Mechanical Magic: Steam Engines and Spells - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Mechanical Magic: Steam Engines and Spells

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Endarire
Dec 15, 2004 1:16:18 [size=5]MECHANICAL MAGIC: STEAM ENGINES AND SPELLS[/size]
By Endarire 12 14 4

[size=3]Links[/size]
Dave1001's Inventor Core Class 2.0 [b]|[/b] Dave's Tech Warrior Core Class
Contact me if these links are down so I can send the information.

[size=3]Preface[/size]

D&D 3.5, by default, is a roleplaying game about Tordek, Lidda, Mialee, Jozan, and their respective players going through various dungeons, gaining power, and eventually becoming level 20 by killing lots and lots of things of appropriate CR and getting some swank loot, much of it magical, in line with the DMG's treasure table.

Really now, does anyone play that way?

[size=3]Background[/size]

"Truly highly-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" originated on Earth by one Arthur C. Clarke some years ago and its intended meaning was that the things man makes, to one who has never experienced such a technological level, would be considered supernatural, perhaps infernal or divine. What about from the D&D perspective? Greyhawk, the default campaign world, has a deep magical tradition. Somehow, magic came about and people started studying and using it, and using it, but never stopped. Magic was convenient among other things; therefore, magic became common, and when things become common they're expected. Technology in this case meaning scientific breakthroughs occurring since the Industrial Revolution didn't catch on because it was late, expensive, or/and just not as impressive.

It didn't have to be that way.

Eberron changed that, much to the delight of many. Magic and technology were discovered in tandem leading to interesting developments like airships, and, of course, the Warforged. Eberron technology seems to me at least like another form of magic.

[size=3]Your World's Magitech[/size]

"Magitech" is a term from Final Fantasy VI by Square for Super Nintendo, originally released as Final Fantasy III in the US, which blended industrial technology with magic, most notably with the Magitech mech walkers that shot fire, ice, and lightning beams. (Terra shot other things, but that's beside the point.) There are notable decisions to make concerning each magic and technology, but these are the most important. By default, my examples use Greyhawk.

How and when did magic and technology come to this world?
Maybe gods created the first spells and entrusted them to their lackeys for safe keeping until one day a lackey was at a mortal's whim and got magical talent. Likewise, what caused interest in someone to experiment with gears, steam, lasers, etc.? In a homebrew world, this likely means creating the pantheon.

How common is it?
In Faerun, just about everyone has some magical talent or knows someone locally who does, while in Lord of the Rings, only a select circle wield the power. Because Faerunian magic is common, it's also somewhat cheap to the common peasant compared to, say, Greyhawk. You must also consider how much player characters can access each for how much. Even in Faerun, not every city has a magic shop, but how prevalent is technology? Is it limited solely to hobbyists and dabblers or does it fuel major metropolises?

How do people react to peaceful magic or technology use in close physical proximity and just by hearing about incidents miles away?
Do people scream in terror at prestidigitation for that means it's a mage and mages are 'evil?' Likewise, if someone builds a steam-powered iron golem to carry stuff or even a simple lighter, will people care? If you heard the chief cleric of Yondalla creates food and water for a banquet in some city a week's journey away, would you be scared? What if some tech guru created and used a combine harvester?

What famous beings currently use or have used it?
Leomund, Mordenkainen, Rary, and others' names line the PHB's spell section for their exploits, and people know of them even if they've never met. If Twip Carwinkle the gnomish Einstein goes to another country where his steam-powered wagon is produced by laymen and all the rage for nobles and adventurers, how likely is he to be recognized? What happens when he visits a country where his inventions are, at best, barely known?

How obvious is its use and its wielders?
People know when fireballs hit and probably how spellbooks appear, but can they recognize a pistol and do they think it thunder when a shot fires?

Which came first assuming both exist?
This is not necessarily a chicken-and-the-egg situation: In most D&D campaign worlds, magic came first and what little technology exists did so after centuries of magical commonplace. If magic was first then expect more mages proportionate to the head start. If both came about around the same time, what allows coexistence?

How easily is each negated?
Antimagic fields and null psionics zones exist, but aren't everywhere. Is there something preventing technology from working in similar ways? If technology reigned for countless years, how did magic suddenly emerge? Maybe some mage plane shifted to modern Earth and decided that a few mass suggestions would win him the world.

Generally, how do casters view scientists and vice versa?
This could vary regionally, worldwide, or planarly, but do these groups consider each other more friends, friendly rivals, or enemies? Are nations sworn to technology shrouded in an antimagic field?

What can spells and inventions do?
Spells are powerful and versatile, and technology is too. Determine how powerful technology is in relation to magic. If one can do just about everything at least as well as the other, there's a problem. Also, consider how much common functionality exists. Amply-leveled Clerics can cross planes and speak with gods, though, on a lesser scale, they can create food and perhaps even minor flames using their powers. Likewise, do technological planeshifters exist? What about lighters and other 'simple' mechanisms? Remember, just because some gadget exists currently in modern Earth doesn't mean it should in a campaign, and even if something is impossible or seemingly so on Earth doesn't automatically nullify it.

Is combining them sensical?
There's a time for everything, but sometimes meshing magic and technology is like eating sugar cookies with ketchup: It's weird and different, and is pretty certain to offend a victim's taste.

-EE
#2
loopy
Jan 11, 2005 11:39:53 Thank you for this fabulous article; it spells out some excellent guidelines for using technology in a campaign. The fact that there are no hard game rules makes it twice as excellent. I for one agree that most D&D games are played not as if it were set in the past, but as a more modern world that has magic instead of technology and who has a more enlightened social structure. Here is a link to my campaign world, which is another take on technology in D&D, but more the crumbling "how do we fix this" kind rather than technomajik. I hope it helps for those of you thinking about starting your own campaign world and maybe the author could give me a few pointers.

http://www.harvestmooncampaign.com

Thanks
=A=
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 29, 2005 11:13:51 Some good thoughts. The system I use is if it works in the real world it works in D&D. People know about electricity but magic is more convenient - why make a bad lightbulb when continual flame is available? But the two can coexist. e.g. in the middle of the town is a large clock for all to see, primarily mechanical it however sets its time automatically from the sun and adjusts it speed by create water spells.
#4
quenditar
Feb 07, 2005 13:49:48 To me, the advantage of magic over technology is that the field is much better-researched and the effects are much more spectacular, which creates a disincentive to research in other branches of science. Why bother researching better dyes when a magical machine can turn clothing any shade of the rainbow with no expensive materials and fewer workers?

This disincentive, on the other hand, goes a long way towards explaining why the world of D&D is what would nowadays be called a Third World country; magic is expensive and the production of magic items doesn't lend itself to mechanization. As long as wizards are rare and magic item components are expensive, there won't be lamps with continual flame in every home or decanters of endless water instead of wells.

Technology as we know it is more expensive to research, but once researched significantly cheaper to produce; skilled smiths are going to be easier to find than wizards, and their devices easier to reverse-engineer. With little demand for magic-free devices, though, "technology" as we know it is a curiosity rather than a major field of research.

Non-magical science is likely in a medieval state - no organized collaboration, no journals, no "community". Someone who knows the history of science better than I do should elaborate on the differences between medieval scientists and 17th-century scientists.

An anti-technological force (magical technology and otherwise) that is very effective in the short term is popular resistance to the loss of jobs caused by more efficient technology. I recall reading (though I can't find the quote) that Montesquieu was strongly against mechanization because it reduced opportunities for employment. Guilds working to preserve their monopoly and rulers seeking to avoid social unrest both have strong incentives to ban any new method of production.

Now, there's no reason why magic-powered factory machinery can't exist if both branches of science are advanced enough; that sort of thing is limited by genre conventions.

In the end, it all comes down to economics.

Well, that's my $0.02.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Endarire Dec 15, 2004 1:16:18	[size=5]MECHANICAL MAGIC: STEAM ENGINES AND SPELLS[/size] By Endarire 12 14 4 [size=3]Links[/size] Dave1001's Inventor Core Class 2.0 [b]\|[/b] Dave's Tech Warrior Core Class Contact me if these links are down so I can send the information. [size=3]Preface[/size] D&D 3.5, by default, is a roleplaying game about Tordek, Lidda, Mialee, Jozan, and their respective players going through various dungeons, gaining power, and eventually becoming level 20 by killing lots and lots of things of appropriate CR and getting some swank loot, much of it magical, in line with the DMG's treasure table. Really now, does anyone play that way? [size=3]Background[/size] "Truly highly-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" originated on Earth by one Arthur C. Clarke some years ago and its intended meaning was that the things man makes, to one who has never experienced such a technological level, would be considered supernatural, perhaps infernal or divine. What about from the D&D perspective? Greyhawk, the default campaign world, has a deep magical tradition. Somehow, magic came about and people started studying and using it, and using it, but never stopped. Magic was convenient among other things; therefore, magic became common, and when things become common they're expected. Technology in this case meaning scientific breakthroughs occurring since the Industrial Revolution didn't catch on because it was late, expensive, or/and just not as impressive. It didn't have to be that way. Eberron changed that, much to the delight of many. Magic and technology were discovered in tandem leading to interesting developments like airships, and, of course, the Warforged. Eberron technology seems to me at least like another form of magic. [size=3]Your World's Magitech[/size] "Magitech" is a term from Final Fantasy VI by Square for Super Nintendo, originally released as Final Fantasy III in the US, which blended industrial technology with magic, most notably with the Magitech mech walkers that shot fire, ice, and lightning beams. (Terra shot other things, but that's beside the point.) There are notable decisions to make concerning each magic and technology, but these are the most important. By default, my examples use Greyhawk. How and when did magic and technology come to this world? Maybe gods created the first spells and entrusted them to their lackeys for safe keeping until one day a lackey was at a mortal's whim and got magical talent. Likewise, what caused interest in someone to experiment with gears, steam, lasers, etc.? In a homebrew world, this likely means creating the pantheon. How common is it? In Faerun, just about everyone has some magical talent or knows someone locally who does, while in Lord of the Rings, only a select circle wield the power. Because Faerunian magic is common, it's also somewhat cheap to the common peasant compared to, say, Greyhawk. You must also consider how much player characters can access each for how much. Even in Faerun, not every city has a magic shop, but how prevalent is technology? Is it limited solely to hobbyists and dabblers or does it fuel major metropolises? How do people react to peaceful magic or technology use in close physical proximity and just by hearing about incidents miles away? Do people scream in terror at prestidigitation for that means it's a mage and mages are 'evil?' Likewise, if someone builds a steam-powered iron golem to carry stuff or even a simple lighter, will people care? If you heard the chief cleric of Yondalla creates food and water for a banquet in some city a week's journey away, would you be scared? What if some tech guru created and used a combine harvester? What famous beings currently use or have used it? Leomund, Mordenkainen, Rary, and others' names line the PHB's spell section for their exploits, and people know of them even if they've never met. If Twip Carwinkle the gnomish Einstein goes to another country where his steam-powered wagon is produced by laymen and all the rage for nobles and adventurers, how likely is he to be recognized? What happens when he visits a country where his inventions are, at best, barely known? How obvious is its use and its wielders? People know when fireballs hit and probably how spellbooks appear, but can they recognize a pistol and do they think it thunder when a shot fires? Which came first assuming both exist? This is not necessarily a chicken-and-the-egg situation: In most D&D campaign worlds, magic came first and what little technology exists did so after centuries of magical commonplace. If magic was first then expect more mages proportionate to the head start. If both came about around the same time, what allows coexistence? How easily is each negated? Antimagic fields and null psionics zones exist, but aren't everywhere. Is there something preventing technology from working in similar ways? If technology reigned for countless years, how did magic suddenly emerge? Maybe some mage plane shifted to modern Earth and decided that a few mass suggestions would win him the world. Generally, how do casters view scientists and vice versa? This could vary regionally, worldwide, or planarly, but do these groups consider each other more friends, friendly rivals, or enemies? Are nations sworn to technology shrouded in an antimagic field? What can spells and inventions do? Spells are powerful and versatile, and technology is too. Determine how powerful technology is in relation to magic. If one can do just about everything at least as well as the other, there's a problem. Also, consider how much common functionality exists. Amply-leveled Clerics can cross planes and speak with gods, though, on a lesser scale, they can create food and perhaps even minor flames using their powers. Likewise, do technological planeshifters exist? What about lighters and other 'simple' mechanisms? Remember, just because some gadget exists currently in modern Earth doesn't mean it should in a campaign, and even if something is impossible or seemingly so on Earth doesn't automatically nullify it. Is combining them sensical? There's a time for everything, but sometimes meshing magic and technology is like eating sugar cookies with ketchup: It's weird and different, and is pretty certain to offend a victim's taste. -EE
#2 loopy Jan 11, 2005 11:39:53	Thank you for this fabulous article; it spells out some excellent guidelines for using technology in a campaign. The fact that there are no hard game rules makes it twice as excellent. I for one agree that most D&D games are played not as if it were set in the past, but as a more modern world that has magic instead of technology and who has a more enlightened social structure. Here is a link to my campaign world, which is another take on technology in D&D, but more the crumbling "how do we fix this" kind rather than technomajik. I hope it helps for those of you thinking about starting your own campaign world and maybe the author could give me a few pointers. http://www.harvestmooncampaign.com Thanks =A=
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 29, 2005 11:13:51	Some good thoughts. The system I use is if it works in the real world it works in D&D. People know about electricity but magic is more convenient - why make a bad lightbulb when continual flame is available? But the two can coexist. e.g. in the middle of the town is a large clock for all to see, primarily mechanical it however sets its time automatically from the sun and adjusts it speed by create water spells.
#4 quenditar Feb 07, 2005 13:49:48	To me, the advantage of magic over technology is that the field is much better-researched and the effects are much more spectacular, which creates a disincentive to research in other branches of science. Why bother researching better dyes when a magical machine can turn clothing any shade of the rainbow with no expensive materials and fewer workers? This disincentive, on the other hand, goes a long way towards explaining why the world of D&D is what would nowadays be called a Third World country; magic is expensive and the production of magic items doesn't lend itself to mechanization. As long as wizards are rare and magic item components are expensive, there won't be lamps with continual flame in every home or decanters of endless water instead of wells. Technology as we know it is more expensive to research, but once researched significantly cheaper to produce; skilled smiths are going to be easier to find than wizards, and their devices easier to reverse-engineer. With little demand for magic-free devices, though, "technology" as we know it is a curiosity rather than a major field of research. Non-magical science is likely in a medieval state - no organized collaboration, no journals, no "community". Someone who knows the history of science better than I do should elaborate on the differences between medieval scientists and 17th-century scientists. An anti-technological force (magical technology and otherwise) that is very effective in the short term is popular resistance to the loss of jobs caused by more efficient technology. I recall reading (though I can't find the quote) that Montesquieu was strongly against mechanization because it reduced opportunities for employment. Guilds working to preserve their monopoly and rulers seeking to avoid social unrest both have strong incentives to ban any new method of production. Now, there's no reason why magic-powered factory machinery can't exist if both branches of science are advanced enough; that sort of thing is limited by genre conventions. In the end, it all comes down to economics. Well, that's my $0.02.