives and dies by his axe need mechanical bonuses provided by items to keep up with their compatriots, but what respectable barbarian goes to battle covered in magic jewelry? The solution to characters who should shine on their own, not shine from all the glowing items they're packing, is to let them put their gold towards non-item enhancements: paying their share of a dragon's horde in offering in order to gain a blessing (with hefty bonuses to attacks, or AC, or whatever) from their tribe's elders or a holy man on a mountain. Alternatively, consolidate their magic into a few items as oakspar suggested. Let the paladin who looks down upon gaudy displays of wealth get deflection, natural armor, and luck bonuses on his full plate instead of sporting a ring, necklace, and ioun stone to get the same buffs.
Finally, as another poster noted, make items more than just a rod of lordly might or ring of protection. Give them history. Make the fighter's prized holy sword the blade that struck down three incarnations of Phivos the Necromancer. Let the party's ranger enhance his bow again and again, so the same weapon he used to slay the leader of some gnome gangsters at 1st level goes on to send the killing shot into assassins after the King, fells the mind flayer ready to eat the brains of the archer's best friends, and eventually (as a +4 distance icy burst longbow) brings down the red dragon archvillian at the finale of the game.
... this has gotten long.
To summarize: magic items are far from the worst offenders in unbalancing the game and causing power creep. Their presence can cause issues with suspension of disbelief, particularly with powergaming players, but a fair and logical approach to their use can allow them to fulfill their intended role in the game without harming the campaign's integrity.
I like to quote the greatest and most loved D&D setting, the Forgotten Realms. It is far from low-magic, but if you look at the iconic characters in FR they are in the mid- to high-levels (some below lvl10) and they carry around surprisingly few magic items, even though they've been adventuring for years and have done notable and important things. Or they will have a cool unique item that is still not overpowered. Their ability scores are very mundane (bar the Chosen who gain inherent ability score increases). Why? Because a character is more than a sum of vorpal swords and +5 shields. Magic items should be used to reward players, not discourage them from roleplaying, planning and interaction. I'm going to give much more thought to fighting enemies when armed with a masterwork sword than when I face the same opposition clad in +3 mithril chainmail.
I could be wrong but doesn’t FR use a higher point buy then standard D&D?
The character wealth-by-level table is also a crippling blow to any reasonable campaign. They promote what some call "powergaming."
If by "Powergaming" you mean not getting killed by things the book says they should be able to fight, then yeah it promotes it. Because like it or not, 3.5 was balanced with 25 point buy with that standard amount of wealth for each level. So the most standard, reasonable campaign that the system was designed for was intended for that wealth-by-level table.
Good Article man! I almost felt like no one else thought this was an issue.
Oh, lots of people think this is an issue. But due to comments like this:
thank you for a cogent defense of the system. Anyone who agrees with the OP should go play a different system.
most of us have chosen to stop trying to fight the power. You can only argue for so long that characters should be defined by their abilities, not their gear, before you get tired of having the same arguments over and over and over. D&D has fully implemented the "Christmas Tree PC" in the current edition of the game. A high-level D&D character doesn't just have a magic sword and an elven cloak. He has a magical, flaming, keen sword, magical armor of displacement, a belt of strength, boots of speed, a ring of fire-resistance, a bag of holding, several potions, a magical hat, gloves that do something and a partridge in a pear tree.
It's NUTS! Strip him of his gear and he's lunch for the creatures he's supposed to face. It's like:
Villager: "Oh Conan, thank goodness you're here! We're being threatened by a fire wyrm!!"
Conan (D&D version): "Sorry, my friends and I are retired."
Villager: "Okay, fine...loan your gear to US and WE'LL do it."
Okay, that’s slightly ridiculous...but only slightly.
D&D needs to redesign the classes, all the classes, so that they're fairly balanced without magical items. Then it needs to provide guidelines for magical items and what each one means to the character's effective power level. To a high-level character, a +1 sword is insignificant, but at 1st level...
Start with the basics, then say: A 5th level character with a +1 magic sword, +1 armor and a +1 shield is effectively as powerful as a 6th-level character with no "stuff." Similarly, an item that increases the number of spells a wizard can cast (like, oh, a wand of magic missiles or a ring of wizardry) also effectively raises his level. Guidelines like that would be, in my opinion, far MORE useful, and more adaptable, than the existing "wealth by level" table.
Thank you for writing this! I couldn't have said it better, and I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one who's offended when characters take a back seat to the junk they carry. Two years ago I became frustrated by precisely the same issue. It seem that in order to survive, your character had to become a cookie-cutter version of every other character. I was also tired of all the blind player materialism and gear-addiction fostered by high-magic games. It becomes more and more about the gear, less and less about the character. Characters without gear are so weak they become totally dependent on their stuff. I don't escape into a fantasy world so that I can spend more time worrying about things and money. And when Disjunction is more demoralizing than death, something's wrong!
So I looked around for a solution and found the Forsaker prestige class. I immediately fell in love with the concept: here was a character without magic items; who doesn't even notice the Antimagic Field; who has all his stuff taken away or destroyed and doesn't even blink; who doesn't need to participate in all the tedious nitpicking of treasure division.
But most importantly, what appealed to me about the Forsaker concept was the idea of a character who is defined entirely by who he is and what he does. It was an opportunity to really explore the nuances of a race, and to really role-play and kick butt when the going gets rough. I immediately began working with my DM to fix what was, as printed, a very broken class. Two years later, after several revisions of the class, my L19 Fixed Forsaker is by far the most compelling character I've ever run.
For those who want to get out of the D&D rat race, here's an opportunity:
Fixed Forsaker Prestige Class
Forsakers do not necessarily hate magic. They simply choose to abstain from using it or benefiting from it. This may be for philosophical reasons, fear, or ignorance. Regardless of the reason, they have also learned that by forsaking magic, they can become as powerful and resilient as their magic-using peers.
Forsakers have no trouble adventuring with parties of magic-using characters. At the same time, forsakers are highly self-sufficient and well-suited to the occasional solo adventure. It is often said that forsakers are harbingers of a time to come, when magic will have less influence in the world. At times, forsakers seem to embody the inevitable and unstoppable force of nature, leaving behind a wake of devastation.
Hit Die: d12
Requirements:To qualify to become a Forsaker, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Feats: Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack.
Special: The character must sell, give away, or destroy all magic items (including magic weapons, armor, and potions) and renounce the use of any spellcasting and spell-like abilities previously used.
Class Skills
The forsaker’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Any) (Int), Handle Animal (Wis), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
TABLE for Forsaker
Lvl_BAB_F_ R_W___Special____
1st +1 +0 +0 +2 Forsake Magic, Magic Destruction Points, Ability Bonus+1, Spell Resistance 10+CL, Damage Reduction 1/-, Fast Healing 1, Fast Movement +5
2nd +2 +0 +0 +3 Ability Bonus +1, Rage 1/day
3rd +3 +1 +1 +3 Ability Bonus +1, DR 2/-, F.Move +10, Tough Defense, Punch DR
4th +4 +1 +1 +4 Ability Bonus +1
5th +5 +1 +1 +4 Ability Bonus +1, DR 3/-, Fast Healing 2
6th +6 +2 +2 +5 Ability Bonus +1, Fast Movement +15, Rage 2/day
7th +7 +2 +2 +5 Ability Bonus +1, DR 4/-
8th +8 +2 +2 +6 Ability Bonus +1
9th +9 +3 +3 +6 Ability Bonus +1, DR 5/-, Fast Healing 3, Fast Movement +20
10th +10 +3 +3 +7 Ability Bonus +1, Rage 3/day
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Forsakers gain no armor or weapon proficiencies.
Forsake Magic: In addition to avoiding the use of spellcasting, spell-like abilities, and magic items, the forsaker must also refuse any benefits from others’ magic—including magical healing. Thus, he must attempt a saving throw against any spell that allows one. For most beneficial spells the, such as displacement or neutralize poison, a successful save negates the spell’s effects; for a cure spell, it halves the benefit. Any forsaker who unwittingly uses a magic item or casts a spell (while under the influence of a charm person or dominate spell, for instance) loses all the special abilities of the prestige class for one week. A forsaker may step through a magic portal without penalty, and a forsaker may be raised from the dead without penalty. A forsaker may use alchemical items and purely mechanical/technological devices without penalty.
Magic Destruction Points: The forsaker gains access to his spell resistance through the destruction of magic-using creatures and, if necessary, magic items. For each point of spell resistance, 100 points are deducted from his magic destruction point total each day (SR x 100 per day). Points are accrued according to the following rules:
• For every magic-using creature he destroys or helps to destroy, he gains a number of Magic Destruction Points equal to half his share of its experience point value.
• If he has 0 magic destruction points, the forsaker can destroy a magic item to gains magic destruction points equal to half the gold piece market value of the destroyed item. Destroying a magic item before the magic destruction point reaches 0 will add no points to the total. Destroying a minor artifact bestows continuous spell resistance for one week. Destroying a major artifact bestows continuous spell resistance for one month.
There is no limit to the amount of magic destruction points a forsaker may store, but 100 M.D.P. per point of spell resistance (SR x 100) are automatically deducted from the total each 24 hours. The forsaker may never choose to forego spell resistance, and the number of magic destruction points may never go below zero. If the forsaker dies, his M.D.P. total is reduced to zero, and his body loses its spell resistance.
Spell Resistance (Ex): At 1st level, the forsaker gains spell resistance 10 + character level. This value increases by +1 for every level gained thereafter in any class, forsaker or otherwise, as long as he forsakes magic (see below). This ability remains in effect as long as the forsaker has a positive magic destruction point total. This ability does not stack with spell resistance from any another class, race, template, or specal ability.
Ability Bonus (Ex): Beginning at 1st level, the character gains a +1 inherent bonus to any desired ability score at each forsaker level. Inherent bonuses to a single ability still may not exceed +5.
Damage Reduction (Ex): Beginning at 1st level, the forsaker gains damage reduction 1/-. This damage resistance increases by 1/- for every two forsaker level he gains thereafter. This ability does not stack with any other damage reduction he already has.
Fast Healing (Ex): Forsakers regain hit points at an exceptionally fast rate. At 1st level, the character regains 1 hit point per round. The number of hit points regained per round increases by +1 for every four forsaker levels thereafter. This ability works like the fast healing described in the introduction of the Monster Manual.
Fast Movement (Ex): A forsaker has a speed faster than the norm for his race. He adds +5 feet to his speed at 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th level when wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor (and not carrying a heavy load). This ability stacks with any other fast movement from other classes.
Rage (Ex): At 2nd level, a forsaker gains the ability to rage as a barbarian once per day. Every four levels thereafter, the number of times a forsaker may rage per day increases by +1. The number of times this ability can be used per day is cumulative with any rage ability he already has.
Tough Defense (Ex): Beginning 3rd level, a forsaker gains a natural armor bonus equal to his Constitution bonus (if any).
Punch Damage Reduction (Ex): At 3rd level, forsaker can fight as though he and his weapon were one but only while raging. During a rage, a forsaker has a chance to bypass damage reduction with any ranged or melee weapon. Each hit requires a successful DR punch check: d20 + current damage bonus for the weapon (including Strength, non-magical enhancement, and Power Attack). The DC for this check is: 15 + the number of damage points the foe’s damage reduction ignores (the number before the slash). Extra damage from Power Attack applies to the check. Damage type after the slash (such as /magic, /—, /epic, etc.) is only a factor if it is /bludgeoning, /piercing, or /slashing. In these cases, a weapon of the appropriate type must be used in order to succeed. For example, to punch DR 10/cold iron and good with any type of weapon, the punch check DC is 25 (15+10). To punch DR 5/slashing with a slashing weapon, the DC is 20 (15+5); a bludgeoning weapon would automatically fail any punch check against DR 5/slashing. A successful DC 12 wisdom check allows the raging character to recognize that a failure to punch DR was due to the wrong weapon type.
Epic Forsaker
All class abilities continue to progress at the same rate, except for Fast Movement.
The Epic Forsaker gains a bonus feat every 5 levels, at 25th, 30th, 35th, 40th, etc.
If you use this, be sure to keep max ranks in Sense Motive & use it every time an NPC opens their mouth! The party will love you for it. The only snag I've run into is with transportation, especially teleporting. But my DM is creative enough to work around this (portals, flying machines, flying creatures, etc).
Rough Sketch of an Epic Prestige Class: Nullifier
Hit Die: d12
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier
Requirements:
BAB: +25
Epic Feats: Spellcasting Harrier, Improved SR
Special: Forsake Magic, Magic Destruction Points
Class Features:
1st Spell Disruption (spellcasting is automatically disrupted if damage is dealt, no concentration check allowed)(Ex) 1/day
2nd Resilient SR (force a re-roll of opponent’s SR punch)(Ex) 1/day
3rd Melee Nullification (targeted greater dispel magic on a successful melee attack)(Ex) 1/day
4th Nullifying Form (personal antimagic field covering only your 5’space, activated as a free action, lasts a number of rounds equal to Nullifier level)(Ex) 1/day
5th Bonus Feat
6th Spell Disruption 2/day
7th Resilient SR 2/day
8th Melee Nullification 2/day
9th Nullifying Form 2/day
10th Bonus Feat
In this kind of game, magic is never an issue. Encounters imply humanoids mainly. PCs are more obsessed with survival and not getting too high a corruption score (I play that, too) than getting more magic. Most of them have a single item they inherited with their background, and that get coveted by many NPCs (easing the intrigue most of the time...). Monsters have lost their spells and spell-like abilities as well, and most of them have a special condition under which they can really die. For instance, an entire session can revolve under killing a single 5-headed hydra, impervious to piercing damage and that can only killed if drown... Luring the monster in a lake while it knows it would die there can be very challenging for PCs with no magic.
To balance the loss of magical items, I give my PC a stat increase per level. They roll 1d6 to see which stat is increased (I like random). They also get 1 bonus feat every odd-numbered level including 1st rather than the normal progression (which gives the human fighter 23 feats at 20th level, but only 10 feats instead of 7 for other classes). That works fine and they all forgot about magic....
But again, that's my game.
Make those points in Diplomacy really count, if you know what I mean. That's what I do, and the crew really likes it, they'll go out of their ways to find ways to help the community in order to get a good price. Character depth and all that.Perhaps because evasion is one of the LEAST unique class features available? It's not flavourful, and it's found in many, many classes and prestige classes.Evasion, IMO is a honed skill. It’s an ex ability. Why should a magic item, grant you something that should be learned? It seems like a quick and dirty way to get power. *shrug* If this magic item was epic, I might not have a problem with it.This is exactly the same as the race logic. Yes, in D&D a fighter needs magical items to survive (in most campaigns). However, they're not relying more on magic than on their own skill. A twentieth level fighter has a BAB of 20, does the item grant a better to-hit than TWENTY? Of course not, the need to magical items to bump their skill up a bit to get to be effective, not to completely replace their skill.
Ok ok.... let's take off the magic from everything a fighter has.
+5 sword is now masterwork -4 decrease in attack
+6 strength item -3 decrease in attack
now armor
+5 full plate is now 8(+1)ac instead of 13(+1)
+5 shield is now just 2ac instead of 7
Ring of Protection +5
Amulet of Natural armor +5
That's a -20 decrease in armor class. To me that's relying more on magic than expertise could EVER give, now granted the BAB is more than he gets from magic and a sword.... but not that much more. The damage the fighter is doing is now significantly less (not that bad since in this example the fighter wasn't two handing the sword.) Not to mention the fighter won't be able to damage many things because he relies on the enchantment being strong enough to hurt the thing. (Not that this isn't a staple of fantasy or anything :P )
I was browsing though splatbooks, looking for some items to trick out my wizard with. I came across the "skilled" weapon enchantment in CA. Lordy! Now my wiz can melee! Spiked chain here I come! .
Sure. And his weapon is permanently inferior to the same weapon wielded by somebody with proficiency. (A +1 enhancement on an item kind of ruins it - it means that everything else you add is significantly more expensive, plus you're "one enhancement behind" forever).
Not to mention that a wizard is usually too fragile to be engaging in melee anyway, proficiency or not (and too weak, etc) and if he can't afford proficiency he isn't likely to have much in the way of feats either. Melee is more than proficiency. It is the combination of proficiency, weapon enhancements, feats and raw ability scores. If you go to enough splatbooks you can find ways around all of this - but not with equipment. It's with spells mostly, plus perhaps one feat (i.e. master's touch, heroism, polymorph/shapechange and maybe even divine power if you can find a way to get it, ring of spell storing, UMD a wand or scroll, or take arcane disciple (war) feat).
This kind of enchantment will only be taken for strong roleplay reasons, not for powergaming reasons. Anyone who can make the item can usually do better with something else. A +1 skillful spiked chain is actually inferior to a +1 merciful crossbow versus most opponents, for most wizards.
And either is vastly inferior to just using spells. They'd be a fallback for when the wizard is "dry" and none of his scrolls/wands work. Generally spending 8k on a nice wand or a bunch of scrolls or a pearl of power or something would make more sense.
These are the two things with which I personally have to disagree.
1) A magic Item can never truly replace a PC's race. I dare you to try to turn a Human or an Elf character's natural and racial abilities into those of a Pixie without resorting to epic level magic and/or artifacts. Ya just can't do it.
2) Magic items, though able to mimic some of the lesser class specific abilities such as Evasion, only just do that. A character and a class is so much more than a few random (and by the way I might add helpful) abilities. A character is a unique combination of conscious choices made by a PC never truly replaceable or mimicked by magic items. So what if that hulking fighter gets evasion? The rogue still has his sneak attack and the fighter still has his plethora of feats. What does he care if the rogue gets one or two magically? With a GOOD DM or GM (as some people call them) magic acts like water... It will seek its own level.
Ok ok.... let's take off the magic from everything a fighter has.
+5 sword is now masterwork -4 decrease in attack
+6 strength item -3 decrease in attack
now armor
+5 full plate is now 8(+1)ac instead of 13(+1)
+5 shield is now just 2ac instead of 7
Ring of Protection +5
Amulet of Natural armor +5
That's a -20 decrease in armor class.
3.5 tries to address this with the "named bonuses do not stack" rule. To a big extent, it really does help tone down the Christmas tree effect. If you have a +6 enhancement bonus to strength from an item, that's pretty much it - there's not much that will raise your strength any more.
In the items above, note that armor gives an "armor" bonus, and a shield gives a "shield" bonus, but the +5 on plate and the shield are both "enhancement bonuses to AC" and do not stack.
Now, a +5 armor/shield has a base price of 25kgp. Amulet of natural armor +5 - 50kgp. Ring prot +5, another 50kgp. That's 125,000 gold pieces - a fortune on those three items alone. Add a +5 sword (50kgp) and a +6 belt of giant str (36KGP), and we are looking at 211,000 gp - almost a quarter of a million gp. In today’s money (1sp=about a buck), that's a million smackaroos, twice over.
So yeah, if your adventurer is a multi-millionaire he can load up on stuff and be an unstoppable killing machine (unless he fails his will save or dex check - can anyone say Grease?). Your point is?
In any case, consider level. 211kgp is staring gold for a 15th level character - that's mid-to-high level. A 15th level fighter has a +15 attack bonus. This means that all that protective gear (+15 to AC) simply brings a fight between two 15th-level fighters back to square 1.
Hmm - maybe I see your point. Without all that stuff, the character would simply be toast and fights would come down to initiative rolls. ... No, dammit, that +15 BAB comes from the fighter's class and nothing else. That's the whole point, isn't it? Put a commoner in the hottest magic armor and gear available (not having weird 1/month insta-kill effects), and a high level fighter with a stick will still beat him, especially with all them feats.
Natural armor is similar. You can get racial natural armor with alter self and then have barkskin cast on you which provides a bonus to your natural armor (zero on a human normally, but +6 on a troglodyte).
While bonuses don't stack with themselves, they quite often *do* stack.
And item dependence has been a part of D&D from at least 1st edition days. In those days a nonspellcasting character was defined by his items - precious little separated one fighter from another aside from their hitpoint totals. (even strength was usually overridden with things like gaunts of ogre power or girdle of giant strength, which overwrote your strength score, rather than adding to it)
Now, a +5 armor/shield has a base price of 25kgp. Amulet of natural armor +5 - 50kgp. Ring prot +5, another 50kgp. That's 125,000 gold pieces - a fortune on those three items alone. Add a +5 sword (50kgp) and a +6 belt of giant str (36KGP), and we are looking at 211,000 gp - almost a quarter of a million gp. In today’s money (1sp=about a buck), that's a million smackaroos, twice over.
So yeah, if your adventurer is a multi-millionaire he can load up on stuff and be an unstoppable killing machine (unless he fails his will save or dex check - can anyone say Grease?). Your point is?
Wow 211,000... just my point, the fighter will need that much to stand up to Challenges of his level. Guess what level an average PC gets that at. You guessed it, in between level 15 and 16. Now let's say he has all that and a +10 sword. That makes....261,000 gp right? Would it be fair to say an average level 16 Fighter would have all that, and probably needs it as well? That's my point, magical items ate my fighter!
In any case, consider level. 211kgp is staring gold for a 15th level character - that's mid-to-high level. A 15th level fighter has a +15 attack bonus. This means that all that protective gear (+15 to AC) simply brings a fight between two 15th-level fighters back to square 1.
Hmm - maybe I see your point. Without all that stuff, the character would simply be toast and fights would come down to initiative rolls. ... No, dammit, that +15 BAB comes from the fighter's class and nothing else. That's the whole point, isn't it? Put a commoner in the hottest magic armor and gear available (not having weird 1/month insta-kill effects), and a high level fighter with a stick will still beat him, especially with all them feats.
Let's take an 8th level fighter and a 16th level fighter, give the 16th level fighter just a stick (let's even say for argument's sake he has all his feats based around a quarter staff), and the 6th level fighter with all the above mentioned stuff. Guess who wins? Oh, don't get me wrong, the 16th level fighter might survive for a long time, due to having all those nifty hit points... but all he would do in this fight is take hits and maybe score a critical or two. Do you see my point? While hunting for treasure is nice, it has become too required to survive without modding the challenges.
We don't really like that fighters are helpless without their magic swords and strength boosting items and so on. We want them to certainly be *better* with the magic sword, but it shouldn't be a huge gap. The way to fix this is to implement a sort of automatic bonuses system, similar to vow of poverty. It would be designed to trail behind a character's normal magic items at each level and maintain some degree of balance.
So for instance, a character may get a +3 resistance bonus simply for being 14th level. Normally a character of that level would already have a +5 cloak of resistance, but if for whatever reason he didn't, he'd still be relatively powerful. You can do the same with ability scores bonuses too. Maybe any weapon or armor a character of 13th level or better employs gains an enhancement bonus, simply from his innate combat skill.
Characters being defined by magical items can be a bit of an issue but as has been pointed out earlier having items doesn't make you defined by them. The artificer can make a utility belt of gear, he is the batman of D&D for example. Certain abilities don't even work that well in terms of effectiveness against properly CRd opponents without magic items being factored in.
Magic items were built into the balance, I've never found them 'eating' a character or race but I have found players seeking them. But, then again, in fantasy there are plenty of cases where people sought special items to defeat a foe or increase their own power.
We do compensate with a 4d6 character rolls as we feel heroic PC should have heroic stats, we find it brings out more roleplaying the less magic is involved. Half the crunch coming out of the source books are broken swill to start so there’s no point putting in or allowing it in a campaign. Side effects and higher cost is also a good way to limit magic use. Even a rule of equivalent exchange is enough to slow even munchkin wizards for acquiring a smorgasbord of magic items.
Keep track of magic components, you haven’t seen a po’ed player until you tell him there miles from the nearest sulfur deposit and 100gp pearls do not grow on trees. (I like screwing with wizards. ;) ) Make them pay for the cost for every spell in they’re spellbook, that rule is there to keep wizards from out shining the other classes. Cleric of a war god negotiates a peace treaty, cut them off from their god 1 day per level or require atonement or whatever. Druid helps construct a building for small village, cut them off as well. Give the bard laryngitis, let the monk find a headband that the think will increase their wisdom but it’s cursed to make the chaotic instead. Mmmm, deliciously evil!
Magic does not have to be the PC friend. To this day our group is more terrified of a fountain that granted wishes than we are of any dragon we’ve ever come across.Keep track of magic components, you haven’t seen a po’ed player until you tell him there miles from the nearest sulfur deposit and 100gp pearls do not grow on trees. (I like screwing with wizards. ;) ) Make them pay for the cost for every spell in they’re spellbook, that rule is there to keep wizards from out shining the other classes. Cleric of a war god negotiates a peace treaty, cut them off from their god 1 day per level or require atonement or whatever. Druid helps construct a building for small village, cut them off as well. Give the bard laryngitis, let the monk find a headband that the think will increase their wisdom but it’s cursed to make the chaotic instead. Mmmm, deliciously evil!
Yes, because nothing says fun like making things needlessly difficult for your players that have the audacity to want to do something other than hit things and wear heavy armor. Honestly, I have had no problems with players overpowering whatever they face.
As for magical items 'eating' a character...well please give a better definition. The fighter has their techniques but yes, they are going to have to have at least some things to deal with the bigger enemies.
But then again the average caster will still kick the ass of everything in a lower magic setting because there is less to deal with them.
I haven't really seen much of a power creep on the player end, if you want power creep compare the Monster Manuals.
One of the first things the DM did was have a conversation about what we, as players, see a "good" game having. Was it fantastic combats against impressive monsters, lots of dungeon crawling, a plot-run adventure campaign, a mystery-solving style adventure with lots of role-play instead of die-rolling.... just what we were looking for.
From that, we developed campaign based on a massive, sweeping storyline, with lots of sub-plots and sidetracks to explore. We started at second level, and most of us are now 6-7th level. My fighter went from 4th to 6th, and never swung his sword- though a few bar fights did occur. There is only ONE magic item in the entire party.
It is what we wanted.
It seems that most of the comments above came out of campaigns where the "WHAT WE WANT" was never established. Heck, if the players wanted a Monty-Haul campaign, then run one and have a ball.
Yes, because nothing says fun like making things needlessly difficult for your players that have the audacity to want to do something other than hit things and wear heavy armor. Honestly, I have had no problems with players overpowering whatever they face.
As for magical items 'eating' a character...well please give a better definition. The fighter has their techniques but yes, they are going to have to have at least some things to deal with the bigger enemies.
But then again the average caster will still kick the ass of everything in a lower magic setting because there is less to deal with them.
I haven't really seen much of a power creep on the player end, if you want power creep compare the Monster Manuals.
It is not being needlessly difficult if it's actually in the rules. It has been my experience in other groups that DMs and players would not keep track of wizards spell components, which had the effect of wizard outshining the rest of the party. Granted a well rounded wizard could be a party unto themselves, but then there'd be no point to playing in a party, however the wizard does have limitations that if you pay attention to them allows everyone to take part. Most of the spellcasters can outshine the non-casters if you don't pay attention to both strengths and weakness. I think its why many think the wizard is overpowered and fighter weak, paying for components is actually a limitation of wizard and sorcerer that should be remembered. Alignment and religious dogma keep clerics, paladins, and monks in line, if they stray to far IMO, they should be spanked. The bard was jerk so I had to screw with him though.:P
It is not being needlessly difficult if it's actually in the rules. It has been my experience in other groups that DMs and players would not keep track of wizards spell components, which had the effect of wizard outshining the rest of the party. Granted a well rounded wizard could be a party unto themselves, but then there'd be no point to playing in a party, however the wizard does have limitations that if you pay attention to them allows everyone to take part. Most of the spellcasters can outshine the non-casters if you don't pay attention to both strengths and weakness. I think its why many think the wizard is overpowered and fighter weak, paying for components is actually a limitation of wizard and sorcerer that should be remembered. Alignment and religious dogma keep clerics, paladins, and monks in line, if they stray to far IMO, they should be spanked. The bard was jerk so I had to screw with him though.:P
True, but arbitrarily declaring that components that have no listed cost are unavailable. Then there's also the thing with priests, most go sans deity as well as the fact that a war priest can still bring peace. After all Heironius is a war deity but a just peace would please him rather than anger him.
It has been my experience in other groups that DMs and players would not keep track of wizards spell components, which had the effect of wizard outshining the rest of the party.
Exactly on the nose! Yes, its tedious book-keeping, and the spell component pouch and what it contains is intentionally vague. But keeping track of it is key to limiting the sorcerer and wizard.
One of my favorite tricks as a DM was to make characters rolls saves for their equipment when they take magical damage. It really swings an entire battle when the component pouch catches fire....
Ex: Leather has a hardness of 2. A wooden buckler has 5 hp, so a small belt pouch will have 2 or 3. But nothing says so, so give it 5 hp. .
Now, lets say the mage in question is the subject of a fireball. 6D6 will do an average of 21 HP. Save for half, as items worn roll for saves as their character. So, if they fail their save, they take 21. Their equipment takes 10, since per the SRD fire does half damage to items. Subtract the 2 for hardness, and the remaining 8 points burns up their component pouch. If they make their save, however, then they take 10, their items take 5. Subtract the 2 for hardness, and it takes 3 points. Damaged, but not lost.
Other ways to limit mages: belts being ripped off in unarmed combat. I typically give belt-buckles a DC strength of 17 to reflect a one-handed tug to remove. You just use the combat information for grabbing items, then make a DC check to break. Heck, grappling is a major way to limit mages- you cannot cast spells with somatic components while grappled.
Now, how do magic items come into play? Well, it becomes a case of items that increase your caster's AC versus items that give the enemy a chance to strike first.
Which leaves me with my final caution; Beware of monks with rings of invisibility and improved grapple feat.
I also hate the way that people seem to treat the magic item lists as extended equipment lists, like they should just be entitled to walk into a store somewhere and plunk down 500,000 gp for a sword of exceptional slicing and dicing anytime they have the money, and the DM is screwing them if magic shops aren't readily available and stocked with everything in the book.
I also dislike the way "game balance" has been enshrined as the goal above all goals. It stems from two basic assumptions which I find to be really damaging and tend towards being self-fulfilling prophecies. First, all players are munchkins who will play whatever is most powerful and exploit every loophole possible to make their characters more efficient killing machines. Second, the amount of fun you have gaming is directly proportional to how powerful your character is relative to everyone else, and in order to make sure everyone gets their fair allotment of fun, you must make absolutely sure that everyone stays in balance with everyone else.
I loved the "Note on Balance" in the section of the Talislanta D20 rules concerning playable races:
"Many different roleplaying games go to great lengths to ensure a proper balance is maintained between characters of different types. Talislanta has never been one of those games.
The sheer number of playable races makes balancing them all impossible. Talislanta has always been about the setting and as such, matters of balance are largely ignored. The focus of Talislanta has been, and should be, about roleplaying. This means that certain character types might be less powerful in game terms, however this should have no bearing on the fun a player will have playing a lesser powered character. An Aeriad Botanomancer can be just as much fun to roleplay as a mighty Thrall or Kang warrior."
Ideas like this have always sat uneasily with D&D, but in the current edition they've become outright heresy. I think the magic item/CR/experience system is a major contributing factor to this problem.
3.5 tries to address this with the "named bonuses do not stack" rule. To a big extent, it really does help tone down the Christmas tree effect. If you have a +6 enhancement bonus to strength from an item, that's pretty much it - there's not much that will raise your strength any more.
In the items above, note that armor gives an "armor" bonus, and a shield gives a "shield" bonus, but the +5 on plate and the shield are both "enhancement bonuses to AC" and do not stack.
Just want to point this out before i forget... From DMG.. page 217 -
Shields: Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses, so that a +1 heavy steel shield and +1 chainmail grant a total bonus of +9 to AC.
I agree that 3/3.5 is entirely too dependent upon magic. All of our campaigns over the years have been great and the have all been low-magic or at least tough-to-aquire-magic. Any DM worth his or her salt can make a little adjustment like that work.
I couldn’t agree more with the powercreep and insinuation of magic, while D&D was made to integrate magic and magic items it seems the trend of late is for magic to 'outshine' everything else about the game (I blame that Harry Potter brat myself :P ). In our group we have handled it several ways. We limit source material for characters and/or seek approval for certain classes etc after disclosing the source if the DM doesn’t know it, limit magic availability (seriously we were 3rd level this last time before we came across a +1 dagger).
We do compensate with a 4d6 character rolls as we feel heroic PC should have heroic stats, we find it brings out more roleplaying the less magic is involved. Half the crunch coming out of the source books are broken swill to start so there’s no point putting in or allowing it in a campaign. Side effects and higher cost is also a good way to limit magic use. Even a rule of equivalent exchange is enough to slow even munchkin wizards for acquiring a smorgasbord of magic items.
Keep track of magic components, you haven’t seen a po’ed player until you tell him there miles from the nearest sulfur deposit and 100gp pearls do not grow on trees. (I like screwing with wizards. ;) ) Make them pay for the cost for every spell in they’re spellbook, that rule is there to keep wizards from out shining the other classes. Cleric of a war god negotiates a peace treaty, cut them off from their god 1 day per level or require atonement or whatever. Druid helps construct a building for small village, cut them off as well. Give the bard laryngitis, let the monk find a headband that the think will increase their wisdom but it’s cursed to make the chaotic instead. Mmmm, deliciously evil!
The war cleric negotiating a peace treaty means nothing since apparently you don't know the first rule of peace and war: "Peace is only the Prelude to war; those who prepare for war will easily take those that think they are at 'peace'." For all you know the cleric wanted time to gear up his organization for the next war.
Spell component pouches have every thing needed to cast a spell that a wizard knows, barring expensive foci and expensive material components.
You can houserule whatever you want. However if the GP limit is low enough for a wizard to buy a pearl, then he can. If he can't, then something is not working properly in your world and the PCs have to go and fix it. In any case, it really doesn't matter. The druid will still dominate your game. Perhaps the cleric as well.
The crap classes will always get the shaft unless enough gear is thrown at every party member. As the GP limit approaches infinity, the non-casters level off with the casters in terms of ability and power.
Of course, if the group always faces CRs and encounter of an ECL much lower than themselves gear isn't much of an issue either.
Magic items are the primary form of character customization in D&D
I disagree. I play a Rogue/Sorcerer and my character's "image" is mostly defined by:
his weapons--twin switchblade longsword (black, of course, fashioned in a specific design)/light crossbow (also custom designed) bracer combination, retractable metal quarterstaff (because he's a humanist; that is, declines to kill humans), as well as weapons for specific situations and back-up weapons--
his equipment--grappling-arrow for bracer-bows, boot-spikes for climbing bonuses, sunrods, ropes, and pockets and compartments galore for this and everything else; most of his items are nonmagical utility items--
his armor and wardrobe--his chainmail shirt is short-sleeved and in a specific design, his cargo khakis are woven with fine chainmail on the inside, he wears a hooded mantle with a specific design over his chainmail shirt--
and his fighting style--obviously likes to stalk the shadows and only attack when necessary, picking opponents off one by one, but when confronted directly fights defensively until he can gain a tactical advantage, relying on dexterity and some feats to hold off his opponent. As a two-weapon fighter, he uses his second weapon to help him fend off his enemy rather than just extra raw damage; that is, unless extra damage would be a tactical advantage and help him take down an enemy quicker. He would rather run than face multiple enemies and shines in single-opponent combat where he doesn't have to worry about being flanked or volleyed by arrows. His fighting style is probably his most distinctive trait.
His sorcererous abilities are mainly used to make up for the raw hitting power he lacks as a Rogue. His lightning/force mage abilities are mainly used to augment his class abilities and fighting style. Sometimes he likes to open up with a lighting bolt to get in some preliminary damage, or stand in the background and cast some spells when he's low on HP or casting a spell would make more sense than trying a sneak attack (for instance, if he was out of arrows or it wouldn't be safe to flank). Here again, how he uses magic really depends on tactics. Magical enhancements on his items don't even factor into his image.
Speaking of tactics, why make the assumption that every enemy is meant to be overcome? Last time I checked, running is a valid tactical option. Is it so hard to swallow your pride (or your character's pride) that you'll fight to the death when an encounter turns out to be more than you can handle? Sometimes the PCs really pull one over on the DM when an encounter he thought would be challenging doesn't even faze the PCs. Sometimes the exact opposite happens. What I don't understand is how this is the DM's fault.
Does the DM have to bend encounters to accommodate my character? Yes. More than he would have otherwise? I don't think so. I think it's slacking on the DM's part when the encounter doesn't match the party's abilities, unless that was his express intention.
In addition to the fact that you're blaming the system for many things that are not the system's fault by any means, there is an obvious and effective conclusion one simply must come to if one continues to pursue that irrational course of action: change the system. In this case, make magic items rarer and raise the CR of non-Humanoids. Of course, you'll have to pretty much rewrite the spellcasting classes if you want this to work well, but I would say that you need to do that regardless.
It is not being needlessly difficult if it's actually in the rules.
Incorrect. It is explicitly stated that components of less than 1gp cost can be ignored if the spellcaster has his component pouch. That is why they don't even bother to list down the cost of the individual components. You are being needlessly difficult if you require casters to keep track of every little bit of spell component. We are gamers, not accountants.
Alignment and religious dogma keep clerics, paladins, and monks in line, if they stray to far IMO, they should be spanked.
Yes, it does, more the Paladin than anyone else. However, there is nothing grossly violating about either of those. Heironious, for example, would not punish his Cleric for brokering a peace treaty. Neither would Hextor, in some cases. Erythnul would, though.
The bard was jerk so I had to screw with him though.:P
This *proves* you are and should not be DM-ing, let alone passing judgment on the system itself, but that is another story.
I have played in many games from Battletech to World of Darkness. I have played D&D since 1st Ed. I have yet to see any of the problems the OP was alluding to. What we have here is an argument that, consciously or subconsciously, compares D&D to real life.
"There are no uber magical items in real life!!! D&D is so broken with all its magical items!!!" These type of people are typically of the "I hate the Forgotten Realms! Every pub owner is a level 2-gazillion retired adventurer and every farmer has a +1 dagger!" breed.
Shall I introduce you to the Darksword setting, then, where you are considered a *freak* if you do *not* have magic? Magic is setting specific. That said, a certain level needs to be assumed by the writers when they set out challenges and monster CR ratings. Otherwise, the entire system will fall apart. Not only the D&D system, but any system you can name. In fact, our entire *society* will fall apart without a standard yardstick to measure things. Who is Good, who is Evil? How long is A from B, 100 your handspan or mine? The table of wealth by level is the yardstick that D&D measures itself by. That is all it is. Claiming that that somehow destroys your game is a laughable claim. It *is* the game. The entire XP, challenge rating, and level system *depends* on it. Take that out, and you might as well sit around a fire going
DM: The door opens and a spear flies out, killing Bob.
Bob: No, it doesn't! I use my famous wuxia martial arts of uber evasion and get out of the way.
DM: What? When did you get that?
Bob: I made it up. We are playing D&D without dice rolls and XP and levels, right?
DM: Umm... Yes...
Bob: So who cares if we live or die? We never get better, we are stuck in this infinite time loop of level 1, and you are throwing Balors at us.
DM: Umm... OK.
Bob: Right, so after I do my uber moves, you are all so awed, you worship me. Not that it matters, since we all don't have equipment and we are all eating the gold the DM gave us since that is all it is useful for.
Other PCs: *snores*
Other than that, I disagree with almost everything the OP has stated, to me, it appears that the OP isn't very well versed within the 3.5 rules (magic usage, suggested item allotment, managing gp wealth). I also used to dread spellcasting PCs and magic items, but after a few campaigns and a few re-reads of the rules ever now and then I’ve learned that the magic item problem isn’t a big deal. Character diversity isn’t lost due to magic items, it's lost to player greed. When a character stops describing his character and starts say things like "I activate my rod of diplomacy, which allows me to take 20 on my check, so what does the mayor tell me?", then you have a problem. A simple watchful eye from the DM and some stern calls should and often will abolish any problems that magic items might impose.
True, but arbitrarily declaring that components that have no listed cost are unavailable. Then there's also the thing with priests, most go sans deity as well as the fact that a war priest can still bring peace. After all Heironius is a war deity but a just peace would please him rather than anger him.
Maybe but, not if you legitimate want to track actual usage, IMO its a mistake to allow a wizard to just automatically have all the cheap components they want and not track it. A wizard out in the 'field' shouldn't be able to cast fireball infinitely from day-to-day without restocking, while it doing so would be good for the party to a degree, it also takes away from the party. For cheap stuff like Fireball components I say 1 copper gets 10 uses, stuff like the pearl for Identify I make the wizard actually purchase the pearls, they can buy as many and much as they want and/or can afford but I make sure it's kept track of.
Allowing a wizard have and cast all the spells they want or come across without having them pay for it is how wizards are looked at as being overpowered. I used to be a really hater of the class because of it, but once someone pointed their limitations out I see how they are supposed to be balanced compared to the other classes.
Good point about the war priest, but I think that may depend on the deity in question Heironius might advocate a peace treaty but Tempus may not, his dogma comes across more like having a winner. Clerics and paladins are pretty much under obligation to push their deities agenda, those classes are lifestyles not fads, they can't flip-flop between them. I make them aware or at least hint at any possible conflict of interest between religious dogma and what they feel their character should do, and allow them to possibly justify it.
I want to hear this... how was the bard a jerk?
The player in question was a nightmare, absolutely obnoxious, played CN in worse ways and tried to justify it. I eventually ruled him evil because of his continuously selfish acts. He made sure he insinuated himself into every single small thing that happened; lied, treated, and stole every opportunity that came, not only to NPCs but players as well. Used Suggestion on a party member to get the guy to pay for a magic item, stole something from another member that got them killed. So I had him kidnapped by Yuan-ti; it wasn't pretty.
I agree that 3/3.5 is entirely too dependent upon magic. All of our campaigns over the years have been great and the have all been low-magic or at least tough-to-acquire-magic. Any DM worth his or her salt can make a little adjustment like that work.
Apparently you never played 2nd edition, or, if you did, your DM never ran you against anything that required anything other than 'THWAK'
If you design games that are lower magic, fine, that's your way of doing the game. I've done games like that too and they can be quite fun but they can be very easy to screw up if a DM isn't careful. Magic items can be a great thing and yes, if they're treated as just another thing it can get annoying.
But that also has to do with how the items are treated and what the players had to go through to get them. I mean at higher levels magic items are going to be used by guards, so yes it will change the perspective.
A better question might be WHY magic items are causing a problem. To those of you who claim that 3rd edition weakened gamers the same has been said of 2nd edition and just as loudly. We may say the same about 4th, 5th, all the way up to nth edition (where we run out of numbers)
While I would like to create an entirely new magic system, making it work would be a nightmare. The current system is a working, usable system, even if you don't like it or disagree with it. And a wizard will never be able to buy enough magic items to make him nearly as combative as a fighter with equal magic items, nor could a fighter fling spells like a wizard if both had equal magic items. That is until the wizard polymorphs himself, but that's another issue that has more to do with the game's favoritism of wizards over fighters than the magic item system.
Maybe but, not if you legitimate want to track actual usage, IMO its a mistake to allow a wizard to just automatically have all the cheap components they want and not track it. A wizard out in the 'field' shouldn't be able to cast fireball infinitely from day-to-day without restocking, while it doing so would be good for the party to a degree, it also takes away from the party. For cheap stuff like Fireball components I say 1 copper gets 10 uses, stuff like the pearl for Identify I make the wizard actually purchase the pearls, they can buy as many and much as they want and/or can afford but I make sure it's kept track of.
Allowing a wizard have and cast all the spells they want or come across without having them pay for it is how wizards are looked at as being overpowered. I used to be a really hater of the class because of it, but once someone pointed their limitations out I see how they are supposed to be balanced compared to the other classes.
Except for the fact that you're houseruling. Look, by RAW the caster doesn't need to reload the components pouch constantly. I still make them buy the big stuff or commission it (The silver fiddle alone was enough to frustrate the party as the smiths tried to create it). In doing this you are arbitrarily making it more difficult for the casters, this isn't fair or right and it makes your position harder to defend.
By this gradient, to cast a fireball spell, you need a fire-affinity focus (I imagine them as highly ornate and stylized wands with gems and crystals as the 'point') of the appropriate level or higher. The way it works, a 9th level fire-affinity focus could channel all fire-type spells of that level and lower. It can't focus any other type of spell, like earth or necromancy.
Mind-affecting spells would need their own foci like a pendulum or something shiny. Bards would naturally use their instrument as the focus of all their spells, no matter what type. For flavor, you could have foci with crystals, gems and pearls (these minerals being the actual channeling element, even though the whole focus is magical).
If you wanted to get granular, you could say that the integrity of the channeler (the crystal) degrades over time and you have to buy new ones.
You might say that these resemble wants greatly, and I would agree. But mechanically, aren't material components just one-use wands?
You can’t own an item with higher caster lvl than your own character level.
That and having a good understanding of the game mechanics, because the game and the CR its adjusted for your players to have those items, at least the AC, saving throws and score enhancements; everything else has to be judged by the DM to enter the game (even tanglefoot bags
).Maybe this is going to annoy your players, but you need to have a good picture of what kind of game are you willing to run. I’ve found other house rules to be useful to limit magic items power:
-No magic item shops with +5 vorpal swords, if you want to have this kind of stuff you'll have to make it, or quest for it; just think about it, a spellcaster wasting all that exp to do this kind of items just to wait for some one to expend 200,000 gold on it. Limit the magic item shops with basic items (enhancements, pots and scrolls).
-Use the rule of 1 day per 1000 gp for making magic items also for buyed magic items, if you want another +5 vest of resistance in the middle of the adventure you'll have to wait 25 days, again, imagine the picture of this wizard wasting his exp to see if anyone with enough money just passes by his shop.
-No custom magic items if you cant make custom magic items, and even then you'll need DM approval; this avoids the rogue buying a custom hat of superior invisibility.
I hope this helps.
Looking over the various complaints, it seems to me that there is a substantial concern about that magic items constitute too great a part of a character's power; additional concerns are that D&D is too overpowered and that spellcasters dominate non-spellcasters. Let's run over these from easiest to hardest.
D&D is overpowered
On the face of it, this claim means something like, "D&D is more powerful than its rivals." That's hardly a 'problem' that Wizards would want 'solved'
Now, I'm sure that's not what people mean when they write it: there's some implicit other meaning behind this phrase.Implicit meanings are really annoying, though, because I never know if I'm reading the right one. Actually, upgrade them from "really annoying" to "a barrier to communication".
But we might be able to get around this one by being explicit about the possible interpretations.Firstly, I can read the claim as being that "D&D operates with higher numbers than I like." Personally, I find this charge a bit petty - the actual values are irrelevant to the game play, except in terms of arithmetic (and D&D has no difficult arithmetic). Equally uncharitably, the claim might be that "D&D characters can perform unrealistic feats" - this one should dispense with itself!
More substantial problems could be "D&D is too heavily biased in favour of the players". Some posters seem to think that this is the case, and it's a reasonable sort of position. If that is what you mean when you complain of the game being overpowered, and you're a DM, then my advice is to seek help strictly for making the game more challenging on these forums, focusing in particular on making encounters more difficult without changing their CR.
In the same vein, the claim might be that "D&D is too heavily biased against the players". If that's the case, stopping off at the CO boards is an option; failing that, talk to your DM about the level of difficulty and with your fellow players about how you can improve your tactics and teamwork.
If I haven't covered what you mean, then I'd encourage you to be clear about what the problem actually is, instead of resorting to the cliché.
Magic Items constitute too great a share of character power
I'm quite sympathetic to this complaint, but getting rid of magic items is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You'll end up radically changing the balance of power between characters and encounters, and having to rewrite much of the game.
As a moderate sort of change, I suggest using the item creation rules to add training benefits to characters. So, rather than buying or finding an Amulet of Health, have the character seek out the fearsome Frost Barbarians and undertake their rite of manhood (which basically involves standing naked on a windswept mountain peak while a warrior beats you with a large icicle until it breaks or you do). Characters who want to develop their own benefits can take feats to allow this to be done - I'm not sure what would constitute a natural sort of division in these terms.
Some thought would be required in terms of treasure, and use of body slots. The precise answers that you come to about the knock-on changes here will vary dependant upon whether this is a replacement for magic items or in addition to them. (One natural sort of division would be to replace only permanent magic items, while keeping up the market in expendables.)
Spellcasters dominate non-spellcasters
I think this is more of a problem with Clerics and Druids than anything else. You can just replace the party Fighter with a Cleric and be strictly better off than you were - that doesn't tend to be true of Arcane spellcasters.
No, I don't have a solution to this. Sorry.
Spellcasters dominate non-spellcasters
I think this is more of a problem with Clerics and Druids than anything else. You can just replace the party Fighter with a Cleric and be strictly better off than you were - that doesn't tend to be true of Arcane spellcasters.
No, I don't have a solution to this. Sorry.
My solution for now: use Tome of Battle classes. They aren't as powerful as spell casters, but they at least they aren't quite as overshadowed anymore. (The fact that there's a knee-jerk reaction that it's overpowered, and it's widely accepted that CoDzilla is overpowered tells you that it's at least a step in the right direction, of course, you could simply nerf everything really powerful and get rid of the whole "D&D is overpowered" thing, but then you'd have a "D&D is underpowered problem... balancing it or overpowering it will appeal to more people than those who want to play sub-optimal farmers.
Magic Items constitute too great a share of character power
I'm quite sympathetic to this complaint, but getting rid of magic items is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You'll end up radically changing the balance of power between characters and encounters, and having to rewrite much of the game.
As a moderate sort of change, I suggest using the item creation rules to add training benefits to characters. So, rather than buying or finding an Amulet of Health, have the character seek out the fearsome Frost Barbarians and undertake their rite of manhood (which basically involves standing naked on a windswept mountain peak while a warrior beats you with a large icicle until it breaks or you do). Characters who want to develop their own benefits can take feats to allow this to be done - I'm not sure what would constitute a natural sort of division in these terms.
Some thought would be required in terms of treasure, and use of body slots. The precise answers that you come to about the knock-on changes here will vary dependant upon whether this is a replacement for magic items or in addition to them. (One natural sort of division would be to replace only permanent magic items, while keeping up the market in expendables.)
You know, I really, really like this and it wouldn't be too abusable given a few rules.
1. The 'magical items' are now... 'training methods'
'Training Methods' cover everything, from memorizing complex formula to increase your intellect (headband of int +2-6); to learning how to pack your belongings as well as you can (bags of holding, heward's handy haversack; etc.); being able to get 'addresses' to as many members of the opposite sex as possible in a night (circlet of persuasion, cloak of cha +2-6); practicing jumping, climbing or learning the 'rudiments' of a spell such as Fly that you can (that you can only use a few times per day) (boots of Striding and Sprinting, Ring of Climbing, Winged Boots).
2. The 'Training Methods' take up body slots just like magical items normally would
3. Only one 'Training Method' could be active at a time on any one body slot (or two in the case of rings). Changing from one 'Training Method' to an other takes at least a full round action to remove and an other full round action to change into using a different one.
4. Training in a new 'Training Method' involves some sort of challenge or practice (an opportunity for role play, or skill checks) as well as expensive components or training (or, if you're Training yourself into having a bonus charisma or cha-based checks; really fancy booze or hiring one or more really skilled wingmen or women that will give you pointers).
5. Anyone can 'learn' the item creation feats. Minimum levels to get a feat are equal to a full caster learning the same feat (so, a 5th lvl character could learn 'Train Wondrous Abilities' (aka train wond items)).
It should be noted that the following will happen when doing the above:
1. [i]Combat cannot not occur at all. You are substituting item creation with a sort of mini-adventure, not a chance for you as a DM to add in combat that will muck these training sessions up.
2. After spending the time, you automatically get the resultant 'Training Method'; no ifs, buts or ands. It's done. The player has spent the cash and xp.